26 Dec
2014
26 Dec
'14
12:13 a.m.
Hello all,
Merry Christmas and (soon) happy new year!
I was wondering if you guys would have a few advice for graphic card?
My laptop blew up a few days ago, so I'm building a pc to replace it
(haven't done that in years) - I'm not a gamer, the only things me and my
wife are doing are music production and photo editing, only running Linux.
Any advice between Radeon or GeForce? Which driver is good and doesn't
disturb Jack or audio latency?
Thanks in advance,
Aurélien
26 Dec
26 Dec
3:34 a.m.
On Thu, 25 Dec 2014, Aur?lien Leblond wrote:
I was wondering if you guys would have a few advice
for graphic card?
My laptop blew up a few days ago, so I'm building a pc to replace it
(haven't done that in years) - I'm not a gamer, the only things me and
my wife are doing are music production and photo editing, only running
Linux.
Any advice between Radeon or GeForce? Which driver is good and doesn't
disturb Jack or audio latency?
I run the free radeon driver from X.org. I've heard all the arguments
about how the nVidia closed drivers have better performance, but they
have a bad history of interfering with realtime in the past, the kernel
developers hate them, and I don't like binary mystery code that runs as
root from anybody.
The free radeon drivers have been getting better all the time.
--
+ Brent A. Busby + "We've all heard that a million monkeys
+ Sr. UNIX Systems Admin + banging on a million typewriters will
+ University of Chicago + eventually reproduce the entire works of
+ James Franck Institute + Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet,
+ Materials Research Ctr + we know this is not true." -Robert Wilensky
4:21 a.m.
In last 12 months, I've replaced a laptop and a desktop. In both cases, got Intel and
use the stock Intel video hardware. Plenty fast enough, no interference with realtime.
Switched from old Intel (laptop) and Radeon (desktop).
David W. Jones
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://dancingtreefrog.com
---- Brent Busby <brent(a)keycorner.org> wrote:
On Thu, 25 Dec 2014, Aur?lien Leblond wrote:
I was wondering if you guys would have a few
advice for graphic card?
My laptop blew up a few days ago, so I'm building a pc to replace it
(haven't done that in years) - I'm not a gamer, the only things me and
my wife are doing are music production and photo editing, only running
Linux.
Any advice between Radeon or GeForce? Which driver is good and doesn't
disturb Jack or audio latency?
I run the free radeon driver from X.org. I've heard all the arguments
about how the nVidia closed drivers have better performance, but they
have a bad history of interfering with realtime in the past, the kernel
developers hate them, and I don't like binary mystery code that runs as
root from anybody.
The free radeon drivers have been getting better all the time.
--
+ Brent A. Busby + "We've all heard that a million monkeys
+ Sr. UNIX Systems Admin + banging on a million typewriters will
+ University of Chicago + eventually reproduce the entire works of
+ James Franck Institute + Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet,
+ Materials Research Ctr + we know this is not true." -Robert Wilensky
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user 
5:08 a.m.
On 12/26/2014 12:13 AM, Aurélien Leblond wrote:
Hello all,
Merry Christmas and (soon) happy new year!
I was wondering if you guys would have a few advice for graphic card?
My laptop blew up a few days ago, so I'm building a pc to replace it
(haven't done that in years) - I'm not a gamer, the only things me and my
wife are doing are music production and photo editing, only running Linux.
Any advice between Radeon or GeForce? Which driver is good and doesn't
disturb Jack or audio latency?
Thanks in advance,
Aurélien
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
My advice is to save the money and don't buy a additional graphics card
yet. That way you get less power consumption, better reliability (one
component less, that can fail or grab the IRQ of your soundcard)
The integrated graphics stuff these days is more than enough for the use
cases you named, the only deal breaker may be the number of ouputs the
board offers for your screens without a dedicated graphics card.
Also, if one day, the time has come that your use case changes and you
really need an additional card, you can still buy one.
I had good experiences with the intel onboard solutions, they worked out
of the box (tested on debian, fedora and centos), and offer surprisingly
good performance. I don't know about AMD on the other hand, never tested
them in the last 10 years...
TL;DR
* use the onboard solutions, they are good enough
* check how many display ports are supported before spending money on them
* if they are not good enough, you can still buy a graphics card after
testing
6:37 a.m.
On Thu, 25 Dec 2014, Aurélien Leblond wrote:
I was wondering if you guys would have a few advice
for graphic card?
My laptop blew up a few days ago, so I'm building a pc to replace it (haven't
done that in years) - I'm
not a gamer, the only things me and my wife are doing are music production and photo
editing, only
running Linux.
Any advice between Radeon or GeForce? Which driver is good and doesn't disturb Jack
or audio latency?
Almost all intel based MB come with onboard video with at least two and
sometimes three outputs. I have not noticed any performance issues in
graphics and have been able to have stable (no xruns) jack at 16/2 with
two video outputs in use. (ICE1712 Audio card, i5 with 4 cores... I had to
look to make sure I got PCI slots)
My older P4 with the gforce has been no problem either, but it is 10+
years old and probably not a good yardstick for a new build. I would never
have considered it's video performance as great, but CPU limitations may
have been a part of that too. The cost of monitors ($90 at walmart) is low
enough to make two monitors worth while for things like ardour or gimp.
--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net
9:26 a.m.
On 12/25/2014 03:13 PM, Aurélien Leblond wrote:
I was wondering if you guys would have a few advice
for graphic card?
My laptop blew up a few days ago, so I'm building a pc to replace it
(haven't done that in years) - I'm not a gamer, the only things me and my
wife are doing are music production and photo editing, only running Linux.
I also prefer the Intel processors with built-in video (Intel HD
Graphics). But beware:
1. Some chips (Atom?) have proprietary graphics without Linux support.
2. The newest chips require the newest kernel, X, and/or Intel graphics
driver, which might not be found in "stable" distributions.
Be sure to research the exact chip and FOSS distribution before you
purchase.
HTH,
David
3:58 p.m.
IIUC you don't need the proprietary driver. Assumed you should need it,
then NVIDIA is better than ATI, since ATI's proprietary drivers only
work for a few versions of X and they drop older cards for drivers that
work with latest versions of X. NIVIDA's proprietary driver supports old
cards with latest X versions. If you just need the FLOSS driver, in my
experiences both, the radeon and the nouveau have good 3D support for
usage with Google-Earth, but for using GNOME3/Cinnamon at least my
cards are too slow.
9:14 p.m.
On 12/25/2014 10:26 PM, David Christensen wrote:
On 12/25/2014 03:13 PM, Aurélien Leblond wrote:
There's no point in getting anything Atom-based for a desktop PC. They
don't have the horsepower. Although the graphics chipset in my wife's
Atom-based netbook works just fine with Ubuntu.
My desktop replacement laptop has a 4th-gen Haswell i7. Video works
fine. I'm using 64-bit Aptosid, which is currently in a weird between
state compared to Debian Sid. Sid has switched to systemd, but Aptosid
has not. So on my laptop, powering off requires logging in as root and
using the shutdown command. The other distro running on it is what it
came with, Ubuntu. The video worked fine with Ubuntu 12.04 LTS. I
dist-upgraded that to Ubuntu 14.04 LTS, and the video works fine. Power
management also works fine on Ubuntu.
Debian has pretty much caught up with the HD4600 (Haswell) graphics of
current Intel, so I think there's not so much to worry about.
--
David W. Jones
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://dancingtreefrog.com
I was wondering if you guys would have a few
advice for graphic card?
My laptop blew up a few days ago, so I'm building a pc to replace it
(haven't done that in years) - I'm not a gamer, the only things me and my
wife are doing are music production and photo editing, only running
Linux.
I also prefer the Intel processors with built-in video (Intel HD
Graphics). But beware:
1. Some chips (Atom?) have proprietary graphics without Linux support.
2. The newest chips require the newest kernel, X, and/or Intel graphics
driver, which might not be found in "stable" distributions.
Be sure to research the exact chip and FOSS distribution before you
purchase.
10:03 p.m.
On Fri, 26 Dec 2014, david wrote:
There's no point in getting anything Atom-based
for a desktop PC. They
don't have the horsepower. Although the graphics chipset in my wife's
Atom-based netbook works just fine with Ubuntu.
While the newest atoms have yet another graphics set that may be supported
natively... the old ones that most people have, do not. Yes they work fine
with a LED panel, but with the external display, the lcd video never goes
away and there is some tweaking needed to get a higher rez monitor to work
at it's higher rez. The short coming of the current drivers for the
graphics for the Atom show up when trying to do things like run a you tube
video in full screen. It is not the CPU that lacks the HP but the
graphics driver doesn't support the GPU which should do the resize job,
leaving it for the cpu. I am currently using one (64bit) as a desktop and
it does low latency audio well with no xruns. It is quiet (no fan) uses
less power and other than the gpu trouble a nice package. The one I have
will end up in a headless use (server as my current one is 32 bit and my
distro is phasing out maintenance of 32 bit kernels). The Atom is designed
for two things: netbook/tablet and low power/cost server. It does both of
those things really well. I would have no problem recomending it as a
fanless, headless stage box with the right interface. They are available
up to 8 cores and probably make a better server than an i3/5/7 series chip
as well.
But I agree, they are not suited to desktop use.
--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net
3 Jan
3 Jan
11:10 a.m.
On 12/26/14 12:59, Len Ovens wrote:
But I agree, they are not suited to desktop use.
As a counterpoint, I'm using a board with a Celeron J1900 in my studio
presently. Admittedly for broadcast talk radio, so my requirements
might not be as large as yours. If I remember properly, the J1900 is
a quad core processor based off of the atom (silvermont) processors.
In my case, I'm better served by a larger number of smaller horses than
a couple large ones. I needed two monitors, so the on-board video
wasn't adequate. I went with an radeon HD5350 running the open source
drivers to simplify working with an rt kernel.
The upside is with the passively-cooled motherboard and video card, a
DC-DC power supply, and an SSD, I've got a fanless computer, so one less
(admittedly minor) thing to worry about.
-Sam
28 Dec
28 Dec
3:24 p.m.
Le 26 déc. 2014 à 09:26, David Christensen <dpchrist(a)holgerdanske.com> a écrit :
1. Some chips (Atom?) have proprietary graphics
without Linux support.
I have two Intel D525MW Atom based boards running Archlinux, video driver is working
perfectly out of the box.
I use those board to do realtime audio using linux sampler and RME PCI audiocard, it does
an excellent job.
3:53 p.m.
On Sunday 28 December 2014 09:24:29 Raphaël Mouneyres did opine
And Gene did reply:
I can duplicate that story with 2 of them, running the 10.04.4 LTS Ubuntu
linux server edition, with a special rtai patched realtime kernel, running
a lathe and a milling machine. Some folks would call that dangerous
machinery. But the on board i915 video works flawlessly, and quite a bit
faster than VESA. These are machines that would get retired or the job
offloaded to a $90 specialty card if the IRQ latency ever went above 5
microseconds. More usual measurement is 2 microseconds. For this bit of
critical usage, all one can say about them is that they Just Work(TM).
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS
Le 26 déc. 2014 à 09:26, David Christensen
<dpchrist(a)holgerdanske.com> a
écrit :
1. Some chips
(Atom?) have proprietary graphics without Linux
support.
I have two Intel D525MW Atom based boards running Archlinux, video
driver is working perfectly out of the box. I use those board to do
realtime audio using linux sampler and RME PCI audiocard, it does an
excellent job.
6:53 p.m.
On Sun, 28 Dec 2014, Gene Heskett wrote:
On Sunday 28 December 2014 09:24:29 Raphaël Mouneyres
did opine
And Gene did reply:
I can duplicate that story with 2 of them, running the 10.04.4 LTS Ubuntu
linux server edition, with a special rtai patched realtime kernel, running
a lathe and a milling machine. Some folks would call that dangerous
machinery. But the on board i915 video works flawlessly, and quite a bit
faster than VESA. These are machines that would get retired or the job
offloaded to a $90 specialty card if the IRQ latency ever went above 5
microseconds. More usual measurement is 2 microseconds. For this bit of
critical usage, all one can say about them is that they Just Work(TM).
Certainly the video "works" OOTB with these boards. there is nothing that
just doesn't display or anything like that. It is just that linux (and
newer windows) doesn't use the full ability of the GPU. This, in some
applications, makes the whole board look slower than it acually is because
the CPU has to take over the GPU's job for some things. There are many
applications where the graphics are not that critical such as running
Ardour and friends that do not show any problem with the video at all. On
mine the memory is limited to 4G and the netbook is 2G which might in some
cases be a problem (I find 1G too small and 2G ok). The word "desktop" to
me means running more than just audio apps and the GPU/drivers seem to
fail in that context (that is use too much CPU for smooth, up to speed video).
There was one or two kernels that did have a full driver (from Intel) and
10.04 may have been when (sounds about right to me). So using a
distro/kernel of that age may work better. My comments are based on 14.04.
However, I will agree that these are a very good low latency/RT machine.
Even running Kubuntu with the lowlatency kernel allows me no xruns as low
as the audio IF will work. The video might be slow, but the audio just
works.
--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net
Le 26 déc. 2014 à 09:26, David Christensen
<dpchrist(a)holgerdanske.com> a
écrit :
1. Some
chips (Atom?) have proprietary graphics without Linux
support.
I have two Intel D525MW Atom based boards running Archlinux, video
driver is working perfectly out of the box. I use those board to do
realtime audio using linux sampler and RME PCI audiocard, it does an
excellent job.
8:31 p.m.
On 12/28/2014 06:24 AM, Raphaël Mouneyres wrote:
Le 26 déc. 2014 à 09:26, David Christensen
<dpchrist(a)holgerdanske.com> a écrit :
Yes, that's an older atom board that I remember looking at (first dual
core?). I seem to recall that it has pre- Intel HD Graphics, and should
be well supported by FOSS operating systems.
A more recent Atom board that caught my eye has a dual core CPU and dual
Gigabit ports:
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/motherboards/desktop-motherboards/de…
I wanted to use these for silent SFF thin clients, infrastructure
micro-servers, firewall/ routers, etc.. But, then I researched the
graphics -- Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator 3600 Graphics Controller
(p. 17):
http://downloadmirror.intel.com/20718/eng/D2500CC_TechProdSpec08.pdf
The graphics core is proprietary PowerVR SGX545:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_GMA#GMA_3600
At the time, there was no FOSS support, so I dropped the idea.
Intel has since released a FOSS driver:
https://downloadcenter.intel.com/Detail_Desc.aspx?agr=Y&DwnldID=21938
But, it is not well supported:
http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/126818/how-to-install-drivers-for-i…
https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/intel-3600-powervr.38791/
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Intel_GMA3600
Currently, I would be interested in an Intel NUC with dual Gigabit; but
they don't make one AFAIK.
HTH,
David
1. Some chips (Atom?) have proprietary graphics
without Linux support.
I have two Intel D525MW Atom based boards running Archlinux,
video driver is working perfectly out of the box.
I use those board to do realtime audio using linux sampler and RME PCI audiocard, it does
an excellent job. 
26 Dec
26 Dec
8:12 p.m.
On Thu, 25 Dec 2014 23:13:38 +0000
Aurélien Leblond <blablack(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hello all,
Merry Christmas and (soon) happy new year!
I was wondering if you guys would have a few advice for graphic card?
My laptop blew up a few days ago, so I'm building a pc to replace it
(haven't done that in years) - I'm not a gamer, the only things me
and my wife are doing are music production and photo editing, only
running Linux.
Any advice between Radeon or GeForce? Which driver is good and doesn't
disturb Jack or audio latency?
Thanks in advance,
Aurélien
I too use the onboard intel graphics (HD3000 in my case). The
performance may be 3 years or so behind nvidia, but it is good enough,
even for most not too recent games. There is no need to mess around
with proprietary drivers and stuff like that, it pretty much just works.
However, there seem to be some bugs around, for example this one hits
me (and many other people, have a look at the long list of duplicates)
from time to time, is quite long standing and as of yet unresolved:
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=54226
The intel graphics world isn't perfect either.
Regards,
Philipp
27 Dec
27 Dec
8:34 a.m.
On 12/26/2014 11:12 AM, Philipp Überbacher wrote:
However, there seem to be some bugs around, for
example this one hits
me (and many other people, have a look at the long list of duplicates)
from time to time, is quite long standing and as of yet unresolved:
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=54226
What motherboard, chipset, kernel, and operating system distribution do
you have?
David
11:18 a.m.
On Fri, 26 Dec 2014 23:34:41 -0800
David Christensen <dpchrist(a)holgerdanske.com> wrote:
On 12/26/2014 11:12 AM, Philipp Überbacher wrote:
Hi David,
according to lshw:
the motherboard is a Lenovo 78595VG,
for chipset I found Intel 6 Series/C200 Series Chipset Family,
kernel is atm. 3.17.6 from Arch Linux, but this issue is present since
many months/kernel versions. My duplicate report is from June 2014, but
the reports go back to August 2012.
Regards,
Philipp
However, there seem to be some bugs around, for
example this one
hits me (and many other people, have a look at the long list of
duplicates) from time to time, is quite long standing and as of yet
unresolved: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=54226
What motherboard, chipset, kernel, and operating system distribution
do you have?
David
3408
days inactive
3417
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
16 comments
12 participants
participants (12)
-
Aurélien Leblond -
Brent Busby -
david -
David Christensen -
Gene Heskett -
gnome＠hawaii.rr.com
-
Len Ovens -
Markus Seeber -
Philipp Überbacher -
Ralf Mardorf -
Raphaël Mouneyres -
Sam Mulvey