26 May
2007
26 May
'07
11 a.m.
Hi all,
I always liked Adrian Belew's song "Big Electric Cat" , and after hearing
it
again I'd like to see how close to that sound I can get. Doing some
googling, Here is a quote from Guitar Player jan.'84:
AB describing his onstage/studio equipment p.80-
...number 3 is my Foxx[Tone Machine]fuzztone. That's the sound in "Big
Electric Cat" and "Paint the Road". "i always use it w/ the high
octave
sustain switch on. its my favorite effect, and not an easy one to find these
days. i'm also daisy-chaining the Foxx-tone into an MXR 10-band graphic
equalizer so that i can eq it."
I'm actually a keyboard player with a korg triton classic and some
relatively good guitar sounds ;-). I found some schematics for building a
cheap fuzztone, but I've got plenty of excuses for trying to do this in
software first ;-). Any ideas?
Robert
26 May
26 May
12:06 p.m.
Hallo!
I'm actually a keyboard player with a korg triton
classic and some
relatively good guitar sounds ;-). I found some schematics for building
a cheap fuzztone, but I've got plenty of excuses for trying to do this
can you show this schematics ?
I think a fuzztone is only a simple waveshaper (?) - this could be made
quite easy in e.g. PD ...
LG
Georg
12:27 p.m.
On 5/26/07, Georg Holzmann <georg.holzmann(a)student.kug.ac.at> wrote:
Hallo!
Sure, here's two versions:
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Library/1355/tonemachine.gif
http://www.geofex.com/FX_images/foxxfuzz.gif
Pretty simple, but I live in Brazil and getting these parts may be hard and
I am currently tight for time. Here's a guy who actually built these and has
some tips:
http://www.slinkp.com/pw_toys/foxx
Still trying to do this in software though for now. Any ideas?
Robert
I'm actually a keyboard player with a korg
triton classic and some
relatively good guitar sounds ;-). I found some schematics for building
a cheap fuzztone, but I've got plenty of excuses for trying to do this
can you show this schematics ?
I think a fuzztone is only a simple waveshaper (?) - this could be made
quite easy in e.g. PD ... 
12:36 p.m.
Hallo!
Okay, I did not mean the circuit, but a schema of the mathematic behind
it ... ;)
Then it should be easy to build in software ...
LG
Georg
4:12 p.m.
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On Sat, May 26, 2007 at 04:38:46PM +0200, Georg Holzmann wrote:
Hallo!
Okay, I did not mean the circuit, but a schema of the mathematic behind
it ... ;)
Then it should be easy to build in software ...
Maybe model the circuit in something like SPICE, and have a look at what the modelled
circuit does to a sine-wave input, or, and impulse?
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/2169
Hmm. An interesting project might be hacking SPICE into being a kind of a deconvolution
engine, to build a WAV impulse response file of a circuit. Then you could use that IR to
"play" through the circuit using JACE or similar.
The maths involved in such a thing would be way beyond my meager skills, however.
- -ken
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6:07 p.m.
On Sat, 26 May 2007 11:09:49 -0700
Ken Restivo <ken(a)restivo.org> wrote:
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On Sat, May 26, 2007 at 04:38:46PM +0200, Georg Holzmann wrote:
The preamp stage gives some filtering that seems to lift at around 3kHz
(fairly typical 'brightness').
The funny bit is a variation on a full-wave rectifier which has the
effect of crude frequency doubling. Instead of a switch it is better to
make the 'bottom' half variable so you can control the amplitude of the
doubled effect. Don't know quite how you'd do this is software, you
need to sort of 'fold' the signal so the negative bits go positive
instead.
That is followed by a single amplifier giving the drive to an
ordinary 2 diode limiter (fuzz). This kind of limiter doesn't give
a hard cutoff, but a slightly rounded waveform - sounds smoother. The
'sustain' control is simply drive level. More drive = more distortion
and longer before it comes out of limiting.
Followed by a slightly unusual tone control - quite interesting - and
a final buffer amp.
--
Will J G
Hallo!
Okay, I did not mean the circuit, but a schema of the mathematic behind
it ... ;)
Then it should be easy to build in software ...
Maybe model the circuit in something like SPICE, and have a look at what the modelled
circuit does to a sine-wave input, or, and impulse?
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/2169
Hmm. An interesting project might be hacking SPICE into being a kind of a deconvolution
engine, to build a WAV impulse response file of a circuit. Then you could use that IR to
"play" through the circuit using JACE or similar.
The maths involved in such a thing would be way beyond my meager skills, however.
- -ken 
11:22 p.m.
Hi,
the software equivalent to a diode rectifier would be [abs~] in pd for
example. But to make it sound as sweet as in the analogue world, one has
to include some unlinearities in the signal path as well.
cheers, Peter
Folderol wrote:
On Sat, 26 May 2007 11:09:49 -0700
Ken Restivo <ken(a)restivo.org> wrote:
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Hash: SHA1
On Sat, May 26, 2007 at 04:38:46PM +0200, Georg Holzmann wrote:
The preamp stage gives some filtering that seems to lift at around 3kHz
(fairly typical 'brightness').
The funny bit is a variation on a full-wave rectifier which has the
effect of crude frequency doubling. Instead of a switch it is better to
make the 'bottom' half variable so you can control the amplitude of the
doubled effect. Don't know quite how you'd do this is software, you
need to sort of 'fold' the signal so the negative bits go positive
instead.
That is followed by a single amplifier giving the drive to an
ordinary 2 diode limiter (fuzz). This kind of limiter doesn't give
a hard cutoff, but a slightly rounded waveform - sounds smoother. The
'sustain' control is simply drive level. More drive = more distortion
and longer before it comes out of limiting.
Followed by a slightly unusual tone control - quite interesting - and
a final buffer amp.
Hallo!
Okay, I did not mean the circuit, but
a schema of the mathematic behind
it ... ;)
Then it should be easy to build in software ...
Maybe model the circuit in something like SPICE, and have a look at what the
modelled circuit does to a sine-wave input, or, and impulse?
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/2169
Hmm. An interesting project might be hacking SPICE into being a kind of a deconvolution
engine, to build a WAV impulse response file of a circuit. Then you could use that IR to
"play" through the circuit using JACE or similar.
The maths involved in such a thing would be way beyond my meager skills, however.
- -ken 
28 May
28 May
11:28 p.m.
Here's an interesting waveshaping distortion that is not linear and
gives an interesting effect. I once ported it to pd but I did not
quite finish it (I didn't get the coefficient calculations right and
it would blow up in some unpredictible ways).
http://csounds.com/ezine/winter1999/processing/
A gentler (than abs(),[abs~] or similar) way of rectifying a signal is
multiplying it by itself.
./MiS
7:16 p.m.
On Sat, May 26, 2007 at 10:27:47AM -0400, robert lazarski wrote:
Pretty simple, but I live in Brazil and getting these
parts may be hard and
I am currently tight for time. Here's a guy who actually built these and has
some tips:
http://www.slinkp.com/pw_toys/foxx
That's me :-)
Still trying to do this in software though for now.
Any ideas?
Robert
I predict that perfectly emulating a Foxx fuzztone would be tricky if
you don't have one handy to experiment with... but if you're satisfied
by getting in the general ballpark, you're in luck: the octave effect
is very simply generated by rectifying the signal. In hardware, this
means using diodes to invert the negative half of each wave. In
software it's even easier: just use abs() :-)
You might try making a trivial rectifier plugin using abs(), then
experiment with combining that with other plugins: various distortions
such as Steve's fast overdrive before and/or after the rectifier;
various EQ plugins before or after the rectifier; and you'll probably
want Steve's DC offset remover or something similar after your
rectifier.
The Foxxtone sounds really weird with chords, by the way. Non-linear
distortion, sort of like a ring modulator. Most people used it only
for single-note lines.
Jimi Hendrix had a similar effect on the "Purple Haze" solos, though I
don't know whether it was a Foxx or something else.
--
Paul Winkler
http://www.slinkp.com
11:02 p.m.
Hmm. An interesting project might be hacking SPICE
into being a kind of a
deconvolution engine,
to build a WAV impulse response file of a circuit.
Then you could use that
IR to "play"
through the circuit using JACE or similar.
i have been dreaming of this for so long :) i thought about it the other way
though, using a 'custom' wave shape as a function generator in spice itself.
would be very slow this way though.
the good news about doing this though is that you don't have to (unless you
want to) emulate everything about the circuit, just the signal path. this
would simplify and speed up the calculations somewhat.
porl
On 29/05/07, Paul Winkler <pw_lists(a)slinkp.com> wrote:
On Sat, May 26, 2007 at 10:27:47AM -0400, robert lazarski wrote:
Pretty simple, but I live in Brazil and getting
these parts may be hard
and
I am currently tight for time. Here's a guy
who actually built these and
has
some tips:
http://www.slinkp.com/pw_toys/foxx
That's me :-)
Still trying to do this in software though for
now. Any ideas?
Robert
I predict that perfectly emulating a Foxx fuzztone would be tricky if
you don't have one handy to experiment with... but if you're satisfied
by getting in the general ballpark, you're in luck: the octave effect
is very simply generated by rectifying the signal. In hardware, this
means using diodes to invert the negative half of each wave. In
software it's even easier: just use abs() :-)
You might try making a trivial rectifier plugin using abs(), then
experiment with combining that with other plugins: various distortions
such as Steve's fast overdrive before and/or after the rectifier;
various EQ plugins before or after the rectifier; and you'll probably
want Steve's DC offset remover or something similar after your
rectifier.
The Foxxtone sounds really weird with chords, by the way. Non-linear
distortion, sort of like a ring modulator. Most people used it only
for single-note lines.
Jimi Hendrix had a similar effect on the "Purple Haze" solos, though I
don't know whether it was a Foxx or something else.
--
Paul Winkler
http://www.slinkp.com
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29 May
29 May
2:48 a.m.
porl sheean wrote:
> Hmm. An interesting project might be hacking SPICE
into being a
> kind of a deconvolution engine,
> to build a WAV impulse response file of a circuit. Then you could
> use that IR to "play" through the circuit using JACE or similar.
i have been dreaming of this for so long :) i thought
about it the
other way though, using a 'custom' wave shape as a function generator
in spice itself. would be very slow this way though.
I've been dreaming about a /jackifiying/ spice ;) - I spiced up my
Pfingst Montag by added a libsndfile voltage-source to ng-spice. - For
simple circuits it's not too far-off real-time performance: it takes
about 4 seconds to simulate 1 second of foxxtone at 48ksps over here.
Now it's Tueday and using a IR seems the way to go... simulating the
foxx effect alone is not trivial. Based on the posted schematics, here's
a preliminary http://mir.dnsalias.com/_media/wiki/foxx.oregano.gz - try
yourself..
the good news about doing this though is that you
don't have to
(unless you want to) emulate everything about the circuit, just the
signal path. this would simplify and speed up the calculations
somewhat.
I've started to document the spice patch at
http://mir.dnsalias.com/wiki/spicesound - the code's barely a few hours
old and highly experimental. NTL, it's already allows to process spice3
netlists reading and generating wav file(s).
robin
PS. pure-data is more fun than this!
3:17 a.m.
pure data is something i have been wanting to look into. i suppose my reason
for the spice thing is that one of my hobbies is building and modifying old
valve amps (not a huge success rate at the moment though, but getting
there... stupid old power transformers dying on me...). i know that spice
will not give an accurate sound of a real valve, but it would be really
handy to hear *changes* with circuit modifications on a real signal. things
like frequency response are pretty straightforward i suppose, but what about
things like sag and the effects of negative feedback? bit harder to judge
from the schematic if you are a beginner like me :) i'll have to have a look
at your spice thingy when i get home (my machine here isn't set up for stuff
like that... yet :).
off topic (from my off topic previous post...): does anyone know where to
get *good* spice models for valves/tubes? especially working with oregano (i
tried geda but it keeps crashing on me). also good transformer models (i
know these can be done somehow with subcircuits, but as i said, i'm still a
beginner. i just want some basic 4k/8ohm single ended and push-pull models
for basic circuit building.
thanks
porl
On 29/05/07, Robin Gareus <robin(a)gareus.org> wrote:
porl sheean wrote:
> Hmm. An interesting project might be hacking
SPICE into being a
> kind of a deconvolution engine,
> to build a WAV impulse response file of a circuit. Then you could
> use that IR to "play" through the circuit using JACE or similar.
i have been dreaming of this for so long :) i
thought about it the
other way though, using a 'custom' wave shape as a function generator
in spice itself. would be very slow this way though.
I've been dreaming about a /jackifiying/ spice ;) - I spiced up my
Pfingst Montag by added a libsndfile voltage-source to ng-spice. - For
simple circuits it's not too far-off real-time performance: it takes
about 4 seconds to simulate 1 second of foxxtone at 48ksps over here.
Now it's Tueday and using a IR seems the way to go... simulating the
foxx effect alone is not trivial. Based on the posted schematics, here's
a preliminary http://mir.dnsalias.com/_media/wiki/foxx.oregano.gz - try
yourself..
the good news about doing this though is that you
don't have to
(unless you want to) emulate everything about the circuit, just the
signal path. this would simplify and speed up the calculations
somewhat.
I've started to document the spice patch at
http://mir.dnsalias.com/wiki/spicesound - the code's barely a few hours
old and highly experimental. NTL, it's already allows to process spice3
netlists reading and generating wav file(s).
robin
PS. pure-data is more fun than this!
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5:16 a.m.
Robin Gareus wrote:
I've been dreaming about a /jackifiying/ spice ;)
- I spiced up my
Pfingst Montag by added a libsndfile voltage-source to ng-spice.
Awesome. I love hearing about things like that :-).
Now it's Tueday and using a IR seems the way to
go... simulating the
foxx effect alone is not trivial.
IR == impulse response??
If so, you are way off track. The impulse response method of analyzing
systems is *only* valid for linear time-invariant (LTI) systems and
things like fuzztones are *not* linear.
For non-linear systems you need things like Volterra Series, but beware,
there is some seriously wicked maths there.
I've started to document the spice patch at
http://mir.dnsalias.com/wiki/spicesound - the code's barely a few hours
old and highly experimental. NTL, it's already allows to process spice3
netlists reading and generating wav file(s).
Damn thats cool!
Erik
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Erik de Castro Lopo
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"It's not that perl programmers are idiots, it's that the
language rewards idiotic behavior in a way that no other
language or tool has ever done." -- Erik Naggum
31 May
31 May
9:32 p.m.
Erik de Castro Lopo wrote:
Robin Gareus wrote:
yes I meant impulse response, and got derailed late that night.
I've been dreaming about a /jackifiying/
spice ;) - I spiced up my
Pfingst Montag by added a libsndfile voltage-source to ng-spice.
Awesome. I love hearing about things like that :-).
Now it's Tueday and using a IR seems the way
to go... simulating the
foxx effect alone is not trivial.
IR == impulse response??
If so, you are way off track. The impulse response method of analyzing
systems is *only* valid for linear time-invariant (LTI) systems and
things like fuzztones are *not* linear. For non-linear systems you need things like Volterra
Series, but beware,
there is some seriously wicked maths there.
ah yes; I thought we hit that snag ;)
anyway, thanks for the encouragement - I've just updated the spice-patch
and documentation. - ngSpice-snd now includes a built-in libsndfile
print command, too. http://mir.dnsalias.com/oss/spicesound/start
robin
29 May
29 May
12:29 p.m.
On Tue, May 29, 2007 at 06:46:40AM +0200, Robin Gareus wrote:
I've been dreaming about a /jackifiying/ spice ;)
- I spiced up my
Pfingst Montag
what's that?
by added a libsndfile voltage-source to ng-spice. -
For
simple circuits it's not too far-off real-time performance: it takes
about 4 seconds to simulate 1 second of foxxtone at 48ksps over here.
Wow. This is a very, very cool hack.
--
Paul Winkler
http://www.slinkp.com
12:40 p.m.
Am Dienstag, 29. Mai 2007 schrieb Paul Winkler:
On Tue, May 29, 2007 at 06:46:40AM +0200, Robin Gareus
wrote:
Pfingsten is pentecost and the reason (at least in germany) for sunday and
monday to be holidays.
Arnold
--
visit http://www.arnoldarts.de/
---
Hi, I am a .signature virus. Please copy me into your ~/.signature and send me
to all your contacts.
After a month or so log in as root and do a rm / -rf. Or ask your
administrator to do so...
I've been dreaming about a /jackifiying/
spice ;) - I spiced up my
Pfingst Montag
what's that?
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linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
15 comments
11 participants
participants (11)
-
Arnold Krille -
Erik de Castro Lopo -
Folderol -
Georg Holzmann -
Ken Restivo -
Michal Seta -
Paul Winkler -
Peter Plessas -
porl sheean -
robert lazarski -
Robin Gareus