17 Feb
2020
17 Feb
'20
5:41 p.m.
Greetings !
After many (too many ?) years using Fedora 23 I decided/admitted a
system upgrade was long overdue. I chose Ubuntu 18.04 simply because I
recently installed it on a Toshiba Satellite laptop - a fun story itself
- and am satisfied with the results, especially after installing some
Ubuntu Studio components. Anyway, that machine is now a smooth-running
gun, so I figured, "Why not put Ubuntu on the desktop iron ?". And so
begins the tale...
My DVD drive is broken, so I planned to use the same bootable USB stick
I used for the laptop. That was the first problem. I tested the stick on
the desktop and discovered that my mobo wouldn't boot from it,
regardless of BIOS settings for boot selection and order. At last I
thought that the stick wasn't recognized because of the file system
type, so I created another bootable stick. This one was recognized, but
only long enough to inform me that there was no operating system on it.
Okay, a little more googling helped me out, I tried a different stick
preparation software because unetbootin has problems with some mobos.
This time the stick booted properly and at last I had an Ubuntu display.
From that point the installation was trouble-free - including the
addition of the Ubuntu Studio stuff - until reaching the part where I
installed the nVidia drivers. I had added a new graphics card, so I had
to jump through a few more hoops before I finally had a working video
setup.
Software installation was a breeze and I soon had a complete development
environment. Again, no significant problems building and installing my
most-used software.
Email proved to be the final bug-bear. I was able to configure for
incoming mail without trouble but my outgoing server simply was not
functioning. I called my ISP, had a long chat with a helpful fellow, and
still had no outgoing mail capability. At long last I found an on-line
report regarding the same problem and discovered that a single setting
should be changed. I made the change and finally have outgoing mail again.
Two days configuring this machine. Why I still don't usually recommend
Linux to normal users.
Best regards,
dp
17 Feb
17 Feb
6:33 p.m.
On Mon, 17 Feb 2020 10:41:35 -0500
Dave Phillips <dlphillips(a)woh.rr.com> wrote:
Two days configuring this machine. Why I still
don't usually recommend
Linux to normal users.
Hmmm.
Well, although I wouldn't recommend a new user *installing* Linux I have left a
number of people happily using Linux installs I've done for them.
--
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.
18 Feb
18 Feb
1:27 a.m.
On 2/17/20 7:21 AM, mickski 56 wrote:
In my experience:
1. Ordinary users don't install Windows, either. It came on their computer.
2. Ordinary users don't have pro-level audio requirements. They want to
Skype and play YouTube videos. They use their computer's built-in sound
capabilities, such as laptop speakers or headphone jack.
3. If they're also casual gamers, maybe they feed their sound output to
external speakers. If they're more serious gamers, they have that plus a
headset.
My mother, a great-grandmother, skipped step 1 and bought an all-in-one
iMac.
My sister, the grandmother, has two degrees in computer science and is a
programmer and patent holder in the communications equipment field. (If
you made a phone call today, it probably went through something she
holds a patent on.) I don't believe she has ever installed Windows,
either. Last time we visited her, she didn't even have a computer in the
house. (Or an Internet connection.)
Her son has a five-year degree in engineering technology. He has
probably installed Windows from scratch at work and helped create custom
install images. At home? Probably just uses whatever Windows was
installed on their computers when they bought them. He's in the
generation that probably does 99% of its personal computing on
smartphone or tablet.
--
David W. Jones
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://dancingtreefrog.com
Two days
configuring this machine. Why I still don't usually
recommend Linux to normal users.
Best regards,
dp
I wouldn't bet on everyone and their grannies getting a windows install
right in any amount of time either.
1:56 a.m.
On 2/17/20 5:41 AM, Dave Phillips wrote:
Greetings !
After many (too many ?) years using Fedora 23 I decided/admitted a
system upgrade was long overdue. I chose Ubuntu 18.04 simply because I
recently installed it on a Toshiba Satellite laptop - a fun story itself
- and am satisfied with the results, especially after installing some
Ubuntu Studio components. Anyway, that machine is now a smooth-running
gun, so I figured, "Why not put Ubuntu on the desktop iron ?". And so
begins the tale...
I recently replaced my dying System76 laptop with a Dell XPS-15 7590,
with Dell's external Thunderbolt dock because the laptop has no Ethernet
port and not enough USB ports.
Ubuntu fired up from a USB stick (created with unetbootin, btw) but had
problems with the dock. I tried Ubuntu 19 because Ubuntu 18 doesn't work
with the dock or the laptop's wifi hardware. Ubuntu 19 claimed to
support the dock, that's why I chose it.
Debian Buster Live started from a USB stick, worked with the dock just
fine, and installed fine. Everything just works.
My DVD drive is broken,
The DVD drive in my desktop machine works - but there's no connector
available on the current motherboard for it.
The old System76 laptop still works (sort of) and has a working DVD
drive. So I boot it from a Debian Buster USB stick and plug a network
cable in when I need to get something from a CD or DVD.
so I planned to use the same bootable USB stick
I used for the laptop. That was the first problem. I tested the stick on
the desktop and discovered that my mobo wouldn't boot from it,
regardless of BIOS settings for boot selection and order. At last I
thought that the stick wasn't recognized because of the file system
type, so I created another bootable stick. This one was recognized, but
only long enough to inform me that there was no operating system on it.
Okay, a little more googling helped me out, I tried a different stick
preparation software because unetbootin has problems with some mobos.
This time the stick booted properly and at last I had an Ubuntu display.
Hurrah! Although I hate the Ubuntu desktop environment. Very clumsy!
From that point the installation was trouble-free -
including the
addition of the Ubuntu Studio stuff - until reaching the part where I
installed the nVidia drivers. I had added a new graphics card, so I had
to jump through a few more hoops before I finally had a working video
setup.
My laptop has Nvidia hardware, too. I've not installed the Nvidia
drivers. No need for them, in my opinion. I'm not a gamer and the Nvidia
hardware in the laptop isn't anywhere near powerful enough to drive a
game at the laptop's 4K HDR resolution.
The Windows 10 installation that came on the machine has an option to
install Nvidia drivers. I haven't done that because it seems to require
either a viable Microsoft login or a separate NVvidia login - neither of
which I have.
Software installation was a breeze and I soon had a
complete development
environment. Again, no significant problems building and installing my
most-used software.
I didn't have to build any software outside of an attempt to build the
wifi drivers under Ubuntu, trying to get the wifi to work.
Email proved to be the final bug-bear. I was able to
configure for
incoming mail without trouble but my outgoing server simply was not
functioning. I called my ISP, had a long chat with a helpful fellow, and
still had no outgoing mail capability. At long last I found an on-line
report regarding the same problem and discovered that a single setting
should be changed. I made the change and finally have outgoing mail again.
Hmm. I just backed up my home partition and restored it on the new
machine. Email worked exactly as it did before. Didn't need to change
anything. You don't sound like a "normal" email user.
Two days configuring this machine. Why I still
don't usually recommend
Linux to normal users.
It doesn't sound to me like you have much in common with so-called
normal users. My wife's a normal user, completely non-technical.
Installing Linux for her has always been easy. The only difficulty we've
had to deal with has been the same on both Linux and Windows sides. Both
OSes seem to think that because it finds an HDMI monitor, it also needs
to send all sound output to HDMI. Kind of useless since her monitor has
no sound capability!
I have a friend who's been trying to make a career in songwriting and
singing. He's been a Windows user from the beginning. He's never
installed a Windows system from scratch, either. He uses pre-built and
configured systems from Musicians Friend. Even with their experienced
technical support, they've had to jump through hoops to make Windows
work for his pro audio needs.
--
David W. Jones
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://dancingtreefrog.com
6:55 a.m.
On Mon, 17 Feb 2020, Dave Phillips wrote:
preparation software because unetbootin has problems
with some mobos.
I use dd if=<name>.iso of=/dev/sd<usb stickdrive>
I know, this is linux specific. In my case, I would be lost with
anything else. :) There are no non-linux systems in the house and as I
would end up doing any fixing required, it is more important that I know
what I am doing than them.
Two days configuring this machine. Why I still
don't usually recommend
Linux to normal users.
Yeah, I understand that one. Once it is on the machine though, I have not
found anyone who can't use it. Most of the desktops are close enough to
either a phone or one of the desktops people have used before. Om the
other hand, I know lots of people who have to ask for help on windows too.
They only use it cause it came preinstalled.
--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net
5:18 p.m.
On 2/17/20 10:41 AM, Dave Phillips wrote:
Greetings !
After many (too many ?) years using Fedora 23 I decided/admitted a
system upgrade was long overdue. I chose Ubuntu 18.04 simply because I
recently installed it on a Toshiba Satellite laptop - a fun story
itself - and am satisfied with the results, especially after
installing some Ubuntu Studio components. Anyway, that machine is now
a smooth-running gun, so I figured, "Why not put Ubuntu on the desktop
iron ?". And so begins the tale...
I may have struck a nerve.
Addressing certain points:
1. Nope, I'm not a normal user. According to some, I'm not even a normal
person.
2. Admittedly, the actual use of a Linux system - or any other - isn't
necessarily problematic so long as the user is in fact simply running
programs, without concern for system configuration and administration.
Yes, my 10-year old grandson also "uses" my Linux machines, which is to
say that he knows how to start Minecraft and run a browser.
3. My tale had really only one problem with Linux, i.e. the
creation/configuration of the installation media, and that problem was
due to a motherboard issue with the media creation software. Using
different (more up to date?) software resolved that issue.
I'm still working on a few minor problems with Ubuntu, nothing serious.
I think the audio configuration can be improved a bit, but performance
is certainly adequate now.
Best regards to all, thanks for all the replies.
dp;
19 Feb
19 Feb
9:43 a.m.
On 2/18/20 5:18 AM, Dave Phillips wrote:
On 2/17/20 10:41 AM, Dave Phillips wrote:
But you play one on TV! ;)
Greetings !
After many (too many ?) years using Fedora 23 I decided/admitted a
system upgrade was long overdue. I chose Ubuntu 18.04 simply because I
recently installed it on a Toshiba Satellite laptop - a fun story
itself - and am satisfied with the results, especially after
installing some Ubuntu Studio components. Anyway, that machine is now
a smooth-running gun, so I figured, "Why not put Ubuntu on the desktop
iron ?". And so begins the tale...
I may have struck a nerve.
Addressing certain points:
1. Nope, I'm not a normal user. According to some, I'm not even a normal
person. 2. Admittedly, the actual use of a Linux system - or
any other - isn't
necessarily problematic so long as the user is in fact simply running
programs, without concern for system configuration and administration.
Yes, my 10-year old grandson also "uses" my Linux machines, which is to
say that he knows how to start Minecraft and run a browser.
My daughter started using computers when she was 2. She's now 35. Don't
ask her to fix anything on any kind of computer - she's an artist! She
married a geeky IT guy, so he takes care of their computers.
3. My tale had really only one problem with Linux,
i.e. the
creation/configuration of the installation media, and that problem was
due to a motherboard issue with the media creation software. Using
different (more up to date?) software resolved that issue.
I get Unetbootin from their site. But my new laptop has a 4K display and
the Unetbootin GUI is so tiny as be nearly unusable. Thanks for the
reminder about using dd.
I think one thing Unetbootin can do is convert a CDROM-only ISO into a
bootable USB. Maybe that's what throws some motherboards? But I've used
it on about 13 different motherboards here (including 5 or 6 different
laptops) without any problems. One of the laptops was even a Toshiba.
There was time when Toshibas were recommended as good Linux machines
because their boards were "bog standard" with nothing exotic about them.
Don't know if that's still true or not. I went with Dell XPS because
Dell has support for Linux on them.
I'm still working on a few minor problems with
Ubuntu, nothing serious.
I think the audio configuration can be improved a bit, but performance
is certainly adequate now.
Best regards to all, thanks for all the replies.
And thank you for your musics!
--
David W. Jones
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://dancingtreefrog.com
1554
days inactive
1556
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
7 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
-
Dave Phillips -
david -
Len Ovens -
mickski 56 -
Will Godfrey