WHAT??!?! i dont believe !!! my question is "LOOKS LIKE" not the same !!!!! here in brasil have list about linux-audio www.estudiolivre.org they can tell for you about some thinks in linux !! they send me some softwares to use live. and we are development software to use. and working to use just free software in music production and we have a free studio. i send my question to this list just to see if is a good list. BUT DONT !! sorry for my english. i will unsubscribe this list. On 4/25/05, Lee Revell <rlrevell(a)joe-job.com> wrote: -- Felipe Machado - Recife/PE 81-8805-8779

Felipe Machado wrote: I hope you haven't unscribed yet. I would tell you that there is quite a few applications that you may be able to use, I don't know your exact need. Please checkout: http://www.linux-sound.org/ http://ccrma.stanford.edu/planetccrma/software/packages.html -- Brad Fuller (408) 799-6124 ** Sonaural Audio Studios ** (408) 799-6123 West San Jose (408) 799-6124 Cambrian ________________________________ Hear us online: www.Sonaural.com

On Mon, 2005-25-04 at 22:35 -0300, Felipe Machado wrote: Don't let the ignorance of one unknown idiot turn you away from this list. If you want to get into Linux audio, this is the place you want to be. There are many of us here who are interested in (and develop, and use) live audio software on GNU/Linux systems. I use SooperLooper, Seq24, FreeWheeling, Om, and SuperCollider in a "live" context all the time. -DR-

Levi D. Burton wrote: I wish I could predict the future ;-) Ableton Live is a nice program. And, there are certainly areas of audio applications where Linux does not fare as well as Mac or Windows software today. Then again, there are a lot of applications on Linux that don't have a comparable match on Windows or Mac. So, if you need Ableton Live, yes: use that. In fact, find the application that you need first. And then purchase the OS/HW that you need to run that application (I don't know why people work the other way around.) Like Greg, I too work in the field, perhaps a bit differently. And, we use linux (and windows and mac) everyday. -- Brad Fuller (408) 799-6124 ** Sonaural Audio Studios ** (408) 799-6123 West San Jose (408) 799-6124 Cambrian ________________________________ Hear us online: www.Sonaural.com

On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 19:51:48 -0500 "Levi D. Burton" <ldb(a)puresimplicity.net> wrote: Here are a few links I have discovered for music. # Are there any programs for musicians in Linux? Audio-Quality-HOWTO for Linux http://www.linuxdj.com/audio/quality/ Ardour http://ardour.sourceforge.net/ Audacity http://audacity.sourceforge.net/ CSound http://www.csound.org/ Cecilia - GUI to CSound http://cecilia.sourceforge.net/ About Ceres3 http://www.music.columbia.edu/%7Estanko/About_Ceres3.html Manmut http://www.notam02.no/notam02/english.html MixMagic http://mixmagic.bengburken.net/ MiXViews http://www.create.ucsb.edu/%7Edoug/htmls/MiXViews.html Snd http://www-ccrma.stanford.edu/software/snd/ RipperX http://ripperx.sourceforge.net/ Rt Help Page http://www.music.princeton.edu/winham/PPSK/rthelp.html Sweep http://www.metadecks.org/software/sweep/index.html Xsox http://win2linux.net/xsox.html WaveSurfer http://www.speech.kth.se/wavesurfer/ Creating Audio CDs With Linux http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2001/01/05/record_cd.html -- Phil Our 2nd CD: http://www.cdbaby.com/naomisfancy Naomi's Fancy performances: http://naomisfancy.virtualave.net/schedule.html

On Tue, 2005-04-26 at 14:16 -0500, Levi D. Burton wrote: Please, let it go. You posted something inflammatory, and got the expected result. The system works. Let's move on to some productive discussion. What exactly led you to this opinion? Is there any specific app you found not to be reliable enough for live use? Lee

Greetings: Levi's response is what is known on Slashdot as a troll. It's uninformed and uninterested in being helpful. There's plenty of evidence now that Linux audio software is performance capable, often exceeding the performance stability of music software on either the Mac and Windows. I could back up my statements with links to the appropriate messages and forums, except that it is in the nature of a troll to be unconcerned with either the veracity of the troll itself and to be uninterested in actually learning anything contrary to the troll. I will suggest that Mr. Machado look at the Music Made With Linux section of the Linux soundapps pages and at Jan Weil's Linux audio blog, which includes a nice list of music made with Linux. Iain Duncan has been using the Linux version of Csound for performances lasting hours at a time, Ron Parker has been employing Ardour as the DAW of choice in his professional studio (Mirror Image Studios) for the past six months, and many other people on and off this list are using Linux daily for the music creation and production needs. I suggest that it's Mr. Burton who should unsubscribe, not Mr. Machado. I also suggest that calling someone an asshole in a response is just poor form, regardless how provocative the original statement. Mr. Revell does some outstanding work in Linux audio development, but I should think a little more civil response was in order. Sorry, Lee, I admire your work, and I understand the warmth of your reply, but was "asshole" really necessary ? We're going to get more and more people coming to us with questions like Felipe's, questions which are quite legitimate and want only a decent straightforward answer so the poster can proceed to make an informed decision. We won't convince anyone either by posting uninformed remarks a la Mr. Burton or by responding with name-calling (I agree with the pundit who stated that once we start calling each other names we've admitted we're done with any constructive dialog). I've lost count of the number of projects that "probably never will" be achieved by Linux developers, including such software as Ardour, Mozilla, and even Linux itself. Having just returned from the Linux audio conference I can confidently state that much Linux audio software is perfectly usable live, and it is most certainly capable of meeting some very demanding needs from some very demanding musicians (witness the concert series, both the composed shows and the improv sets). If that software works for you, fine, and if not, you can always return to your previous environment. You should really be most concerned about getting your work done. For many of us here, Linux audio software is precisely how we get our own work done. Best regards, Dave Phillips Levi D. Burton wrote:

My first reaction to Levi's response also was that he is a troll. But I changed my mind. I usually do not like such meta-debates but I will tell you why I changed my mind. First: he has subscribed to this mailing list for more than half a year and has used several audio applications on Linux. So "uninformed" does not really apply. He wrote: The only parts of that paragraph where I think disagreement is reasonable are the last four words ("and probably never will"). In his opinion there exists nothing for Linux comparable to Ableton Live now: so what? If someone thinks that there currently is something comparable to Ableton Live he or she should simply name it. Well, I have seen similar statements on this list which did not lead to angry attacks on the author. Maybe he has had some frustrating experiences? He did not tell us, which is bad, but I can see legitimate reasons to be cautious using any software live. One should also consider the original question posed by Felipe: Felipe explicitely asked for something which "looks like ableton live" and "can be used in a show" by a "group". Trolls usually have the intention to disrupt. I do not see that here. Cheers, Andreas

Thank you for understanding. When I hit "send", I sat back and thought to myself, "You know, I bet I'll be called a troll for this one...". And, I was right. Yes, I am ignorant. Yes, I can be an asshole. I agree with Andreas that saying "...and probably never will" might be a little unreasonable. And the live thing... Sure, some programs run very well for long periods of time, but the majority do not. I am not going to point my finger at specific software packages, sorry. And ok, I'm going to actually contribute something to the discussion.... These are the programs I would use live, if i were to only use linux software: Seq24 http://www.filter24.org/seq24/ Specimen http://www.gazuga.net/ Both are very stable and perform well. Will it be similar to Abletone Live? Probably not. Andreas Kuckartz wrote:

No, I am not saying you are not good programmers. I understand the situation between linux audio developers and commercial software developers. I understand your time is limited and theirs is not (well, to a point). I understand that commercial software developers have incentive for writing the apps (they are getting paid). I also understand that most linux audio software is a hobby for the developers. When I say "probably never will be..", my point is that commercial software developers simply have more time and resources. I am not saying they are more competent than a linux audio developer. I understand quite a bit more than most of you may think. Lee Revell wrote:

Andreas Kuckartz wrote: Let me know when Cakewalk Sonar and all the Native Instruments stuff goes open-source.

Abletons live is a bit more than switching on/off loops, which can be done with mentioned software very well right now. It got an incredible fast workflow in its UI and features. You can throw audio loops with different tempi and Live analyses and sync them with realtime timestretching. Although I have a problem with open source tend to doubling existing software instead inventing new stuff, I really would like to see simular approach in the open source Linux world. Can you elaborate on that? Sounds interesting. Cheers, Malte -- Malte Steiner media art + development -www.block4.com- Konform live 21.may ZMF Berlin, Germany New release: Notstandskomitee track for compilation 12" 'world of disorder' on http://www.disorder-records.de more at blog 4, also available as rss feed: http://java.block4.com/blog4/

Lee Revell wrote: and here, the nail has been hit on the head ;) shayne

I think it is OK to say that there's currently nothing comparable to AL on Linux. OTOH, we could ask Felipe what he actually wants to do and then we can point him on free software that can do the things he needs or tell him that there's nothing to do it yet. All of the lists I'm a member of are really great communities, including this one. We all make mistakes. What about keeping this in mind and simply looking forward instead of blowing this thread? Let's make music instead of noise ;-) ! Have fun ce

Of course ;-) . Best regards ce

On Tue, 2005-04-26 at 10:12 -0400, John Check wrote: Close... Actually, I was in a bad mood because I've been looking for a day job for some time, and it's going a lot more slowly than I had hoped. If anyone out there needs a coder/sysadmin/Linux expert with solid ISP experience in Philly (or possibly NYC), please mail me privately. Lee P.S. Despite the tone of my reply, I really do not have a short fuse. Honest...

Greetings: 'S okay, Lee, it's happened to me, I've made similar replies and been soundly rebuked. We live and learn, hopefully. I extend an apology to Levi too. As Anthony infers, short of obvious malice it's unfair of me to suggest anyone leave the list. Levi is entitled to state his opinions here, whether I agree with them or not. Four days of demonstration of the viability of Linux audio software has left me with an opinion rather opposite to Levi's. However, if he does indeed have an on-going problem with the performance stability of Linux sound and music software, perhaps he can utilize the resources on this list more fully. His choice, of course, but I'm certainly willing to assist wherever & whenever possible. My oh my, aren't we are a passionate group ?! :) Best, dp Lee Revell wrote:

Hallo, Levi D. Burton hat gesagt: // Levi D. Burton wrote: Maybe you wouldn't but people all over the world already do. One very popular program for doing live sound is Pure Data. It is a different program than Ableton Live, but it is designed for realtime use from the start, and it has a head start compared to Live anyways, as it is several years older. And Pd is not only used live by hobbist musicians who don't want to spend money on something like Ableton. Pd is used by professional musicians and artists, especially in the experimental field, but also in areas like the game soundtrack industry. The disadvantage is, that to learn Pd you'd need to learn a bit more about synthesis stuff, composing etc. than is required to do a loop track in Ableton Live. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org__ _ __latest track: "scans" _ http://footils.org/cms/show/41

On Wed, Apr 27, 2005 at 01:19:34AM +0100, tim hall wrote: Is this on the linuxdj site that's hosting the videos? I can't figure out if any of these would include Frank's set. spencer

Hallo, Spencer Russell hat gesagt: // Spencer Russell wrote: Thanks Tim. Actually one of the things I wanted to do with that was trying to use Pd for music, which is often done using Live, as in: music based on samples, dance music, "mute/unmute track oriented" music. Another "live" recording using the same patch is on my website at http://footils.org/cms/show/36 The quality is better as this was directly recorded to ogg from Pd. However of course you won't hear any girls or boys scream in the audience. ;) Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org__ _ __latest track: "scans" _ http://footils.org/cms/show/41