16 May
2011
16 May
'11
10:48 p.m.
hi,
i've been listening to (for nostalgia) a bit of acid/techno from
around 1993/4/5/6 over the past few days. it seemed so simple, and
there seemed so much similarity between the tracks that i mistakenly
thought it would be easy to come up with something which paid homage
in spirit to the techno of those days, while also adding some more
modern twists.
i always prefer the slightly weirder sounds, so of course that's
something i've gone for with this track:
http://jwm-art.net/audio/acid_techno_test1.mp3
but turns out it's not so easy to make this style of music after all!
i've not made any tracks for a while, but it seems i still have a
tendency to manipulate sound using lots of "am pitchshifters".
don't know if i'll do anything else to this or not, not sure it's
worth it at the moment. just thought i'd share to see what others
(being those who like techno etc) thought.
james.
16 May
16 May
11:13 p.m.
Hello James!
I'm not sure, if I ever came in much contact with acid techno, but I
certainly met the species called good, ol' 90s techno. :-) And I missed a few
things here. So if my basic comparison is the wrong genre, just stop reading
here. :-)
Maybe a start at the tempo: It's probably not WAY too slow, but perhaps way
too slow. :-) Mind you, what I associate with acid, seems to be more slow
going and chillout. I remember, that techno round that time could be happy
with tempi up to 180 BPM, but certainly over 140 BPM. It seemed, tat illegal
substances were quite well in trade at that time, so people somehow managed to
dance through a night of that. No particular ill will intended, but that's
what some people from the scene complained about at tat time.
The bass drum: I miss the good old kick your arse and make your neighbours
house collapse bass drum. Either a typical Roland one or the distorted,
compressed and sub-bass EQ'ed criminal offense, that somehow feels rather
good.
The mangled hihats were a nice touch and certainly fitted into the techno of
that time, especially the part of techno, that was not on unspeakable
samplers, which still exist today and poison the minds of unsuspecting young
people. :-) The same goes for sound right at the beginning, can't really tell
what it is, but it sounds disfigured enough to fit in. Don't get me wrong, I'm
nt totally against it, it takes me back, yes I listened to that sort of music
occasionally and enjoyed it quite a bit. It's rather liberating, I suppose I
just came in toomuch contact with satirical and comic writing of late.
difficult to get it out of ones system.
The rest of the electro/industry reminiscent sounds in there are also very
good and proper, but I miss some screetching, smoothcing TB303-ish weird
arpeggio sound in there, that makes sure to fill the upper reaches of the
frequency spectrum. Either that, or easing up on the hihats, so they can tear
ones ears to shreads with their high spectra.
Again slight appologies for the tone, but it's an earnest oppinion, at least
if compared to normal techno from the early to mid 90s. Well if the acid-bit
introduces something vital to the genre you were playing with, excuse me and
forget you read this.
Kindest regards
Julien
--------
Music was my first love and it will be my last (John Miles)
======== FIND MY WEB-PROJECT AT: ========
http://ltsb.sourceforge.net
the Linux TextBased Studio guide
======= AND MY PERSONAL PAGES AT: =======
http://www.juliencoder.de
11:25 p.m.
On 16 May 2011 22:13, Julien Claassen <julien(a)c-lab.de> wrote:
Hello James!
I'm not sure, if I ever came in much contact with acid techno, but I
certainly met the species called good, ol' 90s techno. :-) And I missed a
few things here. So if my basic comparison is the wrong genre, just stop
reading here. :-)
Well yeah, early to mid 90's techno. It had so many names that I
was/am never sure what to call it.
Maybe a start at the tempo: It's probably not WAY
too slow, but perhaps way
too slow. :-) Mind you, what I associate with acid, seems to be more slow
Yes I did want to speed it up, but it's kinda awkward as I would need
to do time-shrinking/and/or/beat slicing.
going and chillout. I remember, that techno round that
time could be happy
with tempi up to 180 BPM, but certainly over 140 BPM. It seemed, tat illegal
Depending on what speed you played it on the record player. There was
some slow stuff. But definitely I think if I make another then a
faster speed is the thing to do from the start. I wanted to make it
fast but for some reason settled on 120bpm!?
substances were quite well in trade at that time, so
people somehow managed
to dance through a night of that. No particular ill will intended, but
that's what some people from the scene complained about at tat time.
I heard that too!
The bass drum: I miss the good old kick your arse and
make your neighbours
house collapse bass drum. Either a typical Roland one or the distorted,
compressed and sub-bass EQ'ed criminal offense, that somehow feels rather
good.
Well I used a random kick sample from one of the hydrogen kits and
applied lots of fx to it. My trouble is I intend to do one thing, then
do something else, then the next day change it all again.
The mangled hihats were a nice touch and certainly
fitted into the techno
of that time, especially the part of techno, that was not on unspeakable
samplers, which still exist today and poison the minds of unsuspecting young
people. :-)
I did want to avoid using 'stock' sounds.
people. :-) The same goes for sound right at the
beginning, can't really
tell what it is, but it sounds disfigured enough to fit in. Don't get me
Yes I did want disfigured sounds!
wrong, I'm nt totally against it, it takes me
back, yes I listened to that
sort of music occasionally and enjoyed it quite a bit. It's rather
liberating, I suppose I just came in toomuch contact with satirical and
comic writing of late. difficult to get it out of ones system.
The rest of the electro/industry reminiscent sounds in there are also very
good and proper, but I miss some screetching, smoothcing TB303-ish weird
arpeggio sound in there, that makes sure to fill the upper reaches of the
Not all the techno tracks had that. I downloaded around 40 tracks from
youtube, and well, let's just say tb303 was over used imo and techno
doesn't necessarily require one. at least that was the basis i was
working on. not having one and all that. only equipped with yoshimi
here ;-)
frequency spectrum. Either that, or easing up on the
hihats, so they can
tear ones ears to shreads with their high spectra.
Again slight appologies for the tone, but it's an earnest oppinion, at
least if compared to normal techno from the early to mid 90s. Well if the
acid-bit introduces something vital to the genre you were playing with,
excuse me and forget you read this.
No no. I don't really know what I'm talking about either :-)
Kindest regards
Julien
--------
Music was my first love and it will be my last (John Miles)
======== FIND MY WEB-PROJECT AT: ========
http://ltsb.sourceforge.net
the Linux TextBased Studio guide
======= AND MY PERSONAL PAGES AT: =======
http://www.juliencoder.de
17 May
17 May
10:35 a.m.
Hello James1
First of all: I suppose when I mentioned the TB303 for the higher frequency
covering smootchy piercing sounds, I didn't really mean a TB303 sound. Just
some sound, that will take care of damaging you high frequency hearing. Higher
sounds are subjectively louder, or maybe even objectively. They somehow get to
you. And I suppose they just fill the rest of the world, that the bass hasn't
filled, and make you completely live in the music. I suspect, that this is an
important ingredience for good danceable music of that genre. Just my
tuppence.
Kindest regards
Julien
--------
Music was my first love and it will be my last (John Miles)
======== FIND MY WEB-PROJECT AT: ========
http://ltsb.sourceforge.net
the Linux TextBased Studio guide
======= AND MY PERSONAL PAGES AT: =======
http://www.juliencoder.de
4:28 p.m.
On 17 May 2011 09:36, Julien Claassen <julien(a)c-lab.de> wrote:
Hello James1
First of all: I suppose when I mentioned the TB303 for the higher frequency
covering smootchy piercing sounds, I didn't really mean a TB303 sound. Just
some sound, that will take care of damaging you high frequency hearing.
Higher sounds are subjectively louder, or maybe even objectively. They
somehow get to you. And I suppose they just fill the rest of the world, that
the bass hasn't filled, and make you completely live in the music. I
suspect, that this is an important ingredience for good danceable music of
that genre. Just my tuppence.
Kindest regards
Julien
Well Julien, I think I can detect something in your message this time...
Anyway for what it's worth, my relationship with techno and all the
4/4 music that it spawned over the decades (oh no it's plural now) has
always been of the love/hate variety.
What I love about early 90's techno is that it wasn't so easy to
pigeon hole it. The other thing I love about early 90's techno is it
didn't have all those lovey-dovey airy-fairy vapid vocals... nor those
irritating snare build ups.
Best,
James.
4:43 p.m.
In May 17 A.D. 2011 James Morris scripsit:
On 17 May 2011 09:36, Julien Claassen
<julien(a)c-lab.de> wrote:
[...]
What I love about early 90's techno is that it
wasn't so easy to
pigeon hole it. The other thing I love about early 90's techno is it
didn't have all those lovey-dovey airy-fairy vapid vocals... nor those
irritating snare build ups.
Oh true, so true! It could be really ruthless and down to the core.
Kindest regards
Julien
--------
Music was my first love and it will be my last (John Miles)
======== FIND MY WEB-PROJECT AT: ========
http://ltsb.sourceforge.net
the Linux TextBased Studio guide
======= AND MY PERSONAL PAGES AT: =======
http://www.juliencoder.de
5:19 p.m.
What I love about early 90's techno is that it
wasn't so easy to
pigeon hole it. The other thing I love about early 90's techno is it
didn't have all those lovey-dovey airy-fairy vapid vocals... nor those
irritating snare build ups.
No offense, but I'm not sure you know what Techno means. Here is an example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KevUFO2moZI
You are thinking trance I guess.
--
"Cheshire-Puss," she began, "would you tell me, please,
which way I ought to go from here?"
"That depends a good deal on where you want to get to," said the Cat.
"I don't care much where--" said Alice.
"Then it doesn't matter which way you go," said the Cat.
5:29 p.m.
----- "Vytautas Jancauskas" <unaudio(a)gmail.com> wrote:
No offense, but I'm not sure you know what Techno
means. Here is an
I think we write "techno", not "Techno".
On the other hand I'm pretty sure we write "Gabber"...
(and no, I don't put an emoticon, I hate those) (you don't care? I know)
(hell, back to work...) (sorry)
5:41 p.m.
On 17 May 2011 16:19, Vytautas Jancauskas <unaudio(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Yeah but trance sprang from techno and even trance didn't always have
the vapid vocals and snare build ups.
Just for the record I was never sure about any of the following:
techno, trance, goa, house, acid house, hip house, rap, hip hop,
ambient house, acid jazz, intelligent techno, intelligent dance music,
rave, happy hardcore, darkside, drum n bass, jungle... That's about
all I can remember.
What I love
about early 90's techno is that it wasn't so easy to
pigeon hole it. The other thing I love about early 90's techno is it
didn't have all those lovey-dovey airy-fairy vapid vocals... nor those
irritating snare build ups.
No offense, but I'm not sure you know what Techno means. Here is an example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KevUFO2moZI
You are thinking trance I guess. 
5:52 p.m.
On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:41 AM, James Morris <jwm.art.net(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Just for the record I was never sure about any of the
following:
techno, trance, goa, house, acid house, hip house, rap, hip hop,
ambient house, acid jazz, intelligent techno, intelligent dance music,
rave, happy hardcore, darkside, drum n bass, jungle... That's about
all I can remember.
there are at least a dozen more terms for variants of this general
form of music. and to paraphrase something i saw a couple of weeks
ago:
"this is a musical sub-culture that has existed for less than 40
years and yet believes
it necessary to distinguish every nuance of every new pair of
releases by any two
artists with any vague connections to each other, and yet simultaneously feels
comfortable referring to "classical" music ...."
6:03 p.m.
----- "Paul Davis" <paul(a)linuxaudiosystems.com> wrote:
On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:41 AM, James Morris
<jwm.art.net(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
http://qntm.org/genres is fun (the rest of the website too).
He lists 827 genres of music.
Just for the record I was never sure about any of
the following:
techno, trance, goa, house, acid house, hip house, rap, hip hop,
ambient house, acid jazz, intelligent techno, intelligent dance
music,
rave, happy hardcore, darkside, drum n bass,
jungle... That's
about
all I can remember.
there are at least a dozen more terms for variants of this general
form of music. and to paraphrase something i saw a couple of weeks
ago:
"this is a musical sub-culture that has existed for less than 40
years and yet believes
it necessary to distinguish every nuance of every new pair of
releases by any two
artists with any vague connections to each other, and yet
simultaneously feels
comfortable referring to "classical" music ...." 
6:05 p.m.
maybe you already know this page:
http://ishkur.com/
and also this:
http://techno.org/electronic-music-guide/
it's not 100% accurate but it's a very good guide
2011/5/17 James Morris <jwm.art.net(a)gmail.com>om>:
On 17 May 2011 16:19, Vytautas Jancauskas
<unaudio(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Yeah but trance sprang from techno and even trance didn't always have
the vapid vocals and snare build ups.
Just for the record I was never sure about any of the following:
techno, trance, goa, house, acid house, hip house, rap, hip hop,
ambient house, acid jazz, intelligent techno, intelligent dance music,
rave, happy hardcore, darkside, drum n bass, jungle... That's about
all I can remember.
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What I
love about early 90's techno is that it wasn't so easy to
pigeon hole it. The other thing I love about early 90's techno is it
didn't have all those lovey-dovey airy-fairy vapid vocals... nor those
irritating snare build ups.
No offense, but I'm not sure you know what Techno means. Here is an example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KevUFO2moZI
You are thinking trance I guess. 
16 May
16 May
11:14 p.m.
On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 5:48 PM, James Morris <jwm.art.net(a)gmail.com> wrote:
i always prefer the slightly weirder sounds, so of course that's
something i've gone for with this track:
http://jwm-art.net/audio/acid_techno_test1.mp3
but turns out it's not so easy to make this style of music after all!
I liked the track, but it didn't sound very 'acid' to me. Not that I
know that style really well, but from what I've heard elsewhere its
pretty well defined by roland's analog TB303 and their clones, ie its
single VCO OSC, lot of resonance and a step sequencer. I didn't hear
that in the track, though to be honest I don't have a 303 or clones.
17 May
17 May
12:09 a.m.
On 16 May 2011 21:48, James Morris <jwm.art.net(a)gmail.com> wrote:
i always prefer the slightly weirder sounds, so of
course that's
something i've gone for with this track:
http://jwm-art.net/audio/acid_techno_test1.mp3
The sounds are quite authentic, I think. The kick might not seem very
techno these days but it's quite appropriate for the time and genre.
("Acid"-anything tended to mean lots of 303 in it, but that detail
aside, the samples and general tone are plausible enough for the sort
of thing you might have found in the techno room at Club UK
[http://history-is-made-at-night.blogspot.com/2009/02/club-uk-in-wandsworth-…,
nice article])
The main problem I have is that that snare noise is far too
four-square, bash bash bash bash, to be so far forward in the mix,
particularly nearer the start. It's just too much.
And of course the whole thing is too short.
Chris
12:37 a.m.
On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 11:09 PM, Chris Cannam
<cannam(a)all-day-breakfast.com> wrote:
On 16 May 2011 21:48, James Morris
<jwm.art.net(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Yeh... great track! :)
It sounds pretty 90's techno to me.. And I think the speed is about
right for 92-93.. Things only pushed 140 in the late 90s IIRC unless
we are talking DnB.
Reminds me of dancing at the Velvet Underground to Carl Cox around that time..
Only things I would say is the bass drum should be a bit harder -
sounds a bit flabby to me, and the hi-hat/snare sound is a bit
overpowering - things were generally a bit tighter I think - less
reverby.. although it does give the impression of actually being in a
club! All the fx are fantastic.. maybe a bit more than was possible at
the time tho?
And vastly too short!
James
i always prefer the slightly weirder sounds, so
of course that's
something i've gone for with this track:
http://jwm-art.net/audio/acid_techno_test1.mp3
The sounds are quite authentic, I think. The kick might not seem very
techno these days but it's quite appropriate for the time and genre.
("Acid"-anything tended to mean lots of 303 in it, but that detail
aside, the samples and general tone are plausible enough for the sort
of thing you might have found in the techno room at Club UK
[http://history-is-made-at-night.blogspot.com/2009/02/club-uk-in-wandsworth-…,
nice article])
The main problem I have is that that snare noise is far too
four-square, bash bash bash bash, to be so far forward in the mix,
particularly nearer the start. It's just too much.
And of course the whole thing is too short.
12:43 a.m.
On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 11:37 PM, James Stone <jamesmstone(a)gmail.com> wrote:
It sounds pretty 90's techno to me.. And I think
the speed is about
right for 92-93.. Things only pushed 140 in the late 90s IIRC unless
we are talking DnB.
Ha! shows how bad my memory is - just did a quick search for some
93-94 techno mixes and they are all 130-140+! :)
I guess it must be 89-90 when we were stuck at 120!
J
1:54 a.m.
I really liked this track, I don't know if I would call it "acid" per
se but it has an acid dose on it
When I was younger than today I thought that old skool techno acid
songs were pretty primitives and therefore, easy to reproduce using
modern sw drum machines and synths, but I realized that those songs
were -and I'm talking about specifically the drums- actually very hard
to implement (at least were pretty hard to me)
That kind of hardness is what I like more and what I miss from today.
Anyway, really nice track
It will be very nice if you can describe what apps/sw/hw were used to
compose this track
Thank you
Diego
2011/5/16 James Morris <jwm.art.net(a)gmail.com>om>:
hi,
i've been listening to (for nostalgia) a bit of acid/techno from
around 1993/4/5/6 over the past few days. it seemed so simple, and
there seemed so much similarity between the tracks that i mistakenly
thought it would be easy to come up with something which paid homage
in spirit to the techno of those days, while also adding some more
modern twists.
i always prefer the slightly weirder sounds, so of course that's
something i've gone for with this track:
http://jwm-art.net/audio/acid_techno_test1.mp3
but turns out it's not so easy to make this style of music after all!
i've not made any tracks for a while, but it seems i still have a
tendency to manipulate sound using lots of "am pitchshifters".
don't know if i'll do anything else to this or not, not sure it's
worth it at the moment. just thought i'd share to see what others
(being those who like techno etc) thought.
james.
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http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
4:35 p.m.
On 17 May 2011 00:53, Diego Simak <diego.simak(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I really liked this track, I don't know if I would
call it "acid" per
se but it has an acid dose on it
When I was younger than today I thought that old skool techno acid
songs were pretty primitives and therefore, easy to reproduce using
modern sw drum machines and synths, but I realized that those songs
were -and I'm talking about specifically the drums- actually very hard
to implement (at least were pretty hard to me)
That kind of hardness is what I like more and what I miss from today.
Yes, I miss that too.
Anyway, really nice track
It will be very nice if you can describe what apps/sw/hw were used to
compose this track
Thanks. No hardware other than AMD64 PC with delta66 sound card, arch
linux, yoshimi, seq24, hydrogen, ardour, and plugins.
I've spent most of the past year programming and took some sounds from
half-started ardour sessions. It was all a bit sketchy. The 'acid'
sequence uses yoshimi and was a single bar loop in seq24 which was
deleted as soon as I got it down in time machine. Tweaked yoshimi
params while recording. Almost all the audio tracks in ardour have at
least one AM Pitch Shifter plugin. One uses a second to almost cancel
the effect of the first out, while other plugins process audio in
between. That's one of my favourite tricks for some time now.
-----
Also thanks to others who have responded here. It was a surprise to
see positive comments! I was expecting a bit of a beating after the
first two responses :-)
I'm gonna have another go at this track, it needs to be longer as
Chris mentioned, and more bass as Julien so kindly mentioned :-)
James.
Thank you
Diego
2011/5/16 James Morris <jwm.art.net(a)gmail.com>om>:
hi,
i've been listening to (for nostalgia) a bit of acid/techno from
around 1993/4/5/6 over the past few days. it seemed so simple, and
there seemed so much similarity between the tracks that i mistakenly
thought it would be easy to come up with something which paid homage
in spirit to the techno of those days, while also adding some more
modern twists.
i always prefer the slightly weirder sounds, so of course that's
something i've gone for with this track:
http://jwm-art.net/audio/acid_techno_test1.mp3
but turns out it's not so easy to make this style of music after all!
i've not made any tracks for a while, but it seems i still have a
tendency to manipulate sound using lots of "am pitchshifters".
don't know if i'll do anything else to this or not, not sure it's
worth it at the moment. just thought i'd share to see what others
(being those who like techno etc) thought.
james.
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
8:24 a.m.
On 05/16/2011 10:48 PM, James Morris wrote:
Nice track, I agree that a TB303 could be in there, but also that it's a
bit overused so I don't really miss it. Two things:
1) BD. I think you should avoid any fx on the bassdrumm, find a good,
kicking 909-ish kick and stick with that.
2) I agree with Chris that it's too short. You might need a few more
things in there to keep the listeners (dancers) attention, but closer to
10 minutes wouldn't hurt :-)
--
Atte
http://atte.dk http://modlys.dk
10:39 a.m.
Hello Atte1
Well as that was a first experiment, I suppose that was the night-time radio
edit or the new-kids beginngers version, since their attention span seem to
shorten all the time. :-)
Sorry, nonsense post I know....
Warm regards
Julien
--------
Music was my first love and it will be my last (John Miles)
======== FIND MY WEB-PROJECT AT: ========
http://ltsb.sourceforge.net
the Linux TextBased Studio guide
======= AND MY PERSONAL PAGES AT: =======
http://www.juliencoder.de
10:28 a.m.
Hi,
On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 09:48:03PM +0100, James Morris wrote:
i've been listening to (for nostalgia) a bit of
acid/techno from
around 1993/4/5/6 over the past few days. it seemed so simple, and
there seemed so much similarity between the tracks that i mistakenly
thought it would be easy to come up with something which paid homage
in spirit to the techno of those days, while also adding some more
modern twists.
i always prefer the slightly weirder sounds, so of course that's
something i've gone for with this track:
http://jwm-art.net/audio/acid_techno_test1.mp3
but turns out it's not so easy to make this style of music after all!
Cute track!
Maybe you also want to check out Chris McCormick's GarageAcidLab. It's a Pure
Data patch that alorithmically generates an endless stream of Acid House.
Check it out here: http://mccormick.cx/projects/GarageAcidLab/
It also works on Android and inside of RjDj for iOS.
This is how it sounds: http://sciencegirlrecords.com/chr15m/squeakyshoecore/
Ciao
--
Frank Barknecht Do You RjDj.me? _ ______footils.org__
10:36 a.m.
----- "Frank Barknecht" <fbar(a)footils.org> wrote:
This is how it sounds:
http://sciencegirlrecords.com/chr15m/squeakyshoecore/
flash website, but looking at the source, we extract:
http://www.archive.org/download/squeakyshoecore/01-sonoluminescence.mp3
http://www.archive.org/download/squeakyshoecore/02-cryptocerus.mp3
http://www.archive.org/download/squeakyshoecore/03-sideband-attack.mp3
http://www.archive.org/download/squeakyshoecore/04-hilbert-curve.mp3
http://www.archive.org/download/squeakyshoecore/05-sphereflake.mp3
http://www.archive.org/download/squeakyshoecore/06-oval-ba.mp3
http://www.archive.org/download/squeakyshoecore/07-ring-singularity.mp3
http://www.archive.org/download/squeakyshoecore/08-prolate-spheroid.mp3
Can't you people stop bothering everyone with flash crap?
10:36 a.m.
slightly offtopic but acid!
nice artwork done by freeman/lowe 2009
http://www.deitch.com/projects/sub.php?projId=284
blackacidcoop,
;)
m
--
firstfloor.org/ae
5F9D 9602 8938 CB7D 5751 2491 2C90 98B7 362D CF78
4941
days inactive
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days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
23 comments
12 participants
participants (12)
-
Atte André Jensen -
Cedric Roux -
Chris Cannam -
Diego Simak -
Frank Barknecht -
James Morris -
James Stone -
Julien Claassen -
maex＠firstfloor.org -
Paul Davis -
robert lazarski -
Vytautas Jancauskas