23 Feb
2006
23 Feb
'06
12:10 a.m.
Hi,
I've setup a new FC4 system with alsa, jack, etc, and a SB Live card.
I'm trying to play some guitar thru the line in (eventually into
sooperlooper, maybe audor, etc). No matter what I've tried, if I try to
get any significant volume, it's distorted terribly (not to mention some
terrible humming - something else I have to look into yet...)
Are there any simple guidelines for getting a nice clean guitar sound?
Could any one point me in the right direction? or any good references
out there?
There's seems to be a lot of places to set the levels: guitar, amp,
alsamixer (capture, line in), but I feel like I've tried it all. I'd
like to go thru my amp first, which has a line out and headphone out.
I'm also willing to invest in some new hardware if that's what it takes.
thanks.
23 Feb
23 Feb
2:24 a.m.
On 2/22/06, Ken Schutte <kschutte(a)csail.mit.edu> wrote:
Hi,
I've setup a new FC4 system with alsa, jack, etc, and a SB Live card.
I'm trying to play some guitar thru the line in (eventually into
sooperlooper, maybe audor, etc). No matter what I've tried, if I try to
get any significant volume, it's distorted terribly (not to mention some
terrible humming - something else I have to look into yet...)
Are there any simple guidelines for getting a nice clean guitar sound?
Could any one point me in the right direction? or any good references
out there?
There's seems to be a lot of places to set the levels: guitar, amp,
alsamixer (capture, line in), but I feel like I've tried it all. I'd
like to go thru my amp first, which has a line out and headphone out.
I'm also willing to invest in some new hardware if that's what it takes.
thanks.
Hello Ken,
Good guitar sound is pretty hard to get right without something
additional to what you are using. I'm not saying it can't be done, but
for myself, I wouldn't even try it.
There are two solutions I can easily give you. First, is get a decent
instrument mic, or if you want something pretty versatile, the Shure
SM-58 is a good choice. Get a cheap mixing console (such as a Yamaha
MG10/2) or a mic preamp, and plug the output into your line-in. Now
just experiment with mic placement and amp volume levels, as well as
your mixer EQ settings until you get your desired sound.
The other route is to get a direct box for your guitar, or some kind
of amp emulator. Personally, this is the route I took because I wasn't
happy with my amp. I bought a Line6 POD 2.0 from someone on eBay, and
now I can simply dial in the desire amp, speaker cab, tone and
settings, and some basic effects (delay, reverb, chorus, etc). There
are other options too; someone in another thread mentioned a similar
device from Zoom with USB support. Be careful to not buy the Zoom
505II multi-pedal as it has horrible noise issues. Anyhow, I can plug
my POD into my line-in, but because I have many devices, I went ahead
and got a mixer and use that in between.
The advantage of the POD or similar device is that you have a wide
variety of sounds available at your fingertips, whereas if you use
just one amp, you are more limited. But it depends on what you want.
If you would like some sound samples of the POD, I could record some
of the settings I use to an Ogg or MP3 file for you.
2:41 a.m.
On Thu, Feb 23, 2006 at 01:24:52AM -0500, Dana Olson wrote:
On 2/22/06, Ken Schutte <kschutte(a)csail.mit.edu>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I've setup a new FC4 system with alsa, jack, etc, and a SB Live card.
> I'm trying to play some guitar thru the line in (eventually into
> sooperlooper, maybe audor, etc). No matter what I've tried, if I try to
> get any significant volume, it's distorted terribly (not to mention some
> terrible humming - something else I have to look into yet...)
Are you plugging the guitar directly into the line in?
That doesn't really work well unless the guitar has active electronics
(i.e. there's a battery in there).
You need something that converts the guitar's output to line level
and matches impedance well.
Typical ways to do this are:
guitar -> amp ; amp line out -> soundcard
guitar -> direct box -> mixer mic input ; mixer line output -> soundcard
guitar -> direct box providing line out (rare) -> soundcard
guitar -> amp emulator; line out -> soundcard
> There's seems to be a lot of places to set
the levels: guitar, amp,
> alsamixer (capture, line in), but I feel like I've tried it all. I'd
> like to go thru my amp first, which has a line out and headphone out.
The line out from the amp should work OK.
Have you tried recording other sources through your card's line in?
That would help you narrow down where the problems originate.
Once you get a clean signal into the computer, I recommend
playing with the CAPS plugin suite; lots of fun!
See http://quitte.de/dsp/caps.html#Emulation
--
Paul Winkler
http://www.slinkp.com
25 Feb
25 Feb
7:41 p.m.
On Thu, 2006-02-23 at 01:40 -0500, Paul Winkler wrote:
Are you plugging the guitar directly into the line
in?
That doesn't really work well unless the guitar has active electronics
(i.e. there's a battery in there).
Well, according to the picture on the back of the SBLive! box you can
plug a guitar straight into it. And we all know Creative would never
engage in deceptive marketing...
Lee
26 Feb
26 Feb
8:30 a.m.
On Sat, sometime in Feb 2006
Lee wrote:
I was once at a pink floyd concert where some people really did believe that pigs could
fly, depending on what drug they where on. So I wonder what the drug is that the
manufactures have fed us is?
Are you
plugging the guitar directly into the line in?
That doesn't really work well unless the guitar has active electronics
(i.e. there's a battery in there).
Well, according to the picture on the back of the SBLive! box you can
plug a guitar straight into it. And we all know Creative would never
engage in deceptive marketing...
Lee 
23 Feb
23 Feb
4:02 a.m.
Le 22 Feb à 23:11, Ken Schutte ecrivait:
I've setup a new FC4 system with alsa, jack, etc,
and a SB Live card.
[...]
There's seems to be a lot of places to set the
levels: guitar, amp,
alsamixer (capture, line in), but I feel like I've tried it all. I'd
like to go thru my amp first, which has a line out and headphone out.
Hi.
Maybe the SB Live isn't the ideal solution, but plug your guitar
using only the *preamp* output (or level, or gain, or whatever you can do)
if your hardware permits that. Then, as it has been said, you should
really try CAPS plugins, especially the cabinet simulator. This plugin has
a really tremendous effect and is, imho, the starting point for searching
a nice sound. Without this cabinet simulator, the guitar will always sound
like if it would be plugged directly in a hi fi system. The author says
that preset number 5 sounds like a Marshall amp, and number 4 more like a
Fender one. Number 0 is bypass.
http://quitte.de/dsp/caps.html#CabinetI
Consider also the hard clipping program included in CAPS suite for
adjusting level, in conjunction with premp simulator. Finally the plate
reverb also provided with CAPS sounds really nice.
With this suite, I control all the guitar sound and level in a
single jack rack (I plug the recording output of a Mesa Boogie *preamp* in a
Hammerfall).
Cheers,
--
Yves Potin
Logiciels libres pour l'enseignement :
http://logiciels-libres-cndp.ac-versailles.fr/
8:11 a.m.
Ken Schutte wrote:
Hi,
I've setup a new FC4 system with alsa, jack, etc, and a SB Live card.
I'm trying to play some guitar thru the line in (eventually into
sooperlooper, maybe audor, etc). No matter what I've tried, if I try
to get any significant volume, it's distorted terribly (not to mention
some terrible humming - something else I have to look into yet...)
Are there any simple guidelines for getting a nice clean guitar sound?
Could any one point me in the right direction? or any good references
out there?
There's seems to be a lot of places to set the levels: guitar, amp,
alsamixer (capture, line in), but I feel like I've tried it all. I'd
like to go thru my amp first, which has a line out and headphone out.
I'm also willing to invest in some new hardware if that's what it takes.
thanks.
Hi
I have been very happy with the results I have had using a soundblaster
live card. I go direct in to the breakout box at the front. If in
doubt for now use alsamixer, as sometimes other volume programs seem to
work with various degrees of effectiveness. Make sure you have selected
the right recording input & raised the levels. You can check your
levels with the jack meterbridge. My guitar hums if it is too near the
monitor/PC so I have a good long lead & move away as far as I can.
I am so pleased with LADPSPA effects that I do not use my FX box or
crank up my Marshall. You can use jack-rack as a virtual effects rack.
If you check the LAU archive some of us were putting up our patches a
few weeks ago.
The most essential effect is (as has been mentioned) speaker emulation
found in the CAPS plug ins. It is more important on distorted guitar to
avoid the famous 'wasp in a jam jar' sound - normally a decent amps
speaker 'shapes' the sound & avoids this, so if you go direct you have
to do it digitally.
I have tried Tele, Les paul & Strat types of guitar & gotten a great
sound with each using Soundblaster Linux & LADSPA. If someone more able
than I could devise a footswitch a PC ( or even a laptop) could make an
awesome FX unit.
Regards
Guy
8:30 a.m.
On 2/23/06, Guy <sayhi2guy(a)tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Ken Schutte wrote:
I forgot to address the volume levels question. The best thing to do
is to set your line-in recording level as low as possible, and
increase the volume going into your line-in port to the maximum level
possible without clipping. Then, increment your line-in level until
you have a maximum volume level coming into your recording app without
clipping. The lower your line-in setting, the better for noise ratio.
You always want to have higher volume earlier in the chain to reduce
noise from gain in the later stages.
With my mixer and my SB Live! 5.1 card, I had my line-in level set to
about 7% or so, and used the mixer's full range. The mixer is very
handy in this regard, as it has level meters that show when the
channel inputs and main output is clipping.
Dana
Hi,
I've setup a new FC4 system with alsa, jack, etc, and a SB Live card.
I'm trying to play some guitar thru the line in (eventually into
sooperlooper, maybe audor, etc). No matter what I've tried, if I try
to get any significant volume, it's distorted terribly (not to mention
some terrible humming - something else I have to look into yet...)
Are there any simple guidelines for getting a nice clean guitar sound?
Could any one point me in the right direction? or any good references
out there?
There's seems to be a lot of places to set the levels: guitar, amp,
alsamixer (capture, line in), but I feel like I've tried it all. I'd
like to go thru my amp first, which has a line out and headphone out.
I'm also willing to invest in some new hardware if that's what it takes.
thanks.
Hi
I have been very happy with the results I have had using a soundblaster
live card. I go direct in to the breakout box at the front. If in
doubt for now use alsamixer, as sometimes other volume programs seem to
work with various degrees of effectiveness. Make sure you have selected
the right recording input & raised the levels. You can check your
levels with the jack meterbridge. My guitar hums if it is too near the
monitor/PC so I have a good long lead & move away as far as I can.
I am so pleased with LADPSPA effects that I do not use my FX box or
crank up my Marshall. You can use jack-rack as a virtual effects rack.
If you check the LAU archive some of us were putting up our patches a
few weeks ago.
The most essential effect is (as has been mentioned) speaker emulation
found in the CAPS plug ins. It is more important on distorted guitar to
avoid the famous 'wasp in a jam jar' sound - normally a decent amps
speaker 'shapes' the sound & avoids this, so if you go direct you have
to do it digitally.
I have tried Tele, Les paul & Strat types of guitar & gotten a great
sound with each using Soundblaster Linux & LADSPA. If someone more able
than I could devise a footswitch a PC ( or even a laptop) could make an
awesome FX unit.
Regards
Guy 
11:41 a.m.
On 2/23/06, Guy <sayhi2guy(a)tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
I have tried Tele, Les paul & Strat types of
guitar & gotten a great
sound with each using Soundblaster Linux & LADSPA. If someone more able
than I could devise a footswitch a PC ( or even a laptop) could make an
awesome FX unit.
Regards
Guy
Done! Use the analog joystick port. Cut the cable of any old
joystick and figure out which wires maps to which pins. Connect the
button wires to ground with a switch in between. I actually wired
the buttons to a 1/4" TRS jack so I can plug in an old 2 switch amp
footswitch.
Then hack aseqjoy to send MIDI CCs or notes on button press events (a
simple change). Unfortunately I don't think you can map MIDI events
to the "Enable" buttons in jack-rack. Feature request...
Or send $10 to Kraft and get a "dance pad"
[http://www.kraftbrands.com/activegame/] and you've already got 10
footswitches, kind of. More aseqjoy hacking required. I got one of
these things and the joystick driver in RH9 handles it just fine.
Unfortunately, it's way too big to use effectively.
11:46 a.m.
You could also check out the MAME resources regarding
keyboard hacking.
--- Paul Coccoli <pcoccoli(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On 2/23/06, Guy <sayhi2guy(a)tiscali.co.uk>
wrote:
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
I have tried Tele, Les paul & Strat types of
guitar & gotten a great
sound with each using Soundblaster Linux &
LADSPA.
If someone more able
than I could devise a footswitch a PC ( or even a
laptop) could make an
awesome FX unit.
Regards
Guy
Done! Use the analog joystick port. Cut the cable
of any old
joystick and figure out which wires maps to which
pins. Connect the
button wires to ground with a switch in between. I
actually wired
the buttons to a 1/4" TRS jack so I can plug in an
old 2 switch amp
footswitch.
Then hack aseqjoy to send MIDI CCs or notes on
button press events (a
simple change). Unfortunately I don't think you can
map MIDI events
to the "Enable" buttons in jack-rack. Feature
request...
Or send $10 to Kraft and get a "dance pad"
[http://www.kraftbrands.com/activegame/] and you've
already got 10
footswitches, kind of. More aseqjoy hacking
required. I got one of
these things and the joystick driver in RH9 handles
it just fine.
Unfortunately, it's way too big to use effectively.
9:28 a.m.
Ken Schutte wrote:
I've setup a new FC4 system with alsa, jack, etc,
and a SB Live card.
I'm trying to play some guitar thru the line in (eventually into
sooperlooper, maybe audor, etc). No matter what I've tried, if I try to
get any significant volume, it's distorted terribly (not to mention some
terrible humming - something else I have to look into yet...)
What kind of guitar are you using? What kind of pickups?
Are there any simple guidelines for getting a nice
clean guitar sound?
Could any one point me in the right direction? or any good references
out there?
There's seems to be a lot of places to set the levels: guitar, amp,
alsamixer (capture, line in), but I feel like I've tried it all. I'd
like to go thru my amp first, which has a line out and headphone out.
I'm also willing to invest in some new hardware if that's what it takes.
I personally don't recommend going direct into the sound card with a
guitar, you should at least use a pre-amp or something to boost the
signal, since the level coming from the pickups is very low, and the
pre-amp in the sound card can be easy to overdrive with a guitar.
Something like the M-Audio Audio Buddy or one of the ART MP tube
pre-amps (both are relatively inexpensive) might be good for some
things, although a real guitar pre-amp is ideal (and expensive). You can
also get modeling pre-amps, like the Behrenger V-Amp (only $99 from
Musician's Friend) or the Line 6 PODxt (about $299) -- these allow you
to model amplifiers, microphones, rooms, etc., as well as give you a
variety of effects and tone options. These are great for recording with,
and you're neighbors will appreciate it also. :-)
If you have the space and forgiving neighbors and decent microphones,
miking your guitar amp is the best option... this depends on the amp, of
course. A cheap 15 watt Squier isn't going to sound all that great no
matter what way you record it, whereas a 15 watt Fender Blonde Blues
Junior Class A tube amp should *only* be miked and never used direct, IMHO.
-- Brett
--
Brett McCoy: Programmer by Day, Guitarist by Night
http://www.alhazred.com
http://www.cassandrasyndrome.com
http://www.revelmoon.com
10:46 a.m.
Brett McCoy escribe:
I personally don't recommend going direct into the
sound card with a
guitar, you should at least use a pre-amp or something to boost the
signal, since the level coming from the pickups is very low, and the
pre-amp in the sound card can be easy to overdrive with a guitar.
Something like the M-Audio Audio Buddy or one of the ART MP tube
pre-amps (both are relatively inexpensive) might be good for some
things, although a real guitar pre-amp is ideal (and expensive). You can
also get modeling pre-amps, like the Behrenger V-Amp (only $99 from
Musician's Friend) or the Line 6 PODxt (about $299) -- these allow you
to model amplifiers, microphones, rooms, etc., as well as give you a
variety of effects and tone options. These are great for recording with,
and you're neighbors will appreciate it also. :-)
A DI box is even more inexpensive than a pre-amp and does the job. It
simply puts the signal at line level.
But I once had a JoeMeek pre-amp, don't remember which model, and it
recorded lovely both voices and guitars. Not very expensive and well
worth the money.
Cordially, Ismael
--
mí, myself et moi http://lamediahostia.blogspot.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ivalladt/
10:52 a.m.
Ismael Valladolid Torres wrote:
A DI box is even more inexpensive than a pre-amp and
does the job. It
simply puts the signal at line level.
Yep, some active DI boxes are effectively pre-amps, some even offer
cabinet simulation, tone shaping, etc.
-- Brett
--
Brett McCoy: Programmer by Day, Guitarist by Night
http://www.alhazred.com
http://www.cassandrasyndrome.com
http://www.revelmoon.com
1:39 p.m.
Brett McCoy wrote:
Ken Schutte wrote:
The more I think of it, I not too concerned with using my amp (and I'd
rather not have to mic it), so if I could do everything in software that
would be great - I'll definately check out that CAPS plugin.
I'd been trying:
guitar -> amp ; amp line out -> soundcard
and having the problems that I mentioned. I felt like I tried all the
adjusting of levels, but I'll try some of the tips I got. Most likely,
I'll try and pick up a little preamp, and do:
guitar (PRS/mccarty pickups) -> M-Audio Audio Buddy mic preamp ->
SBLive Line in -> alsa/jack/caps/etc
Thanks everybody for all the responses!
Ken
I've setup a new FC4 system with alsa, jack,
etc, and a SB Live card.
I'm trying to play some guitar thru the line in (eventually into
sooperlooper, maybe audor, etc). No matter what I've tried, if I try
to get any significant volume, it's distorted terribly (not to mention
some terrible humming - something else I have to look into yet...)
What kind of guitar are you using? What kind of pickups?
Are there any simple guidelines for getting a
nice clean guitar sound?
Could any one point me in the right direction? or any good references
out there?
There's seems to be a lot of places to set the levels: guitar, amp,
alsamixer (capture, line in), but I feel like I've tried it all. I'd
like to go thru my amp first, which has a line out and headphone out.
I'm also willing to invest in some new hardware if that's what it takes.
I personally don't recommend going direct into the sound card with a
guitar, you should at least use a pre-amp or something to boost the
signal, since the level coming from the pickups is very low, and the
pre-amp in the sound card can be easy to overdrive with a guitar.
Something like the M-Audio Audio Buddy or one of the ART MP tube
pre-amps (both are relatively inexpensive) might be good for some
things, although a real guitar pre-amp is ideal (and expensive). You can
also get modeling pre-amps, like the Behrenger V-Amp (only $99 from
Musician's Friend) or the Line 6 PODxt (about $299) -- these allow you
to model amplifiers, microphones, rooms, etc., as well as give you a
variety of effects and tone options. These are great for recording with,
and you're neighbors will appreciate it also. :-)
6874
days inactive
6878
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
13 comments
11 participants
participants (11)
-
Brett McCoy -
Dana Olson -
Guy -
Ismael Valladolid Torres -
Ken Schutte -
Lee Revell -
Paul Coccoli -
Paul Winkler -
Sean Edwards -
Tracey Hytry -
yves_p＠nnx.com