14 Nov
2004
14 Nov
'04
1:09 p.m.
Hi,
these days I really was amazed, because while discussing the
new Virus TI in the Access mailing list, I was told that the
Virus TI will do audio over a 1.1 USB bus.
Is it really true that USB 1.1 can do audio, and if so, are
there any USB soundcards out there which one could recommend?
I did a search in the archives of this list, and found a
recommendation of Clemens Ladisch that the Edirol UA-30 is
working well.
Unfortunately, it seems that it is discontinued. So, are there
any further devices one of you uses successfully?
I ask because I have a Dell Inspiron notebook and the audio
connection is simply lousy; if there were any USB 1.1
soundcard which will work well on my Gentoo box, I guess I'd
immediately buy one!
I put some system specs below. Lets see what I'm looking for
in detail:
* Audio in and out, both stereo
* Mic in
* Headphones out (not needed necessarily)
* MIDI not necessarily required because I already use an
Edirol UM-1S
Furthermore, what would you like to recommend as plugs? What
are the (dis)advantages between cinch and 3.5mm plugs?
Thanks a lot for your thoughts,
ce
uname -a
Linux Grandevitesse 2.6.7-gentoo-r6 #5 SMP Sat Oct 9 23:31:33
CEST 2004 i686 Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 Mobile CPU 1.60GHz
GenuineIntel GNU/Linux
/proc/asound/version
Advanced Linux Sound Architecture Driver Version 1.0.4 (Mon
May 17 14:31:44 2004 UTC).
Compiled on Oct 9 2004 for kernel 2.6.7-gentoo-r6 (SMP).
14 Nov
14 Nov
3:30 p.m.
Hallo,
Christoph Eckert hat gesagt: // Christoph Eckert wrote:
Is it really true that USB 1.1 can do audio,
It is true. USB1 can do up do 8 channels of 44.1kHz/16bit sounddata.
and if so, are there any USB soundcards out there
which one could
recommend?
I did a search in the archives of this list, and found a
recommendation of Clemens Ladisch that the Edirol UA-30 is
working well.
Unfortunately, it seems that it is discontinued. So, are there
any further devices one of you uses successfully?
Discontinued? I'm sure you can still get it at various stores or
web auctions.
I ask because I have a Dell Inspiron notebook and the
audio
connection is simply lousy; if there were any USB 1.1
soundcard which will work well on my Gentoo box, I guess I'd
immediately buy one!
I tested about 20 USB cards half a year ago, and almost every card
worked plug and play on Linux. I cannot recommend the M-Audio boxes,
though. Most Edirol cards work, both Terratec USB cards work (I use
the Aureon USB myself) but these are just two examples. If you can
take your laptop to the shop, this would be the best option for you:
Set up hotplug and ALSA for a snd-usb-audio card in advance, then ask
if you can test the device in the shop. Good shops will let you do it.
Online vendors (in Germany) like Thomann have a good return policy, so
there's no risk buying something online, too.
Furthermore, what would you like to recommend as
plugs? What
are the (dis)advantages between cinch and 3.5mm plugs?
Cinch is not soo good if you need to oconnect and disconnect very
often. For this, "Klinke" (what was the english word?) connectors are
much better, because they are made for frequent plugging in and out.
However both are fine in general, and I wouldn't base my choice on the
plugs alone.
Ciao
--
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org__
4:09 p.m.
Frank Barknechts Tastatur gab folgendes zu Protokoll ;-) :
It is true. USB1 can do up do 8 channels of
44.1kHz/16bit
sounddata.
I can't belive that. When I watch my USB camera transferring
pictures to my notebook, I'd never expect to be able to
transport 8 channels simultaneously to the box.
So, I really can use my USB 1.1-bus to use it in conjunction
with a full duplex stereo in stereo out card? I can't believe
that - and I guess, I'm going to try it out ;-) .
Discontinued? I'm sure you can still get it at
various
stores or web auctions.
On the official Edirol page, I didn't find it. Otherwise, I'm
not stuck on Edirol.
I tested about 20 USB cards half a year ago, and
almost
every card worked plug and play on Linux.
Ah, I remember; nice to hear.
I cannot
recommend the M-Audio boxes, though. Most Edirol cards
work, both Terratec USB cards work (I use the Aureon USB
myself) but these are just two examples. If you can take
your laptop to the shop, this would be the best option for
you: Set up hotplug and ALSA for a snd-usb-audio card in
advance, then ask if you can test the device in the shop.
Hmmm. I meanwhile use a Gentoo installation, and hotplug isn't
really preconfigured well, so manual adjustment will be
necessary, and I'm not that experienced so I would spend a
whole afternoon in the shop ;-) . Anyway, I'd include a 7
days monex back guarantee with the dealer.
Good shops will let you do it. Online vendors (in
Germany)
like Thomann have a good return policy, so there's no risk
buying something online, too.
Yes, I've already been on the Thomann store today in the
afternoon :) .
Cinch is not soo good if you need to oconnect and
disconnect very often. For this, "Klinke" (what was the
english word?)
I also didn't find the correct word, dict.leo.org has failed
today :) .
connectors are much better, because they are
made for frequent plugging in and out.
OK, you're right of course.
However both are
fine in general, and I wouldn't base my choice on the plugs
alone.
Hm, I also think about the many adapters I will need, and
adapters are very expensive. My mixer has symmetrical
'Klinke' outputs. Cinch have no possibility to shield the
cable, so I'll try to get a 'Klinke' one.
Thanks a lot for your hints. I'll have a look (I already have
seen that there are lots of USB cards out there), and as soon
I have found one I'd politely ask you if you can tell me
something about it, if you agree ;-) .
Best regards
ce
5:17 p.m.
Hallo,
Christoph Eckert hat gesagt: // Christoph Eckert wrote:
Frank Barknechts Tastatur gab folgendes zu Protokoll
;-) :
Yes, it's really true. ;)
It is true. USB1 can do up do 8 channels of
44.1kHz/16bit
sounddata.
I can't belive that. When I watch my USB camera transferring
pictures to my notebook, I'd never expect to be able to
transport 8 channels simultaneously to the box. Thanks a lot for your hints. I'll have a look (I
already have
seen that there are lots of USB cards out there), and as soon
I have found one I'd politely ask you if you can tell me
something about it, if you agree ;-) .
Yes, of course. One thing to consider is: USB 1.1 already is a bit
dated. Personally I wouldn't spend too much money on a
USB-1.1-soundcard anymore, that's why I went with the cheap Terratec
card. I never ran a USB2 soundcard, but IIRC ALSA has support for them
in kernel 2.6. and USB2 is better suited for audio, I suppose, if
alone for the even higher bandwidth.
I still run a USB1 card, because my laptop doesn't have a USB2 port,
otherwise I would probably look into those cards. But then, my el
cheapo Terratec card works very fine and so I don't really need an
upgrade.
Ciao
--
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org__
5:43 p.m.
Hi you both (and the rest of you),
On Sunday 14 November 2004 20:30, Frank Barknecht wrote:
Christoph Eckert hat gesagt: // Christoph Eckert
wrote:
Just a question: Is the Tascam US122 USB1.x? If yes, I will buy it for
christmas.
What makes this device cool:
- If it is USB1.x I can use it with my laptop.
- It has 2 Mic-Ins with XLR and Phantompower all feed from the USB-bus, no
extra powersupply.
- It has some nice other features and is "only" 222EUR at thomann...
Is it really true that USB 1.1 can do audio,
It is true. USB1 can do up do 8 channels of 44.1kHz/16bit sounddata. Cinch is not soo good if you need to oconnect and
disconnect very
often. For this, "Klinke" (what was the english word?) connectors are
Afaik "Klinke" is called jack in english...
Good night,
Arnold
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6:16 p.m.
a certain Arnold Krille <arnold(a)arnoldarts.de> wrote:
Hi you both (and the rest of you),
Just a question: Is the Tascam US122 USB1.x? If yes, I will buy it for
christmas.
it's 1.1. look here: http://www.tascam.de/us-122.html
m
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--------___________________________
hear me here: http://www.mprims.tk
15 Nov
15 Nov
4:17 p.m.
On Sunday 14 November 2004 23:40, Christoph Eckert wrote:
;-) And the list is even longer:
A bass, the tascam and optionally one or two condensator-mics for live
recordings (mono or stereo).
So its a lot of money to spend, maybe I should ask my parents for a direct
sponsoring...
Arnold
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to all your contacts.
After a month or so log in as root and do a rm / -rf. Or ask your
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Just a
question: Is the Tascam US122 USB1.x? If yes, I will
buy it for christmas.
the best gifts are the ones you buy yourself, isn't it
;-) ?
14 Nov
14 Nov
6:55 p.m.
- It has 2 Mic-Ins with XLR and Phantompower all feed
from
the USB-bus, no extra powersupply.
Isn't phantom power 48Volts?
I wonder that the device can get 48V from the USB bus. One
device is allowed to get a maximum of 500mAmpere from the
bus.
USB is 5V. This means, the card has to convert 5V to 48V and
would certainly need more than 5V/500mAmp. Maybe the phantom
power is only available in conjunction with an external power
supply?
Just my 2 Cents.
Best regards
ce
7:49 p.m.
Am Sonntag 14 November 2004 23:55 schrieb Christoph Eckert:
Don't know, but a step up converter wouldn't need much power, if the 48V would
only feed some µA.
I guess a phantom powered mic sucks less than 1mA, no?
Somebody knowing please tell us;-)
Karsten
- It has 2 Mic-Ins with XLR and Phantompower all
feed from
the USB-bus, no extra powersupply.
Isn't phantom power 48Volts?
I wonder that the device can get 48V from the USB bus. One
device is allowed to get a maximum of 500mAmpere from the
bus.
USB is 5V. This means, the card has to convert 5V to 48V and
would certainly need more than 5V/500mAmp. Maybe the phantom
power is only available in conjunction with an external power
supply? 
8:39 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] OT: gear for sale
Hey all - more gear for sale from over here NQuit way - Off topic of course,
but plenty of people on here might need such gear so I like to post the link
here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3762297123
See ya!
---------------
Aaron Trumm
www.nquit.com
---------------
8:57 p.m.
On Sunday 14 November 2004 23:51, Karsten Wiese wrote:
Don't know, but a step up converter wouldn't
need much power, if the 48V
would only feed some µA. I guess a phantom powered mic sucks less than 1mA,
no?
Somebody knowing please tell us;-)
It is fed to the mic thru a pair of 6K8 resistors and the mic will pull it
down an arbitary amount. Some mices will pull 5mA or so. Not particularly
problematic with but hardly uA.
Regards, Dan.
10:16 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] OT: Gear for sale
Hey all - more gear for sale from over here NQuit way - Off topic of course,
but plenty of people on here might need such gear so I like to post the link
here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3762297123
See ya!
---------------
Aaron Trumm
www.nquit.com
---------------
15 Nov
15 Nov
12:40 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] `DSSi and instrument definitions.
I finally got around to getting DSSI working properly with Rosegarden (yay!).
So I'm trying to wrap my heaad around how DSSI synths store their information.
I know how to save a qsynth setup as an instrument definition in the studio,
but can't figure out how to do the equivalent for DSSI/Fluidsynth. I'm
assuming from the little bit of experience I have with DSSI that that
information is not saved with *.rg files - but, my experience is scant, so
hopefully there's a way to do it without having to redefine each instrument
every time I reload the song.
Is there a way to do this, and if so, how?
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
R.
==
4:32 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] `DSSi and instrument definitions.
On Monday 15 Nov 2004 04:20, Rick Henry wrote:
So I'm trying to wrap my heaad around how DSSI
synths store their
information. I know how to save a qsynth setup as an instrument
definition in the studio, but can't figure out how to do the
equivalent for DSSI/Fluidsynth. I'm assuming from the little bit of
experience I have with DSSI that that information is not saved with
*.rg files
It certainly should be. You should simply be able to assign a track to
a synth plugin instrument, edit the instrument however you like, then
save the .rg file, and everything should be restored when you reload
it. Just as is the case for audio plugins. (The .rgd device files are
not relevant to synth plugin tracks.)
If this doesn't work for you, then we'd like to know about it, here or
on the rosegarden-user list.
(Although a DSSI plugin editor GUI is a separate process from the host,
every communication it sends to the plugin goes via the host. So the
host should always know everything necessary to restore the synth's
previous state when it's reloaded.)
Chris
2:10 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] USB audio and MIDI (two ports)
Here's another problem I've run into after a SUSE upgrade.
I used to be able to hang an Edirol UA1X off one USB port and an Edirol UM2
off a second USB port - both were recognized and usable (this was on SUSE 9.1
- 2.6.5.xx) at the same time in Rosegarden, JACK.
I've ugraded to SUSE 9.2 - (kernel 2.6.8) and while both are recognized (I can
see them both in Rosegarden, JACK) I can only use one at a time. In other
words, when I try to output to a MIDI port while the audio I/F is plugged in,
I get no MIDI output to the UM2. As soon as I unplug the UA1X, I'm able to
output the the MIDI ports.
Any ideas?
Thanks for any help.
R.
==
3:27 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] USB audio and MIDI (two ports)
I used to be able to hang an Edirol UA1X off one USB
port
and an Edirol UM2 off a second USB port - both were
recognized and usable (this was on SUSE 9.1 - 2.6.5.xx) at
the same time in Rosegarden, JACK.
Interesting question, and I cannot tell anything useful about
it.
On the other hand, I have an Edirol UM-1S, and I currently
plan to buy a second USB audio soundcard. Are here some
people using two USB devices at the same time successfully,
or should I better buy a device which offers both audio and
usb in one device?
May also be useful for Rick to know if and if so what distros
are able to support such a configuration.
Best regards
ce
3:54 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] USB audio and MIDI (two ports)
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 20:27:13 +0100, Christoph Eckert wrote
... Are here some
people using two USB devices at the same time successfully,
or should I better buy a device which offers both audio and
usb in one device?
In SUSE 9.1 I was able to use both. I suspect it's an ALSA issue with the
newer version included in SUSE 9.2, but can't be sure. I have found some
google entries talking about a specific Edirol workaround (advanced driver)
for ALSA 0.9.5, but SUSE 9.2 is at 1.0.6.
R.
==
4:51 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] USB audio and MIDI (two ports)
Well, I feel silly.
I had a backup on another hard drive of my old SUSE 9.1 config, so I took a
look at it. Looks like YAST wasn't putting in the alias for the second I/F
(the UM2). I manually added it in and all is well now.
Also on the plus side, SUSE 9.2 seems a bit more tuned as far as not seeing as
many XRUNS goes. I can load up a piece with 20-22 MIDI tracks (some muted and
unmuted), plus another 8-10 softsynth tracks (albeit not very busy, musically)
and not see XRUNS.
Granted, I also upgraded the hard drive (bigger, faster), so that probably
helps as well.
Coolness.
R.
==
6:46 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] USB audio and MIDI (two ports)
I had a backup on another hard drive of my old SUSE
9.1
config, so I took a look at it. Looks like YAST wasn't
putting in the alias for the second I/F (the UM2). I
manually added it in and all is well now.
Great to hear. Now have fun :) .
Best regards
ce
9:58 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] USB audio and MIDI (two ports)
No idea but this might be a better question for the alsa-user list.
Really? I ask this seriously, because I see all sorts of audio driver
questions posted here. But, if it's not the right place, then I'll abide.
R.
==
16 Nov
16 Nov
3:09 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] USB audio and MIDI (two ports)
On Mon, 2004-11-15 at 18:38 -0700, Rick Henry wrote:
I only say this because it sounds like you have a driver issue and most
of the ALSA developers read alsa-user, I am not sure whether they read
LAU.
Lee
No idea but this might be a better question for the alsa-user list.
Really? I ask this seriously, because I see all sorts of audio driver
questions posted here. But, if it's not the right place, then I'll abide.
15 Nov
15 Nov
4:21 p.m.
On Sunday 14 November 2004 23:55, Christoph Eckert wrote:
Condensor mics have a condensor which only needs to be charged, for the rest
they only need low current (dont know exact numbers). And most mics are able
for 5V to 52V or something like that because they also convert the voltage to
their needed value...
As far as I know...
Arnold
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After a month or so log in as root and do a rm / -rf. Or ask your
administrator to do so...
- It has 2
Mic-Ins with XLR and Phantompower all feed from
the USB-bus, no extra powersupply.
Isn't phantom power 48Volts?
I wonder that the device can get 48V from the USB bus. One
device is allowed to get a maximum of 500mAmpere from the
bus.
USB is 5V. This means, the card has to convert 5V to 48V and
would certainly need more than 5V/500mAmp. Maybe the phantom
power is only available in conjunction with an external power
supply? 
5:17 p.m.
On Mon, Nov 15, 2004 at 09:21:32PM +0100, Arnold Krille wrote:
Condensor mics have a condensor which only needs to be
charged, for the rest
they only need low current (dont know exact numbers).
About 2mA for many mics.
The specification for phantom power says that the 48V behind the 6k8
resistors should remain stable for current drain up to 10mA. Apparently
some phantom power supplies fail to meet this and won't work with a few
mics that do draw that much.
And most mics are able
for 5V to 52V or something like that
Some externally polarized condensers quite intolerant of
sub-standard power.
Many so-called condenser mics are in fact electrets. Their only
need for power is for the FET amplifier which will work on anything
over about 1V internally.
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Home: 01638 720444 Mob: 07976 263827
14 Nov
14 Nov
7:02 p.m.
Just a question: Is the Tascam US122 USB1.x?
I guess so, because it is annaounced at Thomann to be Mac OS
8.6 compatible:
http://www.netzmarkt.de/thomann/tascam_us428_demo_prodinfo.html
Best regards
ce
15 Nov
15 Nov
4:25 p.m.
On Monday 15 November 2004 00:05, Christoph Eckert wrote:
Sounds like a call for a clued-in cinch to jack adapter...
I am convinced, I will buy it. Thanks everyone for the answers!
Arnold
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After a month or so log in as root and do a rm / -rf. Or ask your
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- It has some
nice other features and is "only" 222EUR at
thomann...
Somehow I miss a second stereo output and the outputs to be
also Jacks instead of cinch.
14 Nov
14 Nov
8:32 p.m.
A no go relating USB 1.1 audio playback is intel's ICH6 (i915 & i925 chipsets) in
its first production incarnation.
Marking 82801FB SL7AG.
Thanks to intel's really usefull errata docs, I stopped wondering about the dropouts i
got:
<snip>
7. Intel® ICH6 Completion Delays Problem:
ICH6 internal devices or devices connected to the ICH6 may experience additional
completion delays of up to 40 usec.
Implication: No end user functional impact expected. Most ICH6 devices are buffered
adequately to withstand an additional 40 usec delay.
The UHCI (Full-speed only) may experience underruns and PCI may experience downstream
request delays.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Both implications are allowable their respective industry specifications.
Workaround: None.
Status: Fixed in B-2 stepping.
</snip>
Karsten
4:29 p.m.
A no go relating USB 1.1 audio playback is intel's
ICH6
(i915 & i925 chipsets) in its first production incarnation.
Marking 82801FB SL7AG.
Thanks for the hint. I did a
lspci | grep -i 82801
0000:00:1d.0 USB Controller: Intel Corp. 82801CA/CAM USB (Hub
#1) (rev 02)
0000:00:1d.2 USB Controller: Intel Corp. 82801CA/CAM USB (Hub
#3) (rev 02)
0000:00:1e.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corp. 82801 PCI Bridge (rev 42)
0000:00:1f.0 ISA bridge: Intel Corp. 82801CAM ISA Bridge (LPC)
(rev 02)
0000:00:1f.1 IDE interface: Intel Corp. 82801CAM IDE U100 (rev
02)
0000:00:1f.5 Multimedia audio controller: Intel Corp.
82801CA/CAM AC'97 Audio Controller (rev 02)
0000:00:1f.6 Modem: Intel Corp. 82801CA/CAM AC'97 Modem
Controller (rev 02)
so it doesn't seem I'll run into trouble, or should I take
care?
Thanks for your worthy information.
Best regards
ce
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linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
31 comments
11 participants
participants (11)
-
Aaron Trumm -
anahata -
Arnold Krille -
Chris Cannam -
Dan Mills -
Frank Barknecht -
Karsten Wiese -
Lee Revell -
mchristoph.eckert＠t-online.de -
mik -
Rick Henry