24 Apr
2011
24 Apr
'11
12:31 a.m.
Hello everyone,
This is not about the creative side of music but rather about how to
play some 'canned' (!) music. A concept album. A concept album is
distinct from other albums as the pieces flows into one another.
Such an album, when played on a traditional CD player, effectively
gives the impression of a 'flow motion' (no pun here on a famous CAN
album !).
But, once ripped to ogg files and played from a m3u source (eg.
sequentially) there are - no surprise - small blank cuts between each
piece, which can be disturbing in such a context. The context here
being Peter Hammill's 'Incoherence' concept album.
Does anyone have a recipe modification of those files (or ogg player
options - I now use either ogg123, mplayer or xine) or whatever other
way that would restitute the original flow feeling ? Do you know what
I mean ?
Cheers.
24 Apr
24 Apr
12:45 a.m.
On Sunday 24 April 2011 00:32:38 lanas wrote:
But, once ripped to ogg files and played from a m3u
source (eg.
sequentially) there are - no surprise - small blank cuts between each
piece, which can be disturbing in such a context. The context here
being Peter Hammill's 'Incoherence' concept album.
This is simply a matter of the playing software/hardware. If your current
playback software leaves gaps between songs which you don't want, either
search the documentation and the settings on how to remove them (most apps
seem to have an option for gapless-playback) or if that fails, use a player
that can do it.
It has nothing to do with the way the mp3/ogg/flac/wav is encoded and it has
nothing to do with the kind of music (live-recordings face the same problem).
And if the album is only really meaningfull when heard in the correct order,
why rip it into distinct songs? The usual encoding-formats afaik can contain
meta-data at any point in their stream (so you see changing descriptions
through the playback). Unfortunately I don't think there are many (or any)
apps that allow to define meta-data at a certain point in time.
Have fun,
Arnold
6:32 a.m.
On Saturday 23 April 2011 18:45, Arnold Krille wrote:
On Sunday 24 April 2011 00:32:38 lanas wrote:
Well, in the case of mp3s, it does have to do with how the file is encoded.
If the end of a piece of music doesn't coincide with an mp3 frame boundary,
and it almost never does, there'll be up to 24 milliseconds of silence,
enough to make a skipping noise even if your gapless playback program
concatenates the files perfectly. I think LAME or cdparanoia might
introduce some additional problem, as I just brought up the individual
tracks of my copy of Dark Side of the Moon and Brain Damage has 38
milliseconds of silence at the end before Eclipse, which isn't present in
the other copy I have that I ripped as one long track.
There's no way that I've found to rejoin the tracks programmatically
without access to the original recording. The best gapless playback effect
I've found was a plugin for I think xmms years ago that let me crossfade
about 50ms between tracks, and that still created the occasional glitch.
I have so many ripped CDs affected by this between prog rock, dance mixes,
and live albums that I might well have to re-rip all 1100-odd discs to FLAC
(since disk space is an order of magnitude cheaper than when I started
ripping to mp3) to correct this problem. But even if you encode an entire
disc to one big mp3 file and then cut it into tracks on frame boundaries
rather than doing the cutting before encoding, the problem is eliminated.
It's just that I've never seen a ripper program that'll do so, and when I
was writing the scripts I used to rip CDs en masse, I wasn't aware of the
problem yet.
Rob
But, once ripped to ogg files and played from a
m3u source (eg.
sequentially) there are - no surprise - small blank cuts between each
piece, which can be disturbing in such a context. The context here
It has
nothing to do with the way the mp3/ogg/flac/wav is encoded and it
has nothing to do with the kind of music (live-recordings face the same
problem). 
10:08 a.m.
Excerpts from Rob's message of 2011-04-24 06:32:12 +0200:
On Saturday 23 April 2011 18:45, Arnold Krille wrote:
AFAIK Lame should be better in this regard than other encoders, but it
also requires a capable decoder.
From: http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=LAME
* Gapless playback with LAME-header compliant decoders
You might also want to have a look at:
http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=MP3
http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=MP3
or the forums:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/
On Sunday 24 April 2011 00:32:38 lanas wrote:
Well, in the case of mp3s, it does have to do with how the file is encoded.
If the end of a piece of music doesn't coincide with an mp3 frame boundary,
and it almost never does, there'll be up to 24 milliseconds of silence,
enough to make a skipping noise even if your gapless playback program
concatenates the files perfectly. I think LAME or cdparanoia might
introduce some additional problem, as I just brought up the individual
tracks of my copy of Dark Side of the Moon and Brain Damage has 38
milliseconds of silence at the end before Eclipse, which isn't present in
the other copy I have that I ripped as one long track.
There's no way that I've found to rejoin the tracks programmatically
without access to the original recording. The best gapless playback effect
I've found was a plugin for I think xmms years ago that let me crossfade
about 50ms between tracks, and that still created the occasional glitch.
I have so many ripped CDs affected by this between prog rock, dance mixes,
and live albums that I might well have to re-rip all 1100-odd discs to FLAC
(since disk space is an order of magnitude cheaper than when I started
ripping to mp3) to correct this problem. But even if you encode an entire
disc to one big mp3 file and then cut it into tracks on frame boundaries
rather than doing the cutting before encoding, the problem is eliminated.
It's just that I've never seen a ripper program that'll do so, and when I
was writing the scripts I used to rip CDs en masse, I wasn't aware of the
problem yet.
Rob But, once ripped to ogg files and played from a
m3u source (eg.
sequentially) there are - no surprise - small blank cuts between each
piece, which can be disturbing in such a context. The context here
It has
nothing to do with the way the mp3/ogg/flac/wav is encoded and it
has nothing to do with the kind of music (live-recordings face the same
problem). 
3:19 a.m.
On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 12:32 AM, lanas <lanas(a)securenet.net> wrote:
Does anyone have a recipe modification of those files
(or ogg player
options - I now use either ogg123, mplayer or xine) or whatever other
way that would restitute the original flow feeling ? Do you know what
I mean ?
You can try playing those files with Aqualung music player
(http://aqualung.factorial.hu/). There are others too, but this one
has 'gapless playback' as one of its selling points :)
Cheers!
Igor
3:22 p.m.
On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 03:19:32 +0200,
Igor Brkic <igor(a)hyperglitch.com> wrote :
On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 12:32 AM, lanas
<lanas(a)securenet.net> wrote:
> Does anyone have a recipe modification of those files (or ogg
> player options - I now use either ogg123, mplayer or xine) or
> whatever other way that would restitute the original flow feeling ?
> Do you know what I mean ?
You can try playing those files with Aqualung music
player
(http://aqualung.factorial.hu/). There are others too, but this one
has 'gapless playback' as one of its selling points :)
Since one of the main opportunities for me to listen to music is during
work, and since my main work tool is emacs ... I use emacs' emms for
managing music files, making play lists, and playing music. As such,
and so far, it uses command-line audio players. If Aqualung has no
management of files and can be a console app, then I could give it a
try.
Cheers.
26 Apr
26 Apr
11:31 a.m.
----- "lanas" <lanas(a)securenet.net> wrote:
But, once ripped to ogg files and played from a m3u
source (eg.
sequentially) there are - no surprise - small blank cuts between each
piece, which can be disturbing in such a context. The context here
being Peter Hammill's 'Incoherence' concept album.
what player?
vlc miserably failed for me while at work, so I made that:
http://sed.free.fr/player/player-0.1.tar.gz
It works *for me* so be prepared, if you try it, that you won't
like it.
It works with alsa (or oss, but well, okay, forget that).
You do: ls this/that/*.mp3 | ./play -
and there you go.
You can also do: play PLAYLIST
It uses ffmpeg to decode audio and outputs data at 44.1KHz, 16b, stereo
so it must be there somewhere in your $PATH.
Output type can be changed by editing source code. Dig for "ffmpeg" in the
source. And also change alsa settings.
The output alsa device is "default" but can be changed too.
Well, just a hack but saves my ass to remove gaps between audio
files, don't eat 500Mb of RAM, plays files with non-utf8 filenames,
all what vlc completely sucks at here for me. Oh, and skip silence
too! (those kids putting 20 minutes of silence before the funky
"hidden track" you know)
You may get gaps between files though. I wanted for months to
make a "bufferized" version but laziness you know...
HTH but probably not, just a hack I mean...
Anyway there it is, public domain shit.
C.
(ah yeah, there is an equalizer tuned for my needs into it,
maybe you'll want to remove/tune that as well)
(hell, what kind of release is that, huh?)
(maybe one day with some time a full release) (or not, laziness)
27 Apr
27 Apr
7:26 p.m.
Well I was reading these messages, and from what I understand the
problem is the
encoding of the file, or can also be issue in the player.
Take look, I use a player that helps me manage my music collection, I
would recommend to you and test it: http://guayadeque.org, but this player
seems some hicups to have run some albums, not only him but also others
playes too, such as rhythmbox, for so have other players installed as
audacious, sonata, cGMP, quodlibet, etcs
Each of these has a way to read these, example: dbus, jack, alsa,
gstreamer, ffmpeg, ..., and to my surprise, when an album gets the hiccupsat
Guayadeque I test with audacious, except in cases of bad encoding the
problem is saned.
Secondly, the encoding, ripping can be done in various ways to extract cds,
never had problems with asunder, and also the sound-juicer, are simple tools
, an excellent tool for ripping soundconverter that is much easier to work
for flac, mp3, ogg, and others, is good for between 256 to 320. I have also
coded using ffmpeg, lame, mplayer, audacious, there are other tools and
other means, but are more complex, sometimes encoding with ffmpeg or
anything other can give to u echoes, hiccups or noises, so try use another
tool and compare, maybe is a software issue and not a file problem.
There are also sites lowness of which is already ready and encode are always
more than 320.
Well, this is a little tips, that i experienced, i expect i could help.
Regards
4960
days inactive
4964
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linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
7 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
Arnold Krille -
Cedric Roux -
Igor Brkic -
lanas -
Philipp Überbacher -
Rob -
yermandu