28 Sep
2007
28 Sep
'07
12:37 a.m.
I've read this a couple of times over the years but it still
does not make much sense (to me)...
http://alsa-project.org/alsa-doc/alsa-lib/pcm_plugins.html
As a baseline, say I started with this, where could I go
from here to get an app (ie; Amarok) to play back out two
soundcards at once ?
# cat .asoundrc
pcm.NVidia { type hw; card NVidia; }
ctl.NVidia { type hw; card NVidia; }
pcm.USX2Y { type hw; card USX2Y; }
ctl.USX2Y { type hw; card USX2Y; }
pcm.shared {
type dshare
ipc_key 321456 # any unique value
ipc_key_add_uid true
slave NVidia
slave USX2Y
bindings {
0 0
1 1
}
}
--markc
28 Sep
28 Sep
1:29 a.m.
Mark Constable wrote:
I've read this a couple of times over the years
but it still
does not make much sense (to me)...
http://alsa-project.org/alsa-doc/alsa-lib/pcm_plugins.html
As a baseline, say I started with this, where could I go
from here to get an app (ie; Amarok) to play back out two
soundcards at once ?
Hmm, maybe you could play it to JACK and have JACK route it to both
sound cards?
--
David
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
1:29 a.m.
On 9/27/07, Mark Constable <markc(a)renta.net> wrote:
I've read this a couple of times over the years
but it still
does not make much sense (to me)...
http://alsa-project.org/alsa-doc/alsa-lib/pcm_plugins.html
As a baseline, say I started with this, where could I go
from here to get an app (ie; Amarok) to play back out two
soundcards at once ?
It's one of those things that seems like it should be easy but is in
fact nearly impossible. The problem is that the sound cards cannot be
kept in sync on the hardware level.
Lee
2:49 a.m.
On Friday 28 September 2007, Lee wrote:
I can appreciate for input that would be a critical
showstopper but for output it's not such a big deal.
I mainly want to start down the track of trying to
understand asoundrc magic and I thought this would be
a nice gentle and practical first step.
Could anyone offer an asoundrc recipe for me to work
from (seeing I obviously have no idea at all) ?
On 2007-09-28 14:43, david wrote:
As a baseline,
say I started with this, where could I go
from here to get an app (ie; Amarok) to play back out two
soundcards at once ?
It's one of those things that seems like it should be easy but is in
fact nearly impossible. The problem is that the sound cards cannot be
kept in sync on the hardware level. Hmm, maybe you could play it to JACK and have JACK
route it to both
sound cards?
Can you suggest some apps or utilities for this purpose ?
I've tried to use Jack over the past few years but I
mostly end up with a locked up machine.
--markc
6:05 a.m.
Am Freitag, 28. September 2007 schrieb Mark Constable:
On Friday 28 September 2007, Lee wrote:
I can appreciate for input that would be a
critical
showstopper but for output it's not such a big deal.
It is a big deal even for output. One soundcards output-buffer will be emptied
before the other (because of slightly different 48kHz) and this soundcard
will fire its Interrupt before the other. And then things become unstable...
Either you have (professional) soundcards that allow some kind of syncing via
world-clock or similar or:
If you do have a lot of time and a hand with the soldering-iron you can try to
sync several soundcards on the hardware-level by removing the quartz from all
but one soundcard and then solder cables from the one remaining quartz to the
other soundcards. This is best done with several similar (and cheap)
soundcards.
Then you still have the problem of all soundcards sending Interrupts where one
would be enough. So you would have to mask the interrupts from all but one
soundcard...
Only after that you can really start the asound-magic to couple the soundcards
together. At least before the soldering step above it will _never_ work
reliably.
As a
baseline, say I started with this, where could I go
from here to get an app (ie; Amarok) to play back out two
soundcards at once ?
It's one of those things that seems like it should be
easy but is in
fact nearly impossible. The problem is that the sound cards cannot be
kept in sync on the hardware level. On 2007-09-28 14:43, david wrote:
> Hmm, maybe you could play it to JACK and have JACK route it to both
> sound cards?
Jack routing to two soundcards depends on alsa providing two soundcards as
one. Back to start you go!
Arnold
--
visit http://www.arnoldarts.de/
---
Hi, I am a .signature virus. Please copy me into your ~/.signature and send me
to all your contacts.
After a month or so log in as root and do a rm / -rf. Or ask your
administrator to do so...
6:34 a.m.
Arnold Krille wrote:
I don't have any desire to run two soundcards. My desktop could, but I
prefer the PCI soundcard to that built in to the motherboard. My laptop
has the Intel audio stuff built in and I don't particularly want to add
another soundcard to it.
The original poster wanted to output simultaneously to two sound cards,
though.
--
David
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
On 2007-09-28
14:43, david wrote:
> Hmm, maybe you could play it to JACK and have JACK route it to both
> sound cards?
Jack routing to two soundcards depends on alsa providing two soundcards as
one. Back to start you go!
7:23 a.m.
On 2007-09-28 19:16, Arnold Krille wrote:
Only after that you can really start the asound-magic
to couple the soundcards
together. At least before the soldering step above it will _never_ work
reliably.
Thank you for the excellent explanation. Say I went to the
bother of using a soldering iron, what would be the asound
magic to glue them together ?
pcm.NVidia { type hw; card NVidia; }
ctl.NVidia { type hw; card NVidia; }
pcm.Live { type hw; card Live; }
ctl.Live { type hw; card Live; }
Assuming these 2 cards... anyone ?
--markc
8:26 a.m.
Am Freitag, 28. September 2007 schrieb Mark Constable:
On 2007-09-28 19:16, Arnold Krille wrote:
Something like
http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Asoundrc#Virtual_multi_channel_d…
But you would have to use two times the same soundcard. So two SBLives "could"
work (assuming the nvidia is the onboard-sound) but syncing / soldering two
different kinds of soundcards is asking for trouble...
But if you already have an sblive and simply want more hardware-ios, try to
grab a LiveDrive from your dealer or from ebay. I got mine from ebay for <25€
some years ago and have now 6 analog-ios (in _and_ out) and another two
digital ios (spdif and optical). The only step after that was the presonus
firepod for more quality:-)
Arnold
--
visit http://www.arnoldarts.de/
---
Hi, I am a .signature virus. Please copy me into your ~/.signature and send me
to all your contacts.
After a month or so log in as root and do a rm / -rf. Or ask your
administrator to do so...
Only after that you can really start the
asound-magic to couple the
soundcards together. At least before the soldering step above it will
_never_ work reliably.
Thank you for the excellent explanation. Say I went to the
bother of using a soldering iron, what would be the asound
magic to glue them together ?
pcm.NVidia { type hw; card NVidia; }
ctl.NVidia { type hw; card NVidia; }
pcm.Live { type hw; card Live; }
ctl.Live { type hw; card Live; }
Assuming these 2 cards... anyone ?
8:28 a.m.
Am Freitag, 28. September 2007 schrieb Mark Constable:
On 2007-09-28 19:16, Arnold Krille wrote:
Assuming these 2 cards... anyone ?
Additionally: http://alsa.opensrc.org/index.php/TwoCardsAsOne
Arnold
--
visit http://www.arnoldarts.de/
---
Hi, I am a .signature virus. Please copy me into your ~/.signature and send me
to all your contacts.
After a month or so log in as root and do a rm / -rf. Or ask your
administrator to do so...
1:35 p.m.
At least before the soldering step above it will
_never_ work
reliably.
if you dont want to solder or hack asound, you can just run 2 jackds, and a resampling
client of both daemons (at once) like jack_diplomat.
obviously resampling lowers quality a bit, but chances are (s)he just wants cheapo io
otherwise they would have gotten a card with more ports, word clock slaving, etc..
http://spark.woaf.net/jack_diplomat-0.70.tar.bz2
never tried it myself..
2:10 p.m.
On Fri, 2007-09-28 at 11:35 -0400, cdr wrote:
No need for two JACK daemons, just run alsa_out from the netjack package
to connect to the ALSA device that jackd isn't running on.
--ll
At least
before the soldering step above it will _never_ work
reliably.
if you dont want to solder or hack asound, you can just run 2 jackds,
and a resampling client of both daemons (at once) like jack_diplomat.
obviously resampling lowers quality a bit, but chances are (s)he just
wants cheapo io otherwise they would have gotten a card with more
ports, word clock slaving, etc..
http://spark.woaf.net/jack_diplomat-0.70.tar.bz2
never tried it myself..
7:29 a.m.
Mark Constable wrote:
On 2007-09-28 14:43, david wrote:
Sorry, haven't a clue. From what someone else said, it's not an option,
anyway.
Hmm, maybe you could play it to JACK and have
JACK route it to both
sound cards?
Can you suggest some apps or utilities for this purpose ? I've tried to use Jack over the past few years but
I
mostly end up with a locked up machine.
I've never had that problem with JACK at all ...
--
David
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
7:55 a.m.
On 2007-09-28 19:53, david wrote:
May I ask what distro and kernel version you are using ?
Perhaps I could try to emulate your setup.
--markc
Sorry, haven't a clue. From what someone else
said,
it's not an option, anyway.
Surely it would be possible to run 2 Jack aware audio
players with each one outputting to different cards.
Anyone know of a Jack aware audio player ?
I've tried
to use Jack over the past few years but I
mostly end up with a locked up machine.
I've never had that problem with JACK at all ... 
8:05 a.m.
On Fri, 2007-09-28 at 19:55 +1000, Mark Constable wrote:
Surely it would be possible to run 2 Jack aware audio
players with each one outputting to different cards.
Anyone know of a Jack aware audio player ?
There are lots of them. I'd recommend Aqualung, for example. The problem
remains, though, that Jack is driven by only one of your sound cards.
Jan
8:42 a.m.
On 2007-09-28 20:36, Jan Weil wrote:
Damn, that's not in my distro. I might be able to create
a package build for it and compile it from source. Thanks
for the pointer.
--markc
> Surely it would be possible to run 2 Jack aware
audio
> players with each one outputting to different cards.
I see now, Jack is bound to a particular hardware output
device so that "device" would have to be split (if possible)
between two real hardware devices at the lower alsa-lib level.
Anyone know of
a Jack aware audio player ?
There are lots of them. I'd recommend Aqualung, for example. The problem
remains, though, that Jack is driven by only one of your sound cards. 
1:10 p.m.
On Fri, 2007-09-28 at 20:42 +1000, Mark Constable wrote:
Damn, that's not in my distro. I might be able to create
a package build for it and compile it from source. Thanks
for the pointer.
alsaplayer, xmms, anything that uses gstreamer (e.g. rhythmbox) ... they
can all play via JACK. i think even the xine-libs support JACK now, so
things that use that (amarok, for instance) can also talk to JACK.
not that any of this really has any direct relevance for your goals.
Anyone know of a Jack aware audio player ?
There are lots of them. I'd recommend Aqualung, for example. The problem
remains, though, that Jack is driven by only one of your sound cards. 
10:47 a.m.
On Friday 28 September 2007 06:05 am, Jan Weil wrote:
On Fri, 2007-09-28 at 19:55 +1000, Mark Constable
wrote:
This doesn't help solve the problem, but I think the same jack instance can be
started with one card for input and a different one for output...
If I can find the time, I will test this as well.
Surely it would be possible to run 2 Jack aware
audio
players with each one outputting to different cards.
Anyone know of a Jack aware audio player ?
There are lots of them. I'd recommend Aqualung, for example. The problem
remains, though, that Jack is driven by only one of your sound cards.
Jan
all the best,
drew
9:10 a.m.
Mark Constable wrote:
On 2007-09-28 19:53, david wrote:
May I ask what distro and kernel version you are using ?
Debian testing with kernel 2.6.18-3-686. Non-realtime kernel, configured
however the Debian package maintainer did it.
--
David
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
I've
tried to use Jack over the past few years but I
mostly end up with a locked up machine.
I've never had that problem with JACK
at all ...
10:45 a.m.
On Friday 28 September 2007 05:55 am, Mark Constable wrote:
May I ask what distro and kernel version you are using ?
Perhaps I could try to emulate your setup.
I use various debian and ubuntu boxes for this stuff.
On 2007-09-28 19:53, david wrote:
This one is fine. Run two players and output one song to one card and another
song to the other.
Sorry, haven't a clue. From what someone else
said,
it's not an option, anyway.
Surely it would be possible to run 2 Jack aware audio
players with each one outputting to different cards.
Anyone know of a Jack aware audio player ?
http://jackaudio.org/applications
I tend to use xmms and xmms-jackasyn for simple playing when I want to use
jack for that. But most of my jack work is with ardour, rezound, rivendell,
rotter, and soon the audacity that integrated with rivendell.
I've
tried to use Jack over the past few years but I
mostly end up with a locked up machine.
I've never had that problem with JACK at all ...
--markc
all the best,
drew
10:33 a.m.
On Friday 28 September 2007 12:49 am, Mark Constable wrote:
On Friday 28 September 2007, Lee wrote:
I can appreciate for input that would be a critical
showstopper but for output it's not such a big deal.
I mainly want to start down the track of trying to
understand asoundrc magic and I thought this would be
a nice gentle and practical first step.
Could anyone offer an asoundrc recipe for me to work
from (seeing I obviously have no idea at all) ?
On 2007-09-28 14:43, david wrote:
qjackctl xmms with xmms-jackasyn to get a bit familiar with jack.
but some confused thinking on my part just now makes me think you may need to
solve the original problem even if you want to use jack. I will know more
after I get a chance to run those experiments...
As a
baseline, say I started with this, where could I go
from here to get an app (ie; Amarok) to play back out two
soundcards at once ?
It's one of those things that seems like it should be easy but is in
fact nearly impossible. The problem is that the sound cards cannot be
kept in sync on the hardware level. Hmm, maybe you could play it to JACK and have
JACK route it to both
sound cards?
Can you suggest some apps or utilities for this purpose ?
I've tried to use Jack over the past few years but I
mostly end up with a locked up machine.
--markc
all the best,
drew
1 Oct
1 Oct
7:19 p.m.
On Fri, Sep 28, 2007 at 02:49:25PM +1000, Mark Constable wrote:
On Friday 28 September 2007, Lee wrote:
I can appreciate for input that would be a critical
showstopper but for output it's not such a big deal.
I mainly want to start down the track of trying to
understand asoundrc magic and I thought this would be
a nice gentle and practical first step.
Could anyone offer an asoundrc recipe for me to work
alsa_in and and alsa_out which can be found inside netjack can do this.
please spread the word.
--
torben Hohn
http://galan.sourceforge.net -- The graphical Audio language
As a
baseline, say I started with this, where could I go
from here to get an app (ie; Amarok) to play back out two
soundcards at once ?
It's one of those things that seems like it should be easy but is in
fact nearly impossible. The problem is that the sound cards cannot be
kept in sync on the hardware level. from (seeing I obviously have no idea at all) ?
On 2007-09-28 14:43, david wrote:
Hmm, maybe you could play it to JACK and have
JACK route it to both
sound cards?
Can you suggest some apps or utilities for this purpose ?
I've tried to use Jack over the past few years but I
mostly end up with a locked up machine.
28 Sep
28 Sep
10:29 a.m.
First, let me say I am mostly ignorant here but I still may be able to help.
What do you want to play to the two cards? The same stereo stream? Two
different stereo streams? 4 mono tracks of a single multi track recording?
I see that in the thread, someone mentioned not being able to keep the cards
in sync. I have seen that problem mentioned before but also that if your
cards do word clock that this can be overcome iirc.
I also see that someone mentioned jack and you seem to have always had trouble
with it. Jack has alwasy been my friend. If I can find some time today ot
tonight, I will try and run a jack test with two sound cards for you. One
internal on my laptop and one usb.
If you want to try the jack route, I would be happy to help out some. Try and
catch me as zloc or zotz in #rivendell on irc.freenode.net ...
all the best,
drew
On Thursday 27 September 2007 10:37 pm, Mark Constable wrote:
I've read this a couple of times over the years
but it still
does not make much sense (to me)...
http://alsa-project.org/alsa-doc/alsa-lib/pcm_plugins.html
As a baseline, say I started with this, where could I go
from here to get an app (ie; Amarok) to play back out two
soundcards at once ?
# cat .asoundrc
pcm.NVidia { type hw; card NVidia; }
ctl.NVidia { type hw; card NVidia; }
pcm.USX2Y { type hw; card USX2Y; }
ctl.USX2Y { type hw; card USX2Y; }
pcm.shared {
type dshare
ipc_key 321456 # any unique value
ipc_key_add_uid true
slave NVidia
slave USX2Y
bindings {
0 0
1 1
}
}
--markc
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7:36 p.m.
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Hash: SHA1
Mark Constable wrote:
As a baseline, say I started with this, where could I
go from here
to get an app (ie; Amarok) to play back out two soundcards at once
?
One option would be to use pulseaudio. The latency shouldn't be too
bad, but probably not as good as you can get with jack. Once
pulseaudio is more mature it should be very easy to set up, but at the
moment it can be tricky if you are not familiar with it.
Robert
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7:37 p.m.
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Mark Constable wrote:
As a baseline, say I started with this, where could I
go from here
to get an app (ie; Amarok) to play back out two soundcards at once
?
One option would be to use pulseaudio. The latency shouldn't be too
bad, but probably not as good as you can get with jack. Once
pulseaudio is more mature it should be very easy to set up, but at the
moment it can be tricky if you are not familiar with it.
Robert
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linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
23 comments
11 participants
participants (11)
-
Arnold Krille -
cdr -
david -
drew Roberts -
Jan Weil -
Lars Luthman -
Lee Revell -
Mark Constable -
Paul Davis -
Robert Persson -
torbenh＠gmx.de