10 Nov
2003
10 Nov
'03
2:40 p.m.
Hello,
thanks THAC i have managed to make jack run smooth enough to take a step
beyond mere experimenting with audio on Linux.
I got muse 0.6 , ams, ZynaddSubFX and ardour Beta running ok but i miss
a Sampler/Drummachine, since i fail to compile hydrogene i would be very
thankfull for any hint towards Mandrake 9.1 - RPMs containing some
Softsampler / Drumbox that can be jacked.
best regards
10 Nov
10 Nov
4:01 p.m.
On Sunday 16 November 2003 05:43 am, Hartmut Z Noack wrote:
Hello,
thanks THAC i have managed to make jack run smooth enough to take a step
beyond mere experimenting with audio on Linux.
I got muse 0.6 , ams, ZynaddSubFX and ardour Beta running ok but i miss
a Sampler/Drummachine, since i fail to compile hydrogene i would be very
thankfull for any hint towards Mandrake 9.1 - RPMs containing some
Softsampler / Drumbox that can be jacked.
Try these:
http://www.rpmfind.net//linux/RPM/mandrake/9.2/contrib/i586/libhydrogen0-0.…
http://www.rpmfind.net//linux/RPM/mandrake/9.2/contrib/i586/hydrogen-0.8.0-…
|)
|)enji
4:11 p.m.
On Sun, Nov 16, 2003 at 12:43:03PM +0100, Hartmut Z Noack wrote:
Hello,
thanks THAC i have managed to make jack run smooth enough to take a step
beyond mere experimenting with audio on Linux.
I got muse 0.6 , ams, ZynaddSubFX and ardour Beta running ok but i miss
a Sampler/Drummachine, since i fail to compile hydrogene i would be very
thankfull for any hint towards Mandrake 9.1 - RPMs containing some
Softsampler / Drumbox that can be jacked.
I'd suggest keep trying with hydrogen. It's very nice and easy to use.
I'm using hydrogen and jack both from CVS, both from a few weeks ago
(jackd version 0.83.5, hydrogen version 0.8.1beta4) and they work great.
one complaint with hydrogen - the drum kits available all seem to
be 44.1khz samples, and it doesn't resample them if you run jackd at
48khz so the drum pitches all seem a bit too high.
--
Paul Winkler
http://www.slinkp.com
Look! Up in the sky! It's PIRATE X!
(random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com)
4:45 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] any softsampler or drummachines for jackit out there
On Mon, 10 Nov 2003, Paul Winkler wrote:
On Sun, Nov 16, 2003 at 12:43:03PM +0100, Hartmut Z
Noack wrote:
Eventually SWAMI/FluidSynth and any MIDI sequencer will be usable.
Unfortunately I couldn't get good performance out of SWAMI with more than
4 voices. It may be my configuration though. Anyone else here using SWAMI?
-lee
Hello,
thanks THAC i have managed to make jack run smooth enough to take a step
beyond mere experimenting with audio on Linux.
I got muse 0.6 , ams, ZynaddSubFX and ardour Beta running ok but i miss
a Sampler/Drummachine, since i fail to compile hydrogene i would be very
thankfull for any hint towards Mandrake 9.1 - RPMs containing some
Softsampler / Drumbox that can be jacked.
I'd suggest keep trying with hydrogen. It's very nice and easy to use.
I'm using hydrogen and jack both from CVS, both from a few weeks ago
(jackd version 0.83.5, hydrogen version 0.8.1beta4) and they work great.
one complaint with hydrogen - the drum kits available all seem to
be 44.1khz samples, and it doesn't resample them if you run jackd at
48khz so the drum pitches all seem a bit too high. 
5:02 p.m.
måndagen den 10 november 2003 21.37 skrev lee(a)fallingforward.net:
On Mon, 10 Nov 2003, Paul Winkler wrote:
I've used the internal fluidsynth with MusE for a while and it performs pretty
well when using MusE with alsa output. Unfortunately using MusE with jack
doesn't really work very well right now, but it will probably do that in the
future. Using MusE with jack, MusE builtin fluidsynth for drums (since a
couple of drumtracks doesn't take too much power), and ZynAdd for the rest
seems like the best buy (not to say a pretty good buy, too!) right now for
me.
/Mathias
On Sun, Nov 16, 2003 at 12:43:03PM +0100, Hartmut
Z Noack wrote:
Eventually SWAMI/FluidSynth and any MIDI sequencer will be usable.
Unfortunately I couldn't get good performance out of SWAMI with more than
4 voices. It may be my configuration though. Anyone else here using SWAMI?
-lee
5:13 p.m.
I've used the internal fluidsynth with MusE for a
while and it performs
pretty well when using MusE with alsa output. Unfortunately using MusE with
jack doesn't really work very well right now, but it will probably do that
in the future.
Correcting myself: MusE works quite well with Jack right now in many cases,
but MusE:s internal synths and Jack doesn't seem like the best combination.
MusE and fluidsynth works very well (at least for me) when using MusE with
alsa output, but then it's kind of difficult to use other Jack-apps like
ZynAdd...
/Mathias
7:33 p.m.
Hallo,
Mathias Lundgren hat gesagt: // Mathias Lundgren wrote:
I've used the internal fluidsynth with MusE for a
while and it performs pretty
well when using MusE with alsa output. Unfortunately using MusE with jack
doesn't really work very well right now, but it will probably do that in the
future.
I use my own Pd tools for drums. This is very flexible for my work
style. I seperated several sequencer GUIs from the sound generation.
For sequencing drums I often use my sseq-objects available here:
http://footils.org/cms/?show_article=14
For the drum sounds itself I also use several approaches. One is my Pd
drum "angriff" (http://footils.org/cms/?show_article=13 or extended
here http://mentalfloss.ca/sintheta/html/downloads.html) the other
also involves fluidsynth, but by using the fluid~ external for Pd,
which happens to be also available on my site ;) Maybe these are also
an option, but they require a bit learning of Pd.
ciao
--
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org__
5:14 p.m.
On Monday 10 November 2003 02:10 pm, Paul Winkler wrote:
I'd suggest keep trying with hydrogen. It's
very nice and easy to use.
I'm using hydrogen and jack both from CVS, both from a few weeks ago
(jackd version 0.83.5, hydrogen version 0.8.1beta4) and they work great.
I have to agree - I'm a big fan of hydrogen. The CVS version is also
substantially better than the rpms, IMHO. Amongst other things, it gives you
separate jack outputs for each drum channel, and support for 32 voices
instead of 16 (also, you could now support any number of voices by changing a
#define in one line of code, and rebuilding).
one complaint with hydrogen - the drum kits available
all seem to
be 44.1khz samples, and it doesn't resample them if you run jackd at
48khz so the drum pitches all seem a bit too high.
Pitch-shifting abilities were recently introduced into the audio engine.
Sample rate awareness can't be far behind....
|)
|)enji
8:21 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] any softsampler or drummachines for jackit out there
An often overlooked sample player is simsam. I really wish this thing
were developed further, it's neat and fills a void in linux audio.
http://simsam.sourceforge.net/
-ry
11 Nov
11 Nov
2:52 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] any softsampler or drummachines for jackit out there
Am Die, 2003-11-11 um 01.20 schrieb Ryan:
An often overlooked sample player is simsam. I really
wish this thing
were developed further, it's neat and fills a void in linux audio.
http://simsam.sourceforge.net/
-ry
thanks for the hint, i'll try that
ps.: thank you for name all the deps directly on the projects page, not
everyone minds that...
2:58 p.m.
On Monday 10 November 2003 21:10, Paul Winkler wrote:
I'd suggest keep trying with hydrogen. It's
very nice and easy to use.
I'm using hydrogen and jack both from CVS, both from a few weeks ago
(jackd version 0.83.5, hydrogen version 0.8.1beta4) and they work great.
:)
one complaint with hydrogen - the drum kits available all seem to
be 44.1khz samples, and it doesn't resample them if you run jackd at
48khz so the drum pitches all seem a bit too high.
Now added in my (huge) ToDoList.. :)
Ciao
--
Alessandro <Comix> Cominu
http://hydrogen.sf.net
e-mail: comix(a)despammed.com
Icq: 116354077
Linux User # 203765
[...Codito Ergo Sum...]
2:21 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] any softsampler or drummachines for jackit out there
At 16 Nov 2003 12:43:03 +0100,
Hartmut Z Noack wrote:
I got muse 0.6 , ams, ZynaddSubFX and ardour Beta
running ok but i miss
a Sampler/Drummachine, since i fail to compile hydrogene i would be very
thankfull for any hint towards Mandrake 9.1 - RPMs containing some
Softsampler / Drumbox that can be jacked.
FWIW, I'm currently working on just such a thing (a softsampler, that is).
I expect to make an initial release in a couple of weeks.
[pb]
--
"The direct use of physical force is so poor a solution to the problem
of limited resources that it is only employed commonly by small
children and great nations."
-David D. Friedman
5:14 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] midi timing problems
Hello everyone.
I have a problem with midi timing.. I think I have set up enhanced rtc
correctly and low latency patch on kernel 2.4.20.
When I drive hydrogen (or even the inbuilt soundfont player on my
SBLive) with seq24 or ardour, there is a noticable variation in midi
timing. This was tested by using a run of closed hihats. When I play the
sequence back, the hihats are grouped in batches rather than being
evenly spaced. This was noticable when running as root and when using
alsa and (to a lesser extent) jack. The midi connection is via alsa.
Any hints on what I should do?
James
12 Nov
12 Nov
2:09 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] midi timing problems
On Tuesday 11 November 2003 22:13, James Stone wrote:
Hello everyone.
I have a problem with midi timing.. I think I have set up enhanced rtc
correctly and low latency patch on kernel 2.4.20.
When I drive hydrogen (or even the inbuilt soundfont player on my
SBLive) with seq24 or ardour, there is a noticable variation in midi
timing. This was tested by using a run of closed hihats. When I play the
sequence back, the hihats are grouped in batches rather than being
evenly spaced. This was noticable when running as root and when using
alsa and (to a lesser extent) jack. The midi connection is via alsa.
Any hints on what I should do?
Hi James,
sadly I must admit that hydrogen has still some problems with midi input, the
notes are aligned with a resolution equal to the buffer size..I should fix
this soon...
ciao
--
Alessandro <Comix> Cominu
http://hydrogen.sf.net
e-mail: comix(a)despammed.com
Icq: 116354077
Linux User # 203765
[...Codito Ergo Sum...]
4:55 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] midi timing problems
On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 01:08:03PM +0100, Comix wrote:
On Tuesday 11 November 2003 22:13, James Stone wrote:
Thanks for that.. But I dont think it solves my entire problem as I still
have questionable timing when driving the builtin soundfont synth on my
soundcard.. And by the way, hydrogen is by _far_ the best drumloop
sequencer in linux.. I am quite happy to export completed loops as wavs
to use in Muse as a workaround for the time being.
James.
Hello everyone.
I have a problem with midi timing.. I think I have set up enhanced rtc
correctly and low latency patch on kernel 2.4.20.
When I drive hydrogen (or even the inbuilt soundfont player on my
SBLive) with seq24 or ardour, there is a noticable variation in midi
timing. This was tested by using a run of closed hihats. When I play the
sequence back, the hihats are grouped in batches rather than being
evenly spaced. This was noticable when running as root and when using
alsa and (to a lesser extent) jack. The midi connection is via alsa.
Any hints on what I should do?
Hi James,
sadly I must admit that hydrogen has still some problems with midi input, the
notes are aligned with a resolution equal to the buffer size..I should fix
this soon...
ciao
--
Alessandro <Comix> Cominu
15 Nov
15 Nov
1:13 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] midi timing problems
On Tue, Nov 11, 2003 at 09:13:58PM +0000, James Stone wrote:
Hello everyone.
I have a problem with midi timing.. I think I have set up enhanced rtc
correctly and low latency patch on kernel 2.4.20.
When I drive hydrogen (or even the inbuilt soundfont player on my
SBLive) with seq24 or ardour, there is a noticable variation in midi
timing. This was tested by using a run of closed hihats. When I play the
sequence back, the hihats are grouped in batches rather than being
evenly spaced. This was noticable when running as root and when using
alsa and (to a lesser extent) jack. The midi connection is via alsa.
Any hints on what I should do?
James
Just to reply to myself,
I solved the problem:
I needed to install the snd-rtctimer for alsa. This required a patch to
the kernel RTC (patch included with ALSA but also needed a tweak. see:
http://www.geocrawler.com/archives/3/12349/2001/7/0/6299315/
)
After that, snd-rtctimer built okay. Then I added the following to
modules.conf:
options snd-timer snd_timer_limit=2
options snd-seq snd_seq_default_timer_resolution=2000 snd_seq_default_timer=1
options snd-rtctimer rtctimer_freq=2048
alias snd-timer-1 snd-rtctimer
Now, midi timing is sorted (at least for muse when running as root so it
can access the RTC.. seq24 doesn't seem to be quite there yet in my
experience).
James
7:37 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] midi timing problems
On Sat, Nov 15, 2003 at 05:12:45PM +0000, James Stone wrote:
On Tue, Nov 11, 2003 at 09:13:58PM +0000, James Stone
wrote:
So... you got the rtc patch to apply on kernel 2.4.20???
Are you using vanilla kernel sources with low-latency patch?
It fails for me :-(
I am using gentoo "gaming-sources" for 2.4.20,
which have preemptible and lowlat patches already applied.
I get three rejects (one in the makefile as described in that
message), two in rtc.c which are trivial to fix by hand...
but then "make modules" fails on rtc.c:
make[2]: Entering directory `/usr/src/linux-2.4.20-gaming-r3/drivers/char'
gcc -D__KERNEL__ -I/usr/src/linux-2.4.20-gaming-r3/include -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes
-Wno-trigraphs -O2 -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fomit-frame-pointer -pipe
-mpreferred-stack-boundary=2 -march=i686 -DMODULE -DMODVERSIONS -include
/usr/src/linux-2.4.20-gaming-r3/include/linux/modversions.h -nostdinc -iwithprefix
include -DKBUILD_BASENAME=rtc -DEXPORT_SYMTAB -c rtc.c
rtc.c:150: redefinition of `rtc_task_lock'
rtc.c:145: `rtc_task_lock' previously defined here
rtc.c:151: redefinition of `rtc_callback'
rtc.c:146: `rtc_callback' previously defined here
rtc.c:591: redefinition of `rtc_do_ioctl'
rtc.c:296: `rtc_do_ioctl' previously defined here
rtc.c:780: redefinition of `__kstrtab_rtc_register_Rsmp_fdab2b9c'
rtc.c:698: `__kstrtab_rtc_register_Rsmp_fdab2b9c' previously defined here
rtc.c:780: redefinition of `__ksymtab_rtc_register_Rsmp_fdab2b9c'
rtc.c:698: `__ksymtab_rtc_register_Rsmp_fdab2b9c' previously defined here
rtc.c:781: redefinition of `__kstrtab_rtc_unregister_Rsmp_eddfe49d'
rtc.c:699: `__kstrtab_rtc_unregister_Rsmp_eddfe49d' previously defined here
rtc.c:781: redefinition of `__ksymtab_rtc_unregister_Rsmp_eddfe49d'
rtc.c:699: `__ksymtab_rtc_unregister_Rsmp_eddfe49d' previously defined here
rtc.c:782: redefinition of `__kstrtab_rtc_control_Rsmp_c9b27289'
rtc.c:700: `__kstrtab_rtc_control_Rsmp_c9b27289' previously defined here
rtc.c:782: redefinition of `__ksymtab_rtc_control_Rsmp_c9b27289'
rtc.c:700: `__ksymtab_rtc_control_Rsmp_c9b27289' previously defined here
rtc.c:785: redefinition of `rtc_register_Rsmp_fdab2b9c'
rtc.c:703: `rtc_register_Rsmp_fdab2b9c' previously defined here
rtc.c:811: redefinition of `rtc_unregister_Rsmp_eddfe49d'
rtc.c:729: `rtc_unregister_Rsmp_eddfe49d' previously defined here
rtc.c:843: redefinition of `rtc_control_Rsmp_c9b27289'
rtc.c:761: `rtc_control_Rsmp_c9b27289' previously defined here
rtc.c:145: warning: `rtc_task_lock' defined but not used
rtc.c:146: warning: `rtc_callback' defined but not used
rtc.c:296: warning: `rtc_do_ioctl' defined but not used
{standard input}: Assembler messages:
{standard input}:58: Error: symbol `rtc_task_lock' is already defined
{standard input}:63: Error: symbol `rtc_callback' is already defined
{standard input}:189: Error: symbol `__kstrtab_rtc_register_Rsmp_fdab2b9c' is already
defined
{standard input}:196: Error: symbol `__ksymtab_rtc_register_Rsmp_fdab2b9c' is already
defined
{standard input}:203: Error: symbol `__kstrtab_rtc_unregister_Rsmp_eddfe49d' is
already defined
{standard input}:210: Error: symbol `__ksymtab_rtc_unregister_Rsmp_eddfe49d' is
already defined
{standard input}:217: Error: symbol `__kstrtab_rtc_control_Rsmp_c9b27289' is already
defined
{standard input}:224: Error: symbol `__ksymtab_rtc_control_Rsmp_c9b27289' is already
defined
make[2]: *** [rtc.o] Error 1
make[2]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/linux-2.4.20-gaming-r3/drivers/char'
make[1]: *** [_modsubdir_char] Error 2
make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/linux-2.4.20-gaming-r3/drivers'
make: *** [_mod_drivers] Error 2
Any clues?
--
Paul Winkler
http://www.slinkp.com
Look! Up in the sky! It's IAMBIC HEART PROFESSOR!
(random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com)
Hello everyone.
I have a problem with midi timing.. I think I have set up enhanced rtc
correctly and low latency patch on kernel 2.4.20.
When I drive hydrogen (or even the inbuilt soundfont player on my
SBLive) with seq24 or ardour, there is a noticable variation in midi
timing. This was tested by using a run of closed hihats. When I play the
sequence back, the hihats are grouped in batches rather than being
evenly spaced. This was noticable when running as root and when using
alsa and (to a lesser extent) jack. The midi connection is via alsa.
Any hints on what I should do?
James
Just to reply to myself,
I solved the problem:
I needed to install the snd-rtctimer for alsa. This required a patch to
the kernel RTC (patch included with ALSA but also needed a tweak. see:
http://www.geocrawler.com/archives/3/12349/2001/7/0/6299315/
8:39 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] midi timing problems
On Sat, Nov 15, 2003 at 06:45:05PM -0500, Paul Winkler wrote:
It fails for me :-(
Never mind, operator error.
I had applied the patch twice 8-(
--
Paul Winkler
http://www.slinkp.com
Look! Up in the sky! It's CYBERNETIC JIBBAJABBAN ELEPHANT LAYWER!
(random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com)
18 Nov
18 Nov
6:32 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] midi timing problems
On Sat, Nov 15, 2003 at 05:12:45PM +0000, James Stone wrote:
On Tue, Nov 11, 2003 at 09:13:58PM +0000, James Stone
wrote:
Just a further note.. Needed to apply the variable frequency kernel
scheduling patch and set the frequency to 1000Hz and now the timing
problem with seq24 is solved.
James
Hello everyone.
I have a problem with midi timing.. I think I have set up enhanced rtc
correctly and low latency patch on kernel 2.4.20.
When I drive hydrogen (or even the inbuilt soundfont player on my
SBLive) with seq24 or ardour, there is a noticable variation in midi
timing. This was tested by using a run of closed hihats. When I play the
sequence back, the hihats are grouped in batches rather than being
evenly spaced. This was noticable when running as root and when using
alsa and (to a lesser extent) jack. The midi connection is via alsa.
Any hints on what I should do?
James
Just to reply to myself,
I solved the problem:
I needed to install the snd-rtctimer for alsa. This required a patch to
the kernel RTC (patch included with ALSA but also needed a tweak. see:
http://www.geocrawler.com/archives/3/12349/2001/7/0/6299315/
)
After that, snd-rtctimer built okay. Then I added the following to
modules.conf:
options snd-timer snd_timer_limit=2
options snd-seq snd_seq_default_timer_resolution=2000 snd_seq_default_timer=1
options snd-rtctimer rtctimer_freq=2048
alias snd-timer-1 snd-rtctimer
Now, midi timing is sorted (at least for muse when running as root so it
can access the RTC.. seq24 doesn't seem to be quite there yet in my
experience). 
8:20 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] midi timing problems
I've followed this thread lightly, I should've followed it closer
I've a question for you - what version of hydrogen are you using, and how do
you get it to sync to ardour? this is something I haven't had any luck
with, and haven't even had a chance to spend enough time on, given how
important it is to my setup...
---------------------------------------------------------------
Houston Poetry Slam Team
www.houstonpoetryslam.com
NQuit Records
www.nquit.com
---------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Stone" <stone1(a)btinternet.com>
To: "A list for linux audio users" <linux-audio-user(a)music.columbia.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 4:32 PM
Subject: Re: [linux-audio-user] midi timing problems
On Sat, Nov 15, 2003 at 05:12:45PM +0000, James Stone
wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 11, 2003 at 09:13:58PM +0000, James Stone wrote:
> > Hello everyone.
> >
> > I have a problem with midi timing.. I think I have set up enhanced rtc
> > correctly and low latency patch on kernel 2.4.20.
> >
> > When I drive hydrogen (or even the inbuilt soundfont player on my
> > SBLive) with seq24 or ardour, there is a noticable variation in midi
> > timing. This was tested by using a run of closed hihats. When I play
the
> > sequence back, the hihats are grouped in
batches rather than being
> > evenly spaced. This was noticable when running as root and when using
> > alsa and (to a lesser extent) jack. The midi connection is via alsa.
> >
> > Any hints on what I should do?
> >
> > James
>
> Just to reply to myself,
>
> I solved the problem:
>
> I needed to install the snd-rtctimer for alsa. This required a patch to
> the kernel RTC (patch included with ALSA but also needed a tweak. see:
>
> http://www.geocrawler.com/archives/3/12349/2001/7/0/6299315/
>
> )
>
> After that, snd-rtctimer built okay. Then I added the following to
> modules.conf:
>
> options snd-timer snd_timer_limit=2
> options snd-seq snd_seq_default_timer_resolution=2000
snd_seq_default_timer=1
options
snd-rtctimer rtctimer_freq=2048
alias snd-timer-1 snd-rtctimer
Now, midi timing is sorted (at least for muse when running as root so it
can access the RTC.. seq24 doesn't seem to be quite there yet in my
experience).
Just a further note.. Needed to apply the variable frequency kernel
scheduling patch and set the frequency to 1000Hz and now the timing
problem with seq24 is solved.
James
19 Nov
19 Nov
1:35 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] midi timing problems
On Tue, Nov 18, 2003 at 06:17:00PM -0600, Aaron Trumm wrote:
I've followed this thread lightly, I should've
followed it closer
I've a question for you - what version of hydrogen are you using,
I'm using 0.8.1beta4 from CVS. I don't think earlier releases
had the jack transport support, not sure.
and how do
you get it to sync to ardour?
in the hydrogen preferences, audio driver,
select "jack", and check "jack transport slave".
Then click the play button and note that it isn't playing.
In Ardour, record-enable some tracks, click record,
click play, and note that hydrogen starts playing instantly.
Fun :-)
--
Paul Winkler
http://www.slinkp.com
Look! Up in the sky! It's X- QUACKERY SADIST!
(random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com)
2:26 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] midi timing problems
in the hydrogen preferences, audio driver,
select "jack", and check "jack transport slave".
Then click the play button and note that it isn't playing.
In Ardour, record-enable some tracks, click record,
click play, and note that hydrogen starts playing instantly.
Fun :-)
easy and how I would expect - I must be running an earlier hydrogen version
:)
7749
days inactive
7758
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
21 comments
11 participants
participants (11)
-
Aaron Trumm -
Benjamin Flaming -
Comix -
Frank Barknecht -
Hartmut Z Noack -
James Stone -
lee＠fallingforward.net -
Mathias Lundgren -
Paul Winkler -
Peter Bessman -
Ryan