4 May
2004
4 May
'04
7:33 a.m.
so i finally got the recording on sb live! platinum working and I'd
like to rip my old LP collection. So I bought the only turntable with
pre-amp I have found, connected it and the sound was terrible (I think
it was mostly too weak, wasn't even at 50% at max), it's also a cheap
denon. I connected it to the RCA inputs on the liveDrive (front panel).
BTW the liveDrive RCA work ok with line6 guitar pod and iPod.
so my off-topic question is - how to connect the turntable? which
turntable to get? since I mostly plan to use it to rip the LPs and I'm
not going to use it afterward I'd prefer cheaper solutions (not the
denon though:-)
I also have receiver with phono input (so no pre-amp in turntable
needed) but I have no way to get the signal out of receiver, it only has
speaker outputs.
so I guess I need sort-of-decent turntable with pre-amp or turntable
plus external pre-amp? any recommendations?
(and yes, I am using linux box with gramofile, so this is at least
close to the topic:-)
TIA
erik
4 May
4 May
8:02 a.m.
Hallo,
Erik Steffl hat gesagt: // Erik Steffl wrote:
so i finally got the recording on sb live! platinum
working and I'd
like to rip my old LP collection. So I bought the only turntable with
pre-amp I have found, connected it and the sound was terrible (I think
it was mostly too weak, wasn't even at 50% at max), it's also a cheap
denon. I connected it to the RCA inputs on the liveDrive (front panel).
BTW the liveDrive RCA work ok with line6 guitar pod and iPod.
so my off-topic question is - how to connect the turntable? which
turntable to get? since I mostly plan to use it to rip the LPs and I'm
not going to use it afterward I'd prefer cheaper solutions (not the
denon though:-)
I also have receiver with phono input (so no pre-amp in turntable
needed) but I have no way to get the signal out of receiver, it only has
speaker outputs.
so I guess I need sort-of-decent turntable with pre-amp or turntable
plus external pre-amp? any recommendations?
So you need new hardware anyways. In that case I would recommend a new
receiver or hifi amp. Then just try you Denon with it. I never used a
turntable with built-in preamp and thus I don't know, what might be
the reason for your Denon's failure.
I have a pretty standard hifi amp with several line connectors for
things like CD player and two tape decks, of which one tape can be
switched to record what is currently playing. It also has a phone in.
I don't own a tape deck anymore, so my computer is connected to the
tapes' line in- and outputs.
That way I can record what my turntable is playing very well. As I
have a lot of 12 inches from my DJing time and those are a pita to
listen too because you're always changing sides I recorded quite a bit
of those to disk. I actually normally just use ecasound for this as
most 12"es have only one track on a side anyways, so I don't need
gramofile's automatic cutting
Ciao
--
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org__
8:21 a.m.
yeah - that or use the preamps in a decent mixer, like a little mackie 12
channel vlz or a vintage neve console ;)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Barknecht" <fbar(a)footils.org>
To: "A list for linux audio users" <linux-audio-user(a)music.columbia.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 2:55 AM
Subject: Re: [linux-audio-user] [OT] recording fom turntable (ripping LPs)
Hallo,
Erik Steffl hat gesagt: // Erik Steffl wrote:
so i finally got the recording on sb live!
platinum working and I'd
like to rip my old LP collection. So I bought the only turntable with
pre-amp I have found, connected it and the sound was terrible (I think
it was mostly too weak, wasn't even at 50% at max), it's also a cheap
denon. I connected it to the RCA inputs on the liveDrive (front panel).
BTW the liveDrive RCA work ok with line6 guitar pod and iPod.
so my off-topic question is - how to connect the turntable? which
turntable to get? since I mostly plan to use it to rip the LPs and I'm
not going to use it afterward I'd prefer cheaper solutions (not the
denon though:-)
I also have receiver with phono input (so no pre-amp in turntable
needed) but I have no way to get the signal out of receiver, it only has
speaker outputs.
so I guess I need sort-of-decent turntable with pre-amp or turntable
plus external pre-amp? any recommendations?
So you need new hardware anyways. In that case I would recommend a new
receiver or hifi amp. Then just try you Denon with it. I never used a
turntable with built-in preamp and thus I don't know, what might be
the reason for your Denon's failure.
I have a pretty standard hifi amp with several line connectors for
things like CD player and two tape decks, of which one tape can be
switched to record what is currently playing. It also has a phone in.
I don't own a tape deck anymore, so my computer is connected to the
tapes' line in- and outputs.
That way I can record what my turntable is playing very well. As I
have a lot of 12 inches from my DJing time and those are a pita to
listen too because you're always changing sides I recorded quite a bit
of those to disk. I actually normally just use ecasound for this as
most 12"es have only one track on a side anyways, so I don't need
gramofile's automatic cutting
Ciao
--
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org__ 
8:39 a.m.
On Tue, May 04, 2004 at 05:11:05 -0700, Aaron Trumm wrote:
yeah - that or use the preamps in a decent mixer, like
a little mackie 12
channel vlz or a vintage neve console ;)
I dont think that will work, you need to reverse the RIAA curve to get
back the original signal. I made a recording of some vynil using just a
mixing desk and it sounds terrible.
Jan Depner has report success by using JAMin to reverse the RIAA curve,
but I've not tried it.
- Steve
9:32 a.m.
you need to reverse the RIAA curve to get
back the original signal.
Audacity has a built in 'equalization' effect with presets for several
disc cutting curves, including RIAA. I'm not sure how you would use
it to reverse the curve though - it looks like it was designed to add
vinyl/shellac equalisation to digital recordings, rather than remove
it from analogue ones recorded without a correcting pre-amp.
The alternative for early recordings is to use an old-school pre-amp
with analogue settings for the different curves used before RIAA
became standard, such as a Leak Varislope:
http://home.mira.net/~kiewavly/Leak/VarislopeII_front_a.jpg
You need two for stereo, and because most Leak stuff is 'collectable'
they are often sold for high prices. They weren't exactly cheap back
in the 1950's though.
I sold my mono Varislope, and these days I use a Musical Fidelity
X-LPS for everything, because I now have a modern pickup cartridge
designed for 78s (an Ortofon) as well as another for 33/45s. The
sound of the 78s probably isn't
http://emedia.leeward.hawaii.edu/frary/x-lp_review.htm
These units are discontinued now, and you can pick them up quite
cheaply from 'end of line' hi-fi dealers - mine cost £100. They go
for more on eBay than the brand new price, so watch out for that!
Cheers
Daniel
11:13 a.m.
On Tue, May 04, 2004 at 12:31:11PM +0100, Daniel James wrote:
Having just upgraded my copy of Audacity I was playing around with it
last night, and I'm sure those curves were high at the LF end and low at
the HF end, which would make them playback compensation rather than
record pre-emphasis.
While you've got audacity open can also use its noise
removal tool to cut out rumble and tape/preamp hiss.
--
Anahata
anahata(a)treewind.co.uk Tel: 01638 720444
http://www.treewind.co.uk Mob: 07976 263827
you need to
reverse the RIAA curve to get
back the original signal.
Audacity has a built in 'equalization' effect with presets for several
disc cutting curves, including RIAA. I'm not sure how you would use
it to reverse the curve though - it looks like it was designed to add
vinyl/shellac equalisation to digital recordings, rather than remove
it from analogue ones recorded without a correcting pre-amp.
10:43 a.m.
On Tue, May 04, 2004 at 11:32:01AM +0100, Steve Harris wrote:
I dont think that will work, you need to reverse the
RIAA curve to get
back the original signal. I made a recording of some vynil using just a
mixing desk and it sounds terrible.
Jan Depner has report success by using JAMin to reverse the RIAA curve,
but I've not tried it.
Audacity has RIAA available as a preset curve for its EQ feature.
I think I'd rather equalize the signal before digitizing, but it's worth
a try if it can be done immediately and without expenditure :-)
It has always puzzled me that the convention was to put the phone preamp
in the amplifier, not in the deck. Tape decks have neraly always adopted
the sensible convention - you have to go back to the 1950's to find
amplifiers with inputs for direct connction to a tape replay head, and
switches for NAB and other curves for different tape speeds.
Oops, I'm showing my age.
--
Anahata
anahata(a)treewind.co.uk Tel: 01638 720444
http://www.treewind.co.uk Mob: 07976 263827
11:04 a.m.
On Tuesday 04 May 2004 08:24, Anahata wrote:
On Tue, May 04, 2004 at 11:32:01AM +0100, Steve Harris
wrote:
Someone just mentioned this on the audacity list. The preset is
for applying the RIAA curve, not negating it. I don't think
Audacity has an "invert curve" feature on its EQ either, though
it should be easy enough to make a reverse RIAA one if someone
looked at where the presets were stored (in the source or
wherever.)
Rob
Jan Depner has report success by using JAMin to
reverse the
RIAA curve, but I've not tried it.
Audacity has RIAA available as a preset
curve for its EQ
feature.
8:46 a.m.
Hallo,
Aaron Trumm hat gesagt: // Aaron Trumm wrote:
yeah - that or use the preamps in a decent mixer, like
a little mackie 12
channel vlz or a vintage neve console ;)
Or use a soundcard with turntable preamps inside. I only once had a
Terratec Phase 26 USB in my hand which had them.
Ciao
--
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org__
5 May
5 May
6:22 a.m.
Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo,
Erik Steffl hat gesagt: // Erik Steffl wrote:
oh! I also have the output for tape deck on the receiver!!! in the
meantime I returned the denon, I guess I'll get a slightly better
turntable and use the receiver after all.
thanks for reminding me what I have:-)
erik
so i finally got the recording on sb live!
platinum working and I'd
like to rip my old LP collection. So I bought the only turntable with
pre-amp I have found, connected it and the sound was terrible (I think
it was mostly too weak, wasn't even at 50% at max), it's also a cheap
denon. I connected it to the RCA inputs on the liveDrive (front panel).
BTW the liveDrive RCA work ok with line6 guitar pod and iPod.
so my off-topic question is - how to connect the turntable? which
turntable to get? since I mostly plan to use it to rip the LPs and I'm
not going to use it afterward I'd prefer cheaper solutions (not the
denon though:-)
I also have receiver with phono input (so no pre-amp in turntable
needed) but I have no way to get the signal out of receiver, it only has
speaker outputs.
so I guess I need sort-of-decent turntable with pre-amp or turntable
plus external pre-amp? any recommendations?
So you need new hardware anyways. In that case I would recommend a new
receiver or hifi amp. Then just try you Denon with it. I never used a
turntable with built-in preamp and thus I don't know, what might be
the reason for your Denon's failure.
I have a pretty standard hifi amp with several line connectors for
things like CD player and two tape decks, of which one tape can be
switched to record what is currently playing. It also has a phone in. 
4 May
4 May
1:01 p.m.
I just had a similar problem. I was getting hum from my receiver/amp so
I connected the turntable outputs directly to a mic preamp (to get
enough gain to record). The problem is that records are/were recorded
using what is known as the RIAA EQ. You can find the technical reasons
on the web. Basically it boosts the treble and cuts the bass. All
phono preamps are supposed to reverse this curve so if you're not using
a phono preamp you get a very tinny sound. What I did was to put the
reproducing RIAA EQ curve into JAMin (setting compression ratios to 1),
run the inputs through JAMin, and then record using Ardour. I could
have put the EQ into Ardour but it's nice to hear it before you record
it. The RIAA EQ .jam file is now in the jamin/examples directory when
you get JAMin from CVS. Just put it into ~/.jamin and load it when you
start JAMin.
Jan
On Tue, 2004-05-04 at 04:26, Erik Steffl wrote:
so i finally got the recording on sb live! platinum
working and I'd
like to rip my old LP collection. So I bought the only turntable with
pre-amp I have found, connected it and the sound was terrible (I think
it was mostly too weak, wasn't even at 50% at max), it's also a cheap
denon. I connected it to the RCA inputs on the liveDrive (front panel).
BTW the liveDrive RCA work ok with line6 guitar pod and iPod.
so my off-topic question is - how to connect the turntable? which
turntable to get? since I mostly plan to use it to rip the LPs and I'm
not going to use it afterward I'd prefer cheaper solutions (not the
denon though:-)
I also have receiver with phono input (so no pre-amp in turntable
needed) but I have no way to get the signal out of receiver, it only has
speaker outputs.
so I guess I need sort-of-decent turntable with pre-amp or turntable
plus external pre-amp? any recommendations?
(and yes, I am using linux box with gramofile, so this is at least
close to the topic:-)
TIA
erik
4:48 p.m.
There are further considerations beyond RIAA equalization and gain.
Moving magnet phonograph cartridges are designed to work into a specific load, typically
47k ohms and 250 pF (e.g., see "Recommended Load" for a Shure V15 on
http://www.shure.com/v15vxmr.html), which is significantly different than the load
presented by a microphone preamp. The wrong load will change the frequency and transient
response of the cartridge.
Phono preamps are designed to present the correct load to a phono cartridge. Good ones
have switchable loads to accommodate different cartridges and to compensate for the
capacitance in the connecting cable. In high-end gear, it is common practice is to modify
the input circuitry of the preamp to specifically match the cartridge and cable in use.
There are also moving coil phono cartridges, which have different requirements.
By contrast, professional microphones typically have source impedance of about 150 to 200
ohms and are designed to be loaded with a pure resistance in the range of 1 to 5 k ohms.
(here are the specs for a Neumann U87
http://www.neumann.com/infopool/mics/en/u87ai_t_data.htm).
If you are serious, my recommendation would be to use a dedicated phono preamp. There are
some very good ones for around $150 like the Parasound PPH-100, which handles both MM and
MC cartridges.
Aaron Heller <heller(a)ai.sri.com>
Menlo Park, CA USA
Jan Depner wrote:
I just had a similar problem. I was getting hum from
my receiver/amp so
I connected the turntable outputs directly to a mic preamp (to get
enough gain to record). The problem is that records are/were recorded
using what is known as the RIAA EQ. You can find the technical reasons
on the web. Basically it boosts the treble and cuts the bass. All
phono preamps are supposed to reverse this curve so if you're not using
a phono preamp you get a very tinny sound. What I did was to put the
reproducing RIAA EQ curve into JAMin (setting compression ratios to 1),
run the inputs through JAMin, and then record using Ardour. I could
have put the EQ into Ardour but it's nice to hear it before you record
it. The RIAA EQ .jam file is now in the jamin/examples directory when
you get JAMin from CVS. Just put it into ~/.jamin and load it when you
start JAMin.
Jan
On Tue, 2004-05-04 at 04:26, Erik Steffl wrote:
so i finally got the recording on sb live!
platinum working and I'd
like to rip my old LP collection. So I bought the only turntable with
pre-amp I have found, connected it and the sound was terrible (I think
it was mostly too weak, wasn't even at 50% at max), it's also a cheap
denon. I connected it to the RCA inputs on the liveDrive (front panel).
BTW the liveDrive RCA work ok with line6 guitar pod and iPod.
so my off-topic question is - how to connect the turntable? which
turntable to get? since I mostly plan to use it to rip the LPs and I'm
not going to use it afterward I'd prefer cheaper solutions (not the
denon though:-)
I also have receiver with phono input (so no pre-amp in turntable
needed) but I have no way to get the signal out of receiver, it only has
speaker outputs.
so I guess I need sort-of-decent turntable with pre-amp or turntable
plus external pre-amp? any recommendations?
(and yes, I am using linux box with gramofile, so this is at least
close to the topic:-)
TIA
erik
5:44 p.m.
On Tue, 2004-05-04 at 13:41, Aaron Heller wrote:
There are further considerations beyond RIAA
equalization and gain.
Moving magnet phonograph cartridges are designed to work into a specific load, typically
47k ohms and 250 pF (e.g., see "Recommended Load" for a Shure V15 on
http://www.shure.com/v15vxmr.html), which is significantly different than the load
presented by a microphone preamp. The wrong load will change the frequency and transient
response of the cartridge.
Phono preamps are designed to present the correct load to a phono cartridge. Good ones
have switchable loads to accommodate different cartridges and to compensate for the
capacitance in the connecting cable. In high-end gear, it is common practice is to modify
the input circuitry of the preamp to specifically match the cartridge and cable in use.
There are also moving coil phono cartridges, which have different requirements.
By contrast, professional microphones typically have source impedance of about 150 to 200
ohms and are designed to be loaded with a pure resistance in the range of 1 to 5 k ohms.
(here are the specs for a Neumann U87
http://www.neumann.com/infopool/mics/en/u87ai_t_data.htm).
If you are serious, my recommendation would be to use a dedicated phono preamp. There
are some very good ones for around $150 like the Parasound PPH-100, which handles both MM
and MC cartridges.
Why would I want to spend $150 on a preamp? I get almost exactly the
same sound from the mic preamps and JAMin EQ that I get from my stereo
amp (with built in phono preamp). After I record it I'm going to encode
it in ogg vorbis. I seriously doubt that I would be able to hear the
difference between the $150 phono preamp and the combination mic/line
preamp and JAMin.
Jan
6:10 p.m.
On Tue, 2004-05-04 at 14:35, Jan Depner wrote:
Why would I want to spend $150 on a preamp?
For better results ;-) I spent quite a lot of time setting up a system
to record lps. I had a Tascam board with a built in phono preamp. It was
not good enough for me. So I had a friend, who worked at a local
turntable shop, hook me up with a good preamp. Big difference.
Just my 2 pence
8:06 p.m.
All of these responses make me feel a bit like a cheater for using the
SPDIF out on my stanton STR8-80 turntable. It works very well. It can
also play 78s... I suppose there are a million things wrong for the eq
curve on those, though.
-Rich
8:32 p.m.
Richard Seymour wrote:
All of these responses make me feel a bit like a
cheater for using the
SPDIF out on my stanton STR8-80 turntable. It works very well. It can
also play 78s... I suppose there are a million things wrong for the eq
curve on those, though.
how does it sound? (when you record something via SPDIF)
erik
5 May
5 May
6:03 a.m.
All of these responses make me feel a bit like a
cheater for using
the SPDIF out on my stanton STR8-80 turntable.
It's not cheating!
It can also play 78s...
Even using a modern cartridge you still need a special stylus for 78s
because the groove is much bigger. I use Ortofon OM 78 and 578 which
are interchangeable with their 33/45 equivalents on the same
cartridge body. You'll also need an arm which can track at 3g plus,
but due to the fashion for scratching and 'turntablism' I'm sure your
Stanton deck will be able to do that.
Cheers
Daniel
7599
days inactive
7600
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
16 comments
11 participants
participants (11)
-
Aaron Heller -
Aaron Trumm -
Anahata -
D R Holsbeck -
Daniel James -
Erik Steffl -
Frank Barknecht -
Jan Depner -
Richard Seymour -
Rob -
Steve Harris