R Parker wrote: point taken ... yeah, i got a bit carried away ... which is my general tendency. or at least cut back on the feedback ... actually, apart from a few minor parts in the song, there's no need for the echo at all. i think losing that, as well as pushing the instruments back and into each other should clear things up a bunch. thanx heaps ... appreciate the comments :) shayne

Luke Yelavich wrote: do you mean the guitar and bass are out of tune with each other, or that they're not tuned to the proper pitch? the bass i'm using has more dead notes than a writer's wastebasket, but it doesn't bother me that much. i really think the general muddiness, and bad levels mentioned by ron parker are more of an issue here ... at least that's all that i personally can focus on when i listen back to it (i should say that, to me, this song has more than a bit of a tribute to the musical forms of Pavement ... and correct tuning in this context has no more relevance than good singing ... ) thanx for listening and constructively criticising :) shayne

OK the vocal sounds like a very early David bowie and thats good. I cant understand out of tune guitars these days as there are many tuners out there. If the guitar is upfront it should be tuned. But as this is mutlitrack just do it again as the vocal sits nice. Just my 2p's worth Bob On Sun, 2005-02-13 at 12:56 +0000, tim hall wrote:

Shayne O'Connor wrote: The necks not inconspicuously cracked someplace is it? Rick B

On Mon, 2005-02-14 at 13:45 +1100, Shayne O'Connor wrote: I have found with my Strat that over time the nuts that hold the tuning pegs in place will get loose. After tightening these (don't overtighten) the guitar stays in tune noticeably better. I think it might even have improved the sound. I have had it for 5 years and did this once, but they were pretty loose by then. You would probably want to check this once a year or so. Lee

Hi Take a look on the net there are some really good guitar building/repair sites that give you load of info. You may find that just re-setting up the guitar will improve things even on the cheaper stuff: http://mysite.verizon.net/jazz.guitar/guitarsetup.htm#Adjusting%20the% 20string%20height%20at%20the%20bridge http://www.mrgearhead.com/faq/fendersupport.html Have a look. Re the pickup placement on strats this really does make a big difference, and also the bridge set up. cheers Bob On Sun, 2005-02-13 at 21:56 -0500, Lee Revell wrote:

On Mon, Feb 14, 2005 at 09:18:43AM +1100, Shayne O'Connor wrote: If the guitar is an elcheapo it may have poor intonation. This will happen with more expensive guitars after you adjust the neck or raise the bridge. It will appear in tune when using a tuner but as soon as you fret anything you can hear that it is not in tune. If your guitar is of good quality (which it really does not sound like (no offense) you might want to at least have the intonation checked over by a professional. Jeremiah

Last Sunday 13 February 2005 22:12, Shayne O'Connor was like: Well, we've had some interesting discussions on here lately about tuning guitars, check the archives. I've certainly learned how to improve my tuning, I've been one of the worst offenders for being slightly out of tune all the time. I'm beginning to understand that the western 12 tone system is innately out of tune with the natural harmonics, so if you tune to harmonics, you'll always be out of tune. The best advice was to tune every other string to the A string or a harmonic of the A string. That works a treat! Heh ;-) I thought the valvestate was a valve pre-amp with a tranny power-amp. It's rather good for recording with IIRC because you can get decent distortion without having to crank it right up. cheers tim hall http://glastonburymusic.org.uk

Hi Shayne, Line outs from amps usually give a very thin crappy signal. You'll do much better miking the amp. Andres Shayne O'Connor wrote:

Hello all! Is there anybody on the list from the bay area, california who knows of any jobs in audio of any kind? Or audio/video, or flipping burgers, or... :) Just relocated here, scouring and scouring (man I've answered a lot of craigslist ads!), need income to survive, not die, and rebuild studio! Thought somebody on this list might have some leads... Thanks in advance y'all! - Aaron Trumm www.nquit.com

Steve D wrote: Yes, and in fact one should. A guitar that does have the intonation set properly can produce harmonics that are not in tune with fretted notes. -- Rule of Feline Frustration: When your cat has fallen asleep on your lap and looks utterly content and adorable, you will suddenly have to go to the bathroom.

Well the harmonics on a guitar will always sound a bit sharper to their relevant corresponding note. Not like a lot sharper(not like a semi-tone), but only a bit. I tune with harmonics on the guitar(mostly nylon) and is particularly good for fine tuning. I use the B harmonic on the 'Low E' To tune the B(plain note) string. It has always come naturally to me. And also the high E note(even on the piano.. 'i think') corresponds to the harmonics on the 5th fret on the Low E string and harmonics on the 7th fret of A string. Now these three note are almost similar, and is good way to check when you are using one note as a mark up to tune all the strings.(which means that when you don't have the fancy tuning gadgets.. just a humble old tuning fork) IT is always good to be tuning (even cross check) with the harmonics. Bhole nath sabke sath Ish :::where is the revolution? On February 14, 7:28 pm "Brett W. McCoy" <idragosani(a)chapelperilous.net> wrote:

I almost passed up those conversatins, but stayed on the thread long enough to find the one most important peice of information that has (really!!!) improved my tuning... That is... tune one string with some tuning device (i use a pitch fork) and then tune (all other) strings to (that one) string that was tuned to the tuning device. That way, there isn't a huge deviation from the original "center" because all strings are being tuned from the same reference point. I understand the concept about the "A" string being "more stable" and therefore start with that one. But I've had luck with the "B" string (because I tune my guitar down a whole step and so the "B" string is now an "A" string and the tuning fork is an "A" note). But I've had great luck with this. Rocco

On Wed, 16 Feb, 2005 at 12:19PM +1100, Shayne O'Connor spake thus: I can't wait! Lovely. Looking forward to it. -- "I'd crawl over an acre of 'Visual This++' and 'Integrated Development That' to get to gcc, Emacs, and gdb. Thank you." (By Vance Petree, Virginia Power)

On Mon, Feb 14, 2005 at 09:12:30AM +1100, Shayne O'Connor wrote: I can make testimonies about how bad it can be although I've been tuning guitars for over 25 years now. My 20-year 12-strings acoustic Ibanez had gone bad during the years. The neck was a bit out of place. The body on the guitar, behind the saddle, was 2mm higher than the rest of the body in front of it. The fretboard and the frets were badly worn down. But I have played this guitar over the years so much that I got used to the sound and forgot how good a 12-string can sound. "Luckily" my 13 year old son broke the neck on it this December and I was a bit sad. It took me to after new years eve to go to a guitar repair and get the final judgment "this guitar is never going to be used as a guitar again. glue it together and hang it on the wall". I asked the guy if he had some nice 12-strings laying around. He showed me a 9-strings guitar from Czech Republic and boy was I happy. It had a beautiful sound and the best part. It could be tuned :-). So sometimes it's just old habits. Your song is nice although I agree with the one that said that you need to bring out the voice a bit. For my own ears I think that you need to separate the different instruments a bit (but I'm listening in head phones) and just give the echo-repeat knob a slight push. But hey. If you really have a thought with it. Keep it. It's called artistic freedom :-) Keep up the good work. Hopefully I'll be posting my own small productions here as well. regards, /bengan PS. I really need an English dictionary/encyclopedia for musical and sound engineering stuff. Is there anyone out there? I've tried the wikipedia but it doesn't cover all the stuff I need. DS.

Shayne O'Connor wrote: Yes the guitar is out of tune a little, but the song has alot of potential. I really like your style. After listening to it once I kept humming it all day long. Rick B

On Sun, 2005-02-13 at 21:03 +1100, Luke Yelavich wrote: Then again there are always counterexamples, like "Highway 61 Revisited", where the guitar and piano are horribly out of tune on half the tracks but it still works. Lee

tim hall wrote: i'll try that out. thanx a bunch :) shayne

On Tue, 15 Feb, 2005 at 11:57AM +0100, Jan Weil spake thus: No, not what I wanted, but now something I'll be reading regularly. Cheers! Not quite, but that looks fun... -- "I'd crawl over an acre of 'Visual This++' and 'Integrated Development That' to get to gcc, Emacs, and gdb. Thank you." (By Vance Petree, Virginia Power)

On Tue, 15 Feb, 2005 at 09:22PM +1000, Mark Constable spake thus: I was thinking more of a mailing list - something that's active rather than passive (things drop into my mailbox rather than me going and looking to see what's happening). Well, I see no reason why the two can't be combined and just make list for showing off, getting people to collaborate and other grooviness. What do people think? Is one more list too much? I already have an inbox fit to burst from LAU and LAD, but I'd quite like something like this. If enough people like the idea, I could set something up. -- "I'd crawl over an acre of 'Visual This++' and 'Integrated Development That' to get to gcc, Emacs, and gdb. Thank you." (By Vance Petree, Virginia Power)

Chris Cannam wrote: i think this would be a great idea too - i had originally planned to upload "The Sailor" with drums and without drums, so any drummer out there could download a version to play along with, then maybe upload a drum-track to be merged back into it ... but i ended up being happy with the one i made, so i didn't bother. but i'd be more than happy to offer up this and future tracks for mixing etc ... a seperate list should happen methinks! shayne

james(a)dis-dot-dat.net wrote: I find a Wiki is good compromise between a free flowing mailing-list and some web based portal. One only has to check one URL which could be an RSS feed quite easily... http://opensrc.org/?page=RecentChanges This is awkward in a mailing-list which is why these sites are linked to from the Wiki at opensrc.org, so that a user can upload large ogg/flac or mp3 files via ftp, for example.. http://esm.opensrc.org --markc

james(a)dis-dot-dat.net wrote: I agree with the unmixed audio thing. It would also give Linux users who aren't musicians an opportunity to learn how to mix. And he's right about your voice Shayne, it does suit the style real well. Rick B

Jon Morin wrote: thanx for the kind words! The La's? i'll have to check them out ... they sound familiar ... bring em on! shayne