11 Dec
2017
11 Dec
'17
1:32 a.m.
Hello,
I got speaker stands from the Yamaha HS5 powered speakers. So they are
at ear level on each side of the desk. This results in hearing the
music not as it comes from the speakers, but directly from the center
of the monitor. Which is nice. One would think the audio comes from
the monitor. To this the HS8 subwoofer sits on the ground under the
desk to the left. To the left is also some 12x12 audio foam tacked
to the wall, for guitar recording. The problem with this is that when a
track is panned completely to one side only its volume decreases. The
audio of that track does not move to the side. I have to use the
headphones many times in the mixing to get the stereo imaging. Which
is OK, as I like to get the headphones point of hearing, but it'd be
nice to hear the stereo effect through the speakers also.
Any advice on how to use speakers so that it's possible to hear the
stereo imaging ?
Cheers.
11 Dec
11 Dec
1:44 a.m.
Dec 11 2017, jonetsu has written:
...
Any advice on how to use speakers so that it's
possible to hear the
stereo imaging ?
Only standard advice. Not sure how much influence the foam has,
probably
depends on where it is exactly. The, typical, ultimate position for your
speakers, is at a point where your head and the speakers form an
equalateral triangle (if I'm not mistaken), the speakers pointing
towards your ears in a straight line. -- I'd suggest a) removing the
foam for testing or b) temporarily putting some foam to on the opposite
side, roughly mirroring the position of the current damping. But since
that can be work-intensive and possibly expensive or distructive, rather
wait for better educated input...
Best of luck and goodnight,
Jeanette
...
--------
* website: http://juliencoder.de - for summer is a state of sound
* SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/jeanette_c
... About some useless information,
Supposed to fire my imagination <3
(Britney Spears)
1:51 a.m.
On Mon, 11 Dec 2017 01:44:13 +0100 (CET)
"Jeanette C." <julien(a)mail.upb.de> wrote:
Only standard advice. Not sure how much influence the
foam has,
probably depends on where it is exactly.
Nah, this also happened before the foam panels were put. The triangle
is observed. I even move back and forth with the office chair to
test. This is something I do not understand. I start to think that
the speakers should be at a certain distance, not right by the desk.
Studios have speakers at a certain distance, like near each end of a
large console.
1:55 a.m.
Dec 11 2017, jonetsu has written:
...
Studios have speakers at a certain distance, like near
each end of a
large console.
I believe some distance has to be observed. Not sure about the
exact
optimum suggested range, but somewhere between two and three meters
should work. Does for me. A friend, who adjusted them for me once, was
more or less satisfied with the arrangement, but I can't remember if he
recommended them a little more apart or together. Also, optimally,
speakers shouldn't be directly backed up to the wall or at least some
foam placed behind them.
Best wishes,
Jeanette
--------
* website: http://juliencoder.de - for summer is a state of sound
* SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/jeanette_c
... About some useless information,
Supposed to fire my imagination <3
(Britney Spears)
1:59 a.m.
Are you 100% sure that your internal routing is correct? If you turn one
of the speakers off does it still sound like the sound is centered?
2:12 a.m.
On Sun, 10 Dec 2017 19:59:18 -0500
Robert Edge <thumbknucklerocks(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Are you 100% sure that your internal routing is
correct? If you turn
one of the speakers off does it still sound like the sound is
centered?
Thanks for the test. Yes, with one speaker switched off, the sound
comes fully from the other side. I start to wonder if distance does
something. I might try putting the speaker stands like 7 feet behind
the desk instead of right beside it.
8:53 p.m.
On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 08:12:56PM -0500, jonetsu wrote:
Thanks for the test. Yes, with one speaker switched
off, the sound
comes fully from the other side. I start to wonder if distance does
something. I might try putting the speaker stands like 7 feet behind
the desk instead of right beside it.
That means it's not the speaker postions or anything acoustic that
is the cause of your problem. Mostly likely there is something wrong
with the soundcard mixer settings or the wiring.
Just 'work back' from the the speakers. What happens if you send
a signal to a single speaker in software (e.g. by only connecting
the L or R signal in Jack) ?
Ciao,
--
FA
A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia.
It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris
and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow)
10:23 a.m.
jonetsu <jonetsu-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w(a)public.gmane.org> writes:
Hello,
I got speaker stands from the Yamaha HS5 powered speakers. So they are
at ear level on each side of the desk. This results in hearing the
music not as it comes from the speakers, but directly from the center
of the monitor. Which is nice. One would think the audio comes from
the monitor. To this the HS8 subwoofer sits on the ground under the
desk to the left. To the left is also some 12x12 audio foam tacked
to the wall, for guitar recording. The problem with this is that when a
track is panned completely to one side only its volume decreases. The
audio of that track does not move to the side. I have to use the
headphones many times in the mixing to get the stereo imaging. Which
is OK, as I like to get the headphones point of hearing, but it'd be
nice to hear the stereo effect through the speakers also.
Any advice on how to use speakers so that it's possible to hear the
stereo imaging ?
Uh, there are two ways to pan, basically. By volume and by phase. For
headphones, phase is more relevant than for speakers but you usually use
both or even just volume. If you cannot hear a difference when panning
completely to one side, your speakers are likely not connected as stereo
but both provide the same mono mix. How about fixing that?
--
David Kastrup
10:46 a.m.
Hi,
On 11/12/17 01:32, jonetsu wrote:
Hello,
I got speaker stands from the Yamaha HS5 powered speakers.
[...]
The problem with this is that when a
track is panned completely to one side only its volume decreases. The
audio of that track does not move to the side.
How is it being 'panned'? The decrease in volume might be expected or
not depending on the way it is being panned (see [1] and e.g. for Ardour
[2])
The fact that the audio is not 'moving' to the side doesn't seem normal.
What effect does running this produce (attention loud white noise, turn
down master volume!!)?
speaker-test -c 2
Again there could be many reasons. Firstly I would check routing/cabling
(both analogue and digital) to make sure the stereo path is correct
(mono switch somewhere? flimsy/loose stereo jack/input? JACK incorrectly
connected?...?). :)
Lorenzo.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_law
[2] https://community.ardour.org/node/2835 and
http://www.tracker.ardour.org/view.php?id=6303&history=1
5:46 p.m.
On Sun, December 10, 2017 6:32 pm, jonetsu wrote:
track is panned completely to one side only its volume
decreases.
Seems likely a routing problem, either within the software or the physical
wiring.
Does either the software routing (inside Ardour or jackd) change or the
physical wiring change when switching from speakers to headphones? From
the description I would say that both speaker channels are driven from one
soundcard channel.
--
Chris Caudle
18 Dec
18 Dec
4:59 p.m.
On Sun, 10 Dec 2017 19:32:39 -0500
jonetsu <jonetsu(a)teksavvy.com> wrote:
Any advice on how to use speakers so that it's
possible to hear the
stereo imaging ?
First of all, thanks for all the replies - much appreciated !
The case is solved. The resolution is in the 3rd last paragraph below.
I took notes with the testing procedure and am sharing this as a
reference, if anyone searches this topic later on. If ever :)
The hardware wiring goes like this.
The 1 and 2 line outs of the 1010LT card are going into the HS8
subwoofer. From the HS8 a XLR cable goes to one HS5 speaker and
another XLR cable goes to th other HS5 speaker.
The physical hardware volumes knobs on both HS5 are set the same.
I use Bitwig with one only track in which a continuous
single-oscillator 'init' synth sound is played. The master stereo
output of Bitwig is defined as 'Speakers-R' and 'Speakers-L' and is
assigned to system playback 1 and 2 respectively.
I use qjackctl to switch on/off the Bitwig stereo out for playback 1
and 2.
Playbacks 1 and 2 are connected by default to Bitwig's master stereo
Speakers output. The sound is heard.
Using qjackctl both outputs from Bitwig are disconnected from the
playback inputs. No sound is heard.
I throw the panning knob of both the track and the master to the left.
No sound is heard. I connect Speakers-R to playback 2. No sound is
heard. This is all OK so far since the sound should be total left.
I disconnect Speakers-R from playback 2 and connect Speakers-L to
playback 1.
Problem: the sound is clearly heard in both speakers. Even though the
pan is full left on both track and master.
All right ! Found it. Using Envy24 control app, I see in the
Patchbay/Router tab that H/W Out 1 and 2 were directed to 'Digital Mix
1' and 'Digital Mix 2'. I set them instead to 'PCM out 1' and
'PCM
out 2' and the sound is then only heard on the left, as it should be.
Disconnecting playback left and connecting playback right confirmed
this. Then throwing the panning to the right confirmed this also.
This is great ! The stereo sound through those HS speakers is really
nice. More to the point, the stereo pad sounds from a couple of Repro-5
polyphonic emulations of the a Sequential Circuits synth.
Cheers.
5:46 p.m.
New subject: recommendations for output-only audio devices
I'm currently building a church organ, using the GrandOrgue program to
handle the software
side of things. I'm looking for recommendations for a output device
which can handle 8 (or more)
outputs. There is no requirement for audio inputs, but that shouldn't
rule out devices with
inputs, they simply won't be used. Most of the discussions I've seen on
this list seem to be
more geared to multiple inputs rather than outputs.
I'm thinking in terms of a USB device, as most of the internal sound
cards seem to be
limited to 5 outputs. Cost is a factor, but reasonable sound quality is
required.
Anyone have any suggestions?
Thanks in advance,
Bill
--
+----------------------------------------+
| Bill Purvis |
| email: bill(a)billp.org |
+----------------------------------------+
6:08 p.m.
New subject: recommendations for output-only audio devices
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 16:46:14 +0000
Bill Purvis <bill(a)billp.org> wrote:
I'm currently building a church organ, using the
GrandOrgue program to
handle the software
side of things. I'm looking for recommendations for a output device
which can handle 8 (or more)
outputs. There is no requirement for audio inputs, but that shouldn't
rule out devices with
inputs, they simply won't be used. Most of the discussions I've seen on
this list seem to be
more geared to multiple inputs rather than outputs.
I'm thinking in terms of a USB device, as most of the internal sound
cards seem to be
limited to 5 outputs. Cost is a factor, but reasonable sound quality is
required.
Anyone have any suggestions?
Thanks in advance,
Bill
Pardon my ignorance, but why do you need so many outputs?
--
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.
10:49 p.m.
New subject: recommendations for output-only audio devices
On 18/12/17 17:08, Will Godfrey wrote:
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 16:46:14 +0000
Bill Purvis <bill(a)billp.org> wrote:
The organ has
three manuals, plus a pedal board. The organist currently
says he wants three pair of
speakers - front, middle and back, and a big woofer in the centre! The
software supports an arbitrary
number of output channels, each with the option of a swell pedal to vary
the volumes. I'm currently
budgeting for 4 stereo amps to drive it all! It started out with only
two manuals, but it doesn't
cost much to add a third manual, the big problem is fitting it all into
the existing case!
Bill
--
+----------------------------------------+
| Bill Purvis |
| email: bill(a)billp.org |
+----------------------------------------+
I'm currently building a church organ, using
the GrandOrgue program to
handle the software
side of things. I'm looking for recommendations for a output device
which can handle 8 (or more)
outputs. There is no requirement for audio inputs, but that shouldn't
rule out devices with
inputs, they simply won't be used. Most of the discussions I've seen on
this list seem to be
more geared to multiple inputs rather than outputs.
I'm thinking in terms of a USB device, as most of the internal sound
cards seem to be
limited to 5 outputs. Cost is a factor, but reasonable sound quality is
required.
Anyone have any suggestions?
Thanks in advance,
Bill
Pardon my ignorance, but why do you need so many outputs?
10:54 p.m.
New subject: recommendations for output-only audio devices
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 21:49:32 +0000
Bill Purvis <bill(a)billp.org> wrote:
On 18/12/17 17:08, Will Godfrey wrote:
Thanks,
Fascinating project. Do let us know how you get on with it :)
--
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 16:46:14 +0000
Bill Purvis <bill(a)billp.org> wrote:
The organ
has three manuals, plus a pedal board. The organist currently
says he wants three pair of
speakers - front, middle and back, and a big woofer in the centre! The
software supports an arbitrary
number of output channels, each with the option of a swell pedal to vary
the volumes. I'm currently
budgeting for 4 stereo amps to drive it all! It started out with only
two manuals, but it doesn't
cost much to add a third manual, the big problem is fitting it all into
the existing case!
Bill I'm currently building a church organ, using
the GrandOrgue program to
handle the software
side of things. I'm looking for recommendations for a output device
which can handle 8 (or more)
outputs. There is no requirement for audio inputs, but that shouldn't
rule out devices with
inputs, they simply won't be used. Most of the discussions I've seen on
this list seem to be
more geared to multiple inputs rather than outputs.
I'm thinking in terms of a USB device, as most of the internal sound
cards seem to be
limited to 5 outputs. Cost is a factor, but reasonable sound quality is
required.
Anyone have any suggestions?
Thanks in advance,
Bill
Pardon my ignorance, but why do you need so many outputs? 
19 Dec
19 Dec
12:50 a.m.
New subject: recommendations for output-only audio devices
On December 18, 2017 11:54:33 AM HST, Will Godfrey <willgodfrey(a)musically.me.uk>
wrote:
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 21:49:32 +0000
Bill Purvis <bill(a)billp.org> wrote:
The organ
has three manuals, plus a pedal board. The organist currently
He's intent on duplicating a true pipe organ layout, perhaps with a speaker for each
spot where a bank of pipes is or would be located?
My church band used to play in a church that had a pipe organ designed into it. The
acoustics were designed for the pipes that were all positioned above the entrance.
When the church added a 16-channel mixer and speakers along the sides (oriented toward the
rear), the acoustics for the speakers were awful. Positioning a pair of larger speakers
alongside the pipes would have made all the difference!
--
David W. Jones
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://dancingtreefrog.com
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail.
On 18/12/17 17:08, Will Godfrey wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 16:46:14 +0000
> Bill Purvis <bill(a)billp.org> wrote:
>
>> I'm currently building a church organ, using the GrandOrgue
program
to
>> handle the software
>> side of things. I'm looking for recommendations for a output
device
>> which can handle 8 (or more)
>> outputs. There is no requirement for audio inputs, but that
shouldn't
>> rule out devices with
>> inputs, they simply won't be used. Most of the discussions I've
seen on
>> this list seem to be
>> more geared to multiple inputs rather than outputs.
>>
>> I'm thinking in terms of a USB device, as most of the internal
sound
>> cards seem to be
>> limited to 5 outputs. Cost is a factor, but reasonable sound
quality is
required.
Anyone have any suggestions?
Thanks in advance,
Bill
Pardon my ignorance, but why do you need so many outputs? says he wants three pair of
speakers - front, middle and back, and a big woofer in the centre!
The
software supports an arbitrary
number of output channels, each with the option of a swell pedal to
vary
the volumes. I'm currently
budgeting for 4 stereo amps to drive it all! It started out with only
two manuals, but it doesn't
cost much to add a third manual, the big problem is fitting it all
into
the existing case!
Bill
Thanks,
Fascinating project. Do let us know how you get on with it :)
18 Dec
18 Dec
6:22 p.m.
New subject: recommendations for output-only audio devices
Bill Purvis <bill-+NoItNb8sEvYtjvyW6yDsg(a)public.gmane.org> writes:
I'm currently building a church organ, using the
GrandOrgue program to
handle the software
side of things. I'm looking for recommendations for a output device
which can handle 8 (or more)
outputs. There is no requirement for audio inputs, but that shouldn't
rule out devices with
inputs, they simply won't be used. Most of the discussions I've seen
on this list seem to be
more geared to multiple inputs rather than outputs.
I'm thinking in terms of a USB device, as most of the internal sound
cards seem to be
limited to 5 outputs. Cost is a factor, but reasonable sound quality
is required.
Anyone have any suggestions?
Well, if you can harbor the interface cards (available as PCcard, PCI
card, and Expresscard), an RME Multiface has 8 balanced outputs, 8
balanced inputs at line level (so you cannot connect microphones
directly, but who cares?), headphone out, Midi in and out, ADAT and
S/PDIF in and out. The D/A converters are excellent so you'll be able
to make do with 48kHz sampling frequency, allowing for 8 additional ADAT
outputs if necessary.
The Midi might come in handy for some applications.
Advantage: robust host interface, excellent audio. Disadvantage: you'll
buy this used and basically have to get the right interface card with it
since separate acquisition (or "new") will come considerably more
expensive.
Driver situation is reasonable under ALSA, and the DSP mixer can be
batch-controlled using amixer (meaning that you can also set up suitable
headphone and/or monitoring mixes that will be delivered simultaneously
with the output).
It's a reasonably small box. It's also about 13 years old already but
will likely continue to age better than some other devices.
--
David Kastrup
8:44 p.m.
New subject: recommendations for output-only audio devices
This :
https://www.minidsp.com/products/usb-audio-interface/u-dac8
usb class compliant 8 audio out
Le 18/12/2017 à 17:46, Bill Purvis a écrit :
I'm currently building a church organ, using the
GrandOrgue program to
handle the software
side of things. I'm looking for recommendations for a output device
which can handle 8 (or more)
outputs. There is no requirement for audio inputs, but that shouldn't
rule out devices with
inputs, they simply won't be used. Most of the discussions I've seen
on this list seem to be
more geared to multiple inputs rather than outputs.
I'm thinking in terms of a USB device, as most of the internal sound
cards seem to be
limited to 5 outputs. Cost is a factor, but reasonable sound quality
is required.
Anyone have any suggestions?
Thanks in advance,
Bill
10:42 p.m.
New subject: recommendations for output-only audio devices
That looks ideal, but I can't find anyone stocking them in the UK.
No bells, no whistles, just 8-channels of audio output. And, the data
sheet does say
Linux compatible with ALSA-2!
On 18/12/17 19:44, bernard wrote:
This :
https://www.minidsp.com/products/usb-audio-interface/u-dac8
usb class compliant 8 audio out
Le 18/12/2017 à 17:46, Bill Purvis a écrit :
--
+----------------------------------------+
| Bill Purvis |
| email: bill(a)billp.org |
+----------------------------------------+
I'm currently building a church organ, using
the GrandOrgue program
to handle the software
side of things. I'm looking for recommendations for a output device
which can handle 8 (or more)
outputs. There is no requirement for audio inputs, but that shouldn't
rule out devices with
inputs, they simply won't be used. Most of the discussions I've seen
on this list seem to be
more geared to multiple inputs rather than outputs.
I'm thinking in terms of a USB device, as most of the internal sound
cards seem to be
limited to 5 outputs. Cost is a factor, but reasonable sound quality
is required.
Anyone have any suggestions?
Thanks in advance,
Bill
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
27 Dec
27 Dec
3:16 p.m.
New subject: recommendations for output-only audio devices
On 19/12/17 08:59, - - wrote:
In my town there's a reseller maybe you can order but it will be more
expensive that if you order online from the minidsp site. I read good
reports of fast delivery from them.
Cheers
Bernard
> Le 18 décembre 2017 à 22:42, Bill Purvis a écrit :
>
>
> That looks ideal, but I can't find anyone stocking them in the UK.
>
> No bells, no whistles, just 8-channels of audio output. And, the data
> sheet does say
> Linux compatible with ALSA-2!
>
>
> On 18/12/17 19:44, bernard wrote:
>> This :
>>
>> https://www.minidsp.com/products/usb-audio-interface/u-dac8
>>
>> usb class compliant 8 audio out
I can confirm the fast delivery! It arrived
in Warrington on Saturday
morning!
Sadly, the FedEx don't deliver Saturdays, Sundays, Christmas Day or
Boxing day
so it only got here this morning. Plugged it in and aplay -L should up
multiple
devices. I then used qjackctl to handle 8 output audio output devices
and with
a bit of fiddling I got it to work. I don't currently have 4 stereo amps or
anything set up to drive 8 channels, but connecting Audacious to each of
the
outputs on Jack seems to confirm all is working well. I am confident
that this
will answer all the requirements for the organ for the forseeable future!
Many thanks once again!
Bill
--
+----------------------------------------+
| Bill Purvis Amateur Organ Builder |
| email: bill(a)billp.org |
+----------------------------------------+
3:36 p.m.
New subject: recommendations for output-only audio devices
Happy with this ending, Bill.
Cheers
Bernard
Le 27/12/2017 à 15:16, Bill Purvis a écrit :
On 19/12/17 08:59, - - wrote:
In my town there's a reseller maybe you can order but it will be more
expensive that if you order online from the minidsp site. I read good
reports of fast delivery from them.
Cheers
Bernard
> Le 18 décembre 2017 à 22:42, Bill Purvis a écrit :
>
>
> That looks ideal, but I can't find anyone stocking them in the UK.
>
> No bells, no whistles, just 8-channels of audio output. And, the data
> sheet does say
> Linux compatible with ALSA-2!
>
>
> On 18/12/17 19:44, bernard wrote:
>> This :
>>
>> https://www.minidsp.com/products/usb-audio-interface/u-dac8
>>
>> usb class compliant 8 audio out
I can confirm the fast delivery! It
arrived in Warrington on Saturday
morning!
Sadly, the FedEx don't deliver Saturdays, Sundays, Christmas Day or
Boxing day
so it only got here this morning. Plugged it in and aplay -L should up
multiple
devices. I then used qjackctl to handle 8 output audio output devices
and with
a bit of fiddling I got it to work. I don't currently have 4 stereo
amps or
anything set up to drive 8 channels, but connecting Audacious to each
of the
outputs on Jack seems to confirm all is working well. I am confident
that this
will answer all the requirements for the organ for the forseeable future!
Many thanks once again!
Bill
2525
days inactive
2541
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
21 comments
12 participants
participants (12)
-
- - -
bernard
-
Bill Purvis -
Chris Caudle -
David Kastrup -
David W. Jones -
Fons Adriaensen -
Jeanette C. -
jonetsu -
Lorenzo Sutton -
Robert Edge -
Will Godfrey