On Monday 14 June 2010 18:37:40 Jonathan Gazeley wrote: Behringer might have one or two products that are good and kind of an industry standard. Other then that you get what you pay for. And not only their price is cheap... Most of their products are just copies of good devices which they 'improved' by crippling usage and audio properties. I once saw an ebay auction for a cutting wheel (working) with an attached Behringer component (lights still working) :-) I am very satiesfied with my Studio Projects Condensor Pair (which Behringer copied). But after using a pair of large AKGs, I dream about them. Have fun, Arnold

On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 07:24:33PM +0200, Arnold Krille wrote: That's a fairly accurate description. A good example is the ADA8000 8-ch AD/DA with mic preamps. Behringer is often said to be noisy (not without reason). But at _full gain_ the ADA8000 has a _very_ good noise figure, better than some more expensive products. Problem is that as soon as you turn the gain down this is completely lost - a result of the way the gain control circuit works. It would have been fairly simple to improve on this without extra cost. Also, the gain controls have mechanical detents, and the first click below max can be anything between -3 and -12 dB. The line input is just an attenuator feeding the mic inputs, so you get the same problems there. I converted two of them to fixed gain (for multichannel sonar use) by physically removing the gain pots and replacing them with two fixed resistors, giving exactly -6dB below max gain. They perform well like that. Unless you start to measure mains harmonics, which increase dramatically going from ch 1 to ch 8 (to the right, were the power supply is). The power supplies are another story, I've seen some of them produce smoke, and unless you provide ample space for passive cooling they will burn out. Ciao, -- FA O tu, che porte, correndo si ? E guerra e morte !

On 15/06/10 15:19, Chris Edwards wrote: That's exactly my point about Behringer kit. I'm not a professional, I don't subject my stuff to rough treatment or extreme uses. I just handle it carefully and occasionally record small bands, orchestras or choirs. It comes at a bargain price if you have fairly reasonable expectations. -- ---------------------------- Jonathan Gazeley Systems Support Specialist ResNet | Wireless & VPN Team Information Services University of Bristol ----------------------------

On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 4:54 PM, <fons(a)kokkinizita.net> wrote: I haven't tried one of these from LinearX, but the specs on this electret condenser look really nice (especially for someone looking for a measurement mic on a budget) http://www.linearx.com/products/microphones/m31/M31_3.htm

On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 4:39 AM, Monty Montgomery <xiphmont(a)gmail.com> wrote: I have to agree on the noise level of the ECM8000 but also have to mention how much I now like Omni mics, i have a pair and leave them at the end of the room and it just sounds good! :) Minimum time spent fiddling with mics and other stuff and max time spent with my guitars. :) I use the ECM8000's much more often than my collection of nice condensers now. Loki

On 06/19/2010 09:05 PM, Jonathan Gazeley wrote: if you're recording in that church frequently, see if they're willing shell out the money for a pair of decent omnis and maybe you can hang them (semi-)permanently, where they don't show too badly or present tripping hazards. often, high microphone positions sound nicer for stereo reproduction, too. as i said, try hanging them. a 45-60cm mike bar is cheap and provides a very nice image. the cables themselves can deal with the weight (but don't rely on the xlr locks alone - tie the cables to the bar for additional safety), and then you can do the positioning with one or two stretches of fishing line. interesting! having listened to the xy samples, i'd say there is some room for improvement with the microphones :) i hear the following: * direct sound ok'ish but a little unpleasant in the mid range and lack of "air", i.e. treble reproduction. * a bit too dry for my taste * lack of low-end - the pedal is more or less missing * unpleasant ambience reproduction - frequently a problem because the pickup pattern depends on frequency (this is inevitable, but worse on cheap mikes) - this means anything coming in off-axis will be severely colored. * either the organ is intoned quite harshly, or there is slight distortion at the microphone (quick shot, i may be wrong, only listened once and no measurements) if you can rent or borrow two decent omni condensers, i think you'll find the results very rewarding. if you have to stick with your cardioids, try moving them a little more to the back, so that you pick up more reverb and less direct sound - i think this will make the sound a lot more pleasant and elegant. btw, here's an interesting experiment i did a few months ago with a røde nt5 (a condenser cardioid), but it should work with other such mikes too: make a recording, then use several layers of insulating tape (pulled tight) to block the rear openings on the capsule. (these openings are what makes the mikrophone directional, because they let sound in at the rear but with a slightly longer way, so that it just about cancels out unwanted directions.) you have now turned your cardioid mike into an omni. make the same recording again, and compare: the low end reproduction, and the ratio of direct sound to reverb. (of course, the sound will be a little weird, because it's not a perfect omni, but an interesting experiment nonetheless.) i got this idea when i had to capture an african drum and was constantly missing the fundamental. with no omnis at hand, i improvised one. what's worse, i even shoehorned this bastard omni into a pressure boundary microphone by taping it onto a mousepad and putting it on the floor. sure, there was coloration, but for that particular drum, it worked. best, jörn

On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 11:34:50PM +0200, Arnold Krille wrote: Except that for a PZM you need a hard surface. Ciao, -- FA O tu, che porte, correndo si ? E guerra e morte !

On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 07:43:46PM +0200, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote: I'm pretty sure it worked, and it's quite a creative way to solve a practical problem. I did the same on one occasion where the organiser of a theatre production didn't want to have any mics on stage or close to it - just gaffa-taped four KM84's to the walls. It worked well (but not in mono :-). Greetings from an Italy in shock. -- FA O tu, che porte, correndo si ? E guerra e morte !

On 06/23/2010 11:26 PM, fons(a)kokkinizita.net wrote: Yes - these are Behringer XM1800 dynamic mics, presumably for PA use. I shan't be using them on the organ again. (But it was worth a try!) This organ is in Bristol, UK and has a collection of stops typical of an English organ of its size - lots of flutes, hardly any reeds, hardly any mixtures. I think it's about a hundred years old. The console has been restored/updated and the pneumatic mechanism has been replaced with electric, but the ranks of pipes are the same. You are correct that some maintenance is required. One or two of the stops are badly out of tune and are temporarily out of use. Some of the other stops are slightly out of tune, and still used. There are several air leaks (but fortunately the poor HF response of the mics has cut that out ;) It's just a case of money! I personally think the registration choice is suitable in all of these recordings, but of course this is a matter of opinion. The organist playing here is an experienced professional. This church has a smaller organ than he is used to - he previously was the resident organist at Crediton[1] and has also played at cathedrals across Europe. I consider myself fortunate to work with someone so knowledgeable, talented and experienced. I realise we are now well and truly OT :) [1] http://www.holycrosschoir.com/theorgan.html Thanks too for your advice. How important is mono compatibility, given that these recordings are burnt to CD as stereo, and handed out to people who listen to them on their stereos at home? Cheers, Jonathan

On 06/24/10 22:08, Arnold Krille wrote: Or mobile devices with monaural output, like some small notebooks. Flo -- Machines can do the work, so people have time to think. public key DA43FEF4 x-hkp://wwwkeys.eu.pgp.net

Arnold Krille wrote: Hmm, I don't have a phone that plays music, but my Palm PDA and my iPod both output stereo when using headphones. ;-) -- David gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community

On 06/24/2010 12:39 AM, Jonathan Gazeley wrote: yes. be careful with AB, though: you *must* pan them hard left/right (unless they are really far apart), otherwise you'll get comb filtering. (you get it anyway, but only in the listener's living room, which is not as bad as on your mixer bus!) if you want to "balance" AB pairs, work with the levels only, not the panners. with XY, you can pan to your heart's content :) do you have a chance to have the choir arranged in a semicircle? that will make the coverage more even. in any case, get that microphone up up up. (reduces the effective distance differences from front to back row, and prevents occlusion of the rear singers.)