30 May
30 May
9:53 a.m.
New subject: OT: linux phone?
On Fri, 30 May 2008 07:29:16 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
Susan Cragin <susancragin(a)earthlink.net> wrote:
Skip the phone. Try mumble.
http://mumble.sourceforge.net/
-----Original Message-----
From: Ray Rashif
Sent: May 30, 2008 12:46 AM
To: Thomas Vecchione
Cc: linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
Subject: Re: [LAU] OT: linux phone?
Looking at it, reading the docs, I can honestly - and humbly - say
that this is NOT ready. If you'd like to develop, then it's for you.
If you'd like a phone to use as a phone, then it's not. An iPhone is
of more worth, iirc you can load up some custom Linux distro on it
too like on an iPod. I don't see any benefit for the end-user aside
from the "open" hardware. We don't get a refund if we open and
destroy it along the way, unlike software where code can be rolled
back.
Please avoid html mails and top-posting.
On the topic of linux phones:
Are there any that are completely free software?
I think I read a while ago that there's still some proprietary stuff in
there, the part that enables it to make calls or something.
I wouldn't be happy with that kind of 'open' phone.
Best Regards,
Philipp
10:55 a.m.
New subject: OT: linux phone?
On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 8:53 AM, <hollunder(a)gmx.at> wrote:
On the topic of linux phones:
Are there any that are completely free software?
I think I read a while ago that there's still some proprietary stuff in
there, the part that enables it to make calls or something.
I wouldn't be happy with that kind of 'open' phone.
Yeah, there's still at least two proprietary parts in openmoko's
Freerunner: GSM and Glamo.
GSM: as open source its tough because there are FCC certifications involved.
Smedia Glamo 3362 (Graphics chip) : NDAd .
I'm hoping glamo gets replaced, also for technical reasons (good, but
not great chip imho) .
Cheers,
Robert
1 Jun
1 Jun
4:58 a.m.
New subject: OT: linux phone?
"robert lazarski" <robertlazarski(a)gmail.com> writes:
Yeah, there's still at least two proprietary parts
in openmoko's
Freerunner: GSM and Glamo.
I believe this is wrong.
GSM: as open source its tough because there are FCC
certifications
involved.
gsmd is free software
Smedia Glamo 3362 (Graphics chip) : NDAd .
The software running this thing is free software.
There is no proprietary software in the Neo Freerunner. If I'm wrong,
then somebody correct me.
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5:10 a.m.
New subject: OT: linux phone?
> Yeah, there's still at least two proprietary
parts in openmoko's
> Freerunner: GSM and Glamo.
"""
Some of our chips or chipsets contain proprietary firmware in flash
memory. For example, in GTA02 these include the Wi-Fi, GPS, and GSM
"""
http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-February/013185.html
11:55 a.m.
New subject: OT: linux phone?
cdr <_(a)whats-your.name> writes:
Some of our chips or chipsets contain proprietary
firmware in flash
memory. For example, in GTA02 these include the Wi-Fi, GPS, and GSM
Right. It's preferable to run free software in firmware, of course,
but the openmoko platform is entirely free software. There is also a
minimum to what constitutes a computer.
Our computers contains a shitload of proprietary firmware. It is only
recently that you are able to buy some motherboards which are coreboot
compatible for the BIOS.
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12:39 p.m.
New subject: OT: linux phone?
On Sun, 01 Jun 2008 17:38:59 +0200
Esben Stien <b0ef(a)esben-stien.name> wrote:
cdr <_(a)whats-your.name> writes:
I've been watching coreboot/linuxbios for a while now. As soon as it is
simple enough and developed enough for us ordinary users I'll be
jumping in!
--
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
Some of our chips or chipsets contain proprietary
firmware in flash
memory. For example, in GTA02 these include the Wi-Fi, GPS, and GSM
Right. It's preferable to run free software in firmware, of course,
but the openmoko platform is entirely free software. There is also a
minimum to what constitutes a computer.
Our computers contains a shitload of proprietary firmware. It is only
recently that you are able to buy some motherboards which are coreboot
compatible for the BIOS. 
2 Jun
2 Jun
1:55 p.m.
New subject: OT: linux phone?
Am 2008-06-01 10:41:44, schrieb Esben Stien:
"robert lazarski"
<robertlazarski(a)gmail.com> writes:
If you are a Hardware Developer like me, you can run into trouble like
me... IF you have to sign an NDA if using there Hardware. The NDA
prevent you can code Open Source Software.
I have found three nice µChips from NXP and Maxim and have to sign a
NDA. But since I run only Debian GNU/Linux the software MUST fit the
DFSG which NDA does not fit.
Oh and it seems you have to sign a NDA too, if you want to use the "NXP
Nexperia HEDGE cellular baseband PNX6712" which I like to include into
my Self-Made computer using an ARM1176.
Thanks, Greetings and nice Day
Michelle Konzack
Systemadministrator
24V Electronic Engineer
Tamay Dogan Network
Debian GNU/Linux Consultant
--
Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/
##################### Debian GNU/Linux Consultant #####################
Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886
+49/177/9351947 50, rue de Soultz MSN LinuxMichi
+33/6/61925193 67100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com)
Smedia Glamo 3362 (Graphics chip) : NDAd .
The software running this thing is free software.
There is no proprietary software in the Neo Freerunner. If I'm wrong,
then somebody correct me.
5:34 p.m.
New subject: OT: linux phone?
Michelle Konzack <linux4michelle(a)tamay-dogan.net> writes:
If you are a Hardware Developer like me, you can run
into trouble
like me... IF you have to sign an NDA
Of course, NDA sucks, but this is totally irrelevant regarding the
question if openmoko is free software.
There are many people on the list that are looking to make it totally
free hardware, like the leon processor and the opencores project, but
this has nothing to do with the original question.
--
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30 May
30 May
5:13 p.m.
New subject: OT: linux phone?
On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 5:29 AM, Susan Cragin <susancragin(a)earthlink.net>
wrote:
Skip the phone. Try mumble.
http://mumble.sourceforge.net/
Completely different goals there. One is not a replacement for the other
except in extraordinarily rare circumstances.
Oh yeah - no 3G this time around. I personally expect to see it the
next hardware revision.
Thanks for the heads up, I think that will likely be a bit necessary for me
sadly. It is a shame because I agree with much of what you said in your
post, and love some of what I have seen on the progress of the phone. But
it is definitely being kept in mind.
Seablade
1 Jun
1 Jun
4:52 a.m.
New subject: OT: linux phone?
Susan Cragin <susancragin(a)earthlink.net> writes:
Skip the phone. Try mumble.
First off; this is unrelated to the OP. Secondly, if you want a soft
phone, use a real SIP VOIP soft phone;).
--
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6:08 p.m.
New subject: OT: linux phone?
On Sun, Jun 01, 2008 at 10:35:27AM +0200, Esben Stien wrote:
Susan Cragin <susancragin(a)earthlink.net>
writes:
Also, Ekiga is what I use right now, and it's not very helpful.
The problem is: it's useless if I don't have my computer on, or if I'm not
near a usable free WiFi signal. Also the quality sucks-- very choppy over wifi.
So I had to buy a cheap 7-11 prepaid cellphone a while ago, and I have my SIP phone number
forwarded to it most of the time. But I hate it. I'd rather have a proper cellphone
that runs Linux, and I'll get the Sprint Metro PCS service for it so that I have
internet connectivity... and with a Linux phone and bluetooth then I thus have wireless
internet for my laptop too.
I will order an OpenMoko as soon as they are available.
-ken
Skip the phone. Try mumble.
First off; this is unrelated to the OP. Secondly, if you want a soft
phone, use a real SIP VOIP soft phone;).
2 Jun
2 Jun
1:55 p.m.
New subject: OT: linux phone?
Am 2008-06-01 10:35:27, schrieb Esben Stien:
First off; this is unrelated to the OP. Secondly, if
you want a soft
phone, use a real SIP VOIP soft phone;).
But SIP is a Non-Free proprietary protocol
Thanks, Greetings and nice Day
Michelle Konzack
Systemadministrator
24V Electronic Engineer
Tamay Dogan Network
Debian GNU/Linux Consultant
--
Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/
##################### Debian GNU/Linux Consultant #####################
Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886
+49/177/9351947 50, rue de Soultz MSN LinuxMichi
+33/6/61925193 67100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com)
4:06 p.m.
New subject: OT: linux phone?
Den Monday 02 June 2008 17.55.02 skrev Michelle Konzack:
Am 2008-06-01 10:35:27, schrieb Esben Stien:
Oops. You'll have to educate me on that one. How is it a non-free proprietary
protocol?
/bengan
First off; this is unrelated to the OP. Secondly,
if you want a soft
phone, use a real SIP VOIP soft phone;).
But SIP is a Non-Free proprietary protocol
5:31 p.m.
New subject: OT: linux phone?
Michelle Konzack <linux4michelle(a)tamay-dogan.net> writes:
But SIP is a Non-Free proprietary protocol
No, it's not.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Session_Initiation_Protocol
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4 Jun
4 Jun
1 p.m.
New subject: OT: linux phone?
Am 2008-06-02 23:14:04, schrieb Esben Stien:
Michelle Konzack
<linux4michelle(a)tamay-dogan.net> writes:
And WHY is it patented and you can not change the something on the
protocol? It is only FREE, if you use it as it is. This was the last
thing I have heared from the Developers...
Also SIP require to go over a SIP server/gateway which are all falling
under the US Patriot Act since SIPgate is an US-American enterprise :-/
a thing, I can not recommend.
Thanks, Greetings and nice Day
Michelle Konzack
Systemadministrator
24V Electronic Engineer
Tamay Dogan Network
Debian GNU/Linux Consultant
--
Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/
##################### Debian GNU/Linux Consultant #####################
Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886
+49/177/9351947 50, rue de Soultz MSN LinuxMichi
+33/6/61925193 67100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com)
But SIP is a Non-Free proprietary protocol
No, it's not.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Session_Initiation_Protocol 
2:08 p.m.
New subject: OT: linux phone?
Am Mittwoch, den 04.06.2008, 00:54 +0200 schrieb Michelle Konzack:
Am 2008-06-02 23:14:04, schrieb Esben Stien:
I don't get it.
Why would you pick a standardized protocol and change it? In particular
for a VOIP phone, how would you actually talk to anyone?
"The good thing about standards is that there are so many to choose
from."
Jan
Michelle Konzack
<linux4michelle(a)tamay-dogan.net> writes:
And WHY is it patented and you can not change the something on the
protocol? It is only FREE, if you use it as it is. This was the last
thing I have heared from the Developers... But SIP is a Non-Free proprietary protocol
No, it's not.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Session_Initiation_Protocol 
2:29 p.m.
New subject: OT: linux phone?
On Tuesday 03 June 2008 18:54, Michelle Konzack wrote:
Am 2008-06-02 23:14:04, schrieb Esben Stien:
Lots of people have written SIP extensions, and some are even in RFCs.
SIP itself is RFC 3261. It's no more proprietary than protocols such
as SASL, ICMP, IDENT and dozens of others.
For that matter, many SIP implementations are available in Debian and
are not located in the non-free repositories, and if anyone is anal
about free vs. non-free it's Debian. The GNU project implements SIP
in a library called oSIP, so it has to be compatible with the GPL,
meaning you can make whatever changes to the protocol that you want.
You could take oSIP and use it to implement your own protocol called
oMichelle and as long as you released your code under the GPL, no one
would bat an eye. For that matter, NIST appears to have their own
SIP implementation which is public domain, for those who have a
different definition of "free software" than the Free Software
Foundation.
Please document what you are claiming, and in particular, who "the
Developers" are. Are you maybe thinking of Skype, which is
proprietary and owned by one company (ebay)?
Michelle Konzack
<linux4michelle(a)tamay-dogan.net> writes:
And WHY is it patented
and you can not change the something on
the protocol? It is only FREE, if you use it as it is. This was
the last thing I have heared from the Developers... But SIP is a Non-Free proprietary protocol
No, it's not.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Session_Initiation_Protocol Also SIP require to go over a SIP server/gateway which
are all
falling under the US Patriot Act since SIPgate is an US-American
enterprise :-/ a thing, I can not recommend.
You can run a SIP gateway on any Linux Asterisk box. It doesn't have
to be located in the US. My business partner runs one privately in
Israel. Now, running a public one might require you to deal with
your country's telecom regulators, but that'll be true with any kind
of PSTN-to-IP gateway, not just SIP.
Also, I had never heard of SIPgate, despite being American. The
reason is that not only is SIPgate a German company, but they don't
seem to even operate in the United States despite offering US phone
numbers to their UK customers. It may be that they cooperate to an
unfortunate level with American law enforcement, but as far as I can
tell they fall outside the jurisdiction of the USA Patriot Act. At
any rate, they are merely a provider of a SIP gateway, not the
inventor of SIP nor the only provider. Maybe they have some kind of
monopoly in Germany, but a quick google for German SIP gateway
providers reveals dozens of them, so I don't think that's the case.
I think you need to do a little more research and stop listening to
whatever vendor has been selling you this FUD. SIP certainly has its
shortcomings, but being proprietary, free-software-incompatible or
US-controlled are not among them.
Rob
5 Jun
5 Jun
11:13 a.m.
New subject: OT: linux phone?
Michelle Konzack <linux4michelle(a)tamay-dogan.net> writes:
And WHY is it patented and you can not change the
something on the
protocol?
This is total bull and you have no clue what you are talking about.
SIP require to go over a SIP server/gateway which are
all falling
under the US Patriot Act since SIPgate is an US-American enterprise
Again, you have no clue what you are talking about. Your total
misunderstanding is too much to respond to, so I suggest you go read a
little before making any more claims.
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linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
18 comments
12 participants
participants (12)
-
Bengt Gördén -
cdr -
Esben Stien -
Folderol -
hollunder＠gmx.at -
Jan Weil -
Ken Restivo -
Michelle Konzack -
Rob -
robert lazarski -
Susan Cragin -
Thomas Vecchione