24 Feb
2012
24 Feb
'12
8:31 p.m.
I didn't receive a digest until now, so I'll reply to
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/pipermail/linux-audio-user/2012-February/083601…
We could use the vesa driver, I didn't experienced the vesa driver
neither bad for audio, nor bad for MIDI hardcore-real-time, but it's odd
regarding to the supported resolutions ;), hence I didn't tested it
much.
On my machine, an ASUS M2A-VM HDMI with an integrated ATI Radeon
X1250-based graphics, Athlon dual-core 2.1GHz, I unmounted the HDMI
thingy and mounted a NVIDIA GeForce 7200GS. Using the nv driver I get
the perfect Linux MIDI DAW. Using the nouveau driver I can use it around
two minutes with a slow motion performance for the DE and then I need to
push the reset button, since everything is frozen. I needed to replace
the ATI with the NVIDI, because the integrated ATI can't be used with 3D
acceleration. I don't need 3D acceleration for the kernel-rt, but I wish
to have it supported for a "regular" kernel, since I wish to be able to
google the earth, if I wish to do, to produce 3D animations, if I wish
to do etc.. There's no 3.2.0-rt on my machine, latest kernel I use is
3.0.x.
I didn't decide to use NVIDIA. When I bought my hardware I didn't have
the money to buy Intel, I decided to get ATI, since I used NVIDIA
before. Much of my machine is from bulk garbage.
Here NVIDI is a less PITA than ATI is.
A rose is a rose is a rose. Or: Experimental is experimental is
experimental.
It shouldn't be the policy to drop something that works and replace it
with something that currently is "experimental".
The policy shouldn't be Appel"oid", IOW there should be some
"elbowroom"
for the used hardware.
When I (we) get my (our) graphics it (they) works OOTB with Linux DAWs!
:p²
Ralfi
24 Feb
24 Feb
9:30 p.m.
New subject: Linux 3.2.0-rt Kernels on Debian Repos!
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/pipermail/linux-audio-user/2012-February/083605…
"I do. They should just keep up the NV drivers that DO work until the
Nouveau drivers also work AND SUPPORT THE SAME HARDWARE, instead of
dropping NV completely."
Full ACK!
Isn't the Nouveau driver marked as "experimental"?
AFAIK it is.
What other software do we use for vanilla installs that has got the
status of "experimental"?
I'm not against "Nouveau". I welcome it. But since it is AFAIK, marked
as "experimental" and many users who didn't run into trouble using the
FLOSS nv driver get issues since it is dropped ... pardon my English is
disgusting ... replacing some FLOSS software that works with some
experimental that doesn't work for MANY users, is grotesque.
:(
Ralf
9:45 p.m.
New subject: OT: Linux 3.2.0-rt Kernels on Debian Repos!
A paradox: We call it AMD64, but expect Intel to work with Linux,
instead of AMD :p.
25 Feb
25 Feb
7:19 a.m.
New subject: OT: Linux 3.2.0-rt Kernels on Debian Repos!
On 02/24/2012 10:45 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
A paradox: We call it AMD64, but expect Intel to work
with Linux,
instead of AMD :p.
Well, the difference between AMD and Intel video is that Intel video
driver folk didn't decide to replace their entire set of working drivers
with a new set and architecture that doesn't work reliably. And the
Debian Community didn't decide to stop distributing the drivers that
work. (I've HEARD that the reason they did it is to add 3D support.
Sounds to me like they're aiming at video gamers, not ordinary people.)
But then pro audio is a microscopic sliver of Linux applications, so who
listens to those people, anyway?
--
David
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
24 Feb
24 Feb
10 p.m.
New subject: Linux 3.2.0-rt Kernels on Debian Repos!
Am Freitag, den 24.02.2012, 21:30 +0100 schrieb Ralf Mardorf:
"I do. They should just keep up the NV drivers
that DO work until the
Nouveau drivers also work AND SUPPORT THE SAME HARDWARE, instead of
dropping NV completely."
Full ACK!
Isn't the Nouveau driver marked as "experimental"?
AFAIK it is.
From the view of debian, sid isn't a distro, it is
the development base
for the next stable release, so, sid is experimental in it
self.
The use of debian/sid isn't supported by debian.
25 Feb
25 Feb
6:20 a.m.
New subject: Linux 3.2.0-rt Kernels on Debian Repos!
On Fri, 2012-02-24 at 22:00 +0100, hermann wrote:
Am Freitag, den 24.02.2012, 21:30 +0100 schrieb Ralf
Mardorf:
For testing the driver already is dropped and the Debian derivatives
Mint Lisa and Ubuntu Studio Oneiric support the Nouveau driver only. I
suspect that openDAW also doesn't ship with the nv driver.
I won't recommend installing something outdated like Debian stable.
I also don't like to recommend the usage of Arch Linux and similar
distros, since we can't expect that everybody using Linux, is willing to
spend hours to install a DAW.
It's a shame that the usage of the good Linux audio software can't be
used by every musician when installing a major distro, just because a
stable graphics driver is dropped, pulseaudio cause issues and a
kernel-rt often has to be compiled by the user. Even experienced Linux
audio users are disunited about the kernel-rt's config.
If Linux audio software like Ardour and Qtractor would be available for
Windows and assumed Windows would fulfill my needs regarding to hard
real-time, I would install it by now. I don't like this Linux policy
that is hostile to audio. We are living in the media age, instead of
switching to flashy crap like GNOME3 and Unity, integration of the Linux
pro-audio software should be done.
For what reason the nv driver is dropped right now?
- Ralf
"I do. They should just keep up the NV
drivers that DO work until the
Nouveau drivers also work AND SUPPORT THE SAME HARDWARE, instead of
dropping NV completely."
Full ACK!
Isn't the Nouveau driver marked as "experimental"?
AFAIK it is.
From the view of debian, sid isn't a distro, it is the development base
for the next stable release, so, sid is experimental in it self.
The use of debian/sid isn't supported by debian.
7:10 a.m.
New subject: Linux 3.2.0-rt Kernels on Debian Repos!
Am Samstag, den 25.02.2012, 06:19 +0100 schrieb Ralf Mardorf:
For what reason the nv driver is dropped right now?
- Ralf
The answer is simpler the you suspect:
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=612189
7:18 a.m.
New subject: Linux 3.2.0-rt Kernels on Debian Repos!
On Sat, 2012-02-25 at 07:10 +0100, hermann wrote:
Am Samstag, den 25.02.2012, 06:19 +0100 schrieb Ralf
Mardorf:
Good morning Hermann :)
I started with Debian stable, kept the nv driver, but upgraded to
testing for anything else and got tons of issues. I'm not sure if all
issues are related to an outdated X.
Will using nv from git protect against issues with current X?
Regards,
Ralf
For what reason the nv driver is dropped right
now?
- Ralf
The answer is simpler the you suspect:
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=612189
7:21 a.m.
New subject: Linux 3.2.0-rt Kernels on Debian Repos!
On Sat, 2012-02-25 at 07:17 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
On Sat, 2012-02-25 at 07:10 +0100, hermann wrote:
PS: I already know that it isn't maintained anymore, but it's still a
stable driver. I don't get any issues with an upgraded Arch Linux using
the nv driver.
Am Samstag, den 25.02.2012, 06:19 +0100 schrieb
Ralf Mardorf:
Good morning Hermann :)
I started with Debian stable, kept the nv driver, but upgraded to
testing for anything else and got tons of issues. I'm not sure if all
issues are related to an outdated X.
Will using nv from git protect against issues with current X?
Regards,
Ralf For what reason the nv driver is dropped right
now?
- Ralf
The answer is simpler the you suspect:
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=612189
8:04 a.m.
New subject: Linux 3.2.0-rt Kernels on Debian Repos!
Am Samstag, den 25.02.2012, 07:17 +0100 schrieb Ralf Mardorf:
On Sat, 2012-02-25 at 07:10 +0100, hermann wrote:
Morning Ralf
I can't say exactly, but I guess yes. When you select the corresponding
nv-driver version and build it by your own, I guess that will work.
I often use the debian folder from a original package to build a updated
package with.
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/driver/xf86-video-nv/
http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=pkg-xorg/attic/driver/xserver-xorg-vide…
Am Samstag, den 25.02.2012, 06:19 +0100 schrieb
Ralf Mardorf:
Good morning Hermann :)
I started with Debian stable, kept the nv driver, but upgraded to
testing for anything else and got tons of issues. I'm not sure if all
issues are related to an outdated X.
Will using nv from git protect against issues with current X?
Regards,
Ralf
For what reason the nv driver is dropped right
now?
- Ralf
The answer is simpler the you suspect:
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=612189
12:33 p.m.
New subject: Linux 3.2.0-rt Kernels on Debian Repos!
On Sat, 2012-02-25 at 08:04 +0100, hermann wrote:
Am Samstag, den 25.02.2012, 07:17 +0100 schrieb Ralf
Mardorf:
Thanks, I'll test it ASAP. - Ralf
On Sat, 2012-02-25 at 07:10 +0100, hermann
wrote:
Morning Ralf
I can't say exactly, but I guess yes. When you select the corresponding
nv-driver version and build it by your own, I guess that will work.
I often use the debian folder from a original package to build a updated
package with.
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/driver/xf86-video-nv/
http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=pkg-xorg/attic/driver/xserver-xorg-vide…
Am Samstag, den 25.02.2012, 06:19 +0100 schrieb
Ralf Mardorf:
Good morning Hermann :)
I started with Debian stable, kept the nv driver, but upgraded to
testing for anything else and got tons of issues. I'm not sure if all
issues are related to an outdated X.
Will using nv from git protect against issues with current X?
Regards,
Ralf
For what reason the nv driver is dropped right
now?
- Ralf
The answer is simpler the you suspect:
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=612189
7:22 a.m.
New subject: Linux 3.2.0-rt Kernels on Debian Repos!
On 02/24/2012 08:10 PM, hermann wrote:
Am Samstag, den 25.02.2012, 06:19 +0100 schrieb Ralf
Mardorf:
Simply put it this way: Something that doesn't get maintained (probably
because the egos of the developers aren't stroked so much doing
maintenance than developing something new) STILL SHOULDN'T BE REMOVED
WHEN IT'S THE ONLY OPTION THAT WORKS.
Bah.
--
David
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
For what reason the nv driver is dropped right
now?
- Ralf
The answer is simpler the you suspect:
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=612189
8:15 a.m.
New subject: Linux 3.2.0-rt Kernels on Debian Repos!
Am Freitag, den 24.02.2012, 20:22 -1000 schrieb david:
On 02/24/2012 08:10 PM, hermann wrote:
That's the wrong conclusion. Maybe it strikes you hard, I understand
that, but don't forget that all work in debian is done for free, every
one do what he think is necessary.
Also note please that nor the nv driver or the nouveau driver are
developed by debian, they are part of Xorg/Xf86, so also your conclusion
over the egos of the debian "workers" is wrong.
Again, if you wish to see this package back in debian, offer your work
for free and just do it. or, try to find someone how do it for you.
Or select a distribution, witch offer this package to you.
A un-maintained package can't be a part of the distribution. It makes no
mater if it is the only working solution (for you), or not.
greets
hermann
Am Samstag, den 25.02.2012, 06:19 +0100 schrieb
Ralf Mardorf:
Simply put it this way: Something that doesn't get maintained (probably
because the egos of the developers aren't stroked so much doing
maintenance than developing something new) STILL SHOULDN'T BE REMOVED
WHEN IT'S THE ONLY OPTION THAT WORKS.
Bah.
For what reason the nv driver is dropped right
now?
- Ralf
The answer is simpler the you suspect:
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=612189
9:18 a.m.
New subject: Linux 3.2.0-rt Kernels on Debian Repos!
On 02/24/2012 09:15 PM, hermann wrote:
Am Freitag, den 24.02.2012, 20:22 -1000 schrieb
david:
Yah, that's the big weakness of FLOSS: only doing what some individual
might think is necessary (programmer scratching his or her own itches).
I think FLOSS audio is bitten by that problem a lot.
On 02/24/2012 08:10 PM, hermann wrote:
That's the wrong conclusion. Maybe it strikes you hard, I understand
that, but don't forget that all work in debian is done for free, every
one do what he think is necessary. Am Samstag, den 25.02.2012, 06:19 +0100 schrieb
Ralf Mardorf:
Simply put it this way: Something that doesn't get maintained (probably
because the egos of the developers aren't stroked so much doing
maintenance than developing something new) STILL SHOULDN'T BE REMOVED
WHEN IT'S THE ONLY OPTION THAT WORKS.
Bah. For what reason the nv driver is dropped right
now?
- Ralf
The answer is simpler the you suspect:
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=612189 Also note please that nor the nv driver or the nouveau
driver are
developed by debian, they are part of Xorg/Xf86, so also your conclusion
over the egos of the debian "workers" is wrong.
Same egotism problem, just different organization.
Again, if you wish to see this package back in debian,
offer your work
for free and just do it. or, try to find someone how do it for you.
Or select a distribution, witch offer this package to you.
A un-maintained package can't be a part of the distribution. It makes no
mater if it is the only working solution (for you), or not.
What about packages that simply keep on working, require no maintenance,
etc? Do they get booted because they WORK without any changes? Like the
rhyme dictionary package did?
--
David
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
9:41 a.m.
New subject: Linux 3.2.0-rt Kernels on Debian Repos!
Am Freitag, den 24.02.2012, 22:18 -1000 schrieb david:
Isn't it egoism from you, to try to force people to do what "you" want?
And try that by blame them ? I guess this way wouldn't work.
Sorry, I didn't understand this question, there is no rhyme dictionary
package in debian/sid. It is un-maintained, so it is dropped. Every
package in unstable need work to be done, at least every time when a
library witch is used by the package, is changed.
greets
hermann
On 02/24/2012 09:15 PM, hermann wrote:
what did you suspect here ?
Users are always welcome to give feedback, suggestions, or at least,
become a part of the project. That is what FLOSS is about. FLOSS isn't
about to present you a OS on a silver tablet, FLOSS will always force
you to make it work. It is community based. If you didn't help, the
community get a bit smaller, and a piece of work fail.
what did you think why a developer develop Free Open Software ?
And what did you think why a debian maintainer do what he do ?
Do you believe they do it to suite there ego's ?
Am Freitag, den 24.02.2012, 20:22 -1000 schrieb
david:
Yah, that's the big weakness of FLOSS: only doing what some individual
might think is necessary (programmer scratching his or her own itches).
I think FLOSS audio is bitten by that problem a lot. On 02/24/2012 08:10 PM, hermann wrote:
That's the wrong conclusion. Maybe it strikes you hard, I understand
that, but don't forget that all work in debian is done for free, every
one do what he think is necessary. Am Samstag, den 25.02.2012, 06:19 +0100 schrieb
Ralf Mardorf:
> For what reason the nv driver is dropped right now?
>
> - Ralf
The answer is simpler the you suspect:
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=612189
Simply put it this way: Something that doesn't get maintained (probably
because the egos of the developers aren't stroked so much doing
maintenance than developing something new) STILL SHOULDN'T BE REMOVED
WHEN IT'S THE ONLY OPTION THAT WORKS.
Bah. Also note please that nor the nv driver or the
nouveau driver are
developed by debian, they are part of Xorg/Xf86, so also your conclusion
over the egos of the debian "workers" is wrong.
Same egotism problem, just different organization. Again, if you wish to see this package back in
debian, offer your work
for free and just do it. or, try to find someone how do it for you.
Or select a distribution, witch offer this package to you.
A un-maintained package can't be a part of the distribution. It makes no
mater if it is the only working solution (for you), or not.
What about packages that simply keep on working, require no maintenance,
etc? Do they get booted because they WORK without any changes? Like the
rhyme dictionary package did?
7:25 a.m.
New subject: Linux 3.2.0-rt Kernels on Debian Repos!
On 02/24/2012 08:10 PM, hermann wrote:
Am Samstag, den 25.02.2012, 06:19 +0100 schrieb Ralf
Mardorf:
The page says it is available in "/attic". How does one access this to
get the no-longer-maintained-but-only-one-that-works package?
--
David
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
For what reason the nv driver is dropped right
now?
- Ralf
The answer is simpler the you suspect:
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=612189
7:11 a.m.
New subject: Linux 3.2.0-rt Kernels on Debian Repos!
On 02/24/2012 09:31 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
I didn't receive a digest until now, so I'll
reply to
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/pipermail/linux-audio-user/2012-February/083601…
We could use the vesa driver, I didn't experienced the vesa driver
neither bad for audio, nor bad for MIDI hardcore-real-time, but it's odd
regarding to the supported resolutions ;), hence I didn't tested it
much.
I can use the VESA driver - if I want to see my 1920x1080 LED display
running at 1024x768. Too many apps these days seem to assume you've got
higher resolution than that and become unusable at 1024x768.
On my machine, an ASUS M2A-VM HDMI with an integrated
ATI Radeon
X1250-based graphics,
I've never heard good things about ATI video and Linux.
Athlon dual-core 2.1GHz, I unmounted the HDMI
thingy and mounted a NVIDIA GeForce 7200GS. Using the nv driver I get
the perfect Linux MIDI DAW. Using the nouveau driver I can use it around
two minutes with a slow motion performance for the DE and then I need to
push the reset button, since everything is frozen. I needed to replace
the ATI with the NVIDI, because the integrated ATI can't be used with 3D
acceleration. I don't need 3D acceleration for the kernel-rt, but I wish
to have it supported for a "regular" kernel, since I wish to be able to
google the earth, if I wish to do, to produce 3D animations, if I wish
to do etc.. There's no 3.2.0-rt on my machine, latest kernel I use is
3.0.x.
I didn't decide to use NVIDIA. When I bought my hardware I didn't have
the money to buy Intel, I decided to get ATI, since I used NVIDIA
before. Much of my machine is from bulk garbage.
Here NVIDI is a less PITA than ATI is.
A rose is a rose is a rose. Or: Experimental is experimental is
experimental.
It shouldn't be the policy to drop something that works and replace it
with something that currently is "experimental".
The policy shouldn't be Appel"oid", IOW there should be some
"elbowroom"
for the used hardware.
When I (we) get my (our) graphics it (they) works OOTB with Linux DAWs!
--
David
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
4659
days inactive
4660
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
16 comments
3 participants
participants (3)
-
david -
hermann -
Ralf Mardorf