27 Jun
2006
27 Jun
'06
10:20 a.m.
Greetings:
Not long ago I mentioned that a student had traded an MSI mobo (socket
939) for some lessons. I'm ready to start building a system around that
board, and I have some questions for this list:
1) I can get a new AMD64 Athlon 3800 2.4 GHz for (US) $145. Is the
Athlon 64 a good chip for audio work, and is that a good price ? It's
the best listed on Pricewatch.
2) Recommended case/power supply ?
3) The MSI box says it includes an nVidia nForce3 chipset, which I
assume means that there's an audio/video chipset on the mobo. I'll
probably disable the audio, and I have a gForce AGP video card to put in
the machine. Question: Am I better off using the integrated video or
should I use my card instead ? (Btw, I use the kernel nv driver, not
nVidia's binary driver).
4) I assume I'll have to buy new RAM. What should I buy ?
5) The CPU includes a fan, but should I get something more powerful ?
6) How can I best reduce the noise from this system ?
7) Am I correct to assume that this system runs in a 32-bit more as
well as the 64-bit ? How do I determine which mode I'll run in ?
This system will replace my ancient desktop machine, so also I need to
know if there are any precautions or warnings re: running Linux audio
software on it. The distro of choice will be Debian Etch a la Demudi 1.3.0.
Sorry for all the questions, I'm completely new to the 64-bit game. As
always, any & all advice will be vastly appreciated. :)
Best regards,
dp
27 Jun
27 Jun
10:53 a.m.
On Tue, 2006-06-27 at 08:30 -0400, Dave Phillips wrote:
Greetings:
Not long ago I mentioned that a student had traded an MSI mobo (socket
939) for some lessons. I'm ready to start building a system around that
board, and I have some questions for this list:
2) Recommended case/power supply ?
I"ve been eyeing an Antec case, with power supply. Never used it but I
heard good reports. www.antec.com
3) The MSI box says it includes an nVidia nForce3
chipset, which I
assume means that there's an audio/video chipset on the mobo. I'll
probably disable the audio, and I have a gForce AGP video card to put in
the machine. Question: Am I better off using the integrated video or
should I use my card instead ? (Btw, I use the kernel nv driver, not
nVidia's binary driver).
I vaguely remember there being issues with the onboard ethernet for
these chipsets - as in you have to install a driver that doesn't come as
part of the standard kernel source. But I could be completely wrong.
5) The CPU includes a fan, but should I get
something more powerful ?
Something quieter, probably. Zalman make some interesting fans for CPUs.
www.zalman.co.kr
6) How can I best reduce the noise from this system
?
Fans and hard drives are the noisiest components. So if you have quiet
PSU and CPU fans (and GPU if it's a powerful nvidia), the next step is
to get a hard drive enclosure. Or maybe go for a 2.5 inch laptop drive,
bearing in mind that the throughput is lower. Although I read recently
that laptop drives aren't as slow as they used to be and can be used
acceptably in a desktop system.
bye
John
11:15 a.m.
Hi,
John's post and mine crossed eachother, and they do not contradict :-)
Just one point:
John wrote:
Fans and hard drives are the noisiest components. So
if you have quiet
PSU and CPU fans (and GPU if it's a powerful nvidia), the next step is
to get a hard drive enclosure.
Note that the P150 case has a nice system for mounting the harddrives,
with rubber bands, which at least dampens some of the vibrations.
There is also quite some difference in noise level of harddrives, but
sadly even between harddrives of the same model (but different
revisions). The seagate barracuda IV's were known for being very quiet,
but later versions (due to a patent dispute with samsung i believe)
are noisier...
And I just remembered the name of the reverse engineered onboard ethernet
driver: forcedeth
Maarten
3:51 p.m.
On Tue, 2006-06-27 at 14:52 +0200, John Anderson wrote:
On Tue, 2006-06-27 at 08:30 -0400, Dave Phillips
wrote:
I've had mixed results with hard disk enclosures. One I tried muted the
spindle noise a bit but actually amplified the seek noise. It was better
to just leave the drive out of the box (I guess it depends on which
noise you find more annoying).
Re: cases/noise control, I used the Antec Sonata a couple of years ago,
if coupled with a no-fan power supply it becomes quite quiet (I tried
the Antec Phantom 350W). Zalman CPU coolers would be my choice if you
have to have fans. The best option is _no_ fans, Zalman's TNN500 (or
TNN300 for mini-itx mobos) is the choice if you have the money to spare.
It is incredible to have a cluster of 12 machines running full tilt - if
you can hear noise in the room it is probably a laptop somewhere :-)
-- Fernando
6) How can I best reduce the noise from this
system ?
Fans and hard drives are the noisiest components. So if you have quiet
PSU and CPU fans (and GPU if it's a powerful nvidia), the next step is
to get a hard drive enclosure. Or maybe go for a 2.5 inch laptop drive,
bearing in mind that the throughput is lower. Although I read recently
that laptop drives aren't as slow as they used to be and can be used
acceptably in a desktop system.
11:08 a.m.
Hi Dave,
What is the exact model of the mobo? Is it by any change the
MSI K8NGM2-FID ? There is very useful info in this forum
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=29&threadid=1803985
2) Recommended case/power supply ?
I recently helped a friend with a very similar setup (with above mobo).
He went for the Antec P150, which is a very nice quiet case, with a
quiet PSU, for a good price.
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article272-page1.html
The Antec P150 is the second recommended case of SPCR, but !!! note
the warning:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article75-page3.html
In my friends case, the PSU got replaced with a different model,
because of these issues (The store he bought the case was aware
of them). So, make sure that when you buy it, that the PSU is
a revised one, or that you can return it if it fails. A bit of
a hassle maybe, but the case is really really nice.
3) The MSI box says it includes an nVidia nForce3
chipset, which I
assume means that there's an audio/video chipset on the mobo. I'll
probably disable the audio, and I have a gForce AGP video card to put in
the machine. Question: Am I better off using the integrated video or
should I use my card instead ? (Btw, I use the kernel nv driver, not
nVidia's binary driver).
If you use the nv driver, I think you will not notice any difference
between the onboard and external video card.
4) I assume I'll have to buy new RAM. What
should I buy ?
See the anandtech forum.
5) The CPU includes a fan, but should I get
something more powerful ?
Something more silent, rather. Maybe a Zalman heatsink+fan?
6) How can I best reduce the noise from this system
?
See above. A good case with damping and good airflow, a silent PSU, a
silent CPU fan, and one large case fan (maybe 120 mm) at low speed. It
will not give you a perfectly silent system, but it won't be the
vacuumcleaner noise level you'd get without taking care of these
issues :-)
7) Am I correct to assume that this system runs in a
32-bit more as
well as the 64-bit ? How do I determine which mode I'll run in ?
You may run into some hassle running at 64 bit, 32 bit will work fine.
But since you are no newbie, you might want to go fo 64 bit.
This system will replace my ancient desktop machine,
so also I need to
know if there are any precautions or warnings re: running Linux audio
software on it. The distro of choice will be Debian Etch a la Demudi 1.3.0.
Hm, on the MSI based system of my friend, I didn't get the reverse engineered
driver for the nvidea onboard ethernet to work, so I installed the binary
driver from nvidea. Many people however do report the reverse engineered driver
to work, and better even than the nvidea binary, so YMMV. But if you are stuck
with the binary driver (for either video or ethernet), low latency might be
at risk.
Maarten
1:30 p.m.
On Tue, 2006-06-27 at 15:07 +0200, Maarten de Boer wrote:
Hm, on the MSI based system of my friend, I didn't
get the reverse
engineered driver for the nvidea onboard ethernet to work, so I
installed the binary driver from nvidea. Many people however do report
the reverse engineered driver to work, and better even than the nvidea
binary, so YMMV. But if you are stuck with the binary driver (for
either video or ethernet), low latency might be at risk.
Gack, that's awful. I've never heard of that - did you report it as a
bug?
From what I've heard the forcedeth driver should
work fine.
Lee
11:18 a.m.
Hi Dave
On 6/27/06, Dave Phillips <dlphillips(a)woh.rr.com> wrote:
Greetings:
Not long ago I mentioned that a student had traded an MSI mobo (socket
939) for some lessons. I'm ready to start building a system around that
board, and I have some questions for this list:
1) I can get a new AMD64 Athlon 3800 2.4 GHz for (US) $145. Is the
Athlon 64 a good chip for audio work, and is that a good price ? It's
the best listed on Pricewatch.
Yes. Im using an AMD64 Athlon 3000+. Works fine. You might want to
check in with Lee Revel or someone technically in tune with the kernel
developers about dual core chips. Mine is single core. There are still
(I think...) soome dual core issues but they are fewer now then
before.
2) Recommended case/power supply ?
Coolermaster case
I think I'm using an Antec 450W supply. It's pretty quiet. Look into
the Zalman power supplies if you can afford it.
3) The MSI box says it includes an nVidia nForce3 chipset, which I
assume means that there's an audio/video chipset on the mobo. I'll
probably disable the audio, and I have a gForce AGP video card to put in
the machine. Question: Am I better off using the integrated video or
should I use my card instead ? (Btw, I use the kernel nv driver, not
nVidia's binary driver).
Whatever you choose try for no fans...
4) I assume I'll have to buy new RAM. What should I buy ?
Crucial.com
5) The CPU includes a fan, but should I get something more powerful ?
More quiet - Zalman definiately.
6) How can I best reduce the noise from this system ?
Zalman fan, Zalman or other quiet power supplies, no fans on the
motherboard or video card, good disk drive.
7) Am I correct to assume that this system runs in a 32-bit more as
well as the 64-bit ? How do I determine which mode I'll run in ?
No - it will run either 32-bit or 64-bit. However Linux has 32-bit
emulation libraries to allow 32-bit binaries to run an a 64-bit
system. I run 64-bit but I think if I was to do it again I'd just go
32-bit. 64-bit systems have trouble with many 32-bit Windows media
types as win32codec built for 64-bit isn't completely compatible (or
just doesn't work) yet. Some of Java isn't as well supported on 64-bit
yet. Flash s OK. No clue whether any of that matters to you but it
does to me.
This system will replace my ancient desktop machine, so also I need to
know if there are any precautions or warnings re: running Linux audio
software on it. The distro of choice will be Debian Etch a la Demudi 1.3.0.
Gentoo for me. Cannot comment on distros much.
Sorry for all the questions, I'm completely new to the 64-bit game. As
always, any & all advice will be vastly appreciated. :)
We owe you so much you don't have to apologize for anything. Ask away.
We need to put the universe's karma bit more in balance.
Good luck,
Mark
Best regards,
dp
11:27 a.m.
On Tue, 27 Jun, 2006 at 06:17AM -0700, Mark Knecht spake thus:
Why not? Where's all the dogmatic, fiery, evangelistic rightiousness
that is the right of all Gentoo users?
Hi Dave
On 6/27/06, Dave Phillips <dlphillips(a)woh.rr.com> wrote:
I have absolutely no problems with 64bitness. I wouldn't go back and
if someone made a 65 bit processor, I'd happily give it a go.
That last bit was a joke, BTW.
Greetings:
Not long ago I mentioned that a student had traded an MSI mobo (socket
939) for some lessons. I'm ready to start building a system around that
board, and I have some questions for this list:
1) I can get a new AMD64 Athlon 3800 2.4 GHz for (US) $145. Is the
Athlon 64 a good chip for audio work, and is that a good price ? It's
the best listed on Pricewatch.
Yes. Im using an AMD64 Athlon 3000+. Works fine. You might want to
check in with Lee Revel or someone technically in tune with the kernel
developers about dual core chips. Mine is single core. There are still
(I think...) soome dual core issues but they are fewer now then
before.
2) Recommended case/power supply ?
Coolermaster case
I think I'm using an Antec 450W supply. It's pretty quiet. Look into
the Zalman power supplies if you can afford it.
3) The MSI box says it includes an nVidia nForce3 chipset, which I
assume means that there's an audio/video chipset on the mobo. I'll
probably disable the audio, and I have a gForce AGP video card to put in
the machine. Question: Am I better off using the integrated video or
should I use my card instead ? (Btw, I use the kernel nv driver, not
nVidia's binary driver).
Whatever you choose try for no fans...
4) I assume I'll have to buy new RAM. What should I buy ?
Crucial.com
5) The CPU includes a fan, but should I get something more powerful ?
More quiet - Zalman definiately.
6) How can I best reduce the noise from this system ?
Zalman fan, Zalman or other quiet power supplies, no fans on the
motherboard or video card, good disk drive.
7) Am I correct to assume that this system runs in a 32-bit more as
well as the 64-bit ? How do I determine which mode I'll run in ?
No - it will run either 32-bit or 64-bit. However Linux has 32-bit
emulation libraries to allow 32-bit binaries to run an a 64-bit
system. I run 64-bit but I think if I was to do it again I'd just go
32-bit. 64-bit systems have trouble with many 32-bit Windows media
types as win32codec built for 64-bit isn't completely compatible (or
just doesn't work) yet. Some of Java isn't as well supported on 64-bit
yet. Flash s OK. No clue whether any of that matters to you but it
does to me.
This system will replace my ancient desktop machine, so also I need to
know if there are any precautions or warnings re: running Linux audio
software on it. The distro of choice will be Debian Etch a la Demudi 1.3.0.
Gentoo for me. Cannot comment on distros much.
Sorry for all the questions, I'm completely new to the 64-bit game. As
always, any & all advice will be vastly appreciated. :)
We owe you so much you don't have to apologize for anything. Ask away.
We need to put the universe's karma bit more in balance.
Good luck,
Mark
Best regards,
dp
11:34 a.m.
Mark Knecht wrote:
Thanks for those notes, Mark. The Java and Flash stuff does matter to
me. Any comment on WINE and VST support ? Am I best advised then to
simply run in 32-bit mode most of the time ?
Btw, if I had to explain it to a very normal user, what benefits should
she expect from running a 64-bit system ? WRT Linux audio software, what
applications receive the greatest performance boosts ?
7) Am I
correct to assume that this system runs in a 32-bit more as
well as the 64-bit ? How do I determine which mode I'll run in ?
No - it will run either 32-bit or 64-bit. However Linux has 32-bit
emulation libraries to allow 32-bit binaries to run an a 64-bit
system. I run 64-bit but I think if I was to do it again I'd just go
32-bit. 64-bit systems have trouble with many 32-bit Windows media
types as win32codec built for 64-bit isn't completely compatible (or
just doesn't work) yet. Some of Java isn't as well supported on 64-bit
yet. Flash s OK. No clue whether any of that matters to you but it
does to me. We need to put the universe's karma bit more in
balance.
:)
Back to the balance...
Best,
dp
11:39 a.m.
On Tue, 2006-06-27 at 09:44 -0400, Dave Phillips wrote:
Thanks for those notes, Mark. The Java and Flash stuff
does matter to
me. Any comment on WINE and VST support ? Am I best advised then to
simply run in 32-bit mode most of the time ?
wine works on x86_64, but you can't load 32 bit plugins of any type into
a 64 bit host application (unless the plugin API doesn't use pointers
for anything and has all other type widths defined independently of the
CPU type).
so basically, yes, 32 bit all the way if you want to use
firefox/audio/other plugins.
Btw, if I had to explain it to a very normal user,
what benefits should
she expect from running a 64-bit system ? WRT Linux audio software, what
applications receive the greatest performance boosts ?
most 64 bit systems these days have better system busses and processors
that are better at the kind of floating point work most audio apps
require. thats really about it.
12:51 p.m.
On Tue, Jun 27, 2006 at 09:38:34AM -0400, Paul Davis wrote:
On Tue, 2006-06-27 at 09:44 -0400, Dave Phillips
wrote:
uuuugh, I didn't know about the wine issues (and thus presumably fst).
I don't have any vst plugins currently, but I might someday.
Is it enough to just compile the host app (e.g. ardour) for 32?
--
Paul Winkler
http://www.slinkp.com
Thanks for those notes, Mark. The Java and Flash
stuff does matter to
me. Any comment on WINE and VST support ? Am I best advised then to
simply run in 32-bit mode most of the time ?
wine works on x86_64, but you can't load 32 bit plugins of any type into
a 64 bit host application (unless the plugin API doesn't use pointers
for anything and has all other type widths defined independently of the
CPU type).
so basically, yes, 32 bit all the way if you want to use
firefox/audio/other plugins.
1:48 p.m.
On Tue, 2006-06-27 at 10:50 -0400, Paul Winkler wrote:
On Tue, Jun 27, 2006 at 09:38:34AM -0400, Paul Davis
wrote:
i wasn't clear enough. let me restate:
* wine works just fine
* you cannot load LADSPA, VST, or any other type of binary plugin that
was compiled for a 32 bit architecture into a 64 bit host.
the two issues are totally separate.
On Tue, 2006-06-27 at 09:44 -0400, Dave Phillips
wrote:
uuuugh, I didn't know about the wine issues (and thus presumably fst).
I don't have any vst plugins currently, but I might someday. Thanks for those notes, Mark. The Java and Flash
stuff does matter to
me. Any comment on WINE and VST support ? Am I best advised then to
simply run in 32-bit mode most of the time ?
wine works on x86_64, but you can't load 32 bit plugins of any type into
a 64 bit host application (unless the plugin API doesn't use pointers
for anything and has all other type widths defined independently of the
CPU type).
so basically, yes, 32 bit all the way if you want to use
firefox/audio/other plugins. Is it enough to just compile the host app (e.g.
ardour) for 32?
no idea. i run my dual opterons in 64 bit mode only, and build all apps
that way too.
2:07 p.m.
On 6/27/06, Paul Davis <paul(a)linuxaudiosystems.com> wrote:
<SNIP>
i wasn't clear enough. let me restate:
* wine works just fine
Agreed.
* you cannot load LADSPA, VST, or any other
type of binary plugin that
was compiled for a 32 bit architecture into a 64 bit host.
Agreed, but extending just a bit, most likely you can load 32-bit
binaries under a 32-bit chroot running on a 64-bit host. I don't
*think* there is a reason to completely avoid a 64-bit platform for
this reason but as I said earlier, if I was doing all over again with
the info I have today I think I would have gone 32-bit and had a much
easier time of it. The chroot is not fun to keep up to date and not
trivial to interface with when apps are running in the 64-bit
environment. (2 Jack servers, for instance...)
I was interested in Jack's response about more registers available to
the compiler when running 64-bit. Since Gentoo is 100% compiled that
might be a reason to lean toward 64-bit if you were going to go
Gentoo. (which I doubt in your case Dave...) With other binary distros
it would be less compelling. Are there numbers about to show the
benefits?
Cheers,
Mark
12:14 p.m.
On 6/27/06, Dave Phillips <dlphillips(a)woh.rr.com> wrote:
You're far too generous. Suck a little more your way more often! :) :) :)
Cheers,
Mark
Mark Knecht wrote:
Thanks for those notes, Mark. The Java and Flash stuff does matter to
me. Any comment on WINE and VST support ? Am I best advised then to
simply run in 32-bit mode most of the time ?
I'm not doing enough with Wine or VST's on Linux latey to comment. I
find the whole wine thing has gotten so complex and (frankly) flakey)
that it hasn't been worth my time. All my VST's have moved back to
windows where 'it just works'. ;-)
Jack/Ardour/Aqualung are very, very stable on 64-bit. No problems there.
Note that I have recently suffered a large number of ogg files on a
1394 ext3 drive getting corrupted. I have no idea why. I started
seeing this when running 2.6.16-rt25. I upgraded to 2.6.17-rt1 and
things got worse. I do not think it's a kernel issue. Possibly the
drive is just having trouble. one the less that's my Linux negative
for the last 14 days...
7) Am I
correct to assume that this system runs in a 32-bit more as
well as the 64-bit ? How do I determine which mode I'll run in ?
No - it will run either 32-bit or 64-bit. However Linux has 32-bit
emulation libraries to allow 32-bit binaries to run an a 64-bit
system. I run 64-bit but I think if I was to do it again I'd just go
32-bit. 64-bit systems have trouble with many 32-bit Windows media
types as win32codec built for 64-bit isn't completely compatible (or
just doesn't work) yet. Some of Java isn't as well supported on 64-bit
yet. Flash s OK. No clue whether any of that matters to you but it
does to me.
Btw, if I had to explain it to a very normal user, what benefits should
she expect from running a 64-bit system ? WRT Linux audio software, what
applications receive the greatest performance boosts ?
I do not think there is much extra value to running audio apps on
64-bit yet. I'd defer to Paul, Jess & Taybin for real numbers. All I
can say is that it works fin on 64-bit, for me, on this machine,
today. I have a 32-bit Gentoo chroot built up on this same machine,
incase I need to run 32-bit, but for Ardour that hasn't been
necessary.
I should have mentioned that before. Even though I run 64-bit Gentoo
provides a bunch of support for running a complete 32-bit chroot
inside of the 4-bit environment. All the 32-bit stuff (Java, Flash,
win32codecs, etc.) work fine in there. The down side is you have to
keep two Gentoo builds up to date, and keeping one Gentoo build up to
date is a bunch of work so it's not a gret solution for everyone. That
said, if you wanted to run 64-bit and ran into a real problem then it
is a working solution.
We need to put the universe's karma bit more
in balance.
:)
Back to the balance...
12:39 p.m.
Greetings:
Massive thanks for the assistance ! Of course, questions engender more
questions, so :
I can get an Antec P150 with 430W power supply for $150, that seems
a good price. Is the PS sufficient for the CPU (2.4 GHz) ?
Which Zalman CPU fan should I buy ?
I forgot to ask about HD recommendations. I have two aged 15 GB
drives I'd like to replace. 80 GB seems like a good start, but I haven't
bought a drive for a long time. Suggestions ?
Any specific recommendations concerning RAM ?
Best,
dp
12:58 p.m.
On 6/27/06, Dave Phillips <dlphillips(a)woh.rr.com> wrote:
Greetings:
Massive thanks for the assistance ! Of course, questions engender more
questions, so :
I can get an Antec P150 with 430W power supply for $150, that seems
a good price. Is the PS sufficient for the CPU (2.4 GHz) ?
Which Zalman CPU fan should I buy ?
Generically I use somethign like this one:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835118112
The pure copper ones are more expensive and probably not needed unless
you are really going to push the machine hard. I'm upgrading my wife's
machine to a Zalman copper as it does commercial flagging for MythTV
and works hard pretty much all day long. I don't think it's nevessary
for audio apps though.
I forgot to ask about HD recommendations. I have two aged 15 GB
drives I'd like to replace. 80 GB seems like a good start, but I haven't
bought a drive for a long time. Suggestions ?
160GB Serial ATA as a starting point, I'd guess. I assume this
machine's chipset has SATA support? Much better/faster/etc. More disk
space is good if you want to do anything with video or even ripped CD
collections. I am so out of disk space all the time and I have over a
terrabyte on the network now. Haw can that be? ;-)
Any specific recommendations concerning RAM ?
I cannot imagine better customer support than you will get from
Crucial. I had a machine go bad a while ago. My Crucial DRAM was over
2 years old. They replaced it over the phone, no questions asked, for
free. They really stand behind their products. Great company, good
prices.
My 2 cents,
Mark
12:58 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: AMD64 question
2006/6/27, Dave Phillips <dlphillips(a)woh.rr.com>om>:
I forgot to ask about HD recommendations. I have
two aged 15 GB
drives I'd like to replace. 80 GB seems like a good start, but I haven't
bought a drive for a long time. Suggestions ?
Well, the more, the better.
Any specific recommendations concerning RAM ?
Well, the more...
Honestly I had some experiences in the past which lead me to buying
Kingston-Memory even if it is slightly slower than the alternative
offer.
Arnold
--
visit http://dillenburg.dyndns.org/~arnold/
---
Wenn man mit Raubkopien Bands wie Brosis oder Britney Spears wirklich
verhindern könnte, würde ich mir noch heute einen Stapel Brenner und
einen Sack Rohlinge kaufen.
12:58 p.m.
On Tue, Jun 27, 2006 at 10:50:24AM -0400, Dave Phillips wrote:
Greetings:
Massive thanks for the assistance ! Of course, questions engender more
questions, so :
I can get an Antec P150 with 430W power supply for $150, that seems
a good price. Is the PS sufficient for the CPU (2.4 GHz) ?
Should be OK. I've been ok with the 380 watt antec supply that came with
my Sonata.
btw, antec sells B-stock directly for a LOT less than $150,
check their website if you don't mind cosmetic flaws.
I wish I had known that when I was shopping.
--
Paul Winkler
http://www.slinkp.com
1:45 p.m.
On Tue, 27 Jun, 2006 at 10:50AM -0400, Dave Phillips spake thus:
Greetings:
Massive thanks for the assistance ! Of course, questions engender more
questions, so :
I can get an Antec P150 with 430W power supply for $150, that seems
a good price. Is the PS sufficient for the CPU (2.4 GHz) ?
Which Zalman CPU fan should I buy ?
Try the fatl1ty I mentioned before, but check the mobo compatibility
list on the Zallman site.
Would give a URL but I'm sshing ATM.
I forgot to ask about HD recommendations. I have
two aged 15 GB
drives I'd like to replace. 80 GB seems like a good start, but I haven't
bought a drive for a long time. Suggestions ?
Any specific recommendations concerning RAM ?
Best,
dp
9:33 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: AMD64 question
On 6/28/06, Dave Phillips <dlphillips(a)woh.rr.com> wrote:
Greetings:
Massive thanks for the assistance ! Of course, questions engender more
questions, so :
I can get an Antec P150 with 430W power supply for $150, that seems
a good price. Is the PS sufficient for the CPU (2.4 GHz) ?
Which Zalman CPU fan should I buy ?
I forgot to ask about HD recommendations. I have two aged 15 GB
drives I'd like to replace. 80 GB seems like a good start, but I haven't
bought a drive for a long time. Suggestions ?
80gb! They still make drives that small? Buy a 300 gb for 15 dollars
more. ;) I got one a few weekends ago for 70 euro. 16 mb cache sata 2.
Loki
1:32 p.m.
Hallo,
Dave Phillips hat gesagt: // Dave Phillips wrote:
Btw, if I had to explain it to a very normal user,
what benefits should
she expect from running a 64-bit system ? WRT Linux audio software, what
applications receive the greatest performance boosts ?
Be aware that that Pd receives a huge performance *loss* in 64bit
mode: It won't work at all! This has some deep reasons in Pd's
architecture and data type system. But as Miller Puckette seems to
have access to a 64bit machine now, things might change.
Ciao
--
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
2:52 p.m.
On Tue, 2006-06-27 at 06:17 -0700, Mark Knecht wrote:
Hi Dave
On 6/27/06, Dave Phillips <dlphillips(a)woh.rr.com> wrote:
I finally have an AMD64 box so I can speak from experience ;-)
I think the broken timekeeping on dual core machines has been sorted out
in 2.6.17. As gettimeofday() has to use the ACPI PM timer due to buggy
TSCs, it is slower and less precise than it could be, but at least the
time does not jump backwards and forwards anymore. I'm hoping AMD will
fix this bug (and AMD has acknowledged that it is a bug) in future
generations of chips.
One side effect that is still unresolved is that the latency tracer does
not work as it uses rdtsc directly - the reported latencies creep
inexorably upward as the tracer switches between cores. I am working on
a solution, but it's a real pain.
I've been running rt-exec on this machine
(ftp://ftp.compro.net/public/rt-exec) to test it and the max reported
latency is about 400usecs. That's pretty high for an -rt kernel but
good enough for audio work. I can't tell which code path is responsible
until I get the latency tracer working.
Lee
Greetings:
Not long ago I mentioned that a student had traded an MSI mobo (socket
939) for some lessons. I'm ready to start building a system around that
board, and I have some questions for this list:
1) I can get a new AMD64 Athlon 3800 2.4 GHz for (US) $145. Is the
Athlon 64 a good chip for audio work, and is that a good price ? It's
the best listed on Pricewatch.
Yes. Im using an AMD64 Athlon 3000+. Works fine. You might want to
check in with Lee Revel or someone technically in tune with the kernel
developers about dual core chips. Mine is single core. There are still
(I think...) soome dual core issues but they are fewer now then
before.
11:21 a.m.
On Tue, 27 Jun, 2006 at 08:30AM -0400, Dave Phillips spake thus:
Greetings:
Not long ago I mentioned that a student had traded an MSI mobo (socket
939) for some lessons. I'm ready to start building a system around that
board, and I have some questions for this list:
1) I can get a new AMD64 Athlon 3800 2.4 GHz for (US) $145. Is the
Athlon 64 a good chip for audio work, and is that a good price ? It's
the best listed on Pricewatch.
It's all good here! I'm running the 3700 (2.2GHz) san diego and
loving it. I moved from a 3.06GHz p4 when it fried and although I've
lost ~0.8GHz, the speedup is fantastic.
Other things probably help, too. The last machine was store bought,
so not much else in it was high spec. This time I have 1GB of RAM as
two paired units running in that new dual mode doodah, SATA HD with
16MB cache and the processor has 1MB of L2 cache.
I paid 115 sterling, so $145 seems like a good price. Check the other
stuff, like the sandiego business, though.
2) Recommended case/power supply ?
Whatever you like. Quiet power supplies are cheap now. I also have
the Zalman FS-C77 processor cooler (Fatal1ty, I think) which is really
nice and keeps the processor cool at low speeds, if the mobo can
adjust the speed based on temperature. It's running at 1.7krpms quite
quietly at the moment, but can go slower than that even. And a hell
of a lot faster.
3) The MSI box says it includes an nVidia nForce3
chipset, which I
assume means that there's an audio/video chipset on the mobo. I'll
probably disable the audio, and I have a gForce AGP video card to put in
the machine. Question: Am I better off using the integrated video or
should I use my card instead ? (Btw, I use the kernel nv driver, not
nVidia's binary driver).
Use the better of the two. I'm guessing this will be the card, but
check the specs. Xorg will be able to use it to reduce the processor
load for X stuff.
But why use the nv rather than nvidia module? If you don't like a
tainted kernel, then that's fine. If that's not the problem... why
not?
4) I assume I'll have to buy new RAM. What should
I buy ?
Try the corsair matched pairs if your mobo can do dual channel voodoo.
5) The CPU includes a fan, but should I get something
more powerful ?
Yes.
6) How can I best reduce the noise from this system ?
Simplest solution: quiet power supply, big finned heatsink/fan combo
(see above) or heat pipe wotsit (didn't have the nerve to try that
myself), quiet HD cooling enclosure (extra fans, but can actually
quieten your HD).
If that's not quiet enough, you can get special sound dampening
padding for inside the case or a special cabinet with a door and lots
of foam.
7) Am I correct to assume that this system runs in a
32-bit more as
well as the 64-bit ? How do I determine which mode I'll run in ?
It just does it. Don't worry about it :) The only thing I even
noticed any oddness with was the codecs for mplayer et al. Even then,
it was just WMV (eugh!) that wouldn't work, so I also installed an x86
binary of mplayer, which worked fine.
This system will replace my ancient desktop machine,
so also I need to
know if there are any precautions or warnings re: running Linux audio
software on it. The distro of choice will be Debian Etch a la Demudi 1.3.0.
I know distro choice is a personal religious matter, but...
Use Gentoo! It's a fact that it's WAY better than all other distros
(1). Plus you get all the benefit of sse3/amd64 goodness. I used to
use Redhat, then switched to Debian. I used Debian for a long time,
but got annoyed by the way it would break if I monkeyed with it too
much. Gentoo lets me tinker as much as I want and fixing my cock-ups
is just a matter of emerging a few packages.
Have fun!
James
(1) Not actual fact, but rabid opinion.
Sorry for all the questions, I'm completely new to
the 64-bit game. As
always, any & all advice will be vastly appreciated. :)
Best regards,
dp
11:48 a.m.
james(a)dis-dot-dat.net wrote:
I'm glad you asked. As a matter of personal (moral/ethical/philosophic)
preference, I'd rather use the open-source solution than the locked-up
binary *unless* I have a compelling reason to do otherwise. In past I've
used nVidia's driver for exactly two purposes: Quake and Pd. :) Well, I
can't play Quake worth a damn anyway, and my experiments with GEM and Pd
were just experiments. I'm not currently working with Pd or anything
else that wants accelerated 3D, so I'm working with the kernel driver.
It's also a shame that 3D support under Linux should be so woeful. IIUC
it's worse than the audio hardware situation.
That's all cool. I like easy. :)
Best,
dp
3) The MSI box
says it includes an nVidia nForce3 chipset, which I
assume means that there's an audio/video chipset on the mobo. I'll
probably disable the audio, and I have a gForce AGP video card to put in
the machine. Question: Am I better off using the integrated video or
should I use my card instead ? (Btw, I use the kernel nv driver, not
nVidia's binary driver).
Use the better of the two. I'm guessing this will be the card, but
check the specs. Xorg will be able to use it to reduce the processor
load for X stuff.
But why use the nv rather than nvidia module? If you don't like a
tainted kernel, then that's fine. If that's not the problem... why not?
7) Am I
correct to assume that this system runs in a 32-bit more as
well as the 64-bit ? How do I determine which mode I'll run in ?
It just does it. Don't worry about it :) The only thing I even
noticed any oddness with was the codecs for mplayer et al. Even then,
it was just WMV (eugh!) that wouldn't work, so I also installed an x86
binary of mplayer, which worked fine.
1:34 p.m.
On Tue, 2006-06-27 at 14:21 +0100, james(a)dis-dot-dat.net wrote:
But why use the nv rather than nvidia module? If you
don't like a
tainted kernel, then that's fine. If that's not the problem... why
not?
Because the system can't be debugged if anything goes wrong?
If you don't mind being at the mercy of Nvidia for all support, then
feel free.
Lee
1:49 p.m.
On Tue, 27 Jun, 2006 at 11:34AM -0400, Lee Revell spake thus:
On Tue, 2006-06-27 at 14:21 +0100,
james(a)dis-dot-dat.net wrote:
Furry nuff. I've never had a problem, to be honest.
Damnit. The sod's law faeries probably heard me say that.
But why use the nv rather than nvidia module? If
you don't like a
tainted kernel, then that's fine. If that's not the problem... why
not?
Because the system can't be debugged if anything goes wrong?
If you don't mind being at the mercy of Nvidia for all support, then
feel free. Lee
3:29 p.m.
Simplest solution: quiet power supply, big finned
heatsink/fan combo
(see above) or heat pipe wotsit (didn't have the nerve to try that
myself), quiet HD cooling enclosure (extra fans, but can actually
quieten your HD).
if you dont want a big ugly case and a half dozen tweaker mods to install, you could check
out a Shuttle. it just has a gigantic headsink/heatpipe/fan/heatgrille combo. all you do
is wipe some thermal grease on top of the CPU and screw it on. the fan is so big that it
spins slow and you dont really hear it. mine never come out of low anyways.
best to get a HD that doesnt make any noise in the first place. like a Samsung..
although you may not care, SC, Chuck and SuperCollider don't work on 64bit OS's.
certainly that should be a bigger concern (to people on this list) than qdxproprietary
whatsit browser codecs..
3:36 p.m.
although you may not care, SC, Chuck and SuperCollider
don't work on 64bit OS's.
woops, actualy meant Chuck, PD, and SCLang. the SC synthesis engine works on 64bit. but
the language doesnt, i'm not sure if you can get around this by using the haskell
version of sclang or not. and Chuck worked once, but the second time i tried it , it
segfaulted like crazy.. but since its newer i think it proably had 64bit in mind from the
start..
as for RAM, PQi or A-Data. as for Distro, Gentoo + ProAudioOverlay
4 p.m.
On Tue Jun 27, 2006 at 01:41:52PM -0400, Lee Revell wrote:
On Tue, 2006-06-27 at 17:36 +0000, carmen wrote:
probably. each of the above are real-time 'virtual machines', which might make it
more complex, as the change affects everything in the system? even Macromedia has said the
64bit version of Flash 8.5 will arrive at some unspecified later date than the 32bit
version, for example...with excuses related to 32bit assumptions in the JIT
Flash-compiling virtual-machine.
not that it held back JAVA in any way..all the major JDKs were available for amd64 long
before i switched to it..
woops, actualy meant Chuck, PD, and SCLang.
Shouldn't this be trivial to fix if the code is sanely written?
4:09 p.m.
On Tue, 2006-06-27 at 18:00 +0000, carmen wrote:
On Tue Jun 27, 2006 at 01:41:52PM -0400, Lee Revell
wrote:
Screw 64 bit flash, I'd be happy with a 32 bit version that can play
Youtube and Google video with the audio and video in sync. I feel like
I'm missing out on half the internet - f**king Flash has become the de
facto standard for web video and it does not work at all on Linux.
Lee
On Tue, 2006-06-27 at 17:36 +0000, carmen wrote:
probably. each of the above are real-time 'virtual machines', which might make it
more complex, as the change affects everything in the system? even Macromedia has said the
64bit version of Flash 8.5 will arrive at some unspecified later date than the 32bit
version, for example...with excuses related to 32bit assumptions in the JIT
Flash-compiling virtual-machine.
woops, actualy meant Chuck, PD, and SCLang.
Shouldn't this be trivial to fix if the code is sanely written? not that it held back JAVA in any way..all the major
JDKs were available for amd64 long before i switched to it..
28 Jun
28 Jun
10:40 a.m.
On Tuesday 27 June 2006 19:08, Lee Revell was like:
Screw 64 bit flash, I'd be happy with a 32 bit
version that can play
Youtube and Google video with the audio and video in sync. I feel like
I'm missing out on half the internet - f**king Flash has become the de
facto standard for web video and it does not work at all on Linux.
Aye
--
cheers,
tim hall
http://glastonburymusic.org.uk/tim
We are the people We've been waiting for.
3 Jul
3 Jul
10:50 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] AMD64 question: update
Greetings:
First, I want to thank again everyone who suggested parts and
suppliers. I scored a great buy on a B-stock Sonata II Antec case with
450W power supply (thanks to Paul W for that tip), and I've ordered my
RAM through Crucial (thanks to Mark K and James S for the advice). I
haven't yet decided what HD to buy, I see good prices on 320G drives,
but I'm tempted to stay with my usual plan and install two drives, maybe
two 160G drives. I'm especially interested in finding out if there are
particular brands to avoid, and of course I'd like to know the
recommended brands.
The AMD64 3800 is still holding at ~$145, I'll probably order it
today. Btw, the model is named Venice, it's a 2.4 GHz single-core socket
939 CPU, and I assume it's good for my purposes. Please advise if I have
other options to explore.
I'll also order the Zalman CPU fan recommended by Mark K.
I'm really looking forward to putting this machine together. I've been
running my antique 800 MHz boat-anchor for so long, I can't imagine what
the difference will be like. Very exciting upgrade for Studio Dave. :)
Best,
dp
11:06 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] AMD64 question: update
On Mon, 03 Jul, 2006 at 09:02AM -0400, Dave Phillips spake thus:
Greetings:
First, I want to thank again everyone who suggested parts and
suppliers. I scored a great buy on a B-stock Sonata II Antec case with
450W power supply (thanks to Paul W for that tip), and I've ordered my
RAM through Crucial (thanks to Mark K and James S for the advice). I
haven't yet decided what HD to buy, I see good prices on 320G drives,
but I'm tempted to stay with my usual plan and install two drives, maybe
two 160G drives. I'm especially interested in finding out if there are
particular brands to avoid, and of course I'd like to know the
recommended brands.
The AMD64 3800 is still holding at ~$145, I'll probably order it
today. Btw, the model is named Venice, it's a 2.4 GHz single-core socket
939 CPU, and I assume it's good for my purposes. Please advise if I have
other options to explore.
I'll also order the Zalman CPU fan recommended by Mark K.
If this is like mine, make sure to check mobo compatibility!
I'm really looking forward to putting this
machine together. I've been
running my antique 800 MHz boat-anchor for so long, I can't imagine what
the difference will be like. Very exciting upgrade for Studio Dave. :)
I wish I was upgrading again now. I'ts very pleasing, doing something physical.
Best,
dp
12:17 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] AMD64 question: update
On 7/3/06, Dave Phillips <dlphillips(a)woh.rr.com> wrote:
<SNIP>
I
haven't yet decided what HD to buy, I see good prices on 320G drives,
but I'm tempted to stay with my usual plan and install two drives, maybe
two 160G drives. I'm especially interested in finding out if there are
particular brands to avoid, and of course I'd like to know the
recommended brands.
<SNIP>
While I nominally do not like the idea of two drives as it most
certainly will cause more noise, one nice longer term option you can
look toward is that if you put two drives in today, using one as a
system drive and the second as an audio drive, should you get
interested later you can take the audio drive, place it in a 1394
drive enclosure and move the drive external to the box. Once you do
this you can use your Ardour sessions on other machines as well as
install the laptop toolset and spin down the system drive completely
for less noise.
Good luck with however you go.
- Mark
5 Jul
5 Jul
1:32 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] AMD64 question: update
On Mon, Jul 03, 2006 at 07:17:14AM -0700, Mark Knecht wrote:
(snip)
install the laptop toolset and spin down the system
drive completely
for less noise.
For other curious readers:
I wasn't familiar with "the laptop toolset", but a bit
of searching turned up this:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~bsamwel/laptop_mode/tools/
Looks useful.
--
Paul Winkler
http://www.slinkp.com
1:58 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] AMD64 question: update
On Wed, Jul 05, 2006 at 11:32:34AM -0400, Paul Winkler wrote:
On Mon, Jul 03, 2006 at 07:17:14AM -0700, Mark Knecht
wrote:
(snip)
... but potentially dangerous if you don't read the FAQ:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~bsamwel/laptop_mode/tools/faq.html
--
Paul Winkler
http://www.slinkp.com
install the laptop toolset and spin down the
system drive completely
for less noise.
For other curious readers:
I wasn't familiar with "the laptop toolset", but a bit
of searching turned up this:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~bsamwel/laptop_mode/tools/
Looks useful. 
3 Jul
3 Jul
3:33 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] AMD64 question: update
I haven't yet decided what HD to buy, I see good
prices on 320G drives, but I'm tempted to stay with my usual plan and install two
drives, maybe two 160G drives. I'm especially interested in finding out if there are
particular brands to avoid, and of course I'd like to know the recommended brands.
For HDs there are two I would reccomend. The first being Seagate, and
they probably have the upper hand at the moment with thier newer drives
and the price per storage(750 GB for 450 dollars aint bad;)
The other I would reccomend is Hitachi.
Those are the two brands I use in all of my machines on any regular
basis. Once in a while I might get Maxtor or someone like that if I am
just backing stuff onto it, pulling it out and not touching it again;)
Seablade
3:57 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] AMD64 question: update
On 7/3/06, Thomas Vecchione <seablaede(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Just goes to show......the only two drives I've had bring-up problems
with in the last couple of years were a Hitachi I got from Fry's and a
bunch of low-end Seagate drives I got from New Egg. I do have some
80GB Seagates in each of the 3 MythTV frontend only machines here and
they are workign fine so far...
I'm currently running Maxtors and IBMs in my studio machines which
until recently were running very well. I am just now starting to have
trouble with an older Maxtor since upgrading to 2.6.17-rt1. This drive
is in an external 1394 case and holds my ripped CD collection. Just in
the last few weeks I've lost a number of songs. No big deal as I can
rerip them but the drive is ext3 and the journal
didn't/isn't/hasn't/won't do anything to fix the problems. The songs
are just messed up according to fsck. Bummer.
I haven't
yet decided what HD to buy, I see good prices on 320G drives, but I'm tempted to stay
with my usual plan and install two drives, maybe two 160G drives. I'm especially
interested in finding out if there are particular brands to avoid, and of course I'd
like to know the recommended brands.
For HDs there are two I would reccomend. The first being Seagate, and
they probably have the upper hand at the moment with thier newer drives
and the price per storage(750 GB for 450 dollars aint bad;)
The other I would reccomend is Hitachi.
Those are the two brands I use in all of my machines on any regular
basis. Once in a while I might get Maxtor or someone like that if I am
just backing stuff onto it, pulling it out and not touching it again;)
Seablade
Strange how the picture can look so different to individuals. Glad
they worked well for you!
Cheers,
Mark
6:56 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] AMD64 question: update
Strange how the picture can look so different to individuals. Glad
they worked well for you!
Indeed it is;)
I tend to stick with Seagate not only because I havent had problems with
reliability, but also for noise reasons as well. But then again as we
have already established YMMV;)
Ah well to each their own.
Seablade
7:07 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] AMD64 question: update
On Mon Jul 03, 2006 at 03:01:28PM -0700, Thomas Vecchione wrote:
i tend to stick with Samsung. none of them have failed. but then none are older than 2 or
3 years either. seagates are my second choice, but theyre hotter, louder, and more
expensive..
Strange how the
picture can look so different to individuals. Glad
they worked well for you!
Indeed it is;)
I tend to stick with Seagate 
8:26 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] AMD64 question: update
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Thomas Vecchione escribió:
I've heard of people having trouble with their Western Digital drives,
but I have had none, I've also extensively used Seagate, Maxtor and
Western Digital drives, all just fine. At the
price/storage/performance ratio of these drives, I would have to say
that Western Digital drives take an edge over the others (for
ATA-1x0), for S-ATA, I've no much experience with them... I have one
Seagate 120Gb S-ATA 150 drive working just fine.
- From other computers I've used, seems like Samsung drives are bit
slower than Seagates and Maxtors, and the fastest drives I've used had
been ATA-133 Maxtors (even beating S-ATA 150 Seagate drives), however
the one I own is ATA-100, so I can't comment much on that... Sadly
down here in Mexico the prices are a bit steep and I usually buy
Western Digital due to storage/performance/price ratio.
I haven't
yet decided what HD to buy, I see good prices on 320G
drives, but I'm tempted to stay with my usual plan and install
two drives, maybe two 160G drives. I'm especially interested in
finding out if there are particular brands to avoid, and of
course I'd like to know the recommended brands.
For HDs there are two I would reccomend. The first being Seagate,
and they probably have the upper hand at the moment with thier
newer drives and the price per storage(750 GB for 450 dollars aint
bad;) The other I would reccomend is Hitachi.
Those are the two brands I use in all of my machines on any regular
basis. Once in a while I might get Maxtor or someone like that if
I am just backing stuff onto it, pulling it out and not touching it
again;)
Seablade
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.4 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
iD8DBQFEqZm0XM+XOp70dwoRAuw+AKCNXmqJaTFNmwygkqsB6k1sapF53QCeKwvA
6E08w4JqWU/JPJ4pJ4j4aF0=
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10:23 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] AMD64 question: update
I've heard of people having trouble with their
Western Digital drives,
but I have had none, I've also extensively used Seagate, Maxtor and
Western Digital drives, all just fine.
ive had 2 western digital drives. one was somehow fried by the controller. the other
sounded like a jet engine taking off. ive had one maxtor, it died. ive heard more stories
of maxtors failing than any other, but thats just because the kind of people who use them
buy them beacuse theyre cheap, then put them in use on a heavy-traffic ftp site or
something. its probably a cost-effective way to go if you use a RAID or build in
redundancy via nightly rsync \ darcs synch
ive never had a quantum die. everyone i have still runs, including a 40 mb, and a 1 gb,
and a 4 gb. one of them is from 1992. but theyre all SCSI, so i dont ahve much use for
them now that i gave away my Macs.
11:07 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] AMD64 question: update
On 7/3/06, carmen <_(a)whats-your.name> wrote:
We all have anecdotes about good and bad disks we have known.
My impression is that all the manufacturers have trouble with various
new technology at various times. I've heard good and bad stories
about them all from time to time through the years.
--
joq
I've heard
of people having trouble with their Western Digital drives,
but I have had none, I've also extensively used Seagate, Maxtor and
Western Digital drives, all just fine.
ive had 2 western digital drives. one was somehow fried by the controller. the other
sounded like a jet engine taking off. ive had one maxtor, it died. ive heard more stories
of maxtors failing than any other, but thats just because the kind of people who use them
buy them beacuse theyre cheap, then put them in use on a heavy-traffic ftp site or
something. its probably a cost-effective way to go if you use a RAID or build in
redundancy via nightly rsync \ darcs synch
ive never had a quantum die. everyone i have still runs, including a 40 mb, and a 1 gb,
and a 4 gb. one of them is from 1992. but theyre all SCSI, so i dont ahve much use for
them now that i gave away my Macs.
5 Jul
5 Jul
1:43 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] AMD64 question: update
On Mon, Jul 03, 2006 at 08:07:45PM -0500, Jack O'Quin wrote:
We all have anecdotes about good and bad disks we have
known.
My impression is that all the manufacturers have trouble with various
new technology at various times. I've heard good and bad stories
about them all from time to time through the years.
Yep.
I've had cheapo drives work without problem until I upgraded and
threw them out. I've had a carefully researched drive purchase
completely die without warning after 2 years of light use.
Since then, I try to assume that any drive by any manufacturer
can die at any time. MAKE BACKUPS.
--
Paul Winkler
http://www.slinkp.com
6 Jul
6 Jul
9:43 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] AMD64 question: update
Paul Winkler wrote:
On Mon, Jul 03, 2006 at 08:07:45PM -0500, Jack
O'Quin wrote:
It should also be noted that a lot of hard disk failures are due to
mains power loss.
Modern harddisks use a lot of write caching on the controller to achieve
decent performance. So when power goes down when there is data in the
write cache, it is lost. The file system however 'thinks' that data has
been written correctly. This hence results in file system corruption.
But there is also the issue of interruption of the actual physical write
operation when power goes down. If a drive is writing a sector when the
power goes down, it won't be able to update the CRC data for the sector,
hence the next time the sector is read, the CRC check fails and the
drive marks the sector as 'bad'. The sector is however not mechanically
broken. When doing a low level format of the drive that also tries to
re-initialize the bad sectors, the drive will be repaired to an 'as new'
state.
Another important note that this is *not* solved with RAID mirroring. In
fact, RAID mirroring will make things worse, as you now have two
independent write caches and head locations.
One solution to this is to disable write caching on the drive, and live
with the consequences, mainly a very big performance hit.
My personal solution is a UPS. Most of the power outages for me are due
to some circuit overload, so the 15 minutes of battery power are enough
to survive the re-enabling of the circuit. And if not it shuts down
cleanly.
My experience is that *every time* your system has a power failure, you
have some file system and hard disk corruption. I would certainly
recommend everybody to use one, a UPS is a better investment than a
second disk for software RAID mirroring. And it is pretty cheap (about
100€ here).
An unrelated remark with respect to hard disk configuration:
I personally think that using a hardware RAID5 controller (e.g. a 3ware
escalade), together with a bunch of less-performing but more
silent/reliable drives will give you the best solution.
I think something like a RAID-5 of 4x 100Gb 5400RPM disks will give you
a system that is fast, reliable, and high capacity (300Gb). A shame that
5400RPM drives are so hard to get...
I've tried a lot of setups and a lot of harddisks, all resulting in
failures due to power outages. Since I switched over to a 3ware escalade
RAID5 setup (3x160GB maxtor) and a UPS, I haven't had any problems. I
can only recommend it. Of course it is not the quietest of setups, but
it's not that bad... my laptop is noisier.
Greets,
Pieter
We all have anecdotes about good and bad disks we
have known.
My impression is that all the manufacturers have trouble with various
new technology at various times. I've heard good and bad stories
about them all from time to time through the years.
Yep.
I've had cheapo drives work without problem until I upgraded and
threw them out. I've had a carefully researched drive purchase
completely die without warning after 2 years of light use.
Since then, I try to assume that any drive by any manufacturer
can die at any time. MAKE BACKUPS.
11:20 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] AMD64 question: update
On Thu, Jul 06, 2006 at 01:43:40PM +0200, Pieter Palmers wrote:
Modern harddisks use a lot of write caching on the
controller to achieve
decent performance. So when power goes down when there is data in the
write cache, it is lost. The file system however 'thinks' that data has
been written correctly. This hence results in file system corruption.
FS corruption is no fun (I once spent two days recovering data
after bad RAM corrupted an ext2 fs... I ended up with every file I had
in lost+found). But the particular failure I mentioned was drive
hardware, no doubt about it. Lots of low-level IDE errors in
/var/log/messages. Couldn't fsck it, couldn't get any raw
data out of it with "dd if=/dev/hdb", nothing.
I didn't have any warning, either... no funny noises, no
problems or errors the last time I mounted it. *shrug*
+1 on the UPS idea, I've had one for years.
-PW
--
Paul Winkler
http://www.slinkp.com
12:05 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] AMD64 question: update
Paul Winkler wrote:
On Thu, Jul 06, 2006 at 01:43:40PM +0200, Pieter
Palmers wrote:
Of course I'm not suggesting that there are no hardware failures, and
I'm really not questioning your judgment.
Just sharing my personal experience (own hardware and that of others),
which is that once you prune out the hard disk failures caused by power
outage, there are not much left. And in (almost) all of the power outage
caused failures you can re-use the hard disk perfectly after a low level
format. And that is not due to bad sector relocation, but simply because
the CRC errors are cleared.
Problems caused by the interruption of a write operation by the disk are
not distinguishable from 'real' hardware failures by the OS. The hard
disk's firmware treats the sector where this interruption occurred as a
bad sector, and reports it like that to the OS. So you also get a lot of
messages in /var/log/messages. This phenomenon occurs on the harddisk
itself, past the operating system, filesystem and ide controller.
However, you should be able to get some raw data out of it using dd (or
ddrescue), as not all sectors are marked as 'bad'. That makes it
slightly less bad as a total hard disk crash.
Pieter
PS: another tip: The sysadmins at work once told me that their
experience is that harddisks tend to fail when they are shut down. What
they dread the most is having to power down a server, even cleanly.
Modern harddisks use a lot of write caching on
the controller to achieve
decent performance. So when power goes down when there is data in the
write cache, it is lost. The file system however 'thinks' that data has
been written correctly. This hence results in file system corruption.
FS corruption is no fun (I once spent two days recovering data
after bad RAM corrupted an ext2 fs... I ended up with every file I had
in lost+found). But the particular failure I mentioned was drive
hardware, no doubt about it. Lots of low-level IDE errors in
/var/log/messages. Couldn't fsck it, couldn't get any raw
data out of it with "dd if=/dev/hdb", nothing.
I didn't have any warning, either... no funny noises, no
problems or errors the last time I mounted it. *shrug*
4 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] AMD64 question: update
On 7/6/06, Pieter Palmers <pieterp(a)joow.be> wrote:
Paul Winkler wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 06, 2006 at 01:43:40PM +0200, Pieter Palmers wrote:
>> Modern harddisks use a lot of write caching on the controller to achieve
>> decent performance. So when power goes down when there is data in the
>> write cache, it is lost. The file system however 'thinks' that data has
>> been written correctly. This hence results in file system corruption.
Thanks much for this whole thread. It's added substance to what I
previously thought was just personal paranoia and suspicion.
I've been under the impression it's cheaper to buy used UPS's and buy
replacement batteries for them. Has anyone done this to good results?
--
daneasley(a)gmail.com
dan(a)towndowner.com dan(a)burntpossum.com
http://towndowner.com http://burntpossum.com
5:12 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] AMD64 question: update
Le 06 Jul à 14:00, Dan Easley ecrivait:
I've been under the impression it's cheaper to
buy used UPS's and buy
replacement batteries for them. Has anyone done this to good results?
Take care of pentential electrical issues with such devices. The
last one I used permitted me to fry eggs on it after half an hour of usage
:), with a very particular and not very nice smell in the office. More
seriously, if I haven't unplugged it, I'm sure it would have caused a
fire. It was more than 5 years old.
Also, the standard life duration of UPS batteries is three
years. They of course can be changed if you are sure of the device...
On the other hand, the only UPSes which will normally work with
linux are serial ones, be careful with USB models. The standard software
for UPS monitoring, also for more than one computer across the
network, is nut : http://www.networkupstools.org/
HTH,
Y.
7:16 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] AMD64 question: update
On Thu, 6 Jul 2006 21:12:45 +0200
yves_p(a)nnx.com (Yves Potin) wrote:
Le 06 Jul à 14:00, Dan Easley ecrivait:
I would add to that, be absolutely *obsessively* careful changing these
high capacity batteries. An accidental short circuit on even an
apparently 'dead' battery can often melt a spanner... before
exploding :(
--
Will J G
I've been under the impression it's
cheaper to buy used UPS's and buy
replacement batteries for them. Has anyone done this to good results?
Take care of pentential electrical issues with such devices. The
last one I used permitted me to fry eggs on it after half an hour of usage
:), with a very particular and not very nice smell in the office. More
seriously, if I haven't unplugged it, I'm sure it would have caused a
fire. It was more than 5 years old.
Also, the standard life duration of UPS batteries is three
years. They of course can be changed if you are sure of the device...
On the other hand, the only UPSes which will normally work with
linux are serial ones, be careful with USB models. The standard software
for UPS monitoring, also for more than one computer across the
network, is nut : http://www.networkupstools.org/
HTH,
6:18 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] AMD64 question: update
On Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 02:00:05PM -0400, Dan Easley wrote:
On 7/6/06, Pieter Palmers <pieterp(a)joow.be>
wrote:
im guessing 2 drives , synched nightly via rsync, or in a RAID configuration, is cheaper,
and friendlier for the environment than huge/heavy UPS batteries. i guess i'd invest
in that if the electricity infrastructure in my area was particularly bad. or in
combination with daytime solar replenishing to run completely off-grid.
soudns like overkill as a hedge against drive failure though. drives will fail.
Paul Winkler wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 06, 2006 at 01:43:40PM +0200, Pieter Palmers wrote:
>> Modern harddisks use a lot of write caching on the controller to achieve
>> decent performance. So when power goes down when there is data in the
>> write cache, it is lost. The file system however 'thinks' that data has
>> been written correctly. This hence results in file system corruption.
Thanks much for this whole thread. It's added substance to what I
previously thought was just personal paranoia and suspicion.
I've been under the impression it's cheaper to buy used UPS's and buy
replacement batteries for them. Has anyone done this to good results?
6:33 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] AMD64 question: update
carmen wrote:
On Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 02:00:05PM -0400, Dan Easley
wrote:
The RAID does *not* help against power failures. been there, done that.
rsync will do, but then you have to make sure that the outage does not
occur when running rsync. Anyway it lowers the chance that you'll have
problems.
On 7/6/06, Pieter Palmers <pieterp(a)joow.be>
wrote:
im guessing 2 drives , synched nightly via rsync, or in a RAID configuration, is cheaper,
and friendlier for the environment than huge/heavy UPS batteries. i guess i'd invest
in that if the electricity infrastructure in my area was particularly bad. or in
combination with daytime solar replenishing to run completely off-grid.
Paul Winkler wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 06, 2006 at 01:43:40PM +0200, Pieter Palmers wrote:
>> Modern harddisks use a lot of write caching on the controller to achieve
>> decent performance. So when power goes down when there is data in the
>> write cache, it is lost. The file system however 'thinks' that data has
>> been written correctly. This hence results in file system corruption.
Thanks much for this whole thread. It's added substance to what I
previously thought was just personal paranoia and suspicion.
I've been under the impression it's cheaper to buy used UPS's and buy
replacement batteries for them. Has anyone done this to good results? soudns like overkill as a hedge against drive failure
though. drives will fail.
UPS'es don't prevent mechanical drive failure, but they do prevent
'soft' bad sectors. My belief is that these are the most common.
I wouldn't think a 100€ UPS is more overkill than an extra 160G drive
(costing about the same) for RAID/rsync mirroring.
I've made up my mind about this: 'this UPS is to stay', but feel free
not to agree of course ;)
Pieter
9:07 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: AMD64 question: update
On 7/7/06, Pieter Palmers <pieterp(a)joow.be> wrote:
carmen wrote:
im guessing 2 drives , synched nightly via rsync, or in a RAID configuration, is
cheaper, and friendlier for the environment than
huge/heavy UPS batteries. i guess i'd invest in that if the electricity
infrastructure in my area was particularly bad. or in combination with
daytime solar replenishing to run completely off-grid.
The RAID does *not* help against power
failures. been there, done that.
rsync will do, but then you have to make sure that the outage does not
occur when running rsync. Anyway it lowers the chance that you'll have
problems.
100 euro! for 160G ouch! my 300 gb 16 mb cache sata2 drive was much
less than that! I don't really have anything that vitial that loosing
it would really suck... guess if i ever make some decent recordings...
Otherwise it all makes sense ;)
On Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 02:00:05PM -0400, Dan
Easley wrote:
> On 7/6/06, Pieter Palmers <pieterp(a)joow.be> wrote:
>> Paul Winkler wrote:
>>> On Thu, Jul 06, 2006 at 01:43:40PM +0200, Pieter Palmers wrote:
>>>> Modern harddisks use a lot of write caching on the controller to
achieve
>>>> decent performance. So when power
goes down when there is data in the
>>>> write cache, it is lost. The file system however 'thinks' that
data
has
>> been written correctly. This hence results in
file system corruption.
Thanks much for this whole thread. It's added
substance to what I
previously thought was just personal paranoia and suspicion.
I've been under the impression it's cheaper to buy used UPS's and buy
replacement batteries for them. Has anyone done this to good results? soudns like overkill as a hedge against drive
failure though. drives will
fail.
UPS'es don't prevent mechanical drive failure, but they do prevent
'soft' bad sectors. My belief is that these are the most common.
I wouldn't think a 100€ UPS is more overkill than an extra 160G drive
(costing about the same) for RAID/rsync mirroring.
I've made up my mind about this: 'this UPS is to stay', but feel free
not to agree of course ;)
Pieter
7 Jul
7 Jul
8:16 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: AMD64 question: update
Loki Davison wrote:
On 7/7/06, Pieter Palmers <pieterp(a)joow.be>
wrote:
I have the bad luck of living in an expensive country I guess:
WD Caviar 1600JS : 160 Gb S-ATA II (7200/300-8Mb): 86 euro
Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 160Gb S-ATA II 8Mb: 88 euro
Maxtor 6V160E0 : 160Gb (7200/300-8Mb) SATA II: 78 euro
MGE Protection Center 420: 89 euro
MGE Protection Center 500 USB: 102 euro
The 300Gb disks are around 120 euro here.
Probably the you'll be able to get a UPS for less then too.
Greets,
Pieter
PS: where did you get these prices?
carmen wrote:
The RAID does *not* help against power
failures. been there, done that.
rsync will do, but then you have to make sure that the outage does not
occur when running rsync. Anyway it lowers the chance that you'll have
problems.
100 euro! for 160G ouch! my 300 gb 16 mb cache sata2 drive was much
less than that! I don't really have anything that vitial that loosing
it would really suck... guess if i ever make some decent recordings... On Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 02:00:05PM -0400, Dan
Easley wrote:
> On 7/6/06, Pieter Palmers <pieterp(a)joow.be> wrote:
>> Paul Winkler wrote:
>>> On Thu, Jul 06, 2006 at 01:43:40PM +0200, Pieter Palmers wrote:
>>>> Modern harddisks use a lot of write caching on the controller to
achieve
>>>> decent performance. So when power
goes down when there is data
in the
>>>> write cache, it is lost. The file
system however 'thinks' that
data
has
>>>> been written correctly. This
hence results in file system
corruption.
> Thanks much for this whole thread. It's
added substance to what I
> previously thought was just personal paranoia and suspicion.
>
> I've been under the impression it's cheaper to buy used UPS's and buy
> replacement batteries for them. Has anyone done this to good
results?
im guessing 2 drives , synched nightly via rsync, or in a RAID
configuration, is
cheaper, and friendlier for the environment than
huge/heavy UPS batteries. i guess i'd invest in that if the electricity
infrastructure in my area was particularly bad. or in combination with
daytime solar replenishing to run completely off-grid.
soudns like overkill as a hedge against drive
failure though.
drives will
fail.
UPS'es don't prevent mechanical drive failure, but they do prevent
'soft' bad sectors. My belief is that these are the most common.
I wouldn't think a 100€ UPS is more overkill than an extra 160G drive
(costing about the same) for RAID/rsync mirroring.
I've made up my mind about this: 'this UPS is to stay', but feel free
not to agree of course ;)
Pieter
9:02 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: AMD64 question: update
On 7/7/06, Pieter Palmers <pieterp(a)joow.be> wrote:
Loki Davison wrote:
135.00 AUD Australia Dollars = 78.9844 EUR Euro
Maxtor 300gb
http://www.msy.com.au/Parts/PARTS.pdf
Good prices there on most stuff. Though probably more handy if you
live in Australia ;)
Loki
On 7/7/06, Pieter Palmers <pieterp(a)joow.be>
wrote:
I have the bad luck of living in an expensive country I guess:
WD Caviar 1600JS : 160 Gb S-ATA II (7200/300-8Mb): 86 euro
Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 160Gb S-ATA II 8Mb: 88 euro
Maxtor 6V160E0 : 160Gb (7200/300-8Mb) SATA II: 78 euro
MGE Protection Center 420: 89 euro
MGE Protection Center 500 USB: 102 euro
The 300Gb disks are around 120 euro here.
Probably the you'll be able to get a UPS for less then too.
Greets,
Pieter
PS: where did you get these prices?
carmen wrote:
The RAID does *not* help against power
failures. been there, done that.
rsync will do, but then you have to make sure that the outage does not
occur when running rsync. Anyway it lowers the chance that you'll have
problems.
100 euro! for 160G ouch! my 300 gb 16 mb cache sata2 drive was much
less than that! I don't really have anything that vitial that loosing
it would really suck... guess if i ever make some decent recordings... On Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 02:00:05PM -0400, Dan
Easley wrote:
> On 7/6/06, Pieter Palmers <pieterp(a)joow.be> wrote:
>> Paul Winkler wrote:
>>> On Thu, Jul 06, 2006 at 01:43:40PM +0200, Pieter Palmers wrote:
>>>> Modern harddisks use a lot of write caching on the controller to
achieve
>>>> decent performance. So when power
goes down when there is data
in the
>>>> write cache, it is lost. The file
system however 'thinks' that
data
has
>>>> been written correctly. This
hence results in file system
corruption.
> Thanks much for this whole thread. It's
added substance to what I
> previously thought was just personal paranoia and suspicion.
>
> I've been under the impression it's cheaper to buy used UPS's and buy
> replacement batteries for them. Has anyone done this to good
results?
im guessing 2 drives , synched nightly via rsync, or in a RAID
configuration, is
cheaper, and friendlier for the environment than
huge/heavy UPS batteries. i guess i'd invest in that if the electricity
infrastructure in my area was particularly bad. or in combination with
daytime solar replenishing to run completely off-grid.
soudns like overkill as a hedge against drive
failure though.
drives will
fail.
UPS'es don't prevent mechanical drive failure, but they do prevent
'soft' bad sectors. My belief is that these are the most common.
I wouldn't think a 100€ UPS is more overkill than an extra 160G drive
(costing about the same) for RAID/rsync mirroring.
I've made up my mind about this: 'this UPS is to stay', but feel free
not to agree of course ;)
Pieter
27 Jun
27 Jun
6:18 p.m.
Hallo,
Lee Revell hat gesagt: // Lee Revell wrote:
On Tue, 2006-06-27 at 17:36 +0000, carmen wrote:
As I understand it, in Pd it is not a code problem, but "architecture"
issue. See e.g. here:
http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2005-08/030501.html
Ciao
--
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
woops, actualy meant Chuck, PD, and SCLang.
Shouldn't this be trivial to fix if the code is sanely written?
6:23 p.m.
On Tue, 2006-06-27 at 22:18 +0200, Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo,
Lee Revell hat gesagt: // Lee Revell wrote:
It seems that the developers are the last to get the new toys ;-)
Lee
On Tue, 2006-06-27 at 17:36 +0000, carmen wrote:
As I understand it, in Pd it is not a code problem, but "architecture"
issue. See e.g. here:
http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2005-08/030501.html woops, actualy meant Chuck, PD, and SCLang.
Shouldn't this be trivial to fix if the code is sanely written?
6:46 p.m.
As I understand it, in Pd it is not a code problem,
but "architecture"
issue. See e.g. here:
http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2005-08/030501.html
and for SuperCollider, see here:
http://www.create.ucsb.edu/pipermail/sc-dev/2005-November/009371.html
"I don't really see a big need to run the language in a 64 bit address space,
though." - James McCartney, author of SC.
12:18 p.m.
On Tue, Jun 27, 2006 at 08:30:54AM -0400, Dave Phillips wrote:
Greetings:
Not long ago I mentioned that a student had traded an MSI mobo (socket
939) for some lessons. I'm ready to start building a system around that
board, and I have some questions for this list:
1) I can get a new AMD64 Athlon 3800 2.4 GHz for (US) $145. Is the
Athlon 64 a good chip for audio work, and is that a good price ? It's
the best listed on Pricewatch.
I think so. I paid more for a 2.2 GHz 3500+ two months ago!
2) Recommended case/power supply ?
I went with an Antec Sonata, which out-of-the-box is hardly
silent, but it's solid and pretty easy to work with.
Then I added the foam kit for it that quietpc.com sells. I had the case
for a while, and when I recently upgraded (from a PIII 866 to the AMD)
I decided to get the foam kit. Took a bit of fiddling to get everything
in, but the difference is very noticeable. It's now similar in noise to
an idling laptop. This is with the stock AMD cpu fan. The case came
with a quiet power supply. I'm happy.
I chose my graphics card largely for lack of fan - I got a
Gigabyte GV-NX66256DP2. Works well with either the kernel drivers
or the nvidia drivers.
Most of the remaining noise in my system seems to come out the
rear, where the fans are. I put the case about 8" away from the
back wall and put some foam acoustic treatment on that wall behind
the case to reduce reflections off the wall. That made a noticeable
difference.
The one remaining irritant is hard drive noise. The Sonata
3.5" drive mounts are supposed to reduce hard drive vibration coupling
to the case, but my main drive still makes quite a bit of noise wheen
seeking. (I don't hear whining, but I do hear fast "clunky" noises.)
I moved my "audio" drive up to the 5.25" drive bay, mounted on
one of these ...
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16817991002
... largely for cabling, because it was the only way I could get
that drive on the second IDE channel; I was having problems with
drive performance with lots of tracks in ardour. Seems better now.
As a nice side benefit, that drive seems quieter now.
I may get another of those 5.25" mounts and try putting the system drive
up there too.
3) The MSI box says it includes an nVidia nForce3
chipset, which I
assume means that there's an audio/video chipset on the mobo. I'll
probably disable the audio, and I have a gForce AGP video card to put in
the machine. Question: Am I better off using the integrated video or
should I use my card instead ? (Btw, I use the kernel nv driver, not
nVidia's binary driver).
No idea, sorry. BTW, nforce3 doesn't automatically mean it has onboard
video. My nforce 4 board doesn't.
Onboard audio is likely. I just disabled mine in the BIOS.
4) I assume I'll have to buy new RAM. What should
I buy ?
Something compatible ;-) I went with 1 GB of Kingston ValueRAM.
The system reports it as 1004 MB, but hey, it was cheap :-p
5) The CPU includes a fan, but should I get something
more powerful ?
I'd try it first. Mine seems fine. I was afraid it would be very noisy,
but with all the padding in my case I don't hear it at all over the
(quiet) case fan and PSU fan.
6) How can I best reduce the noise from this system ?
See above :)
7) Am I correct to assume that this system runs in a
32-bit more as
well as the 64-bit ? How do I determine which mode I'll run in ?
I'm a gentoo guy, so I just read their 64-bit guide and followed that.
So I'd advise to read whatever info your distro provides about the
matter.
Once I was up and running, I just use the system as normal...
I rarely if ever have to think about how many bits.
The one inconvenience is that sometimes a gentoo ebuild that's marked stable
for 32 isn't marked stable for 64 yet.
--
Paul Winkler
http://www.slinkp.com
1:32 p.m.
On 6/27/06, Dave Phillips <dlphillips(a)woh.rr.com> wrote:
Greetings:
Not long ago I mentioned that a student had traded an MSI mobo (socket
939) for some lessons. I'm ready to start building a system around that
board, and I have some questions for this list:
2) Recommended case/power supply ?
I got an Antec Sonata last year for about $100. It's a good case,
fairly quiet in its basic components.
5) The CPU includes a fan, but should I get
something more powerful ?
I like the Zalman fans, too.
7) Am I correct to assume that this system runs in a
32-bit more as
well as the 64-bit ? How do I determine which mode I'll run in ?
I've got two AMD64 systems. So far, both are running in 32-bit mode.
They run *very* well that way, and all Linux applications I've tried work
fine. Others (like Mark Knecht) have told you their experience with
AMD64. If you want to play with that, I'm sure it is a worthwhile
exercise. The more people use it, the more software problems get fixed.
For practical engineering, the only two reasons I know for running in
64-bit mode are: (1) more general-purpose registers available to the
compiler; and (2) can run more than 3GB of real memory.
Reason (1) should help some when running audio applications, though
the storage accesses saved must be traded off against the larger cache
footprint due to 64-bit pointers, integers, etc. I believe the benefit is
relatively small (<10%), but have not done any tests myself. For
some plugins this effect may be more dramatic.
Reason (2) is not an issue for me right now, I've only got 1GB of ram.
This is mainly important for database servers, so they can fit the
whole database in real memory, only doing I/O for the log writes
and occasional updates of modified pages. It is not important for
most current-generation audio applications.
Several people have mentioned the benefits of Gentoo. If you prefer
a relatively trouble-free, up-to-date binary distribution, I have been
very happy with Ubuntu Dapper. The Ubuntu Studio project provides
a large set of relatively recent audio applications. Fedora plus the
Planet CCRMA packages is also a good choice.
Sorry for all the questions, I'm completely new to
the 64-bit game. As
always, any & all advice will be vastly appreciated. :)
Happy to help. You're going to enjoy your new machine. ;-)
--
joq
6497
days inactive
6507
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
60 comments
21 participants
participants (21)
-
Arnold Krille -
carmen -
Dan Easley -
Dave Phillips -
Fernando Lopez-Lezcano -
Folderol -
Frank Barknecht -
Gian Paolo Mureddu -
Jack O'Quin -
james＠dis-dot-dat.net -
John Anderson -
Lee Revell -
Loki Davison -
Maarten de Boer -
Mark Knecht -
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Pieter Palmers -
Thomas Vecchione -
tim hall -
yves_p＠nnx.com