9 Dec
2006
9 Dec
'06
1:54 p.m.
Hello,
It seems that there is a general sense of frustration among the
linux audio community with attracting more developers, users, etc. to
start using Linux for serious audio work.
The thing that has been frustrating me lately is that there are
developers that are offering "free" (as in free beer) software, but
they seem to have no interest in a GPL release for Linux! (For
example, VST plugins like Ambience, GSnap, etc.) Maybe I'm just
stupid, but that doesn't make sense to me. Unless it is simply due to
their unfamiliarity with Linux programming, and the thought of
maintaining support for another OS...
So I was wondering if there was any ongoing "official" effort to
pull these developers over to the light side. Would a bounty help
persuade them? Any thoughts?
-TimH
9 Dec
9 Dec
2:17 p.m.
hi tim,
On Sat, 2006-12-09 at 09:54 -0800, Tim Howard wrote:
Hello,
It seems that there is a general sense of frustration among the
linux audio community with attracting more developers, users, etc. to
start using Linux for serious audio work.
no, it's just you. ;)
The thing that has been frustrating me lately is
that there are
developers that are offering "free" (as in free beer) software, but
they seem to have no interest in a GPL release for Linux! (For
example, VST plugins like Ambience, GSnap, etc.) Maybe I'm just
stupid, but that doesn't make sense to me. Unless it is simply due to
their unfamiliarity with Linux programming, and the thought of
maintaining support for another OS...
what you say is not true. they're coming. i migrated from windows to
linux. we ported a few plugins. energyxt is being ported. there will be
more and more, and i do not believe it requires any special effort or
bounty to persuade them. slowly, people are going to realize that
windows is a dead end. sometimes all you have to do is wait, and help
the people who just arrived to find a good start.
--
Leonard Ritter
-- Freelance Art & Logic
-- http://www.leonard-ritter.com
4 p.m.
bounty to persuade them. slowly, people are going to
realize that
windows is a dead end. sometimes all you have to do is wait, and help
<rant>
Actually, realization will be a rather quick once Vista spreads and it turns
out to be ridden with the same security issues XP had 5 years go. Now,
average user may not care/understand this much (likely they will probably
continue believing in the motto "reboot/crash a day keeps bugs at bay"), but
for developers, it will be a no-brainer.
OTOH, given that Linux market has actually shrunk over the past few years,
and we are yet to return to the market cap of our micro-Renaissance of the
2000/1, the lack of the critical mass/paying customers will likely be a
deterrent to the aforesaid migration from commercial developer perspective.
All that being said, Universities have and will continue to be bastions of
Linux and if my recent meetings are any indication, at least as far as
Virginia Tech is concerned, its adoption in education sector will continue
to grow exponentially...
</rant>
Ico
4:17 p.m.
Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote:
Developers will be drawn to where the money is, unless it's a love. And,
that's MAC and Windows right now. I seriously doubt that is going to
change with Vista and the problems that may come with it. Problems are
just something to be solved. Developers need to eat and since the vast
majority of OSs out there are MAC and Windows, they'll stay there. It's
a numbers and survival game.
I see more interest in developer tools that can author the application
in one environment and deploy to several. That is until the OS
completely goes away - which will be some time from now ;-)
It is interesting that universities are moving more and more to Linux
and other FOSS. In the long run, this might turn out to be a tactic that
eventually infiltrates Linux into homes and to creators of music and
other art because of their exposure in school. I don't know how
successful Apple was with it's education initiative in the past. I heard
that it was successful a number of years ago. But, I see High Schools
with PCs, not MACs (though, I don't have the real numbers, just a
personal observation.)
--
brad fuller
http://www.Sonaural.com/
+1 (408) 799-6124
bounty to
persuade them. slowly, people are going to realize that
windows is a dead end. sometimes all you have to do is wait, and help
<rant>
Actually, realization will be a rather quick once Vista spreads and it turns
out to be ridden with the same security issues XP had 5 years go. Now,
average user may not care/understand this much (likely they will probably
continue believing in the motto "reboot/crash a day keeps bugs at bay"), but
for developers, it will be a no-brainer.
OTOH, given that Linux market has actually shrunk over the past few years,
and we are yet to return to the market cap of our micro-Renaissance of the
2000/1, the lack of the critical mass/paying customers will likely be a
deterrent to the aforesaid migration from commercial developer perspective.
All that being said, Universities have and will continue to be bastions of
Linux and if my recent meetings are any indication, at least as far as
Virginia Tech is concerned, its adoption in education sector will continue
to grow exponentially...
</rant>
Ico
4:23 p.m.
On 12/9/06, Ivica Ico Bukvic <ico(a)vt.edu> wrote:
Actually, so far as audio is concerned, if Vista is incapable of low latency
operations I can see that pulling more developers to Linux and Mac.
But I don't know. All I do know is the gradual feature creep of XP
ultimately made it unusable for audio and midi apps in my case, and I made
the switch to Linux I guess about 2 years ago for this reason. It has mostly
been a frustrating exercise, but the last couple weeks have been very
promising, with the release of a std rt kernel from Ingo Molnar's yum
repository and beta releases of ardour2 of ever increasing quality.
And, as a substancial market for salable products (VST) already exists, it
would be my hope that somehow methods could be developed that would make VST
developers able to develop and sell easily into the Linux market.
OTOH, given that Linux market has actually shrunk over the past few years,
bounty to persuade them. slowly, people are going
to realize that
windows is a dead end. sometimes all you have to do is wait, and help
<rant>
Actually, realization will be a rather quick once Vista spreads and it
turns
out to be ridden with the same security issues XP had 5 years go. Now,
average user may not care/understand this much (likely they will probably
continue believing in the motto "reboot/crash a day keeps bugs at bay"),
but
for developers, it will be a no-brainer. and we are yet to return to the market cap of our
micro-Renaissance of the
2000/1, the lack of the critical mass/paying customers will likely be a
deterrent to the aforesaid migration from commercial developer
perspective.
"Linux market has actually shrunk". Linux on the desktop seems to be
stagnating, sure, but everywhere else seems to remain in growth mode.
All that being said, Universities have and will continue to be bastions of
Linux and if my recent meetings are any indication, at
least as far as
Virginia Tech is concerned, its adoption in education sector will continue
to grow exponentially...
</rant>
Ico
--
Mike Taht
PostCards From the Bleeding Edge
http://the-edge.blogspot.com
"I'd like to live just long enough to be there when they cut off your head
and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some
favors come with too high a price. I would look up into your lifeless eyes
and wave, like this [smiles and waves his fingers at Morden]. Can you and
your associates arrange that for me, Mr. Morden?" - Vir
10 Dec
10 Dec
12:39 p.m.
Actually, so far as audio is concerned, if Vista is
incapable of low
latency operations I can see that pulling more developers to Linux and
Mac.
XP already has a decent latency if you configure it right (which is the same
argument we have for Linux, as even vanilla Linux needs to deal with
rtlimits before you can generate good low-latency performance via jack).
Furthermore, I would not hold my breath expecting Vista's poor audio
performance, as everything I've seen so far suggests much better performance
than XP. However, having maintained OS-agnostic lab, I can tell you XP can
be configured to be a darn good low-latency machine. IMHO other aspects are
what makes XP less desirable than Linux.
Mac does not interest me either as I see it simply as another, commercially
less successful version of XP: mostly closed, proprietary, locked-in,
unreasonably expensive, and marginally posix-compliant which ultimately
makes low-level administration a pain in the rear, needless to mention
Steve's frequent freak-outs which help reaffirm the fact that Apple is a
Microsoft wannabe (a thought which makes me shudder--Can you imagine a world
where Apple has the market of Microsoft? Personal computer would likely
still carry a price tag of a compact car!).
And, as a substancial market for salable products
(VST) already exists, it
would be my hope that somehow methods could be
developed that would make
VST developers able to develop and sell easily into the Linux market.
VST framework for easy porting of VSTs already exists, but there is hardly
any interest to use it due to our market's fiscal ineptness (think: how many
*dedicated* linux audio users are there and more importantly how many of
them would be willing to pay for a Linux-version of a closed/proprietary VST
plug-in).
"Linux market has actually shrunk". Linux on
the desktop seems to be
stagnating, sure, but everywhere else seems to remain in growth mode.
True, but "everywhere else" has absolutely no impact on what we need, namely
desktop environment with good solid audio framework coupled with supporting
software. If anything, it may very well detract from our goals as companies
will continue to pour money only into those aspects of Linux which matter to
them (and I can assure you audio is somewhere at the bottom of that barrel).
Best wishes,
Ico
9 Dec
9 Dec
8:49 p.m.
On Sat, 2006-12-09 at 15:00 -0500, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote:
OTOH, given that Linux market has actually shrunk over
the past few years,
and we are yet to return to the market cap of our micro-Renaissance of the
2000/1, the lack of the critical mass/paying customers will likely be a
deterrent to the aforesaid migration from commercial developer perspective.
2000 was out of control. everything capped with the dot com bubble. if
you want to see how heavy, check virtually all IT corps stock figures of
2000. it was just insane. if the linux market had _not_ capped at 2000,
i would be worried.
--
Leonard Ritter
-- Freelance Art & Logic
-- http://www.leonard-ritter.com
10 Dec
10 Dec
5:30 a.m.
On Sat, 2006-12-09 at 19:17 +0100, Leonard Ritter wrote:
On Sat, 2006-12-09 at 09:54 -0800, Tim Howard wrote:
> Hello,
> It seems that there is a general sense of frustration among the
> linux audio community with attracting more developers, users, etc. to
> start using Linux for serious audio work.
Where can you read about using Linux for serious audio work? It is for
sure not in the mainstream press around here. You have to be seriously
involved in the Linux community to see that there is a platform for
audio work on Linux. Perhaps I was just ignorant because I was not
interested in pursuing my old tracking-career during the 90's on Linux,
but as late as in July, all I knew about the Linux audio community was
the tiny little bit held by Audacity.
Four or five months later, I have a decent low latency system that I can
use for hobby recording. I don't know how many more months it would take
me if I decided to go into audio development.
[cut]
Leonard:
what you say is not true. they're coming. i
migrated from windows to
linux. we ported a few plugins. energyxt is being ported. there will be
more and more, and i do not believe it requires any special effort or
bounty to persuade them. slowly, people are going to realize that
windows is a dead end. sometimes all you have to do is wait, and help
the people who just arrived to find a good start.
The question is, where is this good start? If all the people on this
list got together to form a basic documentation of how to set up a
studio in Linux, you wouldn't have to answer the same questions over and
over again. :) Instead, as a new user, the only solution is endless
googling in largely outdated 30-row-textfiles that does not explain more
than is absolutely necessary.
One cannot develop something one does not understand.
Example:
When asking on this list where to find information about understanding
the .asoundrc-file, I get the answer:
"You shouldn't need .asoundrc. If you do, there's a bug in ALSA".
I got a helpful answer aswell, but that is not the point.
Perhaps stupid questions deserve stupid answers, but that is not what I
asked. :) Before asking this question, I tried consulting the ALSA
developer docs, did endless googling on the subject and tried other
mailing-lists and forums. Maybe the information was out there and I just
didn't find it. And it may very well be completely unnecessary to know
anything about the .asoundrc-file, but when trying to ask stupid
questions and answer them through documentation, it is a bit
frustrating. No offence, you who answered me. :)
Instead of getting questions about realtime kernels twenty times a year,
EVERY year, why not put together a documentation that new users can use?
One that is not written by Paul Winkler in 2000 and has references to
kernel 2.2.x
The intellectual capacity and the knowledge is here. I'd be happy to
compile something like this, I even like to write, but I need some
material to start from. And you guys are the experts.
Just my $/€0.02
Highest regards,
Mathias
12:31 p.m.
Mathias Friman wrote:
On Sat, 2006-12-09 at 19:17 +0100, Leonard Ritter
wrote:
Hi Matthias,
Your concerns are valid. The only way that they will be resolved is if
you take the time to fix the documentation issues you have noticed or to
send updates to the people who maintain the pages you find problems with.
That is how the documents were created in the first place and it is the
only way they will continue to evolve.
If you are unable to contribute then you can harrass the owners but it
doesn't make as much progress or impact in the long run.
Cheers.
--
Patrick Shirkey - Boost Hardware Ltd.
Http://www.boosthardware.com
Http://lau.linuxaudio.org - The Linux Audio Users guide
========================================
"Anything your mind can see you can manifest physically, then it will
become reality" - Macka B
On Sat, 2006-12-09 at 09:54 -0800, Tim Howard
wrote:
> Hello,
> It seems that there is a general sense of frustration among the
> linux audio community with attracting more developers, users, etc. to
> start using Linux for serious audio work.
Where can you read about using Linux for serious audio work? It is for
sure not in the mainstream press around here. You have to be seriously
involved in the Linux community to see that there is a platform for
audio work on Linux. Perhaps I was just ignorant because I was not
interested in pursuing my old tracking-career during the 90's on Linux,
but as late as in July, all I knew about the Linux audio community was
the tiny little bit held by Audacity.
Four or five months later, I have a decent low latency system that I can
use for hobby recording. I don't know how many more months it would take
me if I decided to go into audio development.
[cut]
Leonard:
what you say is not true. they're coming. i
migrated from windows to
linux. we ported a few plugins. energyxt is being ported. there will be
more and more, and i do not believe it requires any special effort or
bounty to persuade them. slowly, people are going to realize that
windows is a dead end. sometimes all you have to do is wait, and help
the people who just arrived to find a good start.
The question is, where is this good start? If all the people on this
list got together to form a basic documentation of how to set up a
studio in Linux, you wouldn't have to answer the same questions over and
over again. :) Instead, as a new user, the only solution is endless
googling in largely outdated 30-row-textfiles that does not explain more
than is absolutely necessary.
One cannot develop something one does not understand.
Example:
When asking on this list where to find information about understanding
the .asoundrc-file, I get the answer:
"You shouldn't need .asoundrc. If you do, there's a bug in ALSA".
I got a helpful answer aswell, but that is not the point.
Perhaps stupid questions deserve stupid answers, but that is not what I
asked. :) Before asking this question, I tried consulting the ALSA
developer docs, did endless googling on the subject and tried other
mailing-lists and forums. Maybe the information was out there and I just
didn't find it. And it may very well be completely unnecessary to know
anything about the .asoundrc-file, but when trying to ask stupid
questions and answer them through documentation, it is a bit
frustrating. No offence, you who answered me. :)
Instead of getting questions about realtime kernels twenty times a year,
EVERY year, why not put together a documentation that new users can use?
One that is not written by Paul Winkler in 2000 and has references to
kernel 2.2.x
The intellectual capacity and the knowledge is here. I'd be happy to
compile something like this, I even like to write, but I need some
material to start from. And you guys are the experts.
Just my $/€0.02
Highest regards,
Mathias
2:09 p.m.
On Sun, 2006-12-10 at 23:30 +0700, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
Hi Mathias,
Your concerns are valid. The only way that they will be resolved is if
you take the time to fix the documentation issues you have noticed or to
send updates to the people who maintain the pages you find problems with.
I've tried that approach with for instance ladspavst.linuxaudio.org.
However, my contributions were not accepted. I did a new CSS to increase
readability on the site. I've also contributed to the Audacity-wiki.
Currently though, I'm working on a admin-solution and a new layout for
the linux-sound.org site, and Dave and I had a dialog for a while. That
was some time before he announced that he would step down, so now i
don't know what the status is. Is anyone else working on this? I saw the
discussion earlier.
I'm also trying to write a swedish manual for linux audio work,
currently at http://linux-daw.blogspot.com so I'm not short of things to
do. ;)
That is how the documents were created in the first
place and it is the
only way they will continue to evolve.
If you are unable to contribute then you can harrass the owners but it
doesn't make as much progress or impact in the long run.
I hope you are not feeling harassed by me. :) That was not the purpose
of my rant.
Patrick Shirkey - Boost Hardware Ltd.
Http://www.boosthardware.com
Http://lau.linuxaudio.org - The Linux Audio Users guide
So how do I contribute to your Linux Audio User Guide? I really like the
idea, and some of the things on the site. I'd like to suggest some
improvements though. I'll do that in a private email instead of on the
list, if you are interested?
Regards,
Mathias
5:17 p.m.
I've tried that approach with for instance
ladspavst.linuxaudio.org.
However, my contributions were not accepted. I did a new CSS to increase
readability on the site. I've also contributed to the Audacity-wiki.
Do you mind saying what was not accepted? Although linuxaudio.org hosts
ladspavst, it is not administrated by the linuxaudio.org personnel, but by
Tim Orford. Still, in the ongoing effort to consolidate resources, it is
concerning to hear that community efforts are being discouraged...
Best wishes,
Ico
6:30 p.m.
On Sun, 2006-12-10 at 16:17 -0500, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote:
Don't put too much weight into that, as stated, all I did was a CSS-file
that changed the colours and spacings for the tables at ladspavst... I
posted it using the feedback-link on the page and included my email. It
is very possible that the message didn't even get through..
Facts are:
1. I posted my CSS-file on the ladspavst.linuxaudio.org site
2. I did not get an answer, and
3. nothing has yet happened to the site
As Samuel L. Jackson said in The Long Kiss Goodnight, "when you make an
assumption, you make an ass out of you, and -umption." But I assumed
that my contribution to the site was not accepted. No hard feelings. :)
Regarding the webmastering, I just might be interested, but I'm not sure
that I can put in the effort required. I am of the opinion that the
Linux audio community should gain from having a consistent layout on the
sites, perhaps even a set of prominent links like for instance the
OSDL-sites. This would require some serious work. How many people are
involved today?
Regards,
Mathias
I've tried
that approach with for instance ladspavst.linuxaudio.org.
However, my contributions were not accepted. I did a new CSS to increase
readability on the site. I've also contributed to the Audacity-wiki.
Do you mind saying what was not accepted? Although linuxaudio.org hosts
ladspavst, it is not administrated by the linuxaudio.org personnel, but by
Tim Orford. Still, in the ongoing effort to consolidate resources, it is
concerning to hear that community efforts are being discouraged...
7:49 p.m.
Regarding the webmastering, I just might be
interested, but I'm not sure
that I can put in the effort required. I am of the opinion that the
Linux audio community should gain from having a consistent layout on the
sites, perhaps even a set of prominent links like for instance the
OSDL-sites. This would require some serious work. How many people are
involved today?
Linuxaudio.org has a small active staff and until very recently it was
predominantly a one-man show. I am hoping to change this as for one I am
really getting burned out and two, I want to utilize my energy on other
pressing and likely more important matters, such as incorporation of the
organization as a non-profit entity and fund-raising. Unfortunately, even
though we had a successful first round of recruiting volunteers, we are
hardly at a point where I can say linuxaudio.org has adequate staffing.
Regarding consistency, I am very much interested in that but putting some
more thought into it (which was in part inspired by the discussion on the
consortium list), I feel like total standardization may not be a good idea
not only because some of the consolidated websites' webmasters do not feel
inclined to do so, but also because we want the consortium to also reflect
the freedom and variety Linux audio offers. Hence, standardization as such
will likely come in something more subtle (i.e. logo plus perhaps some kind
of a subtle corner css menu thingy). That being said, we've not tackled this
yet, hence your contributions/ideas are more than welcome.
Best wishes,
Ico
12 Dec
12 Dec
1:17 p.m.
On Sun, Dec 10, 2006 at 11:14:46PM +0100, Mathias Friman wrote:
The feedback form on the site appears to be not working. Thanks for
bringing this to our attention.
The page could do with a freshen-up, so please send me the css file
via email :-)
--
Tim Orford
Do you mind
saying what was not accepted? Although linuxaudio.org hosts
Don't put too much weight into that, as stated, all I did was a CSS-file
that changed the colours and spacings for the tables at ladspavst... I
posted it using the feedback-link on the page and included my email. It
is very possible that the message didn't even get through.. 
10 Dec
10 Dec
8:39 p.m.
"Ivica Ico Bukvic" <ico(a)vt.edu> writes:
How about putting up a wiki.linuxaudio.org where you don't have to
friggin' register?;). I sure would put stuff in there.
--
Esben Stien is b0ef@e s a
http://www. s t n m
irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact
sip:b0ef@ e e
jid:b0ef@ n n
10:11 p.m.
"Ivica Ico Bukvic" <ico(a)vt.edu>
writes:
How about putting up a wiki.linuxaudio.org where you don't have to
friggin' register?;). I sure would put stuff in there.
In theory that would be great and personally have no problem with that (I am
not even aware of any *.linuxaudio.org sites that are under direct control
of the consortium and require registration), but then what is to prevent
rotten apples from mangling Wiki with their Viagra ads? Is registering
really that much of an overhead when you have an ability to keep the session
stored in your cookies?
Ico
11 Dec
11 Dec
7:26 p.m.
"Ivica Ico Bukvic" <ico(a)vt.edu> writes:
what is to prevent rotten apples from mangling
Nothing, but when a user comes to a page where the content is
destroyed, he just revert it to a previous revision.
Maybe you can also set max edits per day per ip, too.
Of course, a wiki where you have to register is better than no wiki,
but I won't sign up, because I believe that on a wiki, you should not
need to register. I also believe that the sporadic editing done by
random users is very good and adds very much.
I see myself in very many situations looking for a solution to a
problem, then seeing issues which I've already figured out, but the
wiki is not free, so I can't just change it; I have to register, but I
don't do it, mostly because I can't just register on every darn
wiki;).
When you have a wiki where you have to register, you often get one
person there and one person there, but you don't get the small edits
done by hundreds of people which is what a wiki is all about, in my
opinion.
--
Esben Stien is b0ef@e s a
http://www. s t n m
irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact
sip:b0ef@ e e
jid:b0ef@ n n
7:37 p.m.
If that is what you believe in, provided you have interest and/or time, I
would be more than happy to hook you up with the domain to get this thing
going. What many still struggle with is that Linuxaudio.org is not some kind
of a totalitarian self-proclaimed representative of LA world. Rather we
strive to become the representative (without the controlling part) through
friendly consolidation and adoption of resources. But we also have limited
manpower to do so, hence if you are interested and have the time to see this
through, let me know. Personally, I do not have the time to maintain a wiki
(especially one that would be prone to such abuse), but I can certainly
provide the tools to those who are willing.
Someone else replied to one of my e-mails mentioning how
portal.linuxaudio.org does not have all relevant linux-audio-* links. Well,
we provide all links to the sites that are under our domain. If your project
is relevant to our mission of consolidating resources and is interested in
joining the linuxaudio.org, then by all means contact me, I'll get you the
space, and your project will become a part of the portal/lao site. If
nothing else, you'll get free hosting (although one would hope you would be
looking for other benefits of consolidation as well)...
Best wishes,
Ico
-----Original Message-----
From: linux-audio-user-bounces(a)music.columbia.edu [mailto:linux-audio-
user-bounces(a)music.columbia.edu] On Behalf Of Esben Stien
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 8:14 PM
To: linux-audio-user(a)music.columbia.edu
Subject: Re: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers
"Ivica Ico Bukvic" <ico(a)vt.edu> writes:
what is to prevent rotten apples from mangling
Nothing, but when a user comes to a page where the content is
destroyed, he just revert it to a previous revision.
Maybe you can also set max edits per day per ip, too.
Of course, a wiki where you have to register is better than no wiki,
but I won't sign up, because I believe that on a wiki, you should not
need to register. I also believe that the sporadic editing done by
random users is very good and adds very much.
I see myself in very many situations looking for a solution to a
problem, then seeing issues which I've already figured out, but the
wiki is not free, so I can't just change it; I have to register, but I
don't do it, mostly because I can't just register on every darn
wiki;).
When you have a wiki where you have to register, you often get one
person there and one person there, but you don't get the small edits
done by hundreds of people which is what a wiki is all about, in my
opinion.
--
Esben Stien is b0ef@e s a
http://www. s t n m
irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact
sip:b0ef@ e e
jid:b0ef@ n n
8:58 p.m.
"Ivica Ico Bukvic" <ico(a)vt.edu> writes:
I do not have the time to maintain a wiki
That's a big point in having a wiki where you don't have to
register. You actually have no, absolutely zero, maintenance, because
the users removes the spam.
You install a wiki, then leave it be.
--
Esben Stien is b0ef@e s a
http://www. s t n m
irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact
sip:b0ef@ e e
jid:b0ef@ n n
10:33 p.m.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Esben Stien wrote:
"Ivica Ico Bukvic" <ico(a)vt.edu>
writes:
I think I'll try that approach. it would be interesting to plot how this
scales with the number of content-pages / visitor-count. But the result
depends highly on the enthusiasm of the community..
media upload could cause some headaches on an open system! anyway, all
the CAPTCHA and registration discussing is something that we should not
concern ourselves too much with. It is clear that we need a nice, clean
and quick solution, but it's a wiki's not a audio developer's job!
for my little experiment I use git as an additional revision control
(above|below) dokuwiki. Clearly nothing for end-users, but it might get
some command line freaks (like me) to review and merge changes.. and it
certainly can come in handy for removing pollution, or even taking a
copy with you for off-line edit (not that this would make any sense for
the linux-sound-index, but for articles it will).
#robin
I do not have the time to maintain a wiki
That's a big point in having a wiki where you don't have to
register. You actually have no, absolutely zero, maintenance, because
the users removes the spam.
You install a wiki, then leave it be. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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10:57 p.m.
That's a big point in having a wiki where you
don't have to
register. You actually have no, absolutely zero, maintenance, because
the users removes the spam.
You install a wiki, then leave it be.
We still need a scaffolding to propose structure as well as at least one
example documentation which will serve as a reference. Design is another
issue as vanilla Wiki pages are plain ugly. Hence, I am not doing it unless
I have time to spare (which I don't) in order to do it right. You and others
are welcome to try...
Best wishes,
Ico
11:14 p.m.
On Monday 11 December 2006 21:42, Esben Stien wrote:
That's a big point in having a wiki where you
don't have to
register. You actually have no, absolutely zero, maintenance,
because the users removes the spam.
You install a wiki, then leave it be.
That's great with a wiki that has a wildly active userbase, like
Wikipedia. On any other wiki, what the spammers count on for
their business model is that people are not looking at the
recent changes page 20 times a day to delete Chinese search
engine bait. On a public site with a moderate pagerank and a
few hundred users making updates a few dozen times a day, like
the one I ran for Gambas documentation (it's still there, and
still called a wiki, but it's really a CMS with more structure
than a wiki) once they found it, it was totally out of hand.
Even with registration, if you're running any common kind of wiki
software, like Mediawiki or TWiki, there are thousands of bots
out there that will auto-register and post spam. You need a
CAPTCHA or email verification besides the registration.
And even if your site is as active as Wikipedia, that means the
site is big enough that it's going to need constant maintenance
anyway for non-content-related reasons.
The truth is that wikis, like gardens, need to be tended
constantly or they get vermin and weeds. In no way is it a "set
it and forget it" situation.
Rob
12 Dec
12 Dec
3:22 a.m.
tisdag 12 december 2006 04:09 skrev Rob:
On Monday 11 December 2006 21:42, Esben Stien wrote:
Why not just use Wikipedia as the main wiki? All support is already there. It
only needs LAU or LAD input.
Some work has already begun.
ref.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_audio_software
regards,
/bengan
That's a big point in having a wiki where you
don't have to
register. You actually have no, absolutely zero, maintenance,
because the users removes the spam.
You install a wiki, then leave it be.
That's great with a wiki that has a wildly active userbase, like
Wikipedia.
14 Dec
14 Dec
11:25 p.m.
Bengt Gördén <bengan(a)sunet.se> writes:
Why not just use Wikipedia as the main wiki?
It's an excellent idea and I've mentioned it before;). I'd like to
hear the the views of the person who created the new audio wiki and
some comment from Hans Fugal.
Is it possible to agree on this?, then have Ivica point to the
starting page of it on his site.
Do we really need three wikis' when there is no conflicting view?
--
Esben Stien is b0ef@e s a
http://www. s t n m
irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact
sip:b0ef@ e e
jid:b0ef@ n n
11:52 p.m.
On Fri, 2006-12-15 at 06:13 +0100, Esben Stien wrote:
Bengt Gördén <bengan(a)sunet.se> writes:
Same here. Why take on all that administrative work when Wikipedia will
do it for you?
Lee
Why not just use Wikipedia as the main wiki?
It's an excellent idea and I've mentioned it before;). 
12 Dec
12 Dec
7:15 a.m.
Rob wrote:
The truth is that wikis, like gardens, need to be
tended
constantly or they get vermin and weeds. In no way is it a "set
it and forget it" situation.
I kinda agree with you, but I don't think it's *that* bad. Have a look
at http://atte.dk/om-wiki/, which just sits there for months. I just
cleaned up one spam, but besides that have a look at recent changes...
It has a very simple anti-spam feature (that I wrote) which is described
here: http://atte.dk/om-wiki/AntiSpamFeature
--
peace, love & harmony
Atte
http://www.atte.dk | quintet: http://www.anagrammer.dk
| compositions: http://www.atte.dk/compositions
7:47 a.m.
On Tuesday 12 Dec 2006 11:15, Atte André Jensen wrote:
I kinda agree with you, but I don't think it's
*that* bad. Have a look
at http://atte.dk/om-wiki/
A wiki written in awk! I love it already. Wonder why I haven't heard of that
one before.
Is your anti-spam bit in the CVS tree, or otherwise available?
Chris
7:55 a.m.
Chris Cannam wrote:
Is your anti-spam bit in the CVS tree, or otherwise
available?
Yes, look here:
http://atte.dk/awkiawki/DownloadArea
--
peace, love & harmony
Atte
http://www.atte.dk | quintet: http://www.anagrammer.dk
| compositions: http://www.atte.dk/compositions
6:46 p.m.
Em Seg, 2006-12-11 às 22:09 -0500, Rob escreveu:
On Monday 11 December 2006 21:42, Esben Stien wrote:
of course you have to add content, but the purpose of a wiki is to not
need a registration, at least this is the way i see a wiki, you dont
care for spammers, if it is getting really abused you will have to find
a way to block off course, or even let it be, but i see wikis and wikis,
and having to registrate to edit it is pointless imo.
That's a big point in having a wiki where you
don't have to
register. You actually have no, absolutely zero, maintenance,
because the users removes the spam.
You install a wiki, then leave it be.
That's great with a wiki that has a wildly active userbase, like
Wikipedia. On any other wiki, what the spammers count on for
their business model is that people are not looking at the
recent changes page 20 times a day to delete Chinese search
engine bait. On a public site with a moderate pagerank and a
few hundred users making updates a few dozen times a day, like
the one I ran for Gambas documentation (it's still there, and
still called a wiki, but it's really a CMS with more structure
than a wiki) once they found it, it was totally out of hand.
Even with registration, if you're running any common kind of wiki
software, like Mediawiki or TWiki, there are thousands of bots
out there that will auto-register and post spam. You need a
CAPTCHA or email verification besides the registration.
And even if your site is as active as Wikipedia, that means the
site is big enough that it's going to need constant maintenance
anyway for non-content-related reasons.
The truth is that wikis, like gardens, need to be tended
constantly or they get vermin and weeds. In no way is it a "set
it and forget it" situation.
Rob
10 Dec
10 Dec
8:43 p.m.
"Ivica Ico Bukvic" <ico(a)vt.edu> writes:
fora.linuxaudio.org would also be a good idea. New users coming in are
most likely to be familiar with web forums, but die hard GNU people
generally despise web forums, so put up a gateway, so that we may
interact with the new users from a mailing list.
Also, for GNU audio applications, why is there no link to the Audio
and MIDI software wiki from there?.
--
Esben Stien is b0ef@e s a
http://www. s t n m
irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact
sip:b0ef@ e e
jid:b0ef@ n n
9:43 p.m.
Esben Stien wrote:
fora.linuxaudio.org would also be a good idea. New
users coming in are
most likely to be familiar with web forums, but die hard GNU people
generally despise web forums,
Thats sounds like me.
so put up a gateway, so that we may
interact with the new users from a mailing list.
I have never seen one of these gateways work at all well. I susbscribe
to about 5 mailing lists that push froum posts onto the mailing lists
and for all of those I end up adding a procmail rule to /dev/null the
forum posts. The main problem with these forum posts is that they
don't thread properly, don't quote context and the quality of the posts
is well below that of the people who actually bother to subscribe to the
lists.
There was one other mailing list where I actually unsubscribed from the
list because the forum posts screwed the whole thing up too badly.
Erik
--
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
Erik de Castro Lopo
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armour to
lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores
the fact that it was he who, by peddling second-rate technology, led them
into it in the first place. - Douglas Adams in Guardian, 25-Aug-95
10:14 p.m.
fora.linuxaudio.org would also be a good idea. New
users coming in are
most likely to be familiar with web forums, but die hard GNU people
generally despise web forums, so put up a gateway, so that we may
interact with the new users from a mailing list.
Please pardon my ignorance, but by fora do you mean a plural of forum? If
so, I have absolutely no problem with that provided we have enough interest
among the community to make it worthwhile and as long as I am not who has to
implement/maintain it. If so, the consortium will gladly provide
space/account for the maintainer.
Also, for GNU audio applications, why is there no link
to the Audio
and MIDI software wiki from there?.
Which wiki?
Best wishes,
Ico
10:37 p.m.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote:
it must be. at least that's correct Latin.
I agree with Eric's that forums (English plural) usually lower the
quality of posts dramatically. though this is not true for blogs (and
comments - well most of them - good example is the php manual) point
is: there are many good things (TM) but no clear solution to merge
mailing lists, web discussions, RSS feeds, docbook,.. you name it. at
least none that would not involve major human resources.. hope you can
prove me wrong on this.
robin
fora.linuxaudio.org would also be a good idea. New users coming in are
most likely to be familiar with web forums, but die hard GNU people
generally despise web forums, so put up a gateway, so that we may
interact with the new users from a mailing list.
Please pardon my ignorance, but by fora do you mean a plural of forum? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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11 Dec
11 Dec
7:32 p.m.
"Ivica Ico Bukvic" <ico(a)vt.edu> writes:
do you mean a plural of forum?
Well, a mailing list is also a forum, so I thought maybe fora.* could
be the portal for all web forums and mailing lists, but that's
irrelevant, really.
the consortium will gladly provide space/account for
the maintainer.
It's true that I have never set up such a web forum / mailing list
gateway; I've only seen the code, but that was some years ago, so it
should be working by now;). I just think it's a good idea and hope
someone has done this before.
--
Esben Stien is b0ef@e s a
http://www. s t n m
irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact
sip:b0ef@ e e
jid:b0ef@ n n
10 Dec
10 Dec
5:20 p.m.
Forgot to mention that Linuxaudio.org is still looking for more webmasters
and/or maintainers, so if you feel like you have the time and energy to
contribute to one of our missions which is to consolidate linux audio
resources, I would strongly encourage you (and others!) to please contact
me.
Best wishes,
Ico
12 Dec
12 Dec
12:53 p.m.
Mathias Friman wrote:
So how do I contribute to your Linux Audio User Guide? I really like the
idea, and some of the things on the site. I'd like to suggest some
improvements though. I'll do that in a private email instead of on the
list, if you are interested?
Your more than welcome to send feedback, suggestions and contributions...
--
Patrick Shirkey - Boost Hardware Ltd.
Http://www.boosthardware.com
Http://lau.linuxaudio.org - The Linux Audio Users guide
========================================
"Anything your mind can see you can manifest physically, then it will
become reality" - Macka B
11 Dec
11 Dec
5 p.m.
On Sun, 2006-12-10 at 10:31 +0100, Mathias Friman wrote:
The intellectual capacity and the knowledge is here.
I'd be happy to
compile something like this, I even like to write, but I need some
material to start from. And you guys are the experts.
fair enough. there are multiple levels of complexity in usage, and linux
audio users should not have to deal with the lower ones.
we're still at an early stage.
--
Leonard Ritter
-- Freelance Art & Logic
-- http://www.leonard-ritter.com
2:20 a.m.
I think the only thing that keeps people from using Linux for audio
work is the interfaces of the programs, and to a lesser extent that of
the OS. That's the only thing that is added with each new blockbuster
version of the commercial apps. A few algorithms here and there is
nothing special. It's the ability to have half of this pane and half
of that, or edit two things at once, or hide tracks, or add nodes to
an envelope superimposed over the track, that makes people's work time
more efficient.
Actually I lied: the other thing keeping people from using Linux for
serious audio work is that there's no one to yell at when something
doesn't work.
On 12/9/06, Tim Howard <tdhoward(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hello,
It seems that there is a general sense of frustration among the
linux audio community with attracting more developers, users, etc. to
start using Linux for serious audio work.
The thing that has been frustrating me lately is that there are
developers that are offering "free" (as in free beer) software, but
they seem to have no interest in a GPL release for Linux! (For
example, VST plugins like Ambience, GSnap, etc.) Maybe I'm just
stupid, but that doesn't make sense to me. Unless it is simply due to
their unfamiliarity with Linux programming, and the thought of
maintaining support for another OS...
So I was wondering if there was any ongoing "official" effort to
pull these developers over to the light side. Would a bounty help
persuade them? Any thoughts?
-TimH
--
"Far and away the best prize that life has to offer is the chance to
work hard at work worth doing."
-Theodore Roosevelt
12 Dec
12 Dec
1:26 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers
As we say the biggest obstacle to the linux audio community is a lot
bigger than programming.
What we are essentially doing is introducing a gift economy in a world
of barter economy.
I'm a big fan of futurist Jacques Fresno, who advocates just that; a
world where barter is unnecessary, because producers of crops and grain
and builders and weavers all are so effective and so wise they have
found a way to sustain all the population without using barter,
essentially the same way free software is distributed.
So the long run solution to the free audio problem is to persuade
everyone in our society to provide whatever he or her does for free and
find ways to make it accessible to everyone who wants it, and to make
the same efforts today's marketers do to communicate to people why they
should want it.
The mid term solution is to learn to attract money to the point where
linux audio software can be developed full time.
There is a marketer called Joe Vitale (http://www.mrfire.com) who wrote
a lot of books about P.T. Barnum. It was Barnum's recipe to offer
something for free, and then make money on the way there. So what we
need is to find a way to make free software development a lucrative
thing to do.
Damn Small Linux seem to be quite successful at that. So does, of
course, the Mozilla foundation.
I believe we need to treat free software like a commercial product, with
the same vigor in promotion as in production; only that we divide our
sales process in two. First we persuade our potential customer to use
our product... then we persuade the person to donate. The whole
difference is that we don't threaten people who decide not to donate but
instead use our persuasion skills.
It can be done.
Carlo... Proposing not 'financed open source development' or 'a business
which also produces open source software' but a complete fusion of and
bridge between the two worlds as stepping stones towards a free society
where this whole discussion is completely unnecessary because the
problem has already been constructively solved.
9 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers
Carlo Capocasa wrote:
So the long run solution to the free audio problem is
to persuade
everyone in our society to provide whatever he or her does for free and
find ways to make it accessible to everyone who wants it, and to make
the same efforts today's marketers do to communicate to people why they
should want it.
Why don't you start by persuading yourself to provide whatever you do
for free, etc? It's easy to insist that others should do free work for
you. But are you ready to do full time hard work for free for the others?
The mid term solution is to learn to attract money to
the point where
linux audio software can be developed full time.
Brilliant idea. Someone else should pay to somebody else so that you can
get Linux audio software for free. What about paying for the software
yourself?
About the original subject: IMHO the only way to attract more Linux
audio developers is paying for the software. Money is the reason why 90%
of people do any work. Practically all professional audio software
developers do they work for Win/Mac because the _paying_ customers use
them. Linux audio software is being developed by amateurs because there
is no market for professional developers.
Best regards,
Hannu
1:30 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers
Hannu Savolainen wrote:
About the original subject: IMHO the only way to attract more Linux
audio developers is paying for the software. Money is the reason why 90%
of people do any work. Practically all professional audio software
developers do they work for Win/Mac because the _paying_ customers use
them. Linux audio software is being developed by amateurs because there
is no market for professional developers.
By amatuers, do you mean unpaid?
This is the second time in the past couple of months you have referred
to the wider Linux Audio Developers community as amatuers. I'm wondering
if it is an ESL thing or if you truly believe that we are all amatuers?
Cheers.
--
Patrick Shirkey - Boost Hardware Ltd.
Http://www.boosthardware.com
Http://lau.linuxaudio.org - The Linux Audio Users guide
========================================
"Anything your mind can see you can manifest physically, then it will
become reality" - Macka B
2:45 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers
On 12/12/06, Hannu Savolainen <hannu(a)opensound.com> wrote:
Linux audio software is being developed by amateurs
because there
is no market for professional developers.
I know a few devs here who will be extremely happy to be called
amateurs. Moreover, the company I work for would be very happy to have
such amateurs as employees...
__________________
Marc-Olivier Barre,
Markinoko.
15 Dec
15 Dec
11:40 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers
I know a few devs here who will be extremely happy to
be called
amateurs. Moreover, the company I work for would be very happy to have
such amateurs as employees...
I would like to point out that the root meaning of 'amateur' is 'someone
who loves doing what he does', and is not inherently an indicator of
quality.
Quality comes from investing a lot of time and effort, and when that is
eaten away by stuff that's 'not fun but pays well', amateur products
become less desirable.
So the solution to this dilemma is to make the donations model work well
enough that anyone who writes truly good software and gives it away can
earn enough to survive and get what they want. We can do this by
instilling into the public the thought that they should a) use free
software and b) donate significant amounts of money after using it. We
can simply do this by repeating the message over and over again at every
opportunity, and repeat it to ourselves as well until we believe in it
enough.
Thus is created new 'social norms', like giving lots of money to free
software developers. It's been done before, we can do it too.
Carlo
11:31 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers
So the long
run solution to the free audio problem is to persuade
everyone in our society to provide whatever he or her does for free and
find ways to make it accessible to everyone who wants it, and to make
the same efforts today's marketers do to communicate to people why they
should want it.
Why don't you start by persuading yourself to provide whatever you do
for free, etc? It's easy to insist that others should do free work for
you. But are you ready to do full time hard work for free for the others? Brilliant idea. Someone else should pay to somebody
else so that you can
get Linux audio software for free. What about paying for the software
yourself?
'Attracting money' refers to advertising revenue, sales of
merchandising, and donations, which would pour in from people who
are grateful for getting my music for free. My productive contribution
comes from composing, arranging and producing the music, as well
as marketing it. As money comes in, a significant portion goes to the
developers in the form of donations.
About the original subject: IMHO the only way to
attract more Linux
audio developers is paying for the software. Money is the reason why 90%
of people do any work. Practically all professional audio software
developers do they work for Win/Mac because the _paying_ customers use
them. Linux audio software is being developed by amateurs because there
is no market for professional developers.
I agree 100% with what you are saying, but I disagree that paying for
the software 'per unit' is a good idea because it kills network effects
and fosters competition.
My suggestion is to MAKE the donations model work through a dual selling
process: First you sell your user on the idea of using your software,
and THEN you sell your user on the idea of donating. That second sales
process takes the place of downright charging, and is a proper (if
challenging, until you get good at it) replacement for enforcing
intellectual property rights, which is simply impractical in the world
of infinite replicability that we have on the Internet.
I appreciate your comments, Hainu; I really think free software can be
much more than it is right now for the good of society, and I have
specific ideas on how to accomplish this, an I am infinitely grateful to
anyone who will take these ideas into consideration.
Have a great day!
Carlo
5:41 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers
On Friday 15 December 2006 10:31, Carlo Capocasa wrote:
This is an intermediate plan on the way to my vision
of a
society where money is no longer necessary because people
trust they will be able to sustain themselves and work for the
satisfaction of accomplishing what they want to.
The problem with utopian visions is that they almost never take
into account the people who want to accomplish nothing more than
having a beer and watching American Idol. And I have known A
LOT of people like that, sadly enough.
Rob
23 Dec
23 Dec
2 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers
The problem with utopian visions is that they almost
never take
into account the people who want to accomplish nothing more than
having a beer and watching American Idol. And I have known A
LOT of people like that, sadly enough.
My friend, do you really think I will let something like that stop me?
Because the city has not been built yet, do you think it will never be
built? What about the city you are LIVING IN RIGHT NOW? Do you think
somebody built that? And do you think someone envisioned it before it
was built, or did the builders just start randomly digging around and
laying bricks on each other until mysteriously this city around you formed?
George Orwell is a "Utopian" vision. It's happening right now. That's
proof that visions can be created areal with enough determination, and I
will pursue the vision of a free society as long as I still have a drop
of blood in me.
YOU ARE READING THIS PIECE OF NEWS on part of a "Utopian" vision. Ever
heard of a guy called Richard Stallman? Is you enjoying free software a
Utopian vision? So if people just want to watch American Idol, who is
Richard Stallman, nobody?
How about Linus Torvalds. Who is he, nobody? Or is he somebody after all
but mysteriously hacks the Linux kernel dreading it while all he really
wants to do is watch American Idol?
I'll tell you why people watch American Idol, it's because SOMEBODY
ENVISIONED THEM THAT WAY who doesn't have their best interests at heart.
It takes a lot of strength to start believing you can have your own
visions while everyone is discouraging you. Of course. That's why there
is people like me here, which is probably why you wrote this reply in
the first place, unconsciously. So I'm telling you now: You can do
anything you like. You can! You can! You can change people, break the
spell. You can tell people that they don't have to watch American Idol.
Obviously not all of them will want to listen to you, but some will. So
instead of whining why people watch American Idol, invite them over for
dinner and talk to them about your vision for a free society. And guess
what, you're going to be the one who will MAKE that society, because of
your influence on other people. Do you really think that you, speaking
with confidence and authority, has less impact on people than CNN?
That's what CNN is, people speaking with confidence and authority on a
DAMN TELEVISION. You can do better than that! Just learn everything you
can about free societies and start *living that way*, and start
preaching it to people day and night, and see what happens.
I need all the help I can get in creating this change in the world. I
need everyone's help. I need YOUR HELP. Help me, Rob! I can't do it all
alone, but with you I stand half a chance. Come on and help me with this
vision! Think about it. All this technology that's in the vaults
everywhere, freely available. Free food. Free shelter. Free clothes.
Free toys. Free rides. Free everything. Free USB gadgets, for chrissake!
Somebody has to start. That's you. That's us. Please help.
Carlo
2:42 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers
On Sat, 2006-12-23 at 18:54 +0100, Carlo Capocasa wrote:
Somebody has to start. That's you. That's us.
Please help.
Exhausted, Carlo ended his speech and looked around. The crowd stared at
him quietly. Noone spoke. The mood was tense. Then, a single clap of
hands. Another one. Now two people were clapping slowly. Three. A dozen.
The sound turned into a small crackling campfire, amplifying, and now it
was like a wildfire, a widespread applause, which culminated in a rush
of the ocean, waving back and forth through the audience. The people
stood up, cheered and whistled. Carlo was speechless. A tear escaped his
eye.
--
Leonard Ritter
-- Freelance Art & Logic
-- http://www.leonard-ritter.com
3:44 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Carlo's vision, was Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers
Leonard Ritter wrote:
On Sat, 2006-12-23 at 18:54 +0100, Carlo Capocasa
wrote:
:)
But at the core of it, Carlo describes the spirit that motivated me to
get into Linux in the first place. By the late 1980s it was already
apparent to me that Microsoft's design philosophies had little or
nothing to do with where I wanted to go and what I wanted to do with
computers. And the Mac was the "computer for the rest of us" only if you
could afford it. By the early 1990s I felt trapped by design decisions
that simply cut out my accustomed work methods, and discovering Linux
was like finding a new home world.
Recently a correspondent asked if I was a programmer. I replied that I'm
a musician who learned something about programming when he discovered
the value of the computer to a musician. I'm interested in realms of new
possibilities, and Linux has consistently offered such possibilities.
I agree with Carlo, I believe that Linux's political aspects are
extremely important, if only because Linux represents a wholly other
approach to the creation, distribution, and use of computer software.
The approach certainly appeals to my sense of liberty and freedom, and
as a tool for empowerment it's an inestimable gift (ditto for the great
work of RMS and the GNU project). I'm keen on self-reliance, I hate
being told what to do (i.e. unquestionable authoritarianism), and I like
high-quality software tools. As it happens, only Linux feels comfortable
enough for me.
It's pretty easy to parody Carlo's plea. That's okay, I think Leonard
was having fun, his reply brought a smile to my face, and it reminded me
that "If men did not laugh at it, it would not be the Tao". We got a
good thing growing with Linux, but we do have to tend to it, else it
withers and dies. Me, I'm not too worried. After all, Leonard is himself
one of the newer Linux audio software programmers, and his work too
continues the great tradition of GPL'd open-source and freely available
software. I don't mind if the ranks aren't suddenly ballooning in
numbers, I see a few new names per year getting into the fray.
When I was active in co-ops I heard a lot about the theory of radiant
change. This theory posited that large-scale social reforms weren't
really possible with our currently entrenched systems (schools,
governments, churches), but that an individual's Right Action would
itself light the way for others to consider their motivations. I'm not
temperamentally well-suited for groups anyway, so the theory sits well
with me. I have tried to light some distance on the way, just as so many
others have done for me. Personally, this is how I'll continue to
contribute to Carlo's utopia. Do I imagine that I'll really see things
change as I'd like them to change ? Oh no, I have no illusions about the
enormity of the task. But to paraphrase Nietzsche, it's better to leap
and fall than to simply back away from the abyss of challenge.
Peace out, and a happy holiday season to everyone.
Best,
dp
Somebody has to start. That's you. That's
us. Please help.
Exhausted, Carlo ended his speech and looked around. The crowd stared at
him quietly. Noone spoke. The mood was tense. Then, a single clap of
hands. Another one. Now two people were clapping slowly. Three. A dozen.
The sound turned into a small crackling campfire, amplifying, and now it
was like a wildfire, a widespread applause, which culminated in a rush
of the ocean, waving back and forth through the audience. The people
stood up, cheered and whistled. Carlo was speechless. A tear escaped his
eye.
4:03 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Carlo's vision, was Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers
On Sat, 2006-12-23 at 14:48 -0500, Dave Phillips wrote:
By the early 1990s I felt trapped by design decisions
that simply cut out my accustomed work methods, and discovering Linux
was like finding a new home world.
and through linux, i learned that my frustrations with the task of
programming were deeply rooted in the platforms design.
It's pretty easy to parody Carlo's plea.
That's okay, I think Leonard
was having fun, his reply brought a smile to my face, and it reminded me
that "If men did not laugh at it, it would not be the Tao".
i was merely trying to appreciate his writing truthfully. to simply
agree with it would not suffice. :)
Peace out, and a happy holiday season to everyone.
the same to you and everyone, and especially you, carlo. i sent your
posting around. i believe that it sums up pretty well why i'm doing what
i'm doing.
--
Leonard Ritter
-- Freelance Art & Logic
-- http://www.leonard-ritter.com
5:21 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Carlo's vision, was Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers
It's pretty easy to parody Carlo's plea.
That's okay, I think Leonard
was having fun, his reply brought a smile to my face, and it reminded me
that "If men did not laugh at it, it would not be the Tao". We got a
You know, I didn't think Leonard was laughing at me. Well a part of me
did, but it'll know better soon :)
Thanks for your support, Dave. And thank you so much for your tireless
work in creating the linux audio community. Yeah, you have given me,
more than you can imagine. I can sit down and work with computers who
actually like me. Working with windows I felt my computer more puts up
with me than likes me. But with linux... and XFCE... and the realtime
patches... and the community... and jack... and Zyn... and Om...
You know, all of this was possible fully thanks to you. You know, not
partly thanks to you and party because of Richard Stallman, but fully
thanks to you and fully thanks to Richard Stallman, who I consider to be
arms of the same intelligence.
So now it's my turn. You have given me tools, and I create music. Which
also happens to be a tool for people to widen their horizon and enjoy
themselves. Which in turn will let them some of them feed us, and some
of them create candles that smell like Broccoli for the benefit of
humankind.
I love the Tao. Thanks for your attention Dave! I hope I will get
laughed at constantly from now on.
Carlo
3:39 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers
On Saturday 23 December 2006 12:54, Carlo Capocasa wrote:
How about Linus Torvalds. Who is he, nobody? Or is he
somebody
after all but mysteriously hacks the Linux kernel dreading it
while all he really wants to do is watch American Idol?
I think you misread my post. It wasn't a critique of you having
a vision, it was a specific critique of one aspect of that
vision. Specifically, your vision requires something from the
people who would rather just sit there and watch American Idol
than do something constructive. You propose a:
society where money is no longer necessary because
people
trust they will be able to sustain themselves and work for the
satisfaction of accomplishing what they want to.
What about the people who just want to sit there and watch
American Idol? What work would they do to provide their
satisfaction and how would it differ from what they do under
capitalism?
Or are they simply irrelevant and expendable in your vision? Do
their desires just not matter? Because I'm pretty sure they're
a majority of the population, at least in the US.
Leaving behind the people whose greatest desire is to be able to
do nothing but consume entertainment, what about the people
whose passion is creating little cat toys out of Q-tips, or
candles that smell exactly like broccoli? Doesn't the buck stop
there as far as value goes? Have you ever considered how
horrifying your vision is when applied to fields like law
enforcement? "Well, no, I don't get paid, but I have the
satisfaction of carrying this gun wherever I like." And have
you ever met a farmer, who was not independently wealthy prior
to his starting a farm, who tended a gigantic farm to feed
thousands of people just for the satisfaction?
As for me, sure, I'd be ecstatic to work 40 or 60 hours a week on
free software and then be able to go somewhere and just get a
stack of frozen pizzas as part of a "gift culture". But I'd be
working on the projects I cared about. And the only reason I'm
writing a ZIP file component for Gambas is because I need it to
write an ODF component which will be useful to several of my
clients who pay me a lot of money. In the absence of the
requirement that I serve someone else for a living, that 40 to
60 hours would be spend writing a game called something
like "Penguins and Balloons" that almost no one but me would
care about. In fact, it might very well just be spent playing
other people's games on the Wii, if the Wii were even possible
in a system without competition.
The problem is not your vision. The problem is that unlike free
software or city building, your vision makes demands on
everyone, whether they share your vision or not.
first place, unconsciously. So I'm telling you
now: You can do
anything you like. You can! You can!
I do! I do!
Free food. Free shelter. Free clothes. Free toys. Free
rides.
OOooh, Free Willy!
Rob
4:21 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers
I think you misread my post. It wasn't a critique
of you having
a vision, it was a specific critique of one aspect of that
vision. Specifically, your vision requires something from the
people who would rather just sit there and watch American Idol
than do something constructive. You propose a:
Well, actually not so much. I simply don't only have a vision for
myself, but also for other people. The whole world, in fact.
What about the people who just want to sit there and
watch
American Idol? What work would they do to provide their
satisfaction and how would it differ from what they do under
capitalism?
I believe the people who want to just sit there and watch American Idol
are simply picking the best of the options someone else is giving them,
because the happen not to believe they can create anything they imagine.
In fact, the concept of creating your own stuff is so alien they don't
even think about it that way. But, if someone came along and made a few
other suggestions, and be it as messages interwoven in American Idol for
starters, over time that phenomenon would become irrelevant, if only
because there's enough farmers feeding them who don't mind feeding them
for free because the farmer has an awareness it isn't necessary to get
compensation directly from them so he can get what HE wants to consume.
Or are they simply irrelevant and expendable in your
vision? Do
their desires just not matter? Because I'm pretty sure they're
a majority of the population, at least in the US.
No, of course not! As long as they watch American Idol, they watch
American Idol, and that's ok. It doesn't mean you point a gun at them
and force them to march with a flag that says 'Linux Audio'. But it does
mean you find ways of raising their awareness that they don't have to
nine-to-five to survive, which will naturally have the effect of them
wanting to, for example, listen to music created by free spirited
musicians, which is what linux audio is all about. (The software's just
software, but the people who made it are free, to varying degrees).
Leaving behind the people whose greatest desire is to
be able to
do nothing but consume entertainment, what about the people
whose passion is creating little cat toys out of Q-tips, or
candles that smell exactly like broccoli? Doesn't the buck stop
there as far as value goes? Have you ever considered how
horrifying your vision is when applied to fields like law
enforcement? "Well, no, I don't get paid, but I have the
satisfaction of carrying this gun wherever I like." And have
you ever met a farmer, who was not independently wealthy prior
to his starting a farm, who tended a gigantic farm to feed
thousands of people just for the satisfaction?
I have a very specific theory on how the Universe works. I say that
unless you are strongly subconsciously afraid of the Vigilante, you will
not be of interest to the Vigilante. Same thing for the criminal. So if
somebody enjoys eating babies, unless you have something of that nature
going on in your psyche you will have nothing to do with that situation,
and if you do, somehow talking that person into a more enlightening way
of life might just what it takes for YOU to get rid of that part of
yourself.
On the other hand, law enforcement the way we have it is no better. It's
not like cops are there to help you as much as people demand them
because they are a way of feeling secure. When the underlying insecurity
goes, the necessity for cops goes as well, as well as all government.
'Manifestation of the collective insecurity of people' is a great
definition of government, as far as I'm concerned.
As for me, sure, I'd be ecstatic to work 40 or 60
hours a week on
free software and then be able to go somewhere and just get a
stack of frozen pizzas as part of a "gift culture". But I'd be
working on the projects I cared about. And the only reason I'm
writing a ZIP file component for Gambas is because I need it to
write an ODF component which will be useful to several of my
clients who pay me a lot of money. In the absence of the
requirement that I serve someone else for a living, that 40 to
60 hours would be spend writing a game called something
like "Penguins and Balloons" that almost no one but me would
care about. In fact, it might very well just be spent playing
other people's games on the Wii, if the Wii were even possible
in a system without competition.
I believe that when you abandon competition, so many resources are freed
up that nobody could care less if you play games all the time except
yourself. So what would happen is, over time you would lose interest in
all games except a very specific type, and then you'd notice you'd be
the most competent guy around to create that type of game because you've
been thinking about it most, and then you'd do it, for the pure joy of
making it, and for all the people who enjoy it.
And when are most basic problems (food, shelter, clothes, family) are
solved, and when no one's elbowing around and worrying whose logo is
written in the most places, that will happen a lot faster than it has
now. For example, rumours have it there is technology that can grow
crops at the speed of time-lapse video, that are shut down for reasons
of 'competitive advantage'. It is amazing how much technology that could
simply automate all our daily 'necessities' is being held back simply
because of 'competitive advantage'... or perhaps an even more sinister
reason, to keep control of people. When you get rid of that control, by
creating your own options in your mind, all this great stuff starts to
blossom, and time we NEED TO spend on things dwindles.
In other words, for a while we'd be working on free food and shelter and
clothes, but once that's all in place... And when there's nobody there
to destroy it that will happen very quickly... WHO COULD CARE LESS IF
YOU SIMPLY PLAY GAMES ALL DAY? Or create candles that smell like
Broccoli, for that matter, simply 'because you can'?
The problem is not your vision. The problem is that
unlike free
software or city building, your vision makes demands on
everyone, whether they share your vision or not.
Unlike, of course, capitalism, that places demands on absolutely nobody,
especially not young people who are dreaming of a life of fulfillment
and adventure.
What I'm talking about here is replacing SIXTEEN YEARS OF DRUDGINGLY
BORING SOUL-SUCKING 'EDUCATION' (more like detention to me) and then a
lifetime of drudgery and humiliation (if I'd be experiencing that,
American Idol'd be the first thing on my mind when I come home) with
about fifteen minutes a day of focused attention of an otherwise fun and
adventuresome life. Fifteen? Yep. Once you believe things are possible
and get rid of your fears and all things tend to speed up some.
OOooh, Free Willy!
Can be found at your local gay bar.
And if you help me the bar will be free as well.
Carlo
4:49 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers
On Saturday 23 December 2006 15:20, Carlo Capocasa wrote:
Those are demands of the existing system, and they do exist.
However, your vision involves its own system with its own as-yet
vaguely defined demands, plus the demands involved in throwing
out 5,000 years of barter and commerce, plus the demands
involved in dismantling governments, plus, I gather from your
last post, the demands involved in curing everyone on the planet
of various purported ailments of the subconscious.
And then, a century from now, after it's all implemented and
we're all "free", I give it about 25 seconds before some guy
somewhere tells some girl that he'll fix her leaky roof if only
she'll spread her legs for him, instantly bringing barter -- and
from there, capitalism -- back into the world. Maybe you could
breed the orgasm out of us to prevent that from happening, as
long as you've brought up Orwell.
Anyway, it seems a bit much just to get free music. I think
Stallman's vision -- that bits are free and no one pretends
they're the same as atoms -- is a little more workable.
Neither as free nor as much as I'd like, but that was actually a
Simpsons reference.
Rob
The problem is
not your vision. The problem is that unlike
free software or city building, your vision makes demands on
everyone, whether they share your vision or not.
Unlike, of course, capitalism, that places demands on
absolutely nobody, especially not young people who are
dreaming of a life of fulfillment and adventure. OOooh, Free
Willy!
Can be found at your local gay bar.
5:43 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers
Those are demands of the existing system, and they do
exist.
However, your vision involves its own system with its own as-yet
vaguely defined demands, plus the demands involved in throwing
out 5,000 years of barter and commerce, plus the demands
involved in dismantling governments, plus, I gather from your
last post, the demands involved in curing everyone on the planet
of various purported ailments of the subconscious.
Well, the ultimate is the demands simply going away. Actually, I'm going
for LESS demands, removing demands. I'll put it this way: When you have
a problem, you can either find a solution, or get rid of the cause of
the problem.
Dismantling governments is not the solution, but when nobody is
interested in security and authority any more, there will be no need for
them, and they will be no more.
Also, what I am suggesting is NOT throwing out barter and commerce; what
I am suggesting is REFINING barter and commerce. Commerce is a
refinement of barter; you produce value, and then you trade it, but you
trade it with anyone who has the money rather than only the people who
have what YOU want, hence you increase the size of the cake because
transactions that bring more value are possible.
We have now reached the point where the cost and the possibility of
abuse of the commercial system is getting higher than it's value, so a
new system kicks in, and that's gift economy. In the interim this means
that by giving something away you alter your psyche in a way that lets
other people instinctively give you more, proportionate to what you have
given, while in turn receiving stuff that kind of naturally makes you
want to give more, and that's where we really have an upward spiral.
And then, a century from now, after it's all
implemented and
we're all "free", I give it about 25 seconds before some guy
somewhere tells some girl that he'll fix her leaky roof if only
she'll spread her legs for him, instantly bringing barter -- and
from there, capitalism -- back into the world. Maybe you could
breed the orgasm out of us to prevent that from happening, as
long as you've brought up Orwell.
That is an assumption you are making, based on the fact that the guy
thinks sex is in scarce supply. I would theorize women hold sex in
scarce supply because men tend to hold affection and care in scarce
supply, so in the end there is some sort of collective belief in
scarcity that is the product of 'neme inheritence' or something like that.
The instant we STOP drawing our conclusions from 'what is' and START
drawing our conclusions from 'what could be', we have the power to
attain anything we like, like abundance in sex or pretty much anything.
Since nobody is just going to give to you in a world of scarcity, the
only way to create a world of abundance is to GIVE something. In my
case, this'll be music, or spreading my ideas over web forums. I know
plenty of people who write stuff like this and charge for it.
Anyway, it seems a bit much just to get free music. I
think
Stallman's vision -- that bits are free and no one pretends
they're the same as atoms -- is a little more workable.
You're simply not used to large-scale visions. I guess not to many of
your grade-school teachers have introduced you to them, now haven't they?
Well, the reason I wanted to expand on Stallman is that I would like to
integrate it with everything society is doing and how everything works
with us. I believe Atoms are free. People are free. Animals are free.
Goods and services, for that matter, are free. Talent is free.
Everything is free. Except if you chose otherwise, everyone has to make
that decision for his or herself, but I want that freedom to be
presented to everyone as an OPTION. And that's where you come in. Of
course, you would have to make it your own first, so for this you would
have to find some place that IS workable for you. You can have a big
vision and work in a small place. I can't go out farming and building
houses, but I can write songs about that.
You see, I'm simply taking a very simple principle, and applying it to
everything and all my choices. That brings me at odds with many
established practices, but it does make for more satisfaction in my
life. It's the classic deal between idealism and opportunism. What'll it
be for you, given you know both are equally difficult or easy?
Carlo
6:41 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Attracting more Linux audio developers
On Sat, 2006-12-23 at 22:43 +0100, Carlo Capocasa wrote:
The instant we STOP drawing our conclusions from
'what is' and START
drawing our conclusions from 'what could be', we have the power to
attain anything we like, like abundance in sex or pretty much anything.
the problem is, a lot of people believe they first have to figure out
the "is". and that is where they get stuck: in countless arguing about
who knows more and who has a better view of the world. either it is
competition of knowledge or ritual agreement (the later being in scarce
supply).
how many times have you heard sentences like "well that ain't how the
world runs." i assume that most people grow up eager to learn all the
memes, and then mistake the map for the territory. only the few who can
see through the deception (most of the time after a point where they
made a personal experience that contradicts popular belief and
invalidates a great source of fear - in other words, they got lucky) are
able to "hack the matrix", as the metaphor goes.
so, once you figured out what the world isn't, you know what's possible.
you arrive at "what could be", and it's more a question, isn't it?
isn't
it more a question of "what shall not be"? or both? a bug to fix and a
feature to implement?
then again, i assume you are aware that many people wish for things they
do not need (a big number on the bank account or mind-numbing gallons of
sex - no really, sounds good, but bears new issues). and eager to help,
the "bugs" they report are only minor annoyances, while bigger issues
are being worked around (gay marriage vs. global warming - no, not
related).
if i may cite the tao te-king freely, without these fools, we wouldn't
know what cleverness is. forget cleverness, and there will be no
foolishness.
still, shaping a perfect world in our minds and keeping to our ideals is
our only choice. the other choice would be a bitter attitude to life,
developing expectations of misfortune, in order to protect yourself from
the pain of being alive - and it slowly blinds one from the happier
aspects of existence. i work with people who carry such an attitude, and
they contribute to the darkness they seek to defend themselves from.
(although they jump on any train of idealism that is properly expressed
- they can be inspired!)
it is only when you allow the darkness to penetrate you, to crawl inside
you and make you angry, and bring you to tears, and make you fear, that
you can understand it.as long as you reject to understand it, you will
see it everywhere.
ideals are hope. following those ideals and understanding darkness is
love.
ok, i see we're just developing a cool OS and some funky audio apps
here. but i just can't live without the metaphysics ;)
--
Leonard Ritter
-- Freelance Art & Logic
-- http://www.leonard-ritter.com
13 Dec
13 Dec
8:10 a.m.
Any thoughts?
-TimH
I think the timing and market are ripe for someone to come along with
a complete, integrated Linux audio solution that "Just Plain Works",
with no setup fuss, no hassle/stress with drivers, etc.
In other words, if someone would set themselves up as a hardware
vendor exclusively catering to audio production work, and produced
completed systems that have everything on-board, working the way it
should work, with no fuss for the end user, there'd be more people
willing to take a look at using Linux for audio-related work.
As it stands right now, you have to be quite the hacker to get a
Linux-based studio up and running, and its not really fun.
Continually trying to keep up with the PC/Mac softsynth world is not
really pushing things out onto the edge of the tip, where Linux
traditionally thrives .. Personally, as a musician and as a
long-term, dedicated, Linux user, I'd like to see a more 'turnkey
hardware' approach to Linux audio. Imagine if you could (for
example), put a simple SD card in something like the GP2X and get
yourself a fully-functional hardware sampler/sequencer environment
with zero setup fuss .. this, to me, is the way forward for Linux
audio, and is one way to attract a lot more people to the Linux-audio
ideal..
--
;
Jay Vaughan
11:17 a.m.
On Wednesday 13 December 2006 7:09 am, Jay Vaughan wrote:
I think the timing and market are ripe for someone to
come along with
a complete, integrated Linux audio solution that "Just Plain Works",
with no setup fuss, no hassle/stress with drivers, etc.
Lionstracs Mediastation:
http://www.lionstracs.com/store/
11:40 a.m.
On 12/13/06, Greg Wilder <gregwilder(a)gregwilder.com> wrote:
On Wednesday 13 December 2006 7:09 am, Jay Vaughan
wrote:
Muse Receptor:
http://www.museresearch.com/
--
Josh Lawrence
http://www.hardbop200.com
I think the timing and market are ripe for
someone to come along with
a complete, integrated Linux audio solution that "Just Plain Works",
with no setup fuss, no hassle/stress with drivers, etc.
Lionstracs Mediastation:
http://www.lionstracs.com/store/
4:44 p.m.
On Wednesday 13 December 2006 07:09, Jay Vaughan wrote:
more 'turnkey hardware' approach to Linux
audio. Imagine if
you could (for example), put a simple SD card in something
like the GP2X and get yourself a fully-functional hardware
sampler/sequencer environment with zero setup fuss .. this, to
me, is the way forward for Linux audio, and is one way to
attract a lot more people to the Linux-audio ideal..
The GP2X is way more powerful than the PCs I was using 10 years
ago when I was most productive (using my Gravis soundcard and
Digital Orchestrator Pro under Windows, but also using early
versions of Timidity to render my MIDI files with no analog
generation, and Cool Edit for some pretty rudimentary mixing and
editing.) So this sort of thing should be possible.
My only question would be what the options for audio input are on
the GP2X as I'm not aware of it being a Firewire or USB host.
Sorry if you didn't mean the GP2X specifically, but I think its
inexpensive nature and relative availability make it almost
ideal for this sort of project. The Nintendo DS would be an
even better choice if it just had a little more oomph, since it
runs Linux too, is still cheaper and more widely available, and
has the touch screen for better input options. But since my
main computer back then was a P100 with 16MB of RAM, even the DS
isn't impossible to imagine using for a device like this.
Rob
15 Dec
15 Dec
10:06 a.m.
My only question would be what the options for audio
input are on
the GP2X as I'm not aware of it being a Firewire or USB host.
The GP2X docking station allows you to plug any USB device that you
want into it, and of course - whatever Linux 2.4.x supports, works:
http://www.gp32x.com/board/index.php?showtopic=33095&hl=breakout
Picture softsynth/sequencing/sampling/MIDI control center
applications on that hardware? Me too ..
--
;
Jay Vaughan
5:41 p.m.
On Friday 15 December 2006 09:05, Jay Vaughan wrote:
The GP2X docking station allows you to plug any USB
device
that you want into it, and of course - whatever Linux 2.4.x
supports, works:
Wow, when that thing comes out, I might have to get me a GP2X.
Chris McCormick's Pd port looks pretty sweet to me as well....
maybe sweeter than the "real" Pd.
Maybe the GP2X will end up being the portable composer tool I
always hoped the Zaurus would become.
Rob
17 Dec
17 Dec
12:39 a.m.
On Fri, Dec 15, 2006 at 04:37:10PM -0500, Rob wrote:
On Friday 15 December 2006 09:05, Jay Vaughan wrote:
Well, I don't know about that. It's a frankenstein version of the real
Pd (PDa thanks to Güenter Geiger) from a couple of versions ago, with
all floats turned into fixed-point, compiled by myself with all libs
statically linked in and a few internal Pd types that just don't seem
to work correctly.
That said it's pretty good for wicked hand held generative jams. My
group has used it in live performance once and it was good fun.
Best,
Chris.
-------------------
chris(a)mccormick.cx
http://mccormick.cx
The GP2X docking station allows you to plug any
USB device
that you want into it, and of course - whatever Linux 2.4.x
supports, works:
Wow, when that thing comes out, I might have to get me a GP2X.
Chris McCormick's Pd port looks pretty sweet to me as well....
maybe sweeter than the "real" Pd. 
18 Dec
18 Dec
4:44 a.m.
Hi everybody,
I've been lurking around for a time and this is my first post in the
list. English is not my mother language so please don't be so hard
with me if I look too rude :)
I just don't understand people who says that registering in a site
(wiki or whatever) is too much work... I think It's obvious that
cleaning spam by hand is way more work than simply fulfilling a form
with some personal data "once".
Of course we'll lose some anonymous edits but we gain tidiness and
precious time we can spent on real work.
OTOH I don't think there are enough linux audio users at this time to
gain from anonymous edits. There are more spammers for sure...
Just my two cents.
Saludosss
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15 Dec
15 Dec
7:53 a.m.
On Wed, Dec 13, 2006 at 01:09:05PM +0100, Jay Vaughan wrote:
Personally, as a musician and as a
long-term, dedicated, Linux user, I'd like to see a more 'turnkey
hardware' approach to Linux audio. Imagine if you could (for
example), put a simple SD card in something like the GP2X and get
yourself a fully-functional hardware sampler/sequencer environment
with zero setup fuss
While this is the opposite of what you're talking about, it could
potentially be used to build what you are talking about:
http://mccormick.cx/projects/gp2xPd/
Sorry, the word GP2X set off my plug-my-software alarm. :)
Chris.
-------------------
chris(a)mccormick.cx
http://mccormick.cx
10:11 a.m.
New subject: GP2XPd (was Re: [linux-audio-user] Attracting more Linux audio developers)
While this is the opposite of what you're talking
about, it could
potentially be used to build what you are talking about:
http://mccormick.cx/projects/gp2xPd/
Sorry, the word GP2X set off my plug-my-software alarm. :)
Oh, don't worry .. I'm fully aware of gp2xPd .. ;) Its one of the
things that makes this setup quite lovely:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tschuktschuk/203837189/in/set-7215759422006774…
... ;)
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Jay Vaughan
6636
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days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
64 comments
27 participants
participants (27)
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Atte André Jensen -
Bengt Gördén -
Brad Fuller -
Carlo Capocasa -
Chris Cannam -
Chris McCormick -
Chuckk Hubbard -
Dave Phillips -
Erik de Castro Lopo -
Esben Stien -
glauber alex dias prado -
Greg Wilder -
Hannu Savolainen -
Ivica Ico Bukvic -
Jay Vaughan -
Josh Lawrence -
Lee Revell -
Leonard Ritter -
Marc-Olivier Barre -
Mathias Friman -
Mike Taht -
Oscar -
Patrick Shirkey -
Rob -
Robin Gareus -
Tim Howard -
Tim Orford