8 Jan
2008
8 Jan
'08
1:33 p.m.
Hi,
I'm new to ardour and would like to know how you
created this "channel
strip". I am accustomed to certain features already being part of each
channels/tracks strip, like eq, under Windows recording apps, but have
found this isn't the case with ardour.
Could you please explain how you did this, thanks.
Well, I don't know if we mean the same, but I just put the desired
effects into the ardour-track in the mixer window. Nothing special.
Check out this mixer strip:
http://ardour.org/files/manual/images/mixerstrip.png
The plugins "Barry's Sa....", "Allpass de..." and "AM
pitcha..." are the
plugins. And that is where you can load, unload, bypass, etc. the plugins.
Try inserting the "Artificial latency"
plugin from the swh-plugins
mhmmm... that doesn't work. However, the latency of the swh plugin gets
compensated like it should be.
Those two statements contradict each other. What
exactly is not
working on it? How exactly are you using it?
Hi.
I did what Lars suggested, I tried inserting the "Artificial latency"
plugin from the swh-plugins package after the VSTs. I understood "After
the VSTs..." as loading it into the same channel strip right after the
VST plugins. The channel routing is now:
Audio -> Stereo Bus -> VST plugins -> swh artificial intelligence ->
Ardour Fader/Panning ... -> Master Out.
Then I tried to change the delay value of the swh plugin. The Swh plugin
itself doesn't produce any effect. The VSTs are still delaying the
channel without getting compensated.
Am I doing something wrong?
Thanks in advance.
Best,
Sebastian.
9 Jan
9 Jan
6:56 a.m.
New subject: ArdourVST - Latency Management
On Tue, Jan 08, 2008 at 06:33:35PM +0100, Sebastian Tschöpel wrote:
I did what Lars suggested, I tried inserting the
"Artificial latency"
plugin from the swh-plugins package after the VSTs. I understood "After
the VSTs..." as loading it into the same channel strip right after the
VST plugins. The channel routing is now:
Audio -> Stereo Bus -> VST plugins -> swh artificial intelligence ->
Ardour Fader/Panning ... -> Master Out.
Then I tried to change the delay value of the swh plugin. The Swh plugin
itself doesn't produce any effect. The VSTs are still delaying the
channel without getting compensated.
Am I doing something wrong?
Just did a quick test: created to busses, both get the same signal,
one has the artificial latency plugin. Their outputs are still
the same... Seems like Ardour does try to compensate for the fake
latency (the playhead moves back when started, output is delayed),
but the delay is apparently also applied to the strip that reports
the latency.
--
FA
Laboratorio di Acustica ed Elettroacustica
Parma, Italia
Lascia la spina, cogli la rosa.
11:06 a.m.
New subject: ArdourVST - Latency Management
Hi Fons,
one has the artificial latency plugin. Their outputs
are still
the same... Seems like Ardour does try to compensate for the fake
latency (the playhead moves back when started, output is delayed),
Correct. Ardour does. But apparently not when i use VST plugins.
Another question is why your plugins are producing
so much delay. The plugin mechanism by itself doesn't.
EQ certainly shouldn't, a reverb should pass the dr....
Well, that is something only the authors can give an answer for. First
of all, this is a problem I have with all VST plugins I tried. When
there are plugins that seem to produce no/nearly no latency then its
only a task of opening more of them in the same strip to see whats
really going on. For some others, like the (wonderful and free) SIR
convolution/impulse response reverb, it only takes one instance.
Best regards,
Sebastian.
11:14 a.m.
New subject: ArdourVST - Latency Management
Sebastian Tschöpel wrote:
... this is a problem I have with all VST plugins I
tried. When
there are plugins that seem to produce no/nearly no latency then its
only a task of opening more of them in the same strip to see whats
really going on. For some others, like the (wonderful and free) SIR
convolution/impulse response reverb, it only takes one instance.
Have you tried
using one of the VST plugins for latency compensation,
e.g. voxengo's Latency Delay plugin ?
Best,
dp
12:02 p.m.
New subject: ArdourVST - Latency Management
Hello Dave,
Have you tried using one of the VST plugins for
latency compensation,
e.g. voxengo's Latency Delay plugin ?
Yes. I did. Didn't changed anything about the latency. Not even the VLD
plugin itself gets compensated.
Best regards,
Sebastian.
12:53 p.m.
New subject: ArdourVST - Latency Management
Sebastian Tschöpel wrote:
Hi Fons,
most convolvers will produce a latency that is the same as the chunk
size (jconv is the only exception i'm aware of), so that's probably not
a good testcase..
--
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home://germany/45128 essen/lortzingstr. 11/
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phone://+49/201/491621
Kurt is up in Heaven now.
one has the artificial latency plugin. Their
outputs are still
the same... Seems like Ardour does try to compensate for the fake
latency (the playhead moves back when started, output is delayed),
Correct. Ardour does. But apparently not when i use VST plugins.
Another question is why your plugins are
producing
so much delay. The plugin mechanism by itself doesn't.
EQ certainly shouldn't, a reverb should pass the dr....
Well, that is something only the authors can give an answer for. First
of all, this is a problem I have with all VST plugins I tried. When
there are plugins that seem to produce no/nearly no latency then its
only a task of opening more of them in the same strip to see whats
really going on. For some others, like the (wonderful and free) SIR
convolution/impulse response reverb, it only takes one instance.
1:25 p.m.
New subject: ArdourVST - Latency Management
most convolvers will produce a latency that is the
same as the chunk
size (jconv is the only exception i'm aware of), so that's probably not
a good testcase..
As I said, this has nothing to do with the plugin. The problem appears
with any plugin.
--
Best regards,
Sebastian.
web: linuxaudioblog.sternenhejim.de
10 Jan
10 Jan
8:07 a.m.
New subject: ArdourVST - Latency Management
Hello List,
Hello JackLab Team,
I tried some things today concerning this latency issue. To sum up:
There wasn't any problem with the plugins itself. As I said, I tried a
lot of them and the problem appeared anyway. I didn't try it on my
"music-machine" but on my laptop I worked with two different ArdourVST
versions today.
First build: http://wiki.jacklab.net/index.php/Ardour_with_VST
The second one made by following this manual:
http://ardour.org/building_vst_support
Well, it worked with the second build so I assume it has something to do
with the Jacklab build. I'm going to try it on my "music-machine" later
today and will tell you about my experiences.
--
Best regards,
Sebastian.
web: linuxaudioblog.sternenhejim.de
11:37 a.m.
New subject: ArdourVST - Latency Management
Hello List,
Hello JackLab Team,
I tried some things today concerning this latency issue. To sum up:
There wasn't any problem with the plugins itself. As I said, I tried a
lot of them and the problem appeared anyway. I didn't try it on my
"music-machine" but on my laptop I worked with two different ArdourVST
versions today.
First build: http://wiki.jacklab.net/index.php/Ardour_with_VST
The second one made by following this manual:
http://ardour.org/building_vst_support
Well, it worked with the second build so I assume it has something to do
with the Jacklab build. I'm going to try it on my "music-machine" later
today and will tell you about my experiences.
Okay. I tried it on my music machine but found another totally different
result. The latency of VST plugins gets compensated on tracks, but not
on busses.
-.-
Maybe i should read the Bus/Track Concept- Page in the manual again. Is
that a known issue?
--
Best regards,
Sebastian.
web: linuxaudioblog.sternenhejim.de
1:27 p.m.
New subject: ArdourVST - Latency Management
On Thu, 2008-01-10 at 16:37 +0100, Sebastian wrote:
ardour doesn't do latency compensation for busses. maybe it should.
there is an implementation between:
1) compensate by delaying playback onset of disk material
2) compensate by using delay buffers
they each have their own plusses and minuses. right now, ardour uses
(1), and since busses have no disk material, they cannot be compensated.
Hello List,
Hello JackLab Team,
I tried some things today concerning this latency issue. To sum up:
There wasn't any problem with the plugins itself. As I said, I tried a
lot of them and the problem appeared anyway. I didn't try it on my
"music-machine" but on my laptop I worked with two different ArdourVST
versions today.
First build: http://wiki.jacklab.net/index.php/Ardour_with_VST
The second one made by following this manual:
http://ardour.org/building_vst_support
Well, it worked with the second build so I assume it has something to do
with the Jacklab build. I'm going to try it on my "music-machine" later
today and will tell you about my experiences.
Okay. I tried it on my music machine but found another totally different
result. The latency of VST plugins gets compensated on tracks, but not
on busses. 
4:41 p.m.
New subject: ArdourVST - Latency Management
Am Donnerstag, 10. Januar 2008 schrieb Paul Davis:
ardour doesn't do latency compensation for busses.
maybe it should.
there is an implementation between:
1) compensate by delaying playback onset of disk material
2) compensate by using delay buffers
they each have their own plusses and minuses. right now, ardour uses
(1), and since busses have no disk material, they cannot be compensated.
If busses had latency-compensation a lot of work would be needed: Adding
effects like reverb and delay is usually (at least in my workflow) done by
adding a bus with that effect and adding sends to all the channels. That adds
parallel signal flows with just some simple mouse-clicks and calls for _lot_
of intelligence from the latency-compensation...
And what do you do if a bus gets only signals from outside?
I think the current way is right because its easy.
Arnold
--
visit http://www.arnoldarts.de/
---
Hi, I am a .signature virus. Please copy me into your ~/.signature and send me
to all your contacts.
After a month or so log in as root and do a "rm -rf /". Or ask your
administrator to do so...
11 Jan
11 Jan
4:42 a.m.
New subject: ArdourVST - Latency Management
Hi.
Okay guys. I'll deal with what I have. As long as I know the reasons
I'll find workarounds.
Thanks.
--
Best regards,
Sebastian.
web: linuxaudioblog.sternenhejim.de
10 Jan
10 Jan
2:40 p.m.
New subject: ArdourVST - Latency Management
On Thu, Jan 10, 2008 at 04:37:50PM +0100, Sebastian wrote:
Okay. I tried it on my music machine but found another
totally different
result. The latency of VST plugins gets compensated on tracks, but not
on busses.
I suspect Ardour is performing latency compensation 'the lazy
way', by just adding an offset to the sample indices used to
read a track that has processing latency, and make the transport
compensate for this, rather than by inserting _real_ delays in all
other processing paths.
This works, IFF the following assumptions are valid:
- all signals sources are tracks being played back,
- the signal from a track will not follow parallel paths,
- or if it does, all of them will have the same latency.
It's simple and will work in many, but not all cases.
The more general solution, considering what can happen if you
have parallel processing paths (pre and post fader sends, 'real'
groups, tracks split off to a separate strip for some reason,
etc.) can be very complex - maybe too complex to allow for a
reliable automatic compensation.
In that case I'd prefer _no_ compensation at all to a partial
or wrong one - it makes a finding manual solution easier.
--
FA
Laboratorio di Acustica ed Elettroacustica
Parma, Italia
Lascia la spina, cogli la rosa.
9 Jan
9 Jan
6:56 a.m.
New subject: ArdourVST - Latency Management
On Tue, Jan 08, 2008 at 06:33:35PM +0100, Sebastian Tschöpel wrote:
Am I doing something wrong?
Another question is why your plugins are producing
so much delay. The plugin mechanism by itself doesn't.
EQ certainly shouldn't, a reverb should pass the dry
sound without delay, and even a de-esser that looks
ahead should need only a a millisecond or two since
it's supposed to operate only on high frequencies.
--
FA
Laboratorio di Acustica ed Elettroacustica
Parma, Italia
Lascia la spina, cogli la rosa.
6163
days inactive
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linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
13 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
Arnold Krille -
Dave Phillips -
Fons Adriaensen -
Joern Nettingsmeier -
Paul Davis -
Sebastian -
Sebastian Tschöpel