4 Aug
2011
4 Aug
'11
9:39 p.m.
My question/answer: "How much are you willing
to do to make it happen?"
Well I'm not exactly sure anymore to be honest, I didn't think my
message would start such a rant!
But after reading all the answered, two things seem to stand out:
1. A lot of the FOSS music software are not for the general public. I
wouldn't agree myself (I mean, Ardour, Hydrogen or Yoshimi are as
straight forward as a music software can be)... And for that, nothing
much I/we can do but participate to the code (which I do when I can),
make donations (which I do every year), provide feedback, provide bug
reports, etc, etc, etc...
And obvisouly use the software and produce some tunes! Which I do too:
http://soundcloud.com/a-violent-whisper
(Although now I realise that nowhere I say that it's completely
recorded/produced with only FOSS softwares!)
2. More interrestingly, the "appeal to famous artists" didn't seem to
be well received... What seems to come out though is that although the
FOSS community seems to be good to produce software, we don't seem to
be good at advertising it :)
- Ardour has...49 followers on facebook... Nothing on the wall...
- Hydrogen...94...and one entry on the wall...
- Couldn't find a # tag for any of these on Twitter...
I know I know, we are not advertisers, we are developers!
But what if a small group of us (and yeah, including me :)) would do that?
How do we go about that? We have loads of website/tools to share code
and software (sourceforge, svn, git, etc..), but none to organise
ourself into a community to create some kind of organised campagn of
advertisement on social networks (or other tools)!
What I have in mind is what was done by ThisOneIsOnUs... what they did
for their production is exacty what we do every day for FOSS
software...
Any ideas?
-Mike Mazarick
PS - sorry for the top posting, but I thought it better in this instance
-----Original Message-----
From: Aurélien Leblond [mailto:blablack@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 11:07 AM
To: linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
Subject: [LAU] An appeal to famous artists?
I'm writing this post because of a few experiences I had over the
years into world of amateur music production (but I'm sure it does
applies to every artistic domains).
I'm an amateur musician and a Linux enthusiast, and even though I work
as a developer, my professional activity doesn't directly have
anything to do with both these
domains (although in the case of Linux this is quite a shame, but
that's another subject). But one thing I am surrounded with at work is
fellow musicians.
I have setup a pretty nice home studio in my flat: electronic drumkit,
alright USB sound-card, good quality speakers, electric guitar, pretty
big guitar fx board, USB
keyboard with a lot of knobs, few synthesizers and......a laptop
running Ubuntu, Ardour, Hydrogen, AlsaModularSynth, Yoshimi, LV2, etc,
etc and etc...
A few of these colleagues came to my place to play music, and all of
them were impressed by the level of investment, and invariably the
first question that comes
up is the price of all the hardware and software... So when I
explained that I gathered the hardware over the last few years and
that the software is free, I always get
that little wink and smile:
- “haaaa 'free'? Bittorent yeah?”
- “no no no...not THAT free... I'm using Linux, and I'm trying to make
a point of using only free software in my music production... Actually
it's not free as you think it is,
I do try to make some donations every year, blablabla...”
And invariably, I get “the look” (you all know which one I'm talking
about)...
As the sessions go on and my colleagues see the different software in
actions, they always start to make the comparison with what they use
in other OS: “Wouah I
can't do that with my drum machine! And this software Ardour is pretty
cool, and I really like the sound of this synthesizer! What is it?
AlsaModularMix you say?
Well it looks weird but I like it!”...
Then as the conversation goes on on gears and software, it generally
goes like this “oh, I bought this synth because Trent Reznor from Nine
Inch Nails is using it
and I wanted to get that sound...”, “this guitar fx? Bought it because
the guys in Slayer are using it and I love” (yes all my mates and
myself are metal heads!).
So I started to think... And I thought a little bit more... All the
people I know in the music world, we always use references to known
artist: “Trent Reznor uses this,
The Edge uses that, Brian Eno has this synth, etc”. There is even a
website that list the gears used by famous guitar players.
I have a couple of friends back in my home country who are trying to
build up a recording studio... They work 100 hours a week recording
and promoting local bands,
they eat pasta because the money is tight.......but they spent I don't
know how much into brand new Macs and software licenses...
I can hear you from here already “WHY DID YOU NOT TELL THEM ABOUT
LINUX???”
Well......I did:
- “Yeah RIGHT! Every known musicians use Macs! They are designed for
artists!”
Really? Who decided that? Aaaaaaahhhhh yeah I forgot, Apple is very
good at advertisement... See that little illuminated apple at the back
of every of their laptops?
That sticks out well when Trent Reznor posts pictures of his studio,
or when you see pictures of ?uestLove on stage...
- “Linux and stuff... It's for free... It must sucks... I mean you
need loads of research and money to create the software to play
music...”
Really?
- “It's not stable enough...”
Ok, I give you that... But we have come a long way... And I bet that a
good Ubuntu setup without alpha or beta versions of any software would
be stable...
And obviously the user base on proprietary software is bigger, so more
testers, more feedbacks... But hey, look at my laptop, pretty stable
no?
- “It's too complicated... with these command lines and all...”
Hmmm yes and no there... Yes setting up a Linux machine with a low
latency kernel is quite complicated... But remind me how much did you
spent to setup your
Mac? And yeah you are right, we used command lines in Linux... But YOU
don't have to! When was the last time you saw a Linux machine? Ah
yeah, when I
show you my Mandrake machine 10 years ago... Well we came a long way
since that time, you should check it again! I mean playing, recording
and producing
music on a computer IS a complicated business, whatever OS you use.
- “And when it doesn't work, who do I ask?”
Hmmmm, when Cubase doesn't work, what do you do? Oh yeah, you google
your issue and you browse around forums to find a solutions...
Actually when you have an issue with your mac in general, is it Apple
or a dude on some forums who gives you the solution?
So I thought a little bit more... In the world of artists (I thinking
here especially about music, but it is probably right in other
artistic domains), brands are created
because artists use them, no?
And SERIOUSLY, in the world of music, the Open Source world certainly
have brilliant tools! And the Open Source certainly has to speak to a
lot of artist if they
knew about it? The sense of freedom, the sense of sharing? Isn't it
what Bob Marley or Rage Against the Machine were singing about?
Trent Reznor (yes, I am a big fan) has been releasing music under
Creative Common licenses... He let the people decide how much they
wanted to pay for
some of his albums (remind you of something? Donations?). He let fans
record all the concerts of his last tour, let them mix it, cut it,
produce it, package it and
sale it (check out ThisOneIsOnUs). He even provided the tracks of some
songs for the fan to have fun and mix them differently... Surely a guy
like that would
understand the value of Free Software. And where there is one, there
might be others...
(Sorry for the long introduction but) What I am getting at is this:
Should we make an appeal to artists to produce something using only
Open Source software?
What do you guys think? Isn't it the best time to promulgate such a
message, with the social media and all? And if yes, what would be the
best way?
Or am I completely wrong? And there is something in the big picture I
didn't see?
4 Aug
4 Aug
10:55 p.m.
New subject: An appeal to famous artists?
On 04.08.2011 21:39, Aurélien Leblond wrote:
2. More interrestingly, the "appeal to famous
artists" didn't seem to
be well received... What seems to come out though is that although the
FOSS community seems to be good to produce software, we don't seem to
be good at advertising it :)
- Ardour has...49 followers on facebook... Nothing on the wall...
- Hydrogen...94...and one entry on the wall...
- Couldn't find a # tag for any of these on Twitter...
Hi Aurélien,
as a developer of hydrogen let me chime in here.. I think it could be a
good idea
to think a little bit about the "marketing" of our applications. At the
moment
the presentation of hydrogen is more or less restricted to our homepage
and our mailing lists.
I've posted rarely to a facebook group (i think you didn't find it), but
that was all. It's hard and cumbersome to use all channels at once
(twitter, google+, etc...) if all you want to do is publish a release
notification or something like this..
I know I know, we are not advertisers, we are
developers!
But what if a small group of us (and yeah, including me :)) would do that?
Do you
have any specific ideas there? Maybe a "linux audio booth" at
fairs would be a nice idea as a joined project. I had this idea earlier
for hydrogen, but it is very hard for one small project to organize (and
pay for) such an event.
- Sebastian
11:59 p.m.
New subject: Social Media (was: An appeal to famous artists?)
On 08/04/2011 10:55 PM, Sebastian Moors wrote:
On 04.08.2011 21:39, Aurélien Leblond wrote:
> 2. More interrestingly, the "appeal to famous artists" didn't seem to
> be well received... What seems to come out though is that although the
> FOSS community seems to be good to produce software, we don't seem to
> be good at advertising it :)
> - Ardour has...49 followers on facebook... Nothing on the wall...
> - Hydrogen...94...and one entry on the wall...
> - Couldn't find a # tag for any of these on Twitter...
>
Unbelievable that we are missing the chances here. You would expect that
opensource projects (like Ardour) see these social media as a godsend.
Hi Aurélien,
as a developer of hydrogen let me chime in here.. I think it could be
a good idea
to think a little bit about the "marketing" of our applications. At
the moment
the presentation of hydrogen is more or less restricted to our
homepage and our mailing lists.
Underground! ;)
I've posted rarely to a facebook group (i think
you didn't find it),
but that was all. It's hard and cumbersome to use all channels at once
(twitter, google+, etc...) if all you want to do is publish a release
notification or something like this..
There are social media clients which can
handle multiple accounts very
well. One message will be posted on all your accounts (e.g. twitter,
identica, facebook, ...)
> I know I know, we are not advertisers, we are
developers!
> But what if a small group of us (and yeah, including me :)) would do
> that?
Right, not all developers are good in marketing or project management
(binding users, cooperation with other devs, donations etc.). But why
not ask a enthusiastic user to start a twitter account for the project
and report news, howtos and interact with users/ reviewers etc.
Regards,
\r
5 Aug
5 Aug
12:12 a.m.
New subject: Social Media
On 08/04/2011 11:59 PM, rosea grammostola wrote:
On 08/04/2011 10:55 PM, Sebastian Moors wrote:
MuseScore is @youtube @twitter @identica @facebook ...
And youtube and twitter seems to be nicely integrated in the latest version:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/musescore/5953236603/
http://musescore.org/en/node/11523
Respect. :)
On 04.08.2011 21:39, Aurélien Leblond wrote:
> 2. More interrestingly, the "appeal to famous artists" didn't seem to
> be well received... What seems to come out though is that although the
> FOSS community seems to be good to produce software, we don't seem to
> be good at advertising it :)
> - Ardour has...49 followers on facebook... Nothing on the wall...
> - Hydrogen...94...and one entry on the wall...
> - Couldn't find a # tag for any of these on Twitter...
>
Unbelievable that we are missing the chances here. You would expect
that opensource projects (like Ardour) see these social media as a
godsend.
Hi Aurélien,
as a developer of hydrogen let me chime in here.. I think it could be
a good idea
to think a little bit about the "marketing" of our applications. At
the moment
the presentation of hydrogen is more or less restricted to our
homepage and our mailing lists.
Underground! ;)
I've posted rarely to a facebook group (i
think you didn't find it),
but that was all. It's hard and cumbersome to use all channels at
once (twitter, google+, etc...) if all you want to do is publish a
release notification or something like this..
There are social media clients which
can handle multiple accounts very
well. One message will be posted on all your accounts (e.g. twitter,
identica, facebook, ...)
> I know I know, we are not advertisers, we are
developers!
> But what if a small group of us (and yeah, including me :)) would do
> that?
Right, not all developers are good in marketing or project management
(binding users, cooperation with other devs, donations etc.). But why
not ask a enthusiastic user to start a twitter account for the project
and report news, howtos and interact with users/ reviewers etc.
Regards,
\r 
1:46 a.m.
New subject: Social Media (was: An appeal to famous artists?)
On 08/04/2011 10:55 PM, Sebastian Moors wrote:
To make social media work we need as many people as possible posting
links, comments and trending topics. Given that we have several thousand
people in this community it is theoretically possible for us to make some
significant impact if we wanted.
Of coure getting people to participate will require some planning and
coercion. Offering prizes usually works but only if the company offering
the prize can see an roi...
We have a few companies who could be motivated to spend money on such
things if we were able to come up with a system that worked for them.
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
On 04.08.2011 21:39, Aurélien Leblond wrote:
> 2. More interrestingly, the "appeal to famous artists" didn't seem to
> be well received... What seems to come out though is that although the
> FOSS community seems to be good to produce software, we don't seem to
> be good at advertising it :)
> - Ardour has...49 followers on facebook... Nothing on the wall...
> - Hydrogen...94...and one entry on the wall...
> - Couldn't find a # tag for any of these on Twitter...
>
Unbelievable that we are missing the chances here. You would expect that
opensource projects (like Ardour) see these social media as a godsend.
Hi Aurélien,
as a developer of hydrogen let me chime in here.. I think it could be
a good idea
to think a little bit about the "marketing" of our applications. At
the moment
the presentation of hydrogen is more or less restricted to our
homepage and our mailing lists.
Underground! ;)
I've posted rarely to a facebook group (i
think you didn't find it),
but that was all. It's hard and cumbersome to use all channels at once
(twitter, google+, etc...) if all you want to do is publish a release
notification or something like this..
There are social media clients which can
handle multiple accounts very
well. One message will be posted on all your accounts (e.g. twitter,
identica, facebook, ...)
> I know I know, we are not advertisers, we are
developers!
> But what if a small group of us (and yeah, including me :)) would do
> that?
Right, not all developers are good in marketing or project management
(binding users, cooperation with other devs, donations etc.). But why
not ask a enthusiastic user to start a twitter account for the project
and report news, howtos and interact with users/ reviewers etc.
1:12 p.m.
New subject: Social Media
On 08/04/2011 11:59 PM, rosea grammostola wrote:
Unbelievable that we are missing the chances here.
That's no wonder. You'll probably agree with me that there are like 4 or
5 people using Linux audio on a serious basis in the Netherlands. The
Netherlands has 16,7 million inhabitants, worldwide there are 6,9
billion souls so some maths yields: (5 / 16.700.000) * 6.900.000.000 =
2066 serious Linux audio users world wide. If this would be a realistic
figure we have a long way to go, it is just a too small user base.
My 2¢: social media don't work for Linux Audio. I think the only thing
that does work is good video tutorials, that's really big at the moment,
good blogs and decent articles on authorative sites and in printed
magazines. All the other things are imho not useful. Twitter, Facebook,
Google+ won't work, simply too much dispersion, people don't collaborate
on these platforms, they only click on buttons and leave pointless
comments. My girlfriend just bought me the latest Linux Format and the
only audio related article it contains is an article by Jono Bacon who
recommends using Jokosher. Ok, it's about podcasting but we can do
better than that! There are so many people making music with their
computers and still Linux is considered not a viable option because it's
supposedly for geeks, nerds and technically savvy folks. I call BS, with
the band I convinced the others to ditch Cubase in favor of Qtractor
because every rehearsal session we were totally lost again on how to
record a simple track. And it takes me longer to properly configure a
Windows machine than a Linux one for audio usage. People need to open up
and look further than what they get crammed in their mouths. And some
others on the list have said it before, musical breakthroughs don't
always come from talented artists but also from people who do things
differently. Who cut up speaker cones to get a distorted sound
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guitar_distortion#History), who experiment
with multitrack recording while it doesn't even properly exist
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multitrack_recording#Process) or who start
using autotuners as an effect
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autotune#In_popular_music). And you know
what? Linux Audio is the perfect starting point imo for doing things
differently, not only because it is different but also because it's
completely free. And that's what musicians might appeal in the near
future, sheer freedom. Within 50 years the record labels have managed to
destroy their own businesses simply by taking away the musician's
freedom, it's a matter of years before musicians start to follow the
examples of Radiohead and Nine Inch Nails and regain their freedom. So
yes, we have to play that political card, the time is right, more and
more people are considering FLOSS as a viable option (that includes
Neelie Kroes, the EU Commissioner for Digital Agenda:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neelie_Kroes#Commissioner_for_Digital_Agenda)
and those are not just the people buying biological food or pieces of
land in the Amazon to reduce their ecological footprint.
And what we really need is quality stuff, quality music, quality videos,
quality live stuff. There is waaaaaaaay too little available at the
moment while it is perfectly possible to create quality music with
Linux. We need more Ken Restivo's, more Sebkha Chott's, more Louigi
Verona's (and any other talent hanging around here that I might forget,
sorry beforehand). We need a buzz, a technique, a workflow that yields
something unique that makes people wonder how it was done, that makes
people crave to reproduce that uniqueness so they can start destroying
it again ;)
Best,
Jeremy
1:26 p.m.
New subject: Social Media
On 08/05/2011 01:12 PM, Jeremy Jongepier wrote:
On 08/04/2011 11:59 PM, rosea grammostola wrote:
Wow, you took your time! :)
I agree for 98% with you. But don't you think that we should do both? I
am not talking about a advertising campaign, but don't you think that a
active Ardour account on social media could help to make people aware of
the possibilities of Ardour and Linux for music production in general?
It's a nice way to inform people about the plans and progress of Ardour
3 for instance. MuseScore is proven that it works as we speak.
/Wat een boer niet kent/, /dat/ eet hij /niet/!* :)
\r
*
http://translate.google.com/#auto|en|Wat%20een%20boer%20niet%20kent%2C%20da…
Unbelievable that we are missing the chances
here.
That's no wonder. You'll probably agree with me that there are like 4
or 5 people using Linux audio on a serious basis in the Netherlands.
The Netherlands has 16,7 million inhabitants, worldwide there are 6,9
billion souls so some maths yields: (5 / 16.700.000) * 6.900.000.000 =
2066 serious Linux audio users world wide. If this would be a
realistic figure we have a long way to go, it is just a too small user
base.
My 2¢: social media don't work for Linux Audio. I think the only thing
that does work is good video tutorials, that's really big at the
moment, good blogs and decent articles on authorative sites and in
printed magazines. All the other things are imho not useful. Twitter,
Facebook, Google+ won't work, simply too much dispersion, people don't
collaborate on these platforms, they only click on buttons and leave
pointless comments. My girlfriend just bought me the latest Linux
Format and the only audio related article it contains is an article by
Jono Bacon who recommends using Jokosher. Ok, it's about podcasting
but we can do better than that! There are so many people making music
with their computers and still Linux is considered not a viable option
because it's supposedly for geeks, nerds and technically savvy folks.
I call BS, with the band I convinced the others to ditch Cubase in
favor of Qtractor because every rehearsal session we were totally lost
again on how to record a simple track. And it takes me longer to
properly configure a Windows machine than a Linux one for audio usage.
People need to open up and look further than what they get crammed in
their mouths. And some others on the list have said it before, musical
breakthroughs don't always come from talented artists but also from
people who do things differently. Who cut up speaker cones to get a
distorted sound
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guitar_distortion#History), who
experiment with multitrack recording while it doesn't even properly
exist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multitrack_recording#Process) or
who start using autotuners as an effect
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autotune#In_popular_music). And you know
what? Linux Audio is the perfect starting point imo for doing things
differently, not only because it is different but also because it's
completely free. And that's what musicians might appeal in the near
future, sheer freedom. Within 50 years the record labels have managed
to destroy their own businesses simply by taking away the musician's
freedom, it's a matter of years before musicians start to follow the
examples of Radiohead and Nine Inch Nails and regain their freedom. So
yes, we have to play that political card, the time is right, more and
more people are considering FLOSS as a viable option (that includes
Neelie Kroes, the EU Commissioner for Digital Agenda:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neelie_Kroes#Commissioner_for_Digital_Agenda)
and those are not just the people buying biological food or pieces of
land in the Amazon to reduce their ecological footprint.
And what we really need is quality stuff, quality music, quality
videos, quality live stuff. There is waaaaaaaay too little available
at the moment while it is perfectly possible to create quality music
with Linux. We need more Ken Restivo's, more Sebkha Chott's, more
Louigi Verona's (and any other talent hanging around here that I might
forget, sorry beforehand). We need a buzz, a technique, a workflow
that yields something unique that makes people wonder how it was done,
that makes people crave to reproduce that uniqueness so they can start
destroying it again ;)
1:47 p.m.
New subject: Social Media
On 08/05/2011 01:24 PM, rosea grammostola wrote:
Wow, you took your time! :)
I agree for 98% with you. But don't you think that we should do both? I
am not talking about a advertising campaign, but don't you think that a
active Ardour account on social media could help to make people aware of
the possibilities of Ardour and Linux for music production in general?
I have my doubts, I think the method Alexander Prokoudine described
would be more effective. But every little bit counts so it's not
necessarily a bad thing. I just have my doubts about its effectiveness.
Could be I'm biased too, I have a growing aversion towards social media ;)
It's a nice way to inform people about the plans
and progress of Ardour
3 for instance. MuseScore is proven that it works as we speak.
/Wat een boer niet kent/, /dat/ eet hij /niet/!* :)
What a farmer doesn't know he won't accept easily from a non-authorative
source either. We need more Peter Kirn's and Dave Phillips'!
Best,
Jeremy
6 Aug
6 Aug
7:27 a.m.
New subject: Social Media
On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 3:24 PM, rosea grammostola wrote:
I agree for 98% with you. But don't you think that
we should do both? I am
not talking about a advertising campaign, but don't you think that a active
Ardour account on social media could help to make people aware of the
possibilities of Ardour and Linux for music production in general? It's a
nice way to inform people about the plans and progress of Ardour 3 for
instance. MuseScore is proven that it works as we speak.
OK. @ardour was taken, so now there is http://twitter.com/#!/ardourdaw
I'm setting up updating the feed from ardour.org's RSS via ping.fm
right now, and it's possible to add more networks to ping
automatically. I'll be happy to pass administration of both accounts
to Paul (when he's back from vacation), Carl or Thomas.
Alexandre Prokoudine
http://libregraphicsworld.org
7:09 a.m.
New subject: Social Media
On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 3:12 PM, Jeremy Jongepier wrote:
My 2¢: social media don't work for Linux Audio. I
think the only thing that
does work is good video tutorials, that's really big at the moment, good
blogs and decent articles on authorative sites and in printed magazines.
I think you really want to expand your understanding of what social
media is. All of the above except printed magazines is part of it :)
the other things are imho not useful. Twitter,
Facebook, Google+ won't work,
simply too much dispersion, people don't collaborate on these platforms,
they only click on buttons and leave pointless comments.
That's quite an exxageration. I do some techsupport for Inkscape, GIMP
and Scribus via Twitter. It's actually useful for helping people solve
simple issues. That's not a direct marketing, but it helps preserving
user base. Of course, one could go beyond that.
I call BS, with the band I convinced the others to
ditch Cubase in favor of
Qtractor because every rehearsal session we were totally lost again on how
to record a simple track.
You mean you didn't know how to use Cubase? :)
And what we really need is quality stuff, quality
music, quality videos,
quality live stuff. There is waaaaaaaay too little available at the moment
while it is perfectly possible to create quality music with Linux. We need
more Ken Restivo's, more Sebkha Chott's, more Louigi Verona's (and any other
talent hanging around here that I might forget, sorry beforehand). We need a
buzz, a technique, a workflow that yields something unique that makes people
wonder how it was done, that makes people crave to reproduce that uniqueness
so they can start destroying it again ;)
Completely agreed :)
Alexandre Prokoudine
http://libregraphicsworld.org
11:43 a.m.
New subject: Social Media
On 08/06/2011 07:09 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
I know. I've already replied to Rosea where that originates from. Next
time I'll keep the whole picture in mind :)
I do some techsupport for Inkscape, GIMP
On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 3:12 PM, Jeremy Jongepier
wrote:
Hello Alexandre,
You're right, I'm confusing social media and social networking services.
I meant the latter.
My 2¢: social media don't work for Linux
Audio. I think the only thing that
does work is good video tutorials, that's really big at the moment, good
blogs and decent articles on authorative sites and in printed magazines.
I think you really want to expand your understanding of what social
media is. All of the above except printed magazines is part of it :)
the other
things are imho not useful. Twitter, Facebook, Google+ won't work,
simply too much dispersion, people don't collaborate on these platforms,
they only click on buttons and leave pointless comments.
That's quite an exxageration. and Scribus via Twitter. It's actually useful for
helping people solve
simple issues. That's not a direct marketing, but it helps preserving
user base. Of course, one could go beyond that.
Ha ha, yeah, that's true. We even borrowed a 300 page Cubase book from a
friend but still we didn't manage.
Best,
Jeremy
I call BS, with the band I convinced the others
to ditch Cubase in favor of
Qtractor because every rehearsal session we were totally lost again on how
to record a simple track.
You mean you didn't know how to use Cubase? :)
9:55 p.m.
New subject: Social Media
Jeremy Jongepier wrote:
On 08/06/2011 07:09 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
I know. I've already replied to Rosea where that originates from. Next
time I'll keep the whole picture in mind :)
I do some techsupport for Inkscape, GIMP
Well, for comparison, I once tried to make a simple stereo recording
using Ardour, and was completely unable to figure it out. But pro-level
software is complex and assumes that its user has a lot of
domain-specific knowledge (is an experienced audio engineer). I don't
fault the UI for that!
--
David
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 3:12 PM, Jeremy
Jongepier wrote:
Hello Alexandre,
You're right, I'm confusing social media and social networking services.
I meant the latter.
My 2¢: social media don't work for Linux
Audio. I think the only
thing that
does work is good video tutorials, that's really big at the moment, good
blogs and decent articles on authorative sites and in printed magazines.
I think you really want to expand your understanding of what social
media is. All of the above except printed magazines is part of it :)
the other
things are imho not useful. Twitter, Facebook, Google+
won't work,
simply too much dispersion, people don't collaborate on these platforms,
they only click on buttons and leave pointless comments.
That's quite an exxageration. and Scribus via Twitter. It's actually useful
for helping people solve
simple issues. That's not a direct marketing, but it helps preserving
user base. Of course, one could go beyond that.
Ha ha, yeah, that's true. We even borrowed a 300 page Cubase book from a
friend but still we didn't manage. I call BS, with the band I convinced the others
to ditch Cubase in
favor of
Qtractor because every rehearsal session we were totally lost again
on how
to record a simple track.
You mean you didn't know how to use Cubase? :) 
7 Aug
7 Aug
7:42 a.m.
New subject: Social Media
Le 06/08/2011 21:55, david a écrit :
Jeremy Jongepier wrote:
Ardour is a really step above Cubase...
On 08/06/2011 07:09 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine
wrote:
I know. I've already replied to Rosea where that originates from.
Next time I'll keep the whole picture in mind :)
I do some techsupport for Inkscape, GIMP
Well, for comparison, I once tried to make a simple stereo recording
using Ardour, and was completely unable to figure it out. But
pro-level software is complex and assumes that its user has a lot of
domain-specific knowledge (is an experienced audio engineer). I don't
fault the UI for that!
On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 3:12 PM, Jeremy
Jongepier wrote:
Hello Alexandre,
You're right, I'm confusing social media and social networking
services. I meant the latter.
My 2¢: social media don't work for Linux
Audio. I think the only
thing that
does work is good video tutorials, that's really big at the moment,
good
blogs and decent articles on authorative sites and in printed
magazines.
I think you really want to expand your understanding of what social
media is. All of the above except printed magazines is part of it :)
the other
things are imho not useful. Twitter, Facebook, Google+
won't work,
simply too much dispersion, people don't collaborate on these
platforms,
they only click on buttons and leave pointless comments.
That's quite an exxageration. and Scribus via Twitter. It's actually useful
for helping people solve
simple issues. That's not a direct marketing, but it helps preserving
user base. Of course, one could go beyond that.
Ha ha, yeah, that's true. We even borrowed a 300 page Cubase book
from a friend but still we didn't manage. I call BS, with the band I convinced the others
to ditch Cubase in
favor of
Qtractor because every rehearsal session we were totally lost again
on how
to record a simple track.
You mean you didn't know how to use Cubase? :)
9:08 a.m.
New subject: Social Media
fred wrote:
Le 06/08/2011 21:55, david a écrit :
I'm not the one who tried to use Cubase, so I'll take your word for it.
--
David
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
Jeremy Jongepier wrote:
Ardour is a really step above Cubase... On 08/06/2011 07:09 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine
wrote:
Well, for comparison, I once tried to make a simple stereo recording
using Ardour, and was completely unable to figure it out. But
pro-level software is complex and assumes that its user has a lot of
domain-specific knowledge (is an experienced audio engineer). I don't
fault the UI for that!
On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 3:12 PM, Jeremy
Jongepier wrote:
> My 2¢: social media don't work for Linux Audio. I think the only
> thing that
> does work is good video tutorials, that's really big at the moment,
> good
> blogs and decent articles on authorative sites and in printed
> magazines.
I think you really want to expand your understanding of what social
media is. All of the above except printed magazines is part of it :)
Hello Alexandre,
You're right, I'm confusing social media and social networking
services. I meant the latter.
> the other things are imho not useful.
Twitter, Facebook, Google+
> won't work,
> simply too much dispersion, people don't collaborate on these
> platforms,
> they only click on buttons and leave pointless comments.
That's quite an exxageration.
I know. I've already replied to Rosea where that originates from.
Next time I'll keep the whole picture in mind :)
I do some techsupport for Inkscape, GIMP
and Scribus via Twitter. It's actually useful
for helping people solve
simple issues. That's not a direct marketing, but it helps preserving
user base. Of course, one could go beyond that.
> I call BS, with the band I convinced the others to ditch Cubase in
> favor of
> Qtractor because every rehearsal session we were totally lost again
> on how
> to record a simple track.
You mean you didn't know how to use Cubase? :)
Ha ha, yeah, that's true. We even borrowed a 300 page Cubase book
from a friend but still we didn't manage. 
7 Jun
7 Jun
7:03 p.m.
New subject: Social Media
2011-08-07 9:08 GMT+02:00 david <gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com>om>:
fred wrote:
Hello dear all.
First, my apologies for rescuing this thread from the sands of time of
LAU. But I bumped into this working on some of my projects I'm
struggling to bring to the (web)light at last, and those words from
Jeremy and your responses totally resonate with me, and the concept
seems to be present nowadays even when this thread goes back to 2011.
I just wanted to let go some words about the subject.
I think Tools don't make the Artist. But it's clear that it's really
helpful when a really well known artist or a great mixer/producer
shows up in a video using tool X (multifx, plugin, daw...). Because if
they are good at what they do it usually seems it's so easy to do Y
(play, mix, record...) with that tool that the tool itself benefits
from that perception, and people think that is the tool that's making
them do what they do. And big enterprises, of course, take advantage
of this, along with beautiful eye-candy graphical interfaces.
So if there is well produced quality material that demonstrate how to
get an amazing guitar FX, how to easily record yourself in you're
room, how to mix you're band... then people might get the seminal idea
of "hey, this works", and after that maybe they might be interested in
going a little deeper and getting to know that those tools also take
care of their rights and freedom and all that philosophy we are
already aware of.
That is critical to be aware of: Humans hate or are not comfortable
with changes, and non tech-savvy people usually just care about if it
"just works", and much better if it has a nice GUI; and moreover if
there's some neighbor/friend that can make them a copy of the tool and
teach them how to use it. Word of mouth is of course invaluable.
Modestly, I still trying to do what I can from various perspectives,
and hopefully I'll be taking another further steps to give at least
just a little back of all that I receive from so many talented people
that free their knowledge... and their software and projects as well.
It seems that even all of us along with many people in the FLOSS
community still trying to go against the current, the established, the
easy way, there's way to go.
But, again, it feels that nowadays, given so many changes that are
happening, there's another chance to make a shift. Still trying to
think global and act local, and still trying to put my modest and tiny
two cents.
Sorry for that lengthy spiel.
Thanks you all.
--
C. sanchiavedraZ:
* NEW / NUEVO: www.sanchiavedraZ.com
* Musix GNU+Linux: www.musix.es
Le 06/08/2011 21:55, david a écrit :
I'm not the one who tried to use Cubase, so I'll take your word for it.
--
David
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
Jeremy Jongepier wrote:
Ardour is a really step above Cubase...
On 08/06/2011 07:09 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
>
> On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 3:12 PM, Jeremy Jongepier wrote:
>
>> My 2¢: social media don't work for Linux Audio. I think the only thing
>> that
>> does work is good video tutorials, that's really big at the moment,
>> good
>> blogs and decent articles on authorative sites and in printed
>> magazines.
>
>
> I think you really want to expand your understanding of what social
> media is. All of the above except printed magazines is part of it :)
>
Hello Alexandre,
You're right, I'm confusing social media and social networking services.
I meant the latter.
>> the other things are imho not useful. Twitter, Facebook, Google+ won't
>> work,
>> simply too much dispersion, people don't collaborate on these
>> platforms,
>> they only click on buttons and leave pointless comments.
>
>
> That's quite an exxageration.
I know. I've already replied to Rosea where that originates from. Next
time I'll keep the whole picture in mind :)
I do some techsupport for Inkscape, GIMP
>
> and Scribus via Twitter. It's actually useful for helping people solve
> simple issues. That's not a direct marketing, but it helps preserving
> user base. Of course, one could go beyond that.
>
>> I call BS, with the band I convinced the others to ditch Cubase in
>> favor of
>> Qtractor because every rehearsal session we were totally lost again on
>> how
>> to record a simple track.
>
>
> You mean you didn't know how to use Cubase? :)
Ha ha, yeah, that's true. We even borrowed a 300 page Cubase book from a
friend but still we didn't manage.
Well, for comparison, I once tried to make a simple stereo recording
using Ardour, and was completely unable to figure it out. But pro-level
software is complex and assumes that its user has a lot of domain-specific
knowledge (is an experienced audio engineer). I don't fault the UI for that!
5 Aug
5 Aug
1:39 a.m.
New subject: An appeal to famous artists?
On 04.08.2011 21:39, Aurélien Leblond wrote:
That is happening to a small degree. But we don't have a package we cn
roll out if the opportunity arises.
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
2. More interrestingly, the "appeal to
famous artists" didn't seem to
be well received... What seems to come out though is that although the
FOSS community seems to be good to produce software, we don't seem to
be good at advertising it :)
- Ardour has...49 followers on facebook... Nothing on the wall...
- Hydrogen...94...and one entry on the wall...
- Couldn't find a # tag for any of these on Twitter...
Hi Aurélien,
as a developer of hydrogen let me chime in here.. I think it could be a
good idea
to think a little bit about the "marketing" of our applications. At the
moment
the presentation of hydrogen is more or less restricted to our homepage
and our mailing lists.
I've posted rarely to a facebook group (i think you didn't find it), but
that was all. It's hard and cumbersome to use all channels at once
(twitter, google+, etc...) if all you want to do is publish a release
notification or something like this..
I know I know, we are not advertisers, we are
developers!
But what if a small group of us (and yeah, including me :)) would do
that?
Do you have any specific ideas there? Maybe a "linux audio booth"
at
fairs would be a nice idea as a joined project. I had this idea earlier
for hydrogen, but it is very hard for one small project to organize (and
pay for) such an event.
- Sebastian
1:37 a.m.
New subject: An appeal to famous artists?
My
question/answer: "How much are you willing to do to make it
happen?"
Well I'm not exactly sure anymore to be honest, I didn't think my
message would start such a rant!
But after reading all the answered, two things seem to stand out:
1. A lot of the FOSS music software are not for the general public. I
wouldn't agree myself (I mean, Ardour, Hydrogen or Yoshimi are as
straight forward as a music software can be)... And for that, nothing
much I/we can do but participate to the code (which I do when I can),
make donations (which I do every year), provide feedback, provide bug
reports, etc, etc, etc...
And obvisouly use the software and produce some tunes! Which I do too:
http://soundcloud.com/a-violent-whisper
(Although now I realise that nowhere I say that it's completely
recorded/produced with only FOSS softwares!)
2. More interrestingly, the "appeal to famous artists" didn't seem to
be well received... What seems to come out though is that although the
FOSS community seems to be good to produce software, we don't seem to
be good at advertising it :)
- Ardour has...49 followers on facebook... Nothing on the wall...
- Hydrogen...94...and one entry on the wall...
- Couldn't find a # tag for any of these on Twitter...
I know I know, we are not advertisers, we are developers!
But what if a small group of us (and yeah, including me :)) would do that?
How do we go about that? We have loads of website/tools to share code
and software (sourceforge, svn, git, etc..), but none to organise
ourself into a community to create some kind of organised campagn of
advertisement on social networks (or other tools)!
What I have in mind is what was done by ThisOneIsOnUs... what they did
for their production is exacty what we do every day for FOSS
software...
Any ideas?
-Mike Mazarick
PS - sorry for the top posting, but I thought it better in this instance
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
-----Original Message-----
From: Aurélien Leblond [mailto:blablack@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 11:07 AM
To: linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
Subject: [LAU] An appeal to famous artists?
I'm writing this post because of a few experiences I had over the
years into world of amateur music production (but I'm sure it does
applies to every artistic domains).
I'm an amateur musician and a Linux enthusiast, and even though I work
as a developer, my professional activity doesn't directly have
anything to do with both these
domains (although in the case of Linux this is quite a shame, but
that's another subject). But one thing I am surrounded with at work is
fellow musicians.
I have setup a pretty nice home studio in my flat: electronic drumkit,
alright USB sound-card, good quality speakers, electric guitar, pretty
big guitar fx board, USB
keyboard with a lot of knobs, few synthesizers and......a laptop
running Ubuntu, Ardour, Hydrogen, AlsaModularSynth, Yoshimi, LV2, etc,
etc and etc...
A few of these colleagues came to my place to play music, and all of
them were impressed by the level of investment, and invariably the
first question that comes
up is the price of all the hardware and software... So when I
explained that I gathered the hardware over the last few years and
that the software is free, I always get
that little wink and smile:
- haaaa 'free'? Bittorent yeah?
- no no no...not THAT free... I'm using Linux, and I'm trying to make
a point of using only free software in my music production... Actually
it's not free as you think it is,
I do try to make some donations every year, blablabla...
And invariably, I get the look (you all know which one I'm talking
about)...
As the sessions go on and my colleagues see the different software in
actions, they always start to make the comparison with what they use
in other OS: Wouah I
can't do that with my drum machine! And this software Ardour is pretty
cool, and I really like the sound of this synthesizer! What is it?
AlsaModularMix you say?
Well it looks weird but I like it!...
Then as the conversation goes on on gears and software, it generally
goes like this oh, I bought this synth because Trent Reznor from Nine
Inch Nails is using it
and I wanted to get that sound..., this guitar fx? Bought it because
the guys in Slayer are using it and I love (yes all my mates and
myself are metal heads!).
So I started to think... And I thought a little bit more... All the
people I know in the music world, we always use references to known
artist: Trent Reznor uses this,
The Edge uses that, Brian Eno has this synth, etc. There is even a
website that list the gears used by famous guitar players.
I have a couple of friends back in my home country who are trying to
build up a recording studio... They work 100 hours a week recording
and promoting local bands,
they eat pasta because the money is tight.......but they spent I don't
know how much into brand new Macs and software licenses...
I can hear you from here already WHY DID YOU NOT TELL THEM ABOUT
LINUX???
Well......I did:
- Yeah RIGHT! Every known musicians use Macs! They are designed for
artists!
Really? Who decided that? Aaaaaaahhhhh yeah I forgot, Apple is very
good at advertisement... See that little illuminated apple at the back
of every of their laptops?
That sticks out well when Trent Reznor posts pictures of his studio,
or when you see pictures of ?uestLove on stage...
- Linux and stuff... It's for free... It must sucks... I mean you
need loads of research and money to create the software to play
music...
Really?
- It's not stable enough...
Ok, I give you that... But we have come a long way... And I bet that a
good Ubuntu setup without alpha or beta versions of any software would
be stable...
And obviously the user base on proprietary software is bigger, so more
testers, more feedbacks... But hey, look at my laptop, pretty stable
no?
- It's too complicated... with these command lines and all...
Hmmm yes and no there... Yes setting up a Linux machine with a low
latency kernel is quite complicated... But remind me how much did you
spent to setup your
Mac? And yeah you are right, we used command lines in Linux... But YOU
don't have to! When was the last time you saw a Linux machine? Ah
yeah, when I
show you my Mandrake machine 10 years ago... Well we came a long way
since that time, you should check it again! I mean playing, recording
and producing
music on a computer IS a complicated business, whatever OS you use.
- And when it doesn't work, who do I ask?
Hmmmm, when Cubase doesn't work, what do you do? Oh yeah, you google
your issue and you browse around forums to find a solutions...
Actually when you have an issue with your mac in general, is it Apple
or a dude on some forums who gives you the solution?
So I thought a little bit more... In the world of artists (I thinking
here especially about music, but it is probably right in other
artistic domains), brands are created
because artists use them, no?
And SERIOUSLY, in the world of music, the Open Source world certainly
have brilliant tools! And the Open Source certainly has to speak to a
lot of artist if they
knew about it? The sense of freedom, the sense of sharing? Isn't it
what Bob Marley or Rage Against the Machine were singing about?
Trent Reznor (yes, I am a big fan) has been releasing music under
Creative Common licenses... He let the people decide how much they
wanted to pay for
some of his albums (remind you of something? Donations?). He let fans
record all the concerts of his last tour, let them mix it, cut it,
produce it, package it and
sale it (check out ThisOneIsOnUs). He even provided the tracks of some
songs for the fan to have fun and mix them differently... Surely a guy
like that would
understand the value of Free Software. And where there is one, there
might be others...
(Sorry for the long introduction but) What I am getting at is this:
Should we make an appeal to artists to produce something using only
Open Source software?
What do you guys think? Isn't it the best time to promulgate such a
message, with the social media and all? And if yes, what would be the
best way?
Or am I completely wrong? And there is something in the big picture I
didn't see?
2:43 a.m.
New subject: An appeal to famous artists?
On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 11:39 PM, Aurélien Leblond wrote:
2. More interrestingly, the "appeal to famous
artists" didn't seem to
be well received... What seems to come out though is that although the
FOSS community seems to be good to produce software, we don't seem to
be good at advertising it :)
- Ardour has...49 followers on facebook... Nothing on the wall...
- Hydrogen...94...and one entry on the wall...
- Couldn't find a # tag for any of these on Twitter...
I know I know, we are not advertisers, we are developers!
But what if a small group of us (and yeah, including me :)) would do that?
How do we go about that? We have loads of website/tools to share code
and software (sourceforge, svn, git, etc..), but none to organise
ourself into a community to create some kind of organised campagn of
advertisement on social networks (or other tools)!
Again, no book of recipes here.
You got it right that people tend to listen to authorities (for good
and bad reasons), but how about turning yourself into one? This is a
hard way to go. The good news is that it might not take dozens of
years to happen.
People are attracted by knowledge. Do you hang around in communities
of DAW users who are on Mac and Windows? Do you know useful tricks
that work across platforms? Like using compressors right for
particular tasks? You can share what you know without unloading Linux
propaganda on people, but if you keep giving useful hints that work
and you consistently use recognizable screenshots with Ardour or
whatever it is you use, eventually you become authority who is known
to make a good use of Linux.
Have a look at http://audio.tutsplus.com/. They have loads of
tutorials where authors say something like "I used X app with Y
plugin, but the general idea works pretty much everywhere". That's the
right approach: people learn something new and they don't feel like
they are being dragged to a particular solution (while in fact they
are :))
This has a lot of social engineering in it.
By the way, I think Create Digital Music is probably the only industry
blog that publishes up to date information on Linux audio/MIDI
software. Few others that do tend to get things wrong or, like
aforementioned audiotuts, re-publish old outdated stuff. Well, there
is a beast called guest blogging. You could try it. Just make sure you
write convincing material.
Alexandre Prokoudine
http://libregraphicsworld.org
3605
days inactive
4643
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
17 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
Alexandre Prokoudine -
Aurélien Leblond -
Carlos sanchiavedraz -
david -
fred -
Jeremy Jongepier -
pshirkey＠boosthardware.com -
rosea grammostola -
Sebastian Moors