25 Aug
2005
25 Aug
'05
1:01 p.m.
Hi!
You probably already thought about it, and you probably have good
reasons not making it... I'm speaking about a forum. I feel that this
tool vould be really really useful to help around... The idea is closed
to the freeaudiosoftware in the sense it would "answer" to questions
related to all linux distributions, bsd, ...
I feel that they got some advantage on mailing list, am I wrong? (like
topic "well" separeted,...)
Any of you have some interest of it? I won't do it and manage it alone,
but I'm able to take part in it (even start it actually)!
But this idea could also somehow take over this mailing list... :-(
-yc-
--
« La musique offre aux passions le moyen de jouir d'elles-mêmes. »
Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche, Le Gai Savoir.
25 Aug
25 Aug
2:25 p.m.
Hi,
Any of you have some interest of it? I won't do it
and manage it
alone, but I'm able to take part in it (even start it actually)!
I'm already struggling with a lot of lists; I certainly will not have
the time to visit a forum on a regular basis.
Mailing lists are that convenient. Messages come in (instead I have to
visit the messages), I can scan them and if I can offer help I do so.
I really don't know why so many people use web based forums. It's so
slooooow - I really dislike all these PHPBBs. Sorry, but forums are for
people who are not able to subscribe a miling list and to set up a
mailaer properly.
But this idea could also somehow take over this
mailing list... :-(
Like the new wiki does. Hmmmm...
Best regards
ce
3:02 p.m.
I would like to see some forums. (perhaps forums.freeaudiosoftware.org?)
There used to be some forums at gazuga.net that weren't Specimen/PHAT specific.
I'd be willing to help set them up and maintain them.
- sharp
On 8/25/05, Christoph Eckert <ce(a)christeck.de> wrote:
Hi,
Any of you have some interest of it? I won't
do it and manage it
alone, but I'm able to take part in it (even start it actually)!
I'm already struggling with a lot of lists; I certainly will not have
the time to visit a forum on a regular basis.
Mailing lists are that convenient. Messages come in (instead I have to
visit the messages), I can scan them and if I can offer help I do so.
I really don't know why so many people use web based forums. It's so
slooooow - I really dislike all these PHPBBs. Sorry, but forums are for
people who are not able to subscribe a miling list and to set up a
mailaer properly.
But this idea could also somehow take over this
mailing list... :-(
Like the new wiki does. Hmmmm...
Best regards
ce
3:15 p.m.
I would also be willing to help when I have time.
On 8/25/05, sharp <sharph(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I would like to see some forums. (perhaps
forums.freeaudiosoftware.org?)
There used to be some forums at gazuga.net that weren't Specimen/PHAT specific.
I'd be willing to help set them up and maintain them.
- sharp
On 8/25/05, Christoph Eckert <ce(a)christeck.de> wrote:
Hi,
Any of you have some interest of it? I won't
do it and manage it
alone, but I'm able to take part in it (even start it actually)!
I'm already struggling with a lot of lists; I certainly will not have
the time to visit a forum on a regular basis.
Mailing lists are that convenient. Messages come in (instead I have to
visit the messages), I can scan them and if I can offer help I do so.
I really don't know why so many people use web based forums. It's so
slooooow - I really dislike all these PHPBBs. Sorry, but forums are for
people who are not able to subscribe a miling list and to set up a
mailaer properly.
But this idea could also somehow take over this
mailing list... :-(
Like the new wiki does. Hmmmm...
Best regards
ce
4:57 p.m.
Isn't a wiki a kind of forum too? ...but the
entries are of higher
quality
That's the point. Did you ever read a thread in a forum (or even a
thread of a recent discussion on a mailing list provided by a HTML
gateway)?
You read a lot and in the end you know that the discussed problem wasn't
solved. You have messed time.
OTOH, problems solved in a long thread can be condensed on a wiki page,
in an optimal world by the one who got helped. This way the wiki grows
pages with high quality content.
That was the origin idea behind wiki.freeaudiosoftware.org.
Best regards
ce
»Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen« (Helmut Schmidt)
8:07 p.m.
Christoph Eckert wrote:
Right, Mr. Eckert. It's hard to discuss an issue in a forum. Some don't
have proper threading (so you end with this long text output in the web
browser). But, more importantly, it's just so darn hard to go back
everyday and find out where you were and reply again.
A mailing list is superior to that.
But, a ml doesn't have the nice conclusion where you can find answers to
already solved issues. There might be one answer in a msg, yes. But you
have to find it. More often, the answer(s) are in several of the msgs.
What we need is a combination of a ml for discussions and solving issues
and a final resting place for the formatted answer(s) to the problem for
later retrieval.
brad
--
Brad Fuller
(408) 799-6124
** Sonaural Audio Studios **
(408) 799-6123 West San Jose
(408) 799-6124 Cambrian
________________________________
Hear us online: www.Sonaural.com
Isn't a
wiki a kind of forum too? ...but the entries are of higher
quality
That's the point. Did you ever read a thread in a forum (or even a
thread of a recent discussion on a mailing list provided by a HTML
gateway)?
You read a lot and in the end you know that the discussed problem wasn't
solved. You have messed time.
OTOH, problems solved in a long thread can be condensed on a wiki page,
in an optimal world by the one who got helped. This way the wiki grows
pages with high quality content.
That was the origin idea behind wiki.freeaudiosoftware.org.
11:18 p.m.
On Thursday 25 August 2005 06:08 pm, Brad Fuller wrote:
More often, the answer(s) are in several of the
msgs.
What we need is a combination of a ml for discussions and solving issues
and a final resting place for the formatted answer(s) to the problem for
later retrieval.
Exactly where a wiki comes into play, with or without the mail list.
Randy Kramer
8:11 p.m.
Christoph Eckert wrote:
man, do you know how many web forums there are out there?!!! i've really
gotta say that if it wasn't for web-based forums, i'd still be ... well,
computer-illiterate. i'd say that forums have helped me out of hopeless
situations 80% of the time to 20% for mailing lists. it is *much* easier
to search a forum for an *existing* solution than to scour mailing
lists. sure, if your problem involves using software that is in
alpa,beta or high development, then a mailing list is perfect to deal
with new problems that may arise and haven't been dealt with before.
sorry, but i think this is such a non-debate ...
Isn't a
wiki a kind of forum too? ...but the entries are of higher
quality
That's the point. Did you ever read a thread in a forum (or even a
thread of a recent discussion on a mailing list provided by a HTML
gateway)?
You read a lot and in the end you know that the discussed problem wasn't
solved. You have messed time.
OTOH, problems solved in a long thread can be
condensed on a wiki page,
in an optimal world by the one who got helped. This way the wiki grows
pages with high quality content.
wikis are a good idea, but they hardly ever progress past a few brief,
initial offerings ... well, the linux audio ones, anyway.
shayne
8:29 p.m.
man, do you know how many web forums there are out
there?!!!
Yes, and these most often use the default PHPBB design ;-) .
i've
really gotta say that if it wasn't for web-based forums, i'd still be
... well, computer-illiterate. i'd say that forums have helped me out
of hopeless situations 80% of the time to 20% for mailing lists. it
is *much* easier to search a forum for an *existing* solution than to
scour mailing lists.
Hey, that's great! OTOH, using search engines: Most mailing lists are
gatewayed to HTML so even solutions in mailing lists can be found using
the search engines.
Best regards
ce
9:34 p.m.
Christoph Eckert wrote:
is true ... but still, most search engines lead me to web forums -
unless of course, i'm searching for a linux audio solution!
shayne
man, do you
know how many web forums there are out there?!!!
Yes, and these most often use the default PHPBB design ;-) .
i've
really gotta say that if it wasn't for web-based forums, i'd still be
... well, computer-illiterate. i'd say that forums have helped me out
of hopeless situations 80% of the time to 20% for mailing lists. it
is *much* easier to search a forum for an *existing* solution than to
scour mailing lists.
Hey, that's great! OTOH, using search engines: Most mailing lists are
gatewayed to HTML so even solutions in mailing lists can be found using
the search engines.
26 Aug
26 Aug
6:30 a.m.
On Thursday 25 August 2005 23:12, Shayne O'Connor wrote:
sorry, but i think this is such a non-debate ...
Yeah, it's a non-debate. I personally am unlikely to use a forum, however if
there's an identifiable need and this much energy towards setting one up, go
for it!
--
cheers,
tim hall
http://glastonburymusic.org.uk/tim
11:16 p.m.
On Thursday 25 August 2005 06:04 pm, Shayne O'Connor wrote:
Emanuel Rumpf wrote:
IIUC, in a forum, all the various replies are shown forever (unless perhaps
some are deleted).
In a wiki, one can go back and edit the page. When discussion has carried on
long enough to uncover the answers someone can (and in the ideal, should) go
back, edit the page, delete the extraneous discussions and highlight the
answers clearly.
Randy Kramer
Isn't a wiki a kind of forum too? ...but the
entries are of higher
quality
geez - how is that true (the higher quality part)?
11:32 p.m.
Randy Kramer wrote:
On Thursday 25 August 2005 06:04 pm, Shayne
O'Connor wrote:
i see now ...
don't forget, though, that sticky threads on forums can serve a similar
purpose.
shayne
Emanuel Rumpf wrote:
IIUC, in a forum, all the various replies are shown forever (unless perhaps
some are deleted).
In a wiki, one can go back and edit the page. When discussion has carried on
long enough to uncover the answers someone can (and in the ideal, should) go
back, edit the page, delete the extraneous discussions and highlight the
answers clearly. Isn't a wiki a kind of forum too? ...but the
entries are of higher
quality
geez - how is that true (the higher quality part)?
26 Aug
26 Aug
12:20 a.m.
On Thursday 25 August 2005 09:33 pm, Shayne O'Connor wrote:
Randy Kramer wrote:
I'm not sure what sticky threads are, but I'm guessing they work on an entire
post basis (preserve, highlight, or whatever)--wikis let you work at a finer
grain level, they let you edit any part of the page content.
Randy Kramer
In a wiki, one can go back and edit the page.
When discussion has
carried on long enough to uncover the answers someone can (and in the
ideal, should) go back, edit the page, delete the extraneous discussions
and highlight the answers clearly.
i see now ...
don't forget, though, that sticky threads on forums can serve a similar
purpose. 
26 Aug
26 Aug
7:38 p.m.
sharp <sharph(a)gmail.com> writes:
I'd be willing to help set them up and maintain
them.
I really can't web forums; they are the pain. To each his own, I
guess, but if you do set it up, please make a transparent access for
mailinglists so that people would still see each other whether they
post to the list or via the web forum.
--
Esben Stien is b0ef@e s a
http://www. s t n m
irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact
[sip|iax]: e e
jid:b0ef@ n n
25 Aug
25 Aug
3:33 p.m.
Christoph Eckert wrote:
I agree, I don't have time to go to forums and hunt around. Just keeping
a list of the forums to go to is a pain. I like to subscribe once and
have all the info sent to me..
ML's are superior for dialogs. But, a wiki is handy since it can post
HowTos and other knowledge-based notes.
We need both. A combination would be great.
brad
Any of you have
some interest of it? I won't do it and manage it
alone, but I'm able to take part in it (even start it actually)!
I'm already struggling with a lot of lists; I certainly will not have
the time to visit a forum on a regular basis.
Mailing lists are that convenient. Messages come in (instead I have to
visit the messages), I can scan them and if I can offer help I do so.
I really don't know why so many people use web based forums. It's so
slooooow - I really dislike all these PHPBBs. Sorry, but forums are for
people who are not able to subscribe a miling list and to set up a
mailaer properly.
8:03 p.m.
Christoph Eckert wrote:
why doesn't everyone stop asking whether they should do stuff, *and just
do it*? it doesn't matter whether anyone here is suffering
subscriber-fatigue, or whether they think the title you have chosen is a
bit 'meh ...', or whether a wiki should be open or not. all that matters
is that people support these things.
if you think something should be done different, do it yourself.
if you think something should be done, then do it ... even if noone else
comes to the party, you'll learn a whole lot :)
shayne
Hi,
they suck for something like LAU, but they're great for others. they are
*much* easier to search, a lot better layed out and organised, etc.
mailing lists are merely more convenient ... i think if you can set up a
PHP forum, then a mailing list is really not a problem. they are hardly
complicated.
don't forget you can subscribe to forum threads with most PHP boards!
Any of you have some interest of it? I won't
do it and manage it
alone, but I'm able to take part in it (even start it actually)!
I'm already struggling with a lot of lists; I certainly will not have
the time to visit a forum on a regular basis.
Mailing lists are that convenient. Messages come in (instead I have to
visit the messages), I can scan them and if I can offer help I do so.
I really don't know why so many people use web based forums. It's so
slooooow - I really dislike all these PHPBBs. Sorry, but forums are for
people who are not able to subscribe a miling list and to set up a
mailaer properly.
But this idea could also somehow take over this
mailing list... :-(
Like the new wiki does. Hmmmm...
3:17 p.m.
On Thursday 25 August 2005 11:01 am, COCHARD Yves wrote:
You probably already thought about it, and you
probably have good
reasons not making it... I'm speaking about a forum.
I prefer wikis to forums. You don't always see it happen in a wiki, but it is
sometimes discussed that there are (at least) two different modes of wiki
pages--thread mode and document mode.
Sometimes a page will be written in document mode from the beginning (see
"more on document mode") below one of the "wiki ways").
Other times the first writer can't make a sufficient page (this by the way,
is, imho, one of the wiki ways), so he writes what he can (perhaps only a
question). Subsequent contributors may answer all or part of the question
(or amplifying the original page) with comments arranged sequentially (and
quite often dated and signed).
With luck, when there are enough pieces of the puzzle on the page, someone
(else?) comes along and "refactors" (rewrites) the page trying to make the
whole thing into one integrated "whole" (i.e., document mode).
When I do that, depending on the situation and licensing or customs of that
wiki, I typically take the names of all the contributors so far and move them
to a "Contributors" section at the bottom of the page. (This is my (usual)
practice on WikiLearn.)
More on document mode:
I should point out that:
* typically pages are not labeled document or thread mode, it is in the eye
of the beholder, (and can be changed by the next comment)
* a page being in document mode does not prohibit comments. In document
mode a comment to a particular paragraph may be made (much like you might do
in quoting portions of a post to a mail list). Such comments are often made
in italics (or something else to set them off from the original text) and
quite often signed and dated.
* see next paragraph
I haven't finished but I'm going to stop here--I probably shouldn't have
started but instead referred you (everyone) to some of the pages on the
original wiki that discuss much of this. (Thinking of another post that
suggested this was a non-public wiki because a password is required for
editing, I would point out that the original wiki now requires a password for
editing (or did a few weeks ago), and the password was (perhaps) a little
harder to come by--you had to find a friend who knew the (current) password
to pass it on to you.
Anyway, some links:
from the original wiki (BTW, Ward Cunningham created and "owns" this wiki):
* http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WelcomeVisitors
* http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WelcomeToWikiPleaseBePolite
* http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WikiMember
* http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WikiCitizen
* http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?GoodWikiCitizen
* http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WikiMaster
* http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WikiZen
from twiki.org (TWiki) and WikiLearn:
* http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/TWiki/WelcomeGuest
* http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Wikilearn/AboutThesePages (if you don't
want to read (or skim) the entire page, start at
http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Wikilearn/AboutThesePages#Brief_Introduction_…
Hmm, I probably didn't even need to include these pages, as there are
(presumably) pages like this on wiki.freeaudiosoftware.org. (But, if not, we
should consider adding some (or linking to some of the above).
Sorry for the length of this post.
Randy Kramer
6830
days inactive
6831
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
24 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
-
Brad Fuller -
Christoph Eckert -
COCHARD Yves -
Emanuel Rumpf -
Esben Stien -
Noah Roberts -
Randy Kramer -
sharp -
Shayne O'Connor -
tim hall