On Thu, 1 Mar 2007 21:36:44 +0100 Thorsten Wilms <t_w_(a)freenet.de> wrote: Looks nice and clean to me. -- Will J G

On Thursday 01 March 2007, Thorsten Wilms wrote: like it :) ++ Flo -- Palimm Palimm! http://tapas.affenbande.org

On Thu, Mar 01, 2007 at 09:52:42PM +0000, Chris Cannam wrote: Hmm, yes, tweaked. A new s. Thanks Chris, that's the level I was hoping for! Which is not to say I don't appreciate simply positive comments, thanks to all who repllied ;) On Fri, Mar 02, 2007 at 06:47:38PM +0000, Burkhard Ritter wrote: I had it on my scribbles but then forgot it for a while ... now a waveform in the background. It's meant to be secondary, the emphasis is on 'app'. At the side would make the whole thing very wide. I think putting it into the window would make it look crowded. Here we go again: http://thorwil.affenbande.org/index.php/2007/03/02/appslinuxaudioorg-03/ -- Thorsten Wilms Thorwil's Creature Illustrations: http://www.printfection.com/thorwil

On Fri, Mar 02, 2007 at 09:58:54PM +0100, Thorsten Wilms wrote: Wow, that looks good! With the waveform and the colour gradients and everything. I'm still not sure about the linuxaudio.org-writing, but the box really is superb. Burkhard

First rough website mockup: http://thorwil.affenbande.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/half-wave_02.jpg On Fri, Mar 02, 2007 at 09:18:50PM +0000, Folderol wrote: Hmm, we don't have a well established brand. This logo is mainly targeted at making this particular site look polished, professional. The visual expression of caring, being organised. If you leave the linuxaudio.org part out, it stays recognisable. But if someone just sees 'apps' in a window, they will wonder what apps? Thanks, Folderol. On Fri, Mar 02, 2007 at 10:41:38PM +0000, Burkhard Ritter wrote: Thank you, Burkhard. So I understand your view, don't share it and I'm not willing to move the linuxaudio.org text anywhere ;) -- Thorsten Wilms Thorwil's Creature Illustrations: http://www.printfection.com/thorwil

Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote: I was going to say the same thing. Make it clean and it'll be able to move to different "venues". In addition to the problems with size, if the need arises for a need to go B&W and/or 2D, it'll be much more readable (like the first sample) -- brad fuller http://www.Sonaural.com/ +1 (408) 799-6124

On Tuesday 06 Mar 2007 21:15, Thorsten Wilms wrote: My first response was that the colour is rather unpleasant. I'm probably influenced by the dripping waveform shape, but it brings to mind the shade that Luc Tuymans called "the colour of contamination". It turns out -- http://www.tate.org.uk/servlet/ViewWork?workid=26209 -- that his green was a lot more green than this one, but the blue in this makes it seem not cool and inviting, to me, but queasy in its uncomfortable mixture of grime with chemical cleanliness. The Tuymans green is fouler, but in a reassuring sort of way -- it has a sort of gothic self-indulgence about it. Still, it's probably just my monitor. And if it didn't have the waveform -- if it just faded between the two background colours -- then I probably would find it cool and inviting. It's a question of suggestion. Chris

On Tue, Mar 06, 2007 at 05:05:09PM -0500, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote: Sure. Foud out whether there's a gap or not depends on font-size, thanks to the CSS being such a bloody hack. -- Thorsten Wilms Thorwil's Creature Illustrations: http://www.printfection.com/thorwil

Thorsten Wilms wrote: was going to mention before (sorry, I forgot) that the only comment I have about the logo is that it doesn't convey audio or linux. Maybe if the loops of the 'p's were speakers, or something like that. Nah, that's pretty sophomoric. But, you get the idea. I'm sure that's why you place the waveform in the background. That doesn't work for the reasons cited before, but you get my drift about it looking generic, right? -- brad fuller http://www.Sonaural.com/ +1 (408) 799-6124

Thorsten, how about that old logo you once proposed for Lao which was penguin sliding down the sine waveform? That one might be more along the lines that Nick is talking about? Ico

On Wednesday 07 March 2007, Thorsten Wilms wrote: I still do like the logo. It makes it very clear that the page is about applications.. I don't like the color scheme of the site too much though. Anyways both are just my personal opinions.. I totally agree that not everything linux related needs a penguin somewhere ;) Keep up the good work.. If people get on your nerves, ignore them and do ya thing :) Regards, Flo -- Palimm Palimm! http://tapas.affenbande.org

On Wed, Mar 07, 2007 at 10:19:40AM +0100, Thorsten Wilms wrote: I reread Nick's post and noticed I got some things the wrong way this morning, sorry. So this is how I should have replied. No it doesn't reflect any of that. I would be hard pressed to express dance, poetry, romance, sex and rock and roll in a logo, anyway. The logo is meant to express that it's about APPLICATIONS. A pretty generic concept. With a waveform in the background, I don't consider it important to express sound in the logo too. Also the logo doesn't stand for linuxaudio, it stands for this particular sub-site, emphasizing the one specific thing about it: apps. This site is all about organisation, categorisation. Thus I'm fine if the logo has a touch of 'office'. -- Thorsten Wilms Thorwil's Creature Illustrations: http://www.printfection.com/thorwil

On Wed, 7 Mar 2007 21:55:07 +0100 I like it a lot. It has a very good feel to it. Thanks for putting the creative energy into it. Tracey.

On Wednesday 07 Mar 2007 20:55, Thorsten Wilms wrote: I'm not sure about the meter-strips colouring in the stem of the p in the logo. It looks like a too ungainly attempt to get something audio-related into the logo. I agreed with your previous view that that wasn't really necessary, and I don't think these strips look enough like actual meters (especially spaced as they are) to carry the metaphor. The silhouettes in the logo title bar are nice. The background seems odd at first glance, but wears well. Chris

Thanks for the replies so far! On Thu, Mar 08, 2007 at 04:53:09PM +0100, Robin Gareus wrote: I like to think the background is very characteristic without being overly loud. Odd is so much better than boring :) I kept a few revisions to myself ;) For a more professional approach, one would start with a briefing and generate many variations. I try to cut down on that, though. Seems the style is good to catch some attention. I will remove the meters. Don't know if and how I should/might change the background. -- Thorsten Wilms Thorwil's Creature Illustrations: http://www.printfection.com/thorwil

On 11:22:25 pm 03/08/07 Robin Gareus <robin(a)gareus.org> wrote: Depends if you take from the German meaning or the English. As much as some might not want to admit it, at least a few of us are :-P -- Patrick Shirkey Boost Hardware Ltd

On 10:48:40 pm 03/09/07 Robin Gareus Daniel setup LAO as a focal point for the professional market to come to and for the professionals among us to have a representative contact point that other professional companies would feel comfortable interacting with. The full mission is clearly presented on the main page at www.linuxaudio.org. I'm a professional Linux Audio Developer and there are several others who have contributed the lion share of the audio backend who are too. Being a professional Linux Audio Developer is something to be proud of and is even a marketing angle that gives a certain level of immediate respect when dealing with companies that come from a windows or more traditional commercial dev background. The way Thorsten chooses to work with us on his design projects is certainly different to most companies but I think in only one major respect. He doesn't waste time to get the ball rolling. We aren't left with long delays to justify the enormous charges that most designers attempt to invoice. IMO self deprecating comments about the so called "unprofessional" approach of yours and others obvious hard work because you/they are not being paid in dollars and cents is unnecessary. Even more so when you are contributing to the Linux Audio.org family of projects. I'll attempt to state this again now. It's a good thing to be a professional Linux Audio Developer!!! We are different from the rest of the pack. It's something the rest of the pack respects. It's a way of increasing your marketability in a highly competitive industry. It's a badge of honor to be worn with pride. Anyone who says otherwise is mistaken or misinformed. If you can do it, do it well and enjoy it when you do. Nuff said? -- Patrick Shirkey Boost Hardware Ltd

On 10:47:48 pm 03/11/07 Robin Gareus I agree with you on many points too. My main point is to encourage everyone to look at the work that has been done so far as professional quality, done by professionals and attempting to present a professional face. If there are issues with the execution or the outcome of many of the projects it's a good thing to discuss how to make things better. For example recently many people have spoken about the lack of accessible and uptodate documentation. I would like to counter that it is all there in the wild but we don't have a very complete way of presenting it to the public. There currently exists at least 10 websites that store useful info for Linux audio. These are probably the most well known: linuxaudio.org alsa-project.org agnula.org ccrma ubuntu gentoo If someone was to take over managing a docs subdomain at LAO then it would be handy to compile a links list to all the documentation that is currently hosted on the sites above and any other sites that are deemed worthy. However this is at least a three month project and also requires a concerted effort from the various site admins and contributors to provide systematic updates. It will also require someone/s to be actively monitoring for new information as it is released/published. If we were to provide an automated interface for adding content it would also be helpful. In my opinion a wiki is not the ideal solution for this particular project as it leaves too much room for variation of the content being presented. Better would be to have a form very similar to the form on the vst plugins page. In fact it wouldn't take long for someone to use the code for that project as a base. It would be a good project for a newbie to cut their teeth on and get some web programming experience with fully functional web server. If anyone is interested in polishing/learning some web programming skills let us know. Cheers. -- Patrick Shirkey Boost Hardware Ltd

On Wed, Mar 07, 2007 at 09:55:07PM +0100, Thorsten Wilms wrote: And a new link for comparison: http://thorwil.affenbande.org/apps-devel_2/index.html -- Thorsten Wilms Thorwil's Creature Illustrations: http://www.printfection.com/thorwil

On 3/9/07, Ivica Ico Bukvic <ico(a)vt.edu> wrote: The logo looks better agreed. The background is a nice idea, although I find it a little too "flashy" for me. Oh, and BTW Ico, don't top-post....... -- __________________ Marc-Olivier Barre, Markinoko.

On 3/9/07, terrence(a)terrencevak.net <terrence(a)terrencevak.net> wrote: I'm sure it's possible to get close - I think this is what karaoke machines do. No idea how though. Lee

2007/3/9, Eric Dantan Rzewnicki <eric(a)zhevny.com>om>: What they do is add the inverted right channel onto the left and vice-versa... Sounds simple, is simple, removes the bass and doesn't work on all titles. A friend of mine programmed a version combined with high- and lowpass to let the bass-part go through the effect and only karaoke-filter on the higher frequencies. He also made the levels of the inverted signals adjustable. That way you can select the panorama position to remove. As a result you could filter either Eric Clapton or BB King on "Riding with the king" and it sounded rather good. But beware if you put these signals on a PA (for public karaoke): The new left and right channels need to be panned. The more the better. You will here nothing if both channels are panned center. (Because both channels contain the other one inverted and the result will be two normal and two inverted channels canceling each other = zero audio levels...) Have a nice weekend, Arnold -- visit http://www.arnoldarts.de/ --- Wenn man mit Raubkopien Bands wie Brosis oder Britney Spears wirklich verhindern könnte, würde ich mir noch heute einen Stapel Brenner und einen Sack Rohlinge kaufen.

Hmm, actually I think the input was a mono source, so that might not work after all. Terrence

The earlier, "filtering out sounds" thread left me wondering if the GG-DV2000 has been ported to linux yet - http://www.unpronounceable.com/gould/ Anyone know? sevol

Dave Phillips wrote: I'm glad you enjoyed it; the site is amusing. Unfortunately, or fortunately?, seems the developers bit off more than they could chew trying to build the Keith Jarrett module. I don't see that it ever arrived. Jarrett is just too good at mimicking his keyboard soounds. Perhaps a Cecil Taylor module can find a place on their wish list :) Joseph Spence is new for me, but what I read of him makes me want to listen. Thanks for the introduction, I think. sevol

Ken Restivo wrote: Thanks for the tapestrea info. But I'm not far along with Linux audio, not even finished fumbling with the audio interface setup under Linux. That'd have a nice correlation to Cage, though atm I can't quite put my finger on it's exact nature :) Bride of 4'33''? Or more so, a technologically induced offspring of Beatboxing? sevol

Hmmmm...well it's actually an old tape of all spoken stuff; conversations I had while visiting family in Europe. I want to hang on to the other people's voices etc., but mine has changed a bit since then and the old sound bugs me. Terrence

On Fri Mar 09, 2007 at 11:09:27PM +0100, Robin Gareus wrote: theres plenty of software that can take a FFT snapshot, wiht a large window size (eg a passage of spoken text). then filter another wave using that as a mask... you could also play with a spectral gate, if the voice is obviously louder than everything else. once again you'll get artifacts and sectinsn that didnt hit the threshold.. it definitely helps to work in an editor that lets you view your waveforms as a spectrogram as well. theres lots of choices on windows for both of these things (fft masking, and spectrogram editing). not sure about linux..

carmen wrote: freqTweak, jaaa, jace,.. http://apps.linuxaudio.org/apps/categories/signal_analysis_processing_softw… most of it is a little overkill I guess.

terrence(a)terrencevak.net wrote: maybe there are better suited algorithms in GUI software that one can wrap into a CLI macro. and if you're into coding: Fons Adriaensen's convolution code might come in handy: http://www.kokkinizita.net/linuxaudio/ You might be able to build an adaptive filter that keeps track of your pitch with supercollider in text only. or use BIG pd boxes... :) I dare say if you "know how to get there" the linux command line offers plenty of opportunities to do the job! - personally I would need to resort on graphical-sound analysis to tackle the problem.. I'll take off my glasses and think again. I have never tried to FFT-away a voice pattern. sometimes I adjust mixed vocals or voices over a background track. and get pretty good results with a series of small-band eq's in the 200-800 Hz range. and a wider bandpass around 1.4k to trigger a compressor. You might want to add a threshold/cut. - i usually hand edit the automation.. if it's a loooong tape. cut it. I'd rather cut it anyway - you'll be much more satisfied if you keep the unequalized, original voices if you want to remember their sound and articulation. just trash the annoying parts of the conversation :) robin PS. off-topic. I know a blind cabaret artist who does his own recordings incl. editing and post-production with CoolEdit2000 under windows - according to him the only graphical DAW that can be controlled by visually impaired with a PC-keyboard and no extra (braille OR audio-mixer/MIDI) hardware! he even automates some VST plugins, but I don't have any details. - anyway he once asked me about the possibilities to build an open-source DAW for blind users. eg. there are still issues remote controlling ardour without visual feedback... while braille and speech seem to work well under linux - it still seems not [yet] possible to set up a linux Audio Workstation that just works without an eye on the screen. and even worse: usually audio-hardware manufacturers have "flashy" websites and the most tech-specs become invisible! the usual music-shops were overburdened with his requests and high-end solutions are not acceptable... he managed to research on and online-order a M-audio Firewire and PCI Firewire Card for his purpose. I'm not in regular contact with Vincent, but I said I'll drop him a line when I stumble over something interesting.. forgive my ignorance. Is there a central good resource for headless linux DAW setups? maybe we can start a category or wiki page on http://apps.linuxaudio.org/ ? There is a paper about using ecasound & braille from Julien Claassen, but I have not followed the subject myself. robin

Thorsten Wilms wrote: the 2nd Version is much better! alas it reminds me less and less about linux audio, but the logo clearly fixes this shotcoming - Well I'd be glad to use it! nit-picking: the logo should go more to the left, and maybe the background, too. the Boxes are cut-off on the right-screen edge, so why should they align to the left if it's a spectrum snapshot? :) - and there still is a blue haze in the whites which I don't think is my screen. Personally I favor a more minimalistic approach. (IMO this media-wiki look and feel is somewhat bloated) - if you excuse Flash for a minute: http://www.sandberg.nl is IMHO a great webdesign! A 2D-matrix as front-face might also work well for apps.linuxaudio.org columns: synth, effects, recording, lao-community..; rows: user-info, apps-list, docs/mail-archive robin

Thorsten Wilms wrote: ...and I guess it's position might also depend on the browser ;-X If we settle to use it, I'm going to fix some html errors in the monobook template, but that'll happen _after_ we've decided on the look&feel... the white ("Getting Started" header) seems balanced white, but the bg ("Newbie Introduction") has a blue shade compared to it (clearly visible in the brighter pixels they're not grayish - best viewed at a distance. I've tried three screens now - but all geeks like the touch of blue :) IMO it takes away too much warmth that the rest of the design is building up nicely. funny it's a really small site, actually from the prev. millenium! What about the 2-d matrix front-face then? it might fit the block style in away or the other? robin

Thorsten Wilms wrote: you win! right, but that's not a point. true, but either way they should work well together! dokuwiki tables are much nicer than mediawiki's syntax. <li> items are fine with me, (the front-page does not need to be a wiki page) but they won't align well with text-only browsers or browsers that don't support CSS/JS.. robin

On Monday 19 Mar 2007 19:00, Thorsten Wilms wrote: I think I probably like it. Chris