22 Oct
2002
22 Oct
'02
8:26 p.m.
On Tue, 22 Oct 2002, Peter L Jones wrote:
Heh. Now, one of
these I have in my machine ((PII vintage) Celeron 400)
already. The other would set me back £150. Your comment makes me think
there's little to choose between them. So, simply upgrading my soundcard
from a £15 low end consumer-oriented unit to something costing 10 times the
price looks like getting me nothing. Or am I missing something? :-(
Well, yes. ES1371 brings you 2ch in+out with max 48000Hz sampling rate,
and 16bit sample resolution. Midiman 2496 on the other hands provides up
to 96kHz sampling rate, 24bit sample resolution, 2ch in+out and digital
in+out. Check the specs from manufacturer's site.
And btw, I confused Audiophile with Delta44 (which I have, has 4ins +
4outs, no digital in/out). Both are based on the envy24 chipset, should
perform equally well. Please, correct me if I'm wrong.
Yup, I'll probably never get tired of the following slogan: "sb128
(ens1371) is the best creative card as it's the one they didn't make
themselves". :) Ok, maybe the current SB cards are better, but I'll
never forgive the company the disappointment their AWE64Gold caused me.
Such waste of money! ;)
Well, it depends on what you want to do. How many channels you need in
and/or out, do you need high-quality recording, do you need digital
ins/out, do you need hardware support for multi-open, etc, etc?
I'm not a hardware expert so I can't answer to all these questions, but I
can tell about the criteria I used when I selected my last card. My
primary use is multitrack recording and mixing. I needed capability to
record >2 channels, high-quality a/d and good support for low-latency and
full-duplex. My choice was midiman delta44. It has 4 ins, an external
a/d&a/d box (important for high-quality conversion), good ALSA drivers and
wasn't too expensive (ie. a lot cheaper that the RME cards for instance).
So far I've been very satisfied with this purchace.
PS Let's cross-post to linux-audio-user. That and alsa-user are
probably the best forums for this discussion.
--
http://www.eca.cx
Audio software for Linux!
* MidiMan Delta Audiophile 2496 (Envy24)
* Creative SB PCI 128 (ES1371)
I've used both of these extensively with JACK
and numerous other ALSA apps
and they work really well (full-duplex, low-latency use). Other - GUS MAX
(this very, very old ISA-card can still beat a number of
today's crappy chipsets... I don't know whether to cry or laugh ;))
I
noticed that the ENS1371 seems to have a better rating on one site I looked
than to EMU10K, so this doesn't surprise me! All in all,
most of the PCI-cards supported by ALSA have fairly good
drivers.
But how do I compare one card with another? What should I be looking
for?
How can I tell which will reduce the load on my computer and which will
increase the load? Is there any difference? 
23 Oct
23 Oct
4:26 p.m.
On Tuesday 22 Oct 2002 23:22, Kai Vehmanen wrote:
All I'm currently doing is driving a soft synth (TiMidity++) from a USB MIDI
keyboard.
My current view, just starting out, is that I only need a single in for
sampling and a single out for playback. For future use, digital i/o might be
handy.
I've come to the conclusion that putting a MIDI synth onto a sound card is a
bad option - you can always find a larger set of samples you want to play
with. So most of the grunt work is going to be on the CPU.
Thus my main concern is that the card isn't going to slow the system down
while it's processing the samples. And that the card doesn't prevent the CPU
feeding it audio data as fast as it can play it. Mostly those are to do with
system configuration rather than hardware, I think...
On Tue, 22 Oct 2002, Peter L Jones wrote:
My original pick was the Delta44 but I don't need that much I/O.
Heh. Now, one of these I have in my machine ((PII vintage) Celeron 400)
already. The other would set me back £150. Your comment makes me think
there's little to choose between them. So, simply upgrading my soundcard
from a £15 low end consumer-oriented unit to something costing 10 times
the price looks like getting me nothing. Or am I missing something? :-(
Well, yes. ES1371 brings you 2ch in+out with max 48000Hz sampling rate,
and 16bit sample resolution. Midiman 2496 on the other hands provides up
to 96kHz sampling rate, 24bit sample resolution, 2ch in+out and digital
in+out. Check the specs from manufacturer's site.
And btw, I confused Audiophile with Delta44 (which I have, has 4ins +
4outs, no digital in/out). Both are based on the envy24 chipset, should
perform equally well. Please, correct me if I'm wrong. But how do I
compare one card with another? What should I be looking
for? How can I tell which will reduce the load on my computer and which
will increase the load? Is there any difference?
Well, it depends on what you want to do. How many channels you need in
and/or out, do you need high-quality recording, do you need digital
ins/out, do you need hardware support for multi-open, etc, etc?
I'm not a hardware expert so I can't answer to all these questions, but I
can tell about the criteria I used when I selected my last card. My
primary use is multitrack recording and mixing. I needed capability to
record >2 channels, high-quality a/d and good support for low-latency and
full-duplex. My choice was midiman delta44. It has 4 ins, an external
a/d&a/d box (important for high-quality conversion), good ALSA drivers and
wasn't too expensive (ie. a lot cheaper that the RME cards for instance).
So far I've been very satisfied with this purchace.
Well, getting the positive feedback on the Envy24 is really good. Like you
say, given the (relatively) low price on the 2496, I'll probably go with it
to try for future proofing.
PS Let's cross-post to linux-audio-user. That and alsa-user are
probably the best forums for this discussion.
I've kept them on the CC but I'm not subscribed - I'm currently struggling to
keep up with LAD and ALSADEV :-(.
-- Peter
24 Oct
24 Oct
6:40 a.m.
> On Tue, 22 Oct 2002, Peter L Jones wrote:
> I'm not a hardware expert so I can't answer to all these questions, but I
> can tell about the criteria I used when I selected my last card. My
> primary use is multitrack recording and mixing. I needed capability to
> record >2 channels, high-quality a/d and good support for low-latency and
> full-duplex. My choice was midiman delta44. It has 4 ins, an external
> a/d&a/d box (important for high-quality conversion), good ALSA drivers and
> wasn't too expensive (ie. a lot cheaper that the RME cards for instance).
> So far I've been very satisfied with this purchace.
Midiman Delta44 does not have an external DAC. Trust me, I have one and I've
looked inside the breakout box. :) IIRC only the Delta1010 has external DAC.
S/N for the Delta44 is ~96dB, compare to >100dB for the Delta1010.
Overall I like the Envy24 stuff, but currently I think the alsa driver has
some stability issues with my kernel (maybe from too many patches or that
proprietary NVidia junk).
---
Andrew W. Schmeder
andy(a)e-molecule.com
1:44 p.m.
On Thu, Oct 24, 2002 at 01:37:00AM -0700, Andrew W. Schmeder wrote:
Midiman Delta44 does not have an external DAC. Trust
me, I have one and I've
looked inside the breakout box. :) IIRC only the Delta1010 has external DAC.
S/N for the Delta44 is ~96dB, compare to >100dB for the Delta1010.
Wha...? weird. I'll have to break out the screwdriver when I
get home, and see what's in that Delta 66...
--
Paul Winkler
http://www.slinkp.com
"Welcome to Muppet Labs, where the future is made - today!"
25 Oct
25 Oct
5:19 p.m.
On Thu, Oct 24, 2002 at 08:41:23AM -0700, Paul Winkler wrote:
On Thu, Oct 24, 2002 at 01:37:00AM -0700, Andrew W.
Schmeder wrote:
Well how about that.
The Delta44/66 breakout box is phenomenally simple.
Nothing in there but a connector for the plug,
8 1/4" jacks, 8 resistors, and 8 capacitors.
Even I could build that. :)
--
Paul Winkler
http://www.slinkp.com
"Welcome to Muppet Labs, where the future is made - today!"
Midiman Delta44 does not have an external DAC.
Trust me, I have one and I've
looked inside the breakout box. :) IIRC only the Delta1010 has external DAC.
S/N for the Delta44 is ~96dB, compare to >100dB for the Delta1010.
Wha...? weird. I'll have to break out the screwdriver when I
get home, and see what's in that Delta 66...
3:26 p.m.
On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, Andrew W. Schmeder wrote:
Midiman Delta44 does not have an external DAC. Trust
me, I have one and I've
looked inside the breakout box. :) IIRC only the Delta1010 has external DAC.
S/N for the Delta44 is ~96dB, compare to >100dB for the Delta1010.
Oops, thanks for the correction! At least I have my 24 bits... I hope.:)
Overall I like the Envy24 stuff, but currently I think
the alsa driver has
some stability issues with my kernel (maybe from too many patches or that
I've had a few kernel crashes when using ALSA's OSS-emulation, but
otherwise it has worked really well.
--
http://www.eca.cx
Audio software for Linux!
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5 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
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Andrew W. Schmeder -
Kai Vehmanen -
Paul Winkler -
Peter L Jones