17 Mar
2014
17 Mar
'14
12:04 a.m.
In light of the interesting discussion on sample rates I propose a music
competition among LAU around production of music pieces with quality
considered 'low' by current dominating professional/audiophile standards
in the digital domain:
Specifics to be discussed, but I would start with the following:
1. Final piece shall be delivered with a maximum sampling rate of 32kHz.
Lower sample rates .allowed.
2. Final bit depth of the file shall not exceed 8 bit.
- Possible variations/additions to this restriction:
- allow dithering?
- allow 4/8bit codecs (e.g. ADPCM, ulaw)?
- mono/stereo?
- simply impose a max duration and max filesize (but keep sr and bit
thresholds... and variations..)?
- Participants shall strongly focus on exploring and exploiting the
imposed limitations in a creative and artistic way
Other specs, voting mechanisms, competition arrangements, prizes, ... ???
Ciao,
Lorenzo.
17 Mar
17 Mar
3:20 a.m.
On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 7:04 PM, Lorenzo Sutton <lorenzofsutton(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
In light of the interesting discussion on sample rates
I propose a music
competition among LAU around production of music pieces with quality
considered 'low' by current dominating professional/audiophile standards in
the digital domain:
Specifics to be discussed, but I would start with the following:
can we just re-record the beatles or miles davis from vinyl and consider it
done?
6:25 a.m.
On 03/16/2014 04:20 PM, Paul Davis wrote:
On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 7:04 PM, Lorenzo Sutton
<lorenzofsutton(a)gmail.com <mailto:lorenzofsutton@gmail.com>> wrote:
In light of the interesting discussion on sample rates I propose a
music competition among LAU around production of music pieces with
quality considered 'low' by current dominating
professional/audiophile standards in the digital domain:
Specifics to be discussed, but I would start with the following:
can we just re-record the beatles or miles davis from vinyl and consider
it done?
Or maybe you mean how music sounded on old battery-powered AM portable
radios? I've heard quite a bit of it in the last few days, it seems to
be the sound quality that Amazon Kindle Support provides for their
"music on hold" ...
Or 1/4" inch tape cassettes? 8-track tapes?
--
David W. Jones
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://dancingtreefrog.com
9:30 a.m.
On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 07:25:32PM -1000, david wrote:
Or maybe you mean how music sounded on old
battery-powered AM
portable radios?
Isn't stereo AM supposed to be better than stereo FM?
P.S. I've never personally heard stereo AM, but the stations compress
the bejesus out of their FM transmissions -- bloody horrible!
--
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the
oppressing." --- Malcolm X
9:46 a.m.
You can take a look at the passed Speedbass event called Spitbass with
a similar concept back in 2002. 8 bit, 8KHz electro music.
http://www.speedbass.net/Downloads/sublevel/cid/2/start/0
Checking back there i noticed my (Jerash) contributions have broken
links. So i'll make them up again to apply the competition.
Raphaël
2014-03-17 9:30 UTC+01:00, Chris Bannister <cbannister(a)slingshot.co.nz>nz>:
On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 07:25:32PM -1000, david
wrote:
Or maybe you mean how music sounded on old
battery-powered AM
portable radios?
Isn't stereo AM supposed to be better than stereo FM?
P.S. I've never personally heard stereo AM, but the stations compress
the bejesus out of their FM transmissions -- bloody horrible!
--
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the
oppressing." --- Malcolm X
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
20 Mar
20 Mar
6:58 a.m.
On 17/03/14 19:46, Raphaël Mouneyres wrote:
> Isn't stereo AM supposed to be better than
stereo FM?
>
> P.S. I've never personally heard stereo AM, but the stations compress
> the bejesus out of their FM transmissions -- bloody horrible!
Depends on the taste of the audience and station. FM here started with serious
music stations, with the audience mostly using good receivers in a good sound
system. And was very much better quality than AM at the time, not lo-fi sound at
all unless played on a tiny little portable ... but since they were not
compressing you lost most of the music in that case.
Simon
19 Mar
19 Mar
7:58 p.m.
On 03/16/2014 10:30 PM, Chris Bannister wrote:
On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 07:25:32PM -1000, david
wrote:
I couldn't tell. I don't think I've ever heard stereo AM. They probably
compress the bejesus out of AM stereo transmissions, too, because they
have to overcome the same problem regardless of frequency range
(variable signal strength), right?
When I was listening to AM radio on old portable battery-powered AM
radios, there was no AM stereo. FM was the only broadcast option for
stereo at the time. I quit listening to AM radio in 1970 when the local
Top 40 station's listeners voted a very young Michael Jackson "male"
vocalist of the year.
But regardless of the signal type, the radio circuitry that converted it
to audio generally wasn't even close to the best, and they certainly
didn't put a pile of money into the single, typically small, speaker.
Then add in the possible effects of aging on components.
Someone on the list must have an old portable AM radio still hanging
around in a box in the attic. I might have one, but it's off somewhere
on the mainland if it even still exists. Well, my mother probably still
has the old AC/Delco "battery" AM radio my dad's former employer gave
away ages ago. What an eBay-collectible item that would be now!
--
David W. Jones
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://dancingtreefrog.com
Or maybe you mean how music sounded on old
battery-powered AM
portable radios?
Isn't stereo AM supposed to be better than stereo FM?
P.S. I've never personally heard stereo AM, but the stations compress
the bejesus out of their FM transmissions -- bloody horrible!
20 Mar
20 Mar
7:11 a.m.
On 20/03/14 05:58, david wrote:
I couldn't tell. I don't think I've ever
heard stereo AM. They probably compress
the bejesus out of AM stereo transmissions, too, because they have to overcome
the same problem regardless of frequency range (variable signal strength), right?
no .. signal strength is a more significant problem with AM, the audio signal is
based on the amplitude envelope of the carrier signal, while in FM the frequency
of the carrier signal is varied according to the audio, and the receiver follows
that. That is of course a simplification, but they are quite different.
Simon
22 Mar
22 Mar
6:41 a.m.
On 03/19/2014 08:10 PM, Simon Wise wrote:
On 20/03/14 05:58, david wrote:
Cool, thanks for clarifying that.
--
David W. Jones
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://dancingtreefrog.com
I couldn't tell. I don't think I've
ever heard stereo AM. They
probably compress
the bejesus out of AM stereo transmissions, too, because they have to
overcome
the same problem regardless of frequency range (variable signal
strength), right?
no .. signal strength is a more significant problem with AM, the audio
signal is based on the amplitude envelope of the carrier signal, while
in FM the frequency of the carrier signal is varied according to the
audio, and the receiver follows that. That is of course a
simplification, but they are quite different.
17 Mar
17 Mar
11 a.m.
On 17/03/2014 03:20, Paul Davis wrote:
On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 7:04 PM, Lorenzo Sutton
<lorenzofsutton(a)gmail.com <mailto:lorenzofsutton@gmail.com>> wrote:
In light of the interesting discussion on sample rates I propose a
music competition among LAU around production of music pieces with
quality considered 'low' by current dominating
professional/audiophile standards in the digital domain:
Specifics to be discussed, but I would start with the following:
can we just re-record the beatles or miles davis from vinyl and consider
it done?
You got he point - well said :-)
6:29 p.m.
Lo-fi competition is a great idea, imho.
On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 2:00 PM, Lorenzo Sutton <lorenzofsutton(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
On 17/03/2014 03:20, Paul Davis wrote:
--
Louigi Verona
http://www.louigiverona.ru/
On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 7:04 PM, Lorenzo Sutton
<lorenzofsutton(a)gmail.com <mailto:lorenzofsutton@gmail.com>> wrote:
In light of the interesting discussion on sample rates I propose a
music competition among LAU around production of music pieces with
quality considered 'low' by current dominating
professional/audiophile standards in the digital domain:
Specifics to be discussed, but I would start with the following:
can we just re-record the beatles or miles davis from vinyl and consider
it done?
You got he point - well said :-)
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
11:27 p.m.
Le 17/03/2014 18:29, Louigi Verona a écrit :
Lo-fi competition is a great idea, imho.
On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 2:00 PM, Lorenzo Sutton
<lorenzofsutton(a)gmail.com <mailto:lorenzofsutton@gmail.com>> wrote:
On 17/03/2014 03:20, Paul Davis wrote:
On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 7:04 PM, Lorenzo Sutton
<lorenzofsutton(a)gmail.com <mailto:lorenzofsutton@gmail.com>
<mailto:lorenzofsutton@gmail.__com
<mailto:lorenzofsutton@gmail.com>>> wrote:
In light of the interesting discussion on sample rates I
propose a
music competition among LAU around production of music
pieces with
quality considered 'low' by current dominating
professional/audiophile standards in the digital domain:
Specifics to be discussed, but I would start with the
following:
can we just re-record the beatles or miles davis from vinyl and
consider
it done?
You got he point - well said :-)
i have somewhere (if i can find it) some field recording taken with a
mono, 8bit, 16KHz rate from a so-called dictaphone, overdubbed with a
stereo piano track at 16bit/44.1Khz.. the effect is not so bad.
Well, to say, lo-fi is interseting to me. this proposition is a good
idea, and sometime big restrictions can lead to cool productions.
- Ben
19 Mar
19 Mar
7:44 p.m.
On 03/17/2014 12:27 PM, Benoît Rouits wrote:
Le 17/03/2014 18:29, Louigi Verona a écrit :
I could try recording things with my Palm Tungsten T3 PDA, it has a
built-in mic. Getting recordings out adds yet another conversion step,
since the only way I can get a recording out of it is to plug the
headphone out jack into my sound card and record it as the PDA plays it ...
First piece of music I ever heard that had been digitized was a bit of a
Van Halen song that had been digitized using a Commodore 64's direct
input connection (an 8-bit connection direct to the CPU). The CPU ran at
about 1MHz and spent about 25% of its cycles dedicated to video stuff,
so I have no idea what the effective sample rate was. The singing and
words were recognizable.
--
David W. Jones
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://dancingtreefrog.com
Lo-fi competition is a great idea, imho.
On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 2:00 PM, Lorenzo Sutton
<lorenzofsutton(a)gmail.com <mailto:lorenzofsutton@gmail.com>> wrote:
On 17/03/2014 03:20, Paul Davis wrote:
On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 7:04 PM, Lorenzo Sutton
<lorenzofsutton(a)gmail.com <mailto:lorenzofsutton@gmail.com>
<mailto:lorenzofsutton@gmail.__com
<mailto:lorenzofsutton@gmail.com>>> wrote:
In light of the interesting discussion on sample rates I
propose a
music competition among LAU around production of music
pieces with
quality considered 'low' by current dominating
professional/audiophile standards in the digital domain:
Specifics to be discussed, but I would start with the
following:
can we just re-record the beatles or miles davis from vinyl and
consider
it done?
You got he point - well said :-)
i have somewhere (if i can find it) some field recording taken with a
mono, 8bit, 16KHz rate from a so-called dictaphone, overdubbed with a
stereo piano track at 16bit/44.1Khz.. the effect is not so bad.
Well, to say, lo-fi is interseting to me. this proposition is a good
idea, and sometime big restrictions can lead to cool productions.
- Ben
17 Mar
17 Mar
7:41 a.m.
OK, now I've got to track down a way to digitize a mix tape I made for
my first girlfriend, back in early 70's. It was a mix tape of my own
songs, including one with me singing (badly) and playing bottle neck
guitar (passably) on a cheap steel-string acoustic that couldn't stay in
tune for more than a minute. Recorded onto 1/4" cassette using a
portable tape recorder designed to record voice dictation or interview,
not music.
About as lo-fi as you could get, even by standards back then!
On 03/16/2014 01:04 PM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:
In light of the interesting discussion on sample rates
I propose a music
competition among LAU around production of music pieces with quality
considered 'low' by current dominating professional/audiophile standards
in the digital domain:
Specifics to be discussed, but I would start with the following:
1. Final piece shall be delivered with a maximum sampling rate of 32kHz.
Lower sample rates .allowed.
2. Final bit depth of the file shall not exceed 8 bit.
- Possible variations/additions to this restriction:
- allow dithering?
- allow 4/8bit codecs (e.g. ADPCM, ulaw)?
- mono/stereo?
- simply impose a max duration and max filesize (but keep sr
and bit thresholds... and variations..)?
- Participants shall strongly focus on exploring and exploiting the
imposed limitations in a creative and artistic way
Other specs, voting mechanisms, competition arrangements, prizes, ... ???
Ciao,
Lorenzo.
--
David W. Jones
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://dancingtreefrog.com
10:43 a.m.
On 17 March 2014 06:41, david <gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
OK, now I've got to track down a way to digitize a
mix tape I made for my
first girlfriend, back in early 70's. It was a mix tape of my own songs,
including one with me singing (badly) and playing bottle neck guitar
(passably) on a cheap steel-string acoustic that couldn't stay in tune for
more than a minute. Recorded onto 1/4" cassette using a portable tape
recorder designed to record voice dictation or interview, not music.
I've heard that love is blind .. it would seem it's deaf too! :-P
N
--
Neil C Smith
Artist : Technologist : Adviser
http://neilcsmith.net
Praxis LIVE - open-source intermedia development - www.praxislive.org
Digital Prisoners - interactive spaces and projections -
www.digitalprisoners.co.uk
19 Mar
19 Mar
7:46 p.m.
On 03/16/2014 11:43 PM, Neil C Smith wrote:
On 17 March 2014 06:41, david
<gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
She wasn't deaf. Could explain why I still have the tape: she broke up
with me before I could give it to her. ;-)
--
David W. Jones
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://dancingtreefrog.com
OK, now I've got to track down a way to
digitize a mix tape I made for my
first girlfriend, back in early 70's. It was a mix tape of my own songs,
including one with me singing (badly) and playing bottle neck guitar
(passably) on a cheap steel-string acoustic that couldn't stay in tune for
more than a minute. Recorded onto 1/4" cassette using a portable tape
recorder designed to record voice dictation or interview, not music.
I've heard that love is blind .. it would seem it's deaf too! :-P
N 
17 Mar
17 Mar
10:25 a.m.
On Mon, March 17, 2014 10:04 am, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:
In light of the interesting discussion on sample rates
I propose a music
competition among LAU around production of music pieces with quality
considered 'low' by current dominating professional/audiophile standards
in the digital domain:
Specifics to be discussed, but I would start with the following:
1. Final piece shall be delivered with a maximum sampling rate of 32kHz.
Lower sample rates .allowed.
2. Final bit depth of the file shall not exceed 8 bit.
- Possible variations/additions to this restriction:
- allow dithering?
- allow 4/8bit codecs (e.g. ADPCM, ulaw)?
- mono/stereo?
- simply impose a max duration and max filesize (but keep sr and bit
thresholds... and variations..)?
- Participants shall strongly focus on exploring and exploiting the
imposed limitations in a creative and artistic way
Other specs, voting mechanisms, competition arrangements, prizes, ... ???
A few ideas for the mix.
- (one of) The prize(s) could be one of these:
https://www-ssl.intel.com/content/www/us/en/nuc/nuc-board-dn2820fykh.html
They go for around $130. Add in HDD and RAM for approx $300 total. I'm
sure we could all pitch in to make that possible. $10 each x 30 people. or
$1 each x 300 people. There are several thousand subscribers to LAU/LAD
these days and all the associated forums/mailing lists and irc channels.
- Alternatively we could offer cheaper allwinner or rikomagik boards that
have been fully preconfigured with a custom Linux OS that actually works
(not android because that is fairly pointless).
- We could create a webpage for the competition and some banner ads in
various sizes and ask members of the community to host them on their
websites linking back to the main competition page.
- It might also be possible to get some of the other Linux Audio companies
to pitch in with license keys for various proprietary Linux software or
other physical hardware.
- Maybe some of the Linux magazines will be prepared to offer
subscriptions in exchange for promotional logo placement on the
promotional webpage/media.
- We could hold an awards ceremony/event at a bar/venue and live stream
the shortlisted tunes in a town/city where there is a large group of Linux
Audio developers. Possibly the LAC would make a good forum for such an
event.
- We could provide a permanent radio stream of all the entries hosted by
one of the community focused websites like linuxaudio.org or
linux-audio.com
- We could ask major global corporations who make ridiculous sums of money
from Linux Audio technology (ex. alsa, pulse audio) to contribute prizes,
money, resources...
- Perhaps one of the numerous car companies that uses Linux for their
multimedia system will be interested in contributing. For example, we
could contact Tesla Motors to see if they want to throw anything into the
pot. An umbrella, t-shirt, other corporate mechandise that they routinely
give away at other events.
- We could ask of the people who work on the audio team at Ubuntu to ask
his boss if he would like to contribute anything.
- We could ask one of the people who work on audio at Intel if they can
get a contribution.
- We could ask one of the people who work on audio at Samsung if they can
get a contribution.
- We could ask the Linux Foundation if they have any spare Tizen devices
floating around that they would like to contribute.
- We could ask Valve if they would like to contribute a new SteamOS
machine that runs Linux and uses ALSA for the audio system. Or maybe they
have something else they can contribute that is not worth as much to them
but will still have value tot he recipient.
We could do all of these things if we wanted to be organised about
promoting the competition.
I have time and resources but in the past when these ideas have been
suggested no one else wanted to participate so nothing has come together.
Maybe now there are some other people who have the time/motivation too?
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
18 Mar
18 Mar
10:45 a.m.
Hi,
Lorenzo Sutton schrieb am 17.03.2014 00:04:
In light of the interesting discussion on sample rates
I propose a music
competition among LAU around production of music pieces with quality
considered 'low' by current dominating professional/audiophile standards
in the digital domain:
Specifics to be discussed, but I would start with the following:
1. Final piece shall be delivered with a maximum sampling rate of 32kHz.
Lower sample rates .allowed.
There is a netlabel called 20kbps, that already does something similar
without holding any competition:
http://20kbps.sofapause.ch/index2.htm
All the best,
Thomas
3698
days inactive
3704
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
17 comments
11 participants
participants (11)
-
Benoît Rouits -
Chris Bannister -
david -
Lorenzo Sutton -
Louigi Verona -
Neil C Smith -
Patrick Shirkey -
Paul Davis -
Raphaël Mouneyres -
Simon Wise -
Thomas Mayer