4 Mar
2009
4 Mar
'09
5:07 p.m.
I have a question about running linux in ram.
The Scenario.
I'm researching building a dedicated Lsampler box, running headless, with
netjack doing the ins and outs.
Given the usually large templates i run (full orchestra), including a lot of
articulations, i'm wondering how feasible it would be to build a barebones
Linux OS, with linuxsampler as the sole app, more or less, (and required
libs, etc...), and run the entire thing in ram, that is, the OS, Lsampler,
and samples.
Is this possible, and if someone's already tried this in some form or other
successfully or otherwise, could you share some experiences, pros and cons,
etc... ?
I would be doing all this in Linux 64bit, if it has some decent advantages.
Alex.
--
Parchment Studios (It started as a joke...)
4 Mar
4 Mar
6:17 p.m.
Hello Alex!
I only worked with KNOPPIX yet. But I've done some weird installations, only
working from ram and via ssh. A few thoughts on this:
1. You might have a look a GRML, which is based on debian. It's goal is to
only include text-based apps. Which would be sufficient for your purpose. I
believe, that it can be very small.
2. Concerning the samples, my opinion is - and it might be wrong -, that you
should have some diskwith a good data rate there. So Lsampler can stream data
easily. Especially when we're talking about big setups (orchestra).
As to headless and linuxsampler: Well it is generally nothing but a telnet
client. And all it's interface, I believe, use that protocol. So no prob
there.
3. As to the libraries and basics: Well you'd of courseneed a nice kernel
(something very realtime capable), and my linuxsampler has this:
linux-gate.so.1 => (0xb7efc000)
liblinuxsampler.so.1 =>
/usr/local/lib/linuxsampler/liblinuxsampler.so.1
(0xb7d67000)
libuuid.so.1 => /lib/libuuid.so.1 (0xb7d51000)
libstdc++.so.6 => /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6 (0xb7c63000)
libm.so.6 => /lib/libm.so.6 (0xb7c3d000)
libgcc_s.so.1 => /lib/libgcc_s.so.1 (0xb7c30000)
libpthread.so.0 => /lib/libpthread.so.0 (0xb7c18000)
libc.so.6 => /lib/libc.so.6 (0xb7ad9000)
libsqlite3.so.0 => /usr/lib/libsqlite3.so.0 (0xb7a6a000)
libgig.so.6 => /usr/local/lib/libgig.so.6 (0xb7a38000)
libjack.so.0 => /usr/local/lib/libjack.so.0 (0xb7a1d000)
libsamplerate.so.0 => /usr/local/lib/libsamplerate.so.0 (0xb7a00000)
libasound.so.2 => /usr/lib/libasound.so.2 (0xb793e000)
libdl.so.2 => /lib/libdl.so.2 (0xb7939000)
librt.so.1 => /lib/librt.so.1 (0xb7930000)
/lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0xb7efd000)
You may minimize that a bit by statically linking. But your kernel still
would need ALSA or something MIDI. If you're really doing it yourself, you
should definitely optimize your kernel. Compile it by hand and exclude
anything youdon't need (stupid ahrdware component, filesystems, special
network stuff, etc.).
I hope this is not too obvious and too stupid an answer. In the best case
it's helpful and in the worst case, it wasted a minute, in which case i
appologise. :-(
Kindest regards
Julien
--------
Music was my first love and it will be my last (John Miles)
======== FIND MY WEB-PROJECT AT: ========
http://ltsb.sourceforge.net
the Linux TextBased Studio guide
======= AND MY PERSONAL PAGES AT: =======
http://www.juliencoder.de
7:46 p.m.
On Thu, Mar 05, 2009 at 12:07:57AM +0300, alex stone wrote:
I have a question about running linux in ram.
The Scenario.
I'm researching building a dedicated Lsampler box, running headless, with
netjack doing the ins and outs.
Given the usually large templates i run (full orchestra), including a lot of
articulations, i'm wondering how feasible it would be to build a barebones
Linux OS, with linuxsampler as the sole app, more or less, (and required
libs, etc...), and run the entire thing in ram, that is, the OS, Lsampler,
and samples.
Is this possible, and if someone's already tried this in some form or other
successfully or otherwise, could you share some experiences, pros and cons,
etc... ?
I would be doing all this in Linux 64bit, if it has some decent advantages.
Are you running into problems with a conventional setup?
Generally Linux pages whatever you need into RAM, and
anything that isn't used much gets swapped out. So without
doing anything, you might already be close to a
configuration that will work for you.
The leads me to suggest doing the job the vanilla way, then
adding optimizations incrementally to improve performance
to what you need.
I don't think that going headless, in itself, will give
you any benefits as far as your system's memory use.
AFAIK, you don't need to strip down your environment, as
having all the development tools and coveniences on disk
won't affect your memory consumption.
Joel
Alex.
--
Parchment Studios (It started as a joke...)
_______________________________________________
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Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user
--
Joel Roth
5 Mar
5 Mar
3:15 a.m.
Thanks Gentlemen, lots of food for thought in your suggestions and
questions.
I'm definitely interested in building a 'vanilla' OS, stripped down to be as
lean as possible.
The swapoff command i didn't know about, so i'll have a look at that. That
may well be sufficient, but i'll test it, and see what happens.
Joel, i don't have problems with the regular setup, i'm just aiming for the
leanest, most efficient, stable setup i can get. You may well be right, that
what i have is close to ok now, and could just benefit from a tweak or two
here and there.
Julien, i've taken notes from your ideas. I like the idea of a text only
based OS for LS, as i use this now for opening regular templates. Makes
sense to me getting rid of cpu munching possibilities of a gui, and just
work at the most efficient interface possible.
James, i'd need to go through the processes i don't need, but having disks
as read only makes sense to me. I've already got two dedicated sample disks
that i keep scrupulously clean that are pretty well read only in my natural
workflow, so the 'habit' is already embedded.
Again, thanks fellas. This sort of info is highly useful for me, and
possibly others.
Alex.
On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 2:45 AM, Joel Roth <joelz(a)pobox.com> wrote:
On Thu, Mar 05, 2009 at 12:07:57AM +0300, alex stone
wrote:
--
Parchment Studios (It started as a joke...)
I have a question about running linux in ram.
The Scenario.
I'm researching building a dedicated Lsampler box, running headless, with
netjack doing the ins and outs.
Given the usually large templates i run (full orchestra), including a lot
of
articulations, i'm wondering how feasible it
would be to build a
barebones
Linux OS, with linuxsampler as the sole app, more
or less, (and required
libs, etc...), and run the entire thing in ram, that is, the OS,
Lsampler,
and samples.
Is this possible, and if someone's already tried this in some form or
other
successfully or otherwise, could you share some
experiences, pros and
cons,
etc... ?
I would be doing all this in Linux 64bit, if it has some decent
advantages.
Are you running into problems with a conventional setup?
Generally Linux pages whatever you need into RAM, and
anything that isn't used much gets swapped out. So without
doing anything, you might already be close to a
configuration that will work for you.
The leads me to suggest doing the job the vanilla way, then
adding optimizations incrementally to improve performance
to what you need.
I don't think that going headless, in itself, will give
you any benefits as far as your system's memory use.
AFAIK, you don't need to strip down your environment, as
having all the development tools and coveniences on disk
won't affect your memory consumption.
Joel
Alex.
--
Parchment Studios (It started as a joke...)
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user
--
Joel Roth
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user
3:42 a.m.
Den Wednesday 04 March 2009 22.07.57 skrev alex stone:
I have a question about running linux in ram.
The Scenario.
I'm researching building a dedicated Lsampler box, running headless, with
netjack doing the ins and outs.
Given the usually large templates i run (full orchestra), including a lot
of articulations, i'm wondering how feasible it would be to build a
barebones Linux OS, with linuxsampler as the sole app, more or less, (and
required libs, etc...), and run the entire thing in ram, that is, the OS,
Lsampler, and samples.
Is this possible, and if someone's already tried this in some form or other
successfully or otherwise, could you share some experiences, pros and cons,
etc... ?
Hi Alex,
We have a home brew at work that is a Liveubuntu with some extra mayonnaise.
PXE-boot (net boot) of the kernel through a boot server (Ubuntu 8.04). All
runs in memory. Everything you install (from the boot server) on desktop OS
(Ubuntu) can be saved as a file with apt-get install set and reinstalls
automatically when you boot next time. This makes us a hardware independent
up to the point whats in our kenrel. I was not the designer of the system so
I don't have the intricate details of it but if you're interested I could ask
(not that hard. the designer is sitting 3 doors down) about them. I do
remember a caveat about booting. The initrd can't hold more than xx amount of
data and that made the designer do some trick to get around that. What I can
about the system is that you'll need at least 2G of memory to run smoothly.
/bengan
4 a.m.
/bengan,
Any info would be appreciated. It would certainly help me to make, what i
hope, is better decisions.
For further thought, i'm considering lashing the two boxes together with
twin Gigabit Ethernet cards in each, to maximise throughput.
The initial intention for consideration is 64GB ram in the Sampler box (to
run a big orchestral template entirely 'live'), and 32GB in the DAW box.
A further question arises from this concerning Netjack.
Can i use multiple in/outs with netjack? Or is the connection single audio
midi in/out only?
Or can i simply use GB ethernet to stream audio midi directly to/from LS
in/out, and use just Jack on the daw box to handle any ports/clients?
Alex.
On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 10:42 AM, Bengt Gördén <bengan(a)bag.org> wrote:
Den Wednesday 04 March 2009 22.07.57 skrev alex
stone:
--
Parchment Studios (It started as a joke...)
I have a question about running linux in ram.
The Scenario.
I'm researching building a dedicated Lsampler box, running headless, with
netjack doing the ins and outs.
Given the usually large templates i run (full orchestra), including a lot
of articulations, i'm wondering how feasible it would be to build a
barebones Linux OS, with linuxsampler as the sole app, more or less, (and
required libs, etc...), and run the entire thing in ram, that is, the OS,
Lsampler, and samples.
Is this possible, and if someone's already tried this in some form or
other
successfully or otherwise, could you share some
experiences, pros and
cons,
etc... ?
Hi Alex,
We have a home brew at work that is a Liveubuntu with some extra
mayonnaise.
PXE-boot (net boot) of the kernel through a boot server (Ubuntu 8.04). All
runs in memory. Everything you install (from the boot server) on desktop OS
(Ubuntu) can be saved as a file with apt-get install set and reinstalls
automatically when you boot next time. This makes us a hardware independent
up to the point whats in our kenrel. I was not the designer of the system
so
I don't have the intricate details of it but if you're interested I could
ask
(not that hard. the designer is sitting 3 doors down) about them. I do
remember a caveat about booting. The initrd can't hold more than xx amount
of
data and that made the designer do some trick to get around that. What I
can
about the system is that you'll need at least 2G of memory to run smoothly.
/bengan
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user
4:03 a.m.
I should add here, i'd still have the OS and LS on a HD in the sampler box.
But i'd like to have the whole thing run in ram, and boot only from the HD.
Alex.
On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 10:42 AM, Bengt Gördén <bengan(a)bag.org> wrote:
Den Wednesday 04 March 2009 22.07.57 skrev alex
stone:
--
Parchment Studios (It started as a joke...)
I have a question about running linux in ram.
The Scenario.
I'm researching building a dedicated Lsampler box, running headless, with
netjack doing the ins and outs.
Given the usually large templates i run (full orchestra), including a lot
of articulations, i'm wondering how feasible it would be to build a
barebones Linux OS, with linuxsampler as the sole app, more or less, (and
required libs, etc...), and run the entire thing in ram, that is, the OS,
Lsampler, and samples.
Is this possible, and if someone's already tried this in some form or
other
successfully or otherwise, could you share some
experiences, pros and
cons,
etc... ?
Hi Alex,
We have a home brew at work that is a Liveubuntu with some extra
mayonnaise.
PXE-boot (net boot) of the kernel through a boot server (Ubuntu 8.04). All
runs in memory. Everything you install (from the boot server) on desktop OS
(Ubuntu) can be saved as a file with apt-get install set and reinstalls
automatically when you boot next time. This makes us a hardware independent
up to the point whats in our kenrel. I was not the designer of the system
so
I don't have the intricate details of it but if you're interested I could
ask
(not that hard. the designer is sitting 3 doors down) about them. I do
remember a caveat about booting. The initrd can't hold more than xx amount
of
data and that made the designer do some trick to get around that. What I
can
about the system is that you'll need at least 2G of memory to run smoothly.
/bengan
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user
5:29 a.m.
----- "alex stone" <compose59(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I should add here, i'd still have the OS and LS on
a HD in the sampler
box. But i'd like to have the whole thing run in ram, and boot only
from the HD.
Alex.
I never did such a thing, but here is how I would try:
1 - compile the kernel to only put what I need to let the hardware
run (so no modules for example, and only the file
system drivers for the harddisk, initrd, ramdisk)
2 - make an initrd disk with a small system
The initrd minimal system would:
3 - format a ramdisk file system "big enough"
(that depends on your setup)
4 - copy everything from the HD to this ramdisk
5 - do some kind of chroot and run you LS stuff
And roll on.
Step 4 might take a while.
Or not.
You have to mount the harddisk, then cp all,
then umount the harddisk. If you don't umount
maybe things will boot faster but there might
be some disk latency at the beginning for the
kernel has to copy data from harddisk to memory
when you use it the first time. So I think
you want to umount.
How minimal can the initrd be? Very. It
doesn't have a lot of things to do. Since
you know your hardware you can bypass a lot
of tools run at startup by big distributions.
(I have a bad internet access, so I can't look
for links, but it should not be too hard. Knoppix
has an initrd, so does Debian, IIRC. There must
some good doc somewhere.)
Just my fews cents.
Bon courage !
Cédric.
5744
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7 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
-
alex stone -
Bengt Gördén -
Cedric Roux -
Joel Roth -
Julien Claassen