An app that is _always_ autoconnecting and has no way of changing that behaviour is bad...

Does this not contradict your argument? Without automatic connections the user now does need to know all about the jack application framework since otherwise they cannot get a jack application to make a sound. Maybe that is just in the details of what you are trying to say, but either the user needs to know a lot about several different applications and do it all for themselves, or if they know little to nothing they need to have the system do what it can for them. I agree that there needs to be an option to either auto-connect or not, my personal opinion is that auto-connect should be the default since the alternative of knowing everything puts too high a barrier to entry on Linux systems. What I mean by "knowing everything" is that without some auto-config then a first time user needs to find out and understand all the reasons and options that are preventing their application generating audio. The opposing situation is that an experienced user would have to find out the correct way to tune their environment overriding the auto-config features, something they are going to have to do anyway. There are plenty of similar mandates from other musical technologies, even MIDI specified that an instrument, per default, should always come up first time in OMNI mode and accept MIDI from any channel. That way the first time user can connect a cable and get started. Once they are happy they can bolt down their own channels, settings, etc, that fit their developing environment. This subject has come up at several times before and auto-connect/config are often seen as 'dumbing down'. This is generally not the case since the apps almost invariably have enough options for people to tweak and play with so the whole installation is not any dumber, it just has a lower barrier to entry. All this talk about speaker combinations does not really relate to auto-connect, no? If somebody has indeed built such a configuration and made it work then they should probably be relied upon to prevent automatic connections and a variety of other mistakes since otherwise, if they are not aware of how to do so, they will probably end up inflicting the same damage on themselves, ie, they should know to look into these issues beforehand or should not have deployed and been in charge of such an impressive installation. Regards, Nick. ------------------------------ check out the rest of the Windows Live™. More than mail–Windows Live™ goes way beyond your inbox. More than messages<http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/> _______________________________________________ Linux-audio-user mailing list Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user

I think there is a middle-ground here. When an application runs for the first time, I think it should show a configuration dialog allowing the user to choose connections for the input & output ports. These can default to the first available ports, so most users can simply hit "OK".

I think there is a middle-ground here. When an application runs for the first time, I think it should show a configuration dialog allowing the user to choose connections for the input & output ports. These can default to the first available ports, so most users can simply hit "OK". When the application runs in future, it automatically connects to the same ports. Though the user can run the configuration dialog again if needed. (This is pretty much what many Windows apps do, and it works pretty well.) While qjackctl may be handy for advanced users, I don't really think it is suitable for normal users. (I find it pretty painful to use myself.) Damon

I disagree. I use ZynAddSubFX and Rosegarden very heavily. Sometimes I want the sound from Zyn. only to go to the mains, sometimes I want it to go via jamin. The same is true for the Rosegarden audio. I also use external synths and very occasionally a microphone. Again the routes I take could be many and various. Each project I build has its own script for making the necessary connections when I run it. Autoconnect is just a nuisance to me. Similarly, sometimes when trying things out, I run MIDI direct from my external keyboard to a soft (or hard) synth. Other times I route through Rosegarden. I value the choice!

I agree that there needs to be an option to either auto-connect or not, my personal opinion is that auto-connect should be the default since the alternative of knowing everything puts too high a barrier to entry on Linux systems. What I mean by "knowing everything" is that without some auto-config then a first time user needs to find out and understand all the reasons and options that are preventing their application generating audio. The opposing situation is that an experienced user would have to find out the correct way to tune their environment overriding the auto-config features, something they are going to have to do anyway. There are plenty of similar mandates from other musical technologies, even MIDI specified that an instrument, per default, should always come up first time in OMNI mode and accept MIDI from any channel. That way the first time user can connect a cable and get started. Once they are happy they can bolt down their own channels, settings, etc, that fit their developing environment. tweaks, compatability, etc, that took time, and patience. dumbing down process. I think you missed the mark. I don't think any option given by a program implies dumbing down, the very fact that options are available imply user awareness in able to use them correctly, this issue is more about what are reasonable defaults for any option supported by a program. Do you think that apps should then never, ever autoconnect? Personally I still don't see the logic behind not having this as a default behaviour as long as it can be overridden as discussed by Arnold. autoconnecting By implication, for people who are not a little wiser using Linux then this feature may also _not_ the quite the _last_ thing they might want. The thing about such a capability is that if it is not discarded immediately then it should really be the first thing, ie, the default, otherwise it makes no sense anyway. Perhaps LAU is not the best place for this kind of discussion. Most of the people on this list are actually quite savvy and well aware of what they are being confronted with from a Linux installation. A friend of mine wanted to get his first Linux installation going to get audio software for his kids to play with. Now I was not too concerned about how his kids would get on with configuring all the different options, they pick stuff fast, however his pride might have been dented by not being able to get some basic going for them to get started. Will have a chat with him and find out his opinion as a slightly in awe new user and perhaps the first question I should ask him is who programes his television, I would put my money on it being his kids. My own daughter is two years old an loves banging banging sounds out of softsynths, quite happy to stick the USB MIDI cables where they neeed to go but I still have to connect all the apps together for her which is a bit of a shame. It's not that I mind doing it with her but I am sure that she would feel more assertive if she did it all herself. Nick ------------------------------ check out the rest of the Windows Live™. More than mail–Windows Live™ goes way beyond your inbox. More than messages<http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/>

> the user should not be required to know anything about application > frameworks).

Does this not contradict your argument?

Without automatic connections the user now does need to know all about the jack application framework since otherwise they cannot get a jack application to make a sound.

Maybe that is just in the details of what you are trying to say, but either the user needs to know a lot about several different applications and do it all for themselves, or if they know little to nothing they need to have the system do what it can for them.

I agree that there needs to be an option to either auto-connect or not, my personal opinion is that auto-connect should be the default since the alternative of knowing everything puts too high a barrier to entry on Linux systems.