10 Oct
2015
10 Oct
'15
10:57 a.m.
It's off-topic for the original thread and might confuse the OP of this
thread, so I opened a new one.
If somebody wants to get rid of pulseaudio, without recompiling,
without dummy packages, then it doesn't harm to test if software really
needs pulseaudio.
On Sat, 10 Oct 2015 05:32:43 +0000 (UTC), fred wrote:
De : Ralf, Envoyé le : Samedi 10 octobre 2015 1h39
My Ubuntu install has zero dependencies to pulseaudio. Since I test a
lot with my Arch Linux install I need a dummy package to fulfil hard
dependencies for cinnamon and vice. There are 4 optional dependencies.
Even if I would like to use Cinnamon, I couldn't, because it requires
an absurd fast graphics. Using the "radeon" driver Google Earth is fast
as lightning, but Cinnamon is nearly unresponsive. Vice is an emulator I
just planed to test, but I never did, IOW assumed recompiling without
pulseaudio or just installing a dummy package, as I did, wouldn't work,
I could simply remove this software [1].
If users anyway suspend/kill pulseaudio and dummy packages work too,
then why is it a hard dependency for some software?
Why not using simply software that doesn't require pulseaudio?
I'm using openbox, but at least JWM, Xfce4 and Mate are installed too
and seemingly non of them requires pulseaudio.
If you're using a deb based distro, make a dry-run to test, if there
really is needed software that depends on pulseaudio [2].
IMO Ubuntu and Debian aren't distro for power-users or geeks only.
[1]
[rocketmouse@archlinux lib]$ cd /bin/;du -sh
1.2G .
[rocketmouse@archlinux bin]$ cd /lib/;sudo du -sh
5.2G .
[rocketmouse@archlinux lib]$ sudo pacman -R pulseaudio pulseaudio-alsa
vice cinnamon-settings-daemon cinnamon-control-center cinnamon checking
dependencies... :: fluidsynth optionally requires pulseaudio:
PulseAudio sound support :: phonon-qt4 optionally requires pulseaudio:
PulseAudio support :: phonon-qt5 optionally requires pulseaudio:
PulseAudio support :: speech-dispatcher optionally requires pulseaudio:
PulseAudio support
Packages (6) cinnamon-2.6.13-3 cinnamon-control-center-2.6.0-1
cinnamon-settings-daemon-2.6.3-1 pulseaudio-2013.08.18-1
pulseaudio-alsa-2-3 vice-2.4-7
Total Removed Size: 51.37 MiB
:: Do you want to remove these packages? [Y/n] n
[rocketmouse@archlinux lib]$ grep Driver /etc/X11/xorg.conf | grep -v
"#" Driver "radeon"
[2]
[root@moonstudio ~]# apt-get purge --dry-run pulseaudio
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
The following packages will be REMOVED:
pulseaudio*
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 1 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Purg pulseaudio [2015:09-06-moonstudio]
For me it's easier to just install one sound
server instead of two or
more sound servers. I don't need to comment out something or to add
something to an app. For most use cases it's simpler to use one sound
server.
That's because you have the technical ability to do it Ralf!>> For
most of "simple users" installing distros "as it comes", you just
finish with 'killall pulseaudio' before starting Jack,>> and it
works right :) 
10 Oct
10 Oct
11:10 a.m.
On 10/09/2015 10:57 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
It's off-topic for the original thread and might
confuse the OP of this
thread, so I opened a new one.
If somebody wants to get rid of pulseaudio, without recompiling,
without dummy packages, then it doesn't harm to test if software really
needs pulseaudio.
On Sat, 10 Oct 2015 05:32:43 +0000 (UTC), fred wrote:
I have Aptosid here (Debian Sid) and it doesn't have Pulseaudio anything
on it. JACK2 works. Audio in Firefox works without JACK (but when I'm
working on music, I'm not listening to audio in anything else.
IIRC, KDE4 requires Phonon and PulseAudio?
--
David W. Jones
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://dancingtreefrog.com
De : Ralf, Envoyé le : Samedi 10 octobre 2015
1h39
My Ubuntu install has zero dependencies to pulseaudio. Since I test a
lot with my Arch Linux install I need a dummy package to fulfil hard
dependencies for cinnamon and vice. There are 4 optional dependencies.
Even if I would like to use Cinnamon, I couldn't, because it requires
an absurd fast graphics. Using the "radeon" driver Google Earth is fast
as lightning, but Cinnamon is nearly unresponsive. Vice is an emulator I
just planed to test, but I never did, IOW assumed recompiling without
pulseaudio or just installing a dummy package, as I did, wouldn't work,
I could simply remove this software [1].
If users anyway suspend/kill pulseaudio and dummy packages work too,
then why is it a hard dependency for some software?
Why not using simply software that doesn't require pulseaudio?
I'm using openbox, but at least JWM, Xfce4 and Mate are installed too
and seemingly non of them requires pulseaudio.
If you're using a deb based distro, make a dry-run to test, if there
really is needed software that depends on pulseaudio [2].
IMO Ubuntu and Debian aren't distro for power-users or geeks only.
[1]
[rocketmouse@archlinux lib]$ cd /bin/;du -sh
1.2G .
[rocketmouse@archlinux bin]$ cd /lib/;sudo du -sh
5.2G .
[rocketmouse@archlinux lib]$ sudo pacman -R pulseaudio pulseaudio-alsa
vice cinnamon-settings-daemon cinnamon-control-center cinnamon checking
dependencies... :: fluidsynth optionally requires pulseaudio:
PulseAudio sound support :: phonon-qt4 optionally requires pulseaudio:
PulseAudio support :: phonon-qt5 optionally requires pulseaudio:
PulseAudio support :: speech-dispatcher optionally requires pulseaudio:
PulseAudio support
Packages (6) cinnamon-2.6.13-3 cinnamon-control-center-2.6.0-1
cinnamon-settings-daemon-2.6.3-1 pulseaudio-2013.08.18-1
pulseaudio-alsa-2-3 vice-2.4-7
Total Removed Size: 51.37 MiB
:: Do you want to remove these packages? [Y/n] n
[rocketmouse@archlinux lib]$ grep Driver /etc/X11/xorg.conf | grep -v
"#" Driver "radeon"
[2]
[root@moonstudio ~]# apt-get purge --dry-run pulseaudio
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
The following packages will be REMOVED:
pulseaudio*
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 1 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Purg pulseaudio [2015:09-06-moonstudio] For me it's easier to just install one sound
server instead of two or
more sound servers. I don't need to comment out something or to add
something to an app. For most use cases it's simpler to use one sound
server.
That's because you have the technical ability to do it Ralf!>> For
most of "simple users" installing distros "as it comes", you just
finish with 'killall pulseaudio' before starting Jack,>> and it
works right :)
11:34 a.m.
On Fri, 9 Oct 2015 23:10:15 -1000, david wrote:
On 10/09/2015 10:57 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>:: phonon-qt4 optionally requires pulseaudio: PulseAudio support
>:: phonon-qt5 optionally requires pulseaudio: PulseAudio support
I have Aptosid here (Debian Sid) and it doesn't
have Pulseaudio
anything on it. JACK2 works. Audio in Firefox works without JACK (but
when I'm working on music, I'm not listening to audio in anything else.
IIRC, KDE4 requires Phonon and PulseAudio?
Phonon for Arch has got no hard dependency. Phonon for Debian requires
just libpulse and pulseaudio is suggested by libpulse, but
it's even not recommended.
https://packages.debian.org/sid/libphonon4
https://packages.debian.org/sid/libpulse0
I don't know if there are any other dependency chains for Qt, but I
don't think so, perhaps there's a dependency chain to pulseaudio for
KDE, I don't know.
Why should a sound server necessarily be a hard dependency for a DE?
Some people are deafothers only want the bell (beep).
If I don't make music, most of the times I only use printf "\a", if I
listen to an audio stream, then I most of the times use plain ALSA, I
even don't launch jackd.
If somebody needs pulseaudio, it's ok for me, we have different needs,
but I can't stand the argumentation that users are quasi forced to use
pulseaudio or to comment out this and that, respl. to suspend/kill
pulseaudio. It's nonsense, pulseaudio can be removed and if not, then
file a bug against a package that forces to install pulseaudio. There
might be a few packages that require pulseaudio, but for most it should
be an optional dependency.
Regards,
Ralf
12 Oct
12 Oct
6:33 p.m.
On 10/10/2015 10:57 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
If somebody wants to get rid of pulseaudio, without
recompiling,
without dummy packages, then it doesn't harm to test if software really
needs pulseaudio.
And why do you think so little packages depend on PulseAudio?
Jeremy
7:52 p.m.
On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 18:33:19 +0200, Jeremy Jongepier wrote:
On 10/10/2015 10:57 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ pacman -Si |grep "Name :"|wc -l
7947
[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ pacman -Si |grep "Depends On :"|grep
pulseaudio|wc -l
16
[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ echo $((7947 - 16))
7931
It usually are exceptions e.g. GNOME and Cinnamon that by default have
absurd hard dependencies to pulseaudio, but e.g. not Mate, Xfce4, Openbox,
JWM ...
There wouldn't be the need to rebuild and configure with "--disable-pulse",
assumed it
still should be provided, just making pulseaudio an optional dependency
would solve what's an issue for some users.
[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ pacman -Si gnome-settings-daemon|grep "Depends On
:"|grep pulseaudio
Depends On : dconf gnome-desktop gsettings-desktop-schemas libcanberra-pulse
libnotify libsystemd libwacom pulseaudio pulseaudio-alsa upower librsvg libgweather
geocode-glib geoclue2 nss libgudev
[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ pacman -Si cinnamon-settings-daemon|grep "Depends On
:"|grep pulseaudio
Depends On : cinnamon-desktop libibus libcanberra-pulse librsvg nss
pulseaudio-alsa upower libnotify libgnomekbd libwacom libgudev
[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ pacman -Si mate-settings-daemon|grep "Depends On
:"|grep pulseaudio
[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ pacman -Si pulseaudio-alsa|grep "Depends On
:"|grep pulseaudio
Depends On : alsa-plugins>=1.0.25 pulseaudio
If somebody wants to get rid of pulseaudio,
without recompiling,
without dummy packages, then it doesn't harm to test if software
really needs pulseaudio.
And why do you think so little packages depend on PulseAudio?
8:04 p.m.
On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 19:52:05 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 18:33:19 +0200, Jeremy Jongepier
wrote:
Sure, there are dependency chains, but AFAIK only for some packages
that belong to a minority of a few bloated desktop environments, so
reality is close to the just 16 packages out of 7947 packages. Other
distros split those 7947 packages by the factor of 8 and more packages,
so just one of that 8 packages could have a hard dependency to
pulseaudio, IOW the ratio for e.g. Debian and Ubuntu would be much
higher.
On 10/10/2015 10:57 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ pacman -Si |grep "Name :"|wc -l
7947
[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ pacman -Si |grep "Depends On :"|grep
pulseaudio|wc -l 16
[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ echo $((7947 - 16))
7931 If somebody wants to get rid of pulseaudio,
without recompiling,
without dummy packages, then it doesn't harm to test if software
really needs pulseaudio.
And why do you think so little packages depend on PulseAudio?
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