5 Jul
2010
5 Jul
'10
11:40 a.m.
a program i'm making (yes that one) will benefit from knowing about
musical scales. i looked in the source code for non-sequencer (i'll
look at arpage next), and adapted an array there into the following
form:
{ "Major", { 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1 }},
{ "Natural Minor", { 1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0 }},
{ "Harmonic Minor", { 1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 0, 1 }},
{ "Melodic Minor", { 1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1 }},
{ "Major Pentatonic", { 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0 }},
{ "Minor Pentatonic", { 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 1, 0 }},
{ "Chromatic", { 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1 }}
(1 means a note is part of that scale, 0 means it is not).
so for C Major:
{ "Major", { 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1 }},
c c# d d# e f f# g g# a a# b
(Unless I'm mistaken) all the above scales can be transposed to work
with any key.
Now I'm not very musical, and found my way to wikipedia, specifically this page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whole_tone_scale
Which says "In music, a whole tone scale is a scale in which each note
is separated from its neighbours by the interval of a whole step.
There are only two complementary whole tone scales, both six-note or
hexatonic scales:
* {C, D, E, F♯, G♯, A♯, C}
* {B, D♭, E♭, F, G, A, B}.
"
Which is confusing for me because it seems I can represent it in the array as:
{ "Whole Tone", { 1, 0, 1, 0, 1 ,0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0 }},
But goes on to say I it is impossible for any key other than "c" or
"b" but the array representation seems to show it could work for any
key.
Can anyone explain?
Cheers,
James.
5 Jul
5 Jul
11:46 a.m.
On 5 July 2010 10:39, James Morris <james(a)jwm-art.net> wrote:
a program i'm making (yes that one) will benefit
from knowing about
musical scales. i looked in the source code for non-sequencer (i'll
look at arpage next), and adapted an array there into the following
form:
{ "Major", { 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1 }},
{ "Natural Minor", { 1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0 }},
{ "Harmonic Minor", { 1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 0, 1 }},
{ "Melodic Minor", { 1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1 }},
{ "Major Pentatonic", { 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0 }},
{ "Minor Pentatonic", { 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 1, 0 }},
{ "Chromatic", { 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1 }}
(1 means a note is part of that scale, 0 means it is not).
so for C Major:
{ "Major", { 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1 }},
c c# d d# e f f# g g# a a# b
(Unless I'm mistaken) all the above scales can be transposed to work
with any key.
Now I'm not very musical, and found my way to wikipedia, specifically this page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whole_tone_scale
Which says "In music, a whole tone scale is a scale in which each note
is separated from its neighbours by the interval of a whole step.
There are only two complementary whole tone scales, both six-note or
hexatonic scales:
* {C, D, E, F♯, G♯, A♯, C}
* {B, D♭, E♭, F, G, A, B}.
"
Which is confusing for me because it seems I can represent it in the array as:
{ "Whole Tone", { 1, 0, 1, 0, 1 ,0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0 }},
But goes on to say I it is impossible for any key other than "c" or
"b" but the array representation seems to show it could work for any
key.
Can anyone explain?
Doh! I get it!
Cheers,
James.
11:48 a.m.
On Mon, 5 Jul 2010 10:39:53 +0100, James Morris wrote
[...]
(Unless I'm mistaken) all the above scales can be transposed to work
with any key.
Indeed.
Now I'm not very musical, and found my way to
wikipedia,
specifically this page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whole_tone_scale
Which says "In music, a whole tone scale is a scale in which each
note is separated from its neighbours by the interval of a whole
step. There are only two complementary whole tone scales, both six-
note or hexatonic scales: * {C, D, E, [UTF-8?]Fâ¯, [UTF-8?]Gâ¯,
[UTF-8?]Aâ¯,
C} *
{B, [UTF-8?]Dâ, [UTF-8?]Eâ, F, G, A, B}. "
Which is confusing for me because it seems I can represent it in the
array as:
{ "Whole Tone", { 1, 0, 1, 0, 1 ,0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0 }},
or: { "Whole Tone as well" { 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1 }
But goes on to say I it is impossible for any key
other than "c" or
"b" but the array representation seems to show it could work for any
key.
Can anyone explain?
Well, you can have one on C od on D, any transposition will have the same
notes as either the C or the D version.
HTH Ralf Mattes
Cheers,
James.
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
--
R. Mattes -- Systemeinheitsstreichler
Hochschule fuer Musik Freiburg
rm(a)inm.mh-freiburg.de
1:07 p.m.
R. Mattes wrote:
On Mon, 5 Jul 2010 10:39:53 +0100, James Morris wrote
> Now I'm not very musical, and found my way to wikipedia,
> specifically this page:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whole_tone_scale
>
> Which says "In music, a whole tone scale is a scale in which each
> note is separated from its neighbours by the interval of a whole
> step. There are only two complementary whole tone scales, both six-
> note or hexatonic scales:
This is correct. In the usual ET scale contruction we have three normal
symmetrical scales (aka modes of limited transposition) :
Chromatic scale: 1/2 step equidistant
Whole-tone scale: 1 step
Diminished scale: 1 1/2 steps
See Persichetti on the utility on symmetrical scales and Messiaen on
modes of limited transposition.
Btw, to the OP: You might save yourself some work simply by
incorporating Scala support.
http://www.huygens-fokker.org/scala/
Best,
dp
11:49 a.m.
On 2010-07-05 11:39, James Morris wrote:
Can anyone explain?
I can't see where you're confused, really. Everything you write makes
perfectly sense.
Could you say exactly what you find confusing?
NB: If you think you *ever* want your program to support microtonality
and/or alternate tunings, you might want a more flexible way to
represent your scales...
--
Atte
http://atte.dk http://modlys.dk
12:27 p.m.
On 5 July 2010 10:49, Atte André Jensen <atte(a)email.dk> wrote:
On 2010-07-05 11:39, James Morris wrote:
Just a small brain fail.
Can anyone explain?
I can't see where you're confused, really. Everything you write makes
perfectly sense.
Could you say exactly what you find confusing? NB: If you think you *ever* want your program to
support microtonality
and/or alternate tunings, you might want a more flexible way to represent
your scales...
Microtanility and alternate tunings will be happening in the 2.0 release!
Just a quick query about pentatonics:
{ "Major Pentatonic", { 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0 }},
{ "Minor Pentatonic", { 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 1, 0 }},
c c# d d# e f f# g g# a a# b
So the major pentatonic in C is the minor pentatonic in A?
Cheers,
James.
12:33 p.m.
On Mon, 5 Jul 2010 11:26:56 +0100
James Morris <james(a)jwm-art.net> wrote:
So the major pentatonic in C is the minor pentatonic
in A?
Yes, but I think you have a typo in your array :
{ "Major Pentatonic", { 1, 0, 1, 0, 1,
0, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0 }},
{ "Minor Pentatonic", { 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 1, 0 }},
The minor pentatonic scale should be :
{ 1, 0, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 1, 0 }
HTH
-- David
1:11 p.m.
David wrote:
On Mon, 5 Jul 2010 11:26:56 +0100
James Morris <james(a)jwm-art.net> wrote:
Yes, that's one. However, "minor pentatonic" describes only two factors,
that the 3rd is flatted and that there are five tones to the scale. The
interval structure is not fixed, i.e. there are many possible
pentatonic scales. Persichetti's book includes a nice mini-catalog of
useful pentatonic scales.
Best,
dp
So the major pentatonic in C is the minor
pentatonic in A?
Yes, but I think you have a typo in your array :
{ "Major Pentatonic", { 1, 0, 1, 0,
1, 0, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0 }},
{ "Minor Pentatonic", { 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 1, 0 }},
The minor pentatonic scale should be :
{ 1, 0, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 1, 0 }
7:41 p.m.
Excerpts from James Morris's message of 2010-07-05 11:39:53 +0200:
a program i'm making (yes that one) will benefit
from knowing about
musical scales. i looked in the source code for non-sequencer (i'll
look at arpage next), and adapted an array there into the following
form:
{ "Major", { 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1 }},
{ "Natural Minor", { 1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0 }},
{ "Harmonic Minor", { 1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 0, 1 }},
{ "Melodic Minor", { 1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1 }},
{ "Major Pentatonic", { 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0 }},
{ "Minor Pentatonic", { 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 1, 0 }},
{ "Chromatic", { 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1 }}
(1 means a note is part of that scale, 0 means it is not).
Just one word of warning:
In case you copy code from non-sequencer, make sure to test it. I played
with it today, played with scales, and after I reverted to the initial
"Major" it started to more or less randomly not play notes. Well, I
think there was a pattern to it, but anyway, it seems to be buggy
somewhere around that code.
--
Regards,
Philipp
--
"Wir stehen selbst enttäuscht und sehn betroffen / Den Vorhang zu und alle Fragen
offen." Bertolt Brecht, Der gute Mensch von Sezuan
8:38 p.m.
On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 2:39 AM, James Morris <james(a)jwm-art.net> wrote:
a program i'm making (yes that one) will benefit
from knowing about
musical scales. i looked in the source code for non-sequencer (i'll
look at arpage next),
One thing I'd like to see in a pitch-smart arpeggiator: automatic
chording, much like what can be done with a Suzuki Qchord (
http://www.qchord.net/ ).
(see also LAU:
http://old.nabble.com/Suzuki-QC1-Qchord-Digital-Songcard-Guitar-td28495861.…
)
Instead of the usual settings for arpeggiation range&style (1octave,
2octave && notes played in order vs. random, etc), you'd have arp
range AND chord.
Instead of playing the notes to arpeggiate, you'd play the root note
of the chord and select a desired chord. Getting fancier, once a
chord is set, you could do a discrete-glissando up and down the
keyboard to "strum" the chord. (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glissando#.27Discrete_glissando.27 ).
-- Niels
http://nielsmayer.com
6 Jul
6 Jul
5:25 a.m.
Oh and make sure you don't violate any Apple patents... other than my
being listed in the patent (I'm still trying to figure out why), the
patent below is the most ridiculous piece of crap I've seen since IBM
patented object oriented programming....
http://www.patents.com/Method-apparatus-managing-windows-7739604.html
Patent ID:
US7739604
Issue Date:
June 15, 2010
Abstract:
Methods and apparatuses to manipulate a window during a drag-and-drop
operation. In one aspect of the invention, a method to manipulate a
window includes: receiving input of dragging an item to a first window
in a first state in which the first window is not completely
accessible on a first screen; and bringing the first window from the
first state to a second state in which the first window is more
accessible or completely accessible on the first screen before the
item is dropped. In one example according to this aspect, the first
window is brought to the second state in response to a first
determination that the first window contains a target location for the
item. The first determination is in response to a predetermined input
which is one of: a) a determination that the item has hovered around a
location in the first window for a predetermined amount of time; and
b) an input of pressing a key while the item is being dragged in the
first window.
Niels
http://nielsmayer.com
1:33 p.m.
On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 11:25 PM, Niels Mayer <nielsmayer(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Oh and make sure you don't violate any Apple
patents... other than my
being listed in the patent (I'm still trying to figure out why), the
patent below is the most ridiculous piece of crap I've seen since IBM
patented object oriented programming....
http://www.patents.com/Method-apparatus-managing-windows-7739604.html
[ ... abstract elided ... ]
please do not post patent abstracts to this or any other mailing list.
US law poses no requirement on an "inventor" to perform a patent
search, and a provable lack of awareness of existing patents does have
a small but definite impact on the legal result of an infringement. by
posting to the mailing list, you make provable lack of awareness much
harder to prove. posting a link to the patent doesn't expose us to
this issue, and leaves individuals free to decide whether to follow
the link or not.
--p
2:02 p.m.
Paul Davis wrote:
please do not post patent abstracts to this or any
other mailing list.
US law poses no requirement on an "inventor" to perform a patent
search, and a provable lack of awareness of existing patents does have
a small but definite impact on the legal result of an infringement.
This is in direct contradiction to the advice Andrew Tridgell (one
of the lead Samba developers):
http://news.swpat.org/2010/03/transcript-tridgell-patents/
Erik
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Erik de Castro Lopo
http://www.mega-nerd.com/
6:11 p.m.
On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 8:02 AM, Erik de Castro Lopo
<mle+la(a)mega-nerd.com> wrote:
Paul Davis wrote:
Tridgell's argument is that a project is going to get killed by a
patent infringement anyway, so you may as well figure out what's out
there to be as best prepared as possible. I don't think he's wrong -
rather, there are different ways to tackle the issue. In the case of
the (absurd) apple patent that was cited, I have to believe that any
infringment case based on that patent is going to turn out better for
FOSS if there is a robust independent discovery basis. If it turns out
that lots of people have read the patent and tried to workaround it
and failed, I cannot see how that would help an attempt to overturn
it.
please do not post patent abstracts to this or
any other mailing list.
US law poses no requirement on an "inventor" to perform a patent
search, and a provable lack of awareness of existing patents does have
a small but definite impact on the legal result of an infringement.
This is in direct contradiction to the advice Andrew Tridgell (one
of the lead Samba developers):
http://news.swpat.org/2010/03/transcript-tridgell-patents/ 
6:28 p.m.
On Tue, 6 Jul 2010, Paul Davis wrote:
On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 8:02 AM, Erik de Castro Lopo
<mle+la(a)mega-nerd.com> wrote:
Also, Tridge's worst case is "the project is dead." As
opposed to "the project is dead and I am now liable to
Microsoft for US $250,000 for patent infringement damages."
If you are ignorant of the patent you are infringing on, you
will get away with a 'cease and desist.'
If you knew about the patent and knowingly infringed on it,
you are knowingly disobeying the law, and may well be liable
for damages.
-gabriel
p.s. When you apply for a patent there is also the "Duty of
Candor" that you have to consider -- this requires that you
list every related patent that you've ever seen. Since this
requires careful recordkeeping, lawyers recommend that
engineers don't search for patents.
Paul Davis wrote:
Tridgell's argument is that a project is going to get killed by a
patent infringement anyway, so you may as well figure out what's out
there to be as best prepared as possible. I don't think he's wrong -
rather, there are different ways to tackle the issue. In the case of
the (absurd) apple patent that was cited, I have to believe that any
infringment case based on that patent is going to turn out better for
FOSS if there is a robust independent discovery basis. If it turns out
that lots of people have read the patent and tried to workaround it
and failed, I cannot see how that would help an attempt to overturn
it. please do not post patent abstracts to this or
any other mailing list.
US law poses no requirement on an "inventor" to perform a patent
search, and a provable lack of awareness of existing patents does have
a small but definite impact on the legal result of an infringement.
This is in direct contradiction to the advice Andrew Tridgell (one
of the lead Samba developers):
http://news.swpat.org/2010/03/transcript-tridgell-patents/
10:54 a.m.
On 5 July 2010 19:38, Niels Mayer <nielsmayer(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 2:39 AM, James Morris
<james(a)jwm-art.net> wrote:
boxyseq won't be doing this exactly to your requirements, but then,
boxyseq is intended more for taking some control away from the
composer. the user only has partial control over pitch and velocity
values generated, and there is no guarantee that all events in the
pattern will generate MIDI note-on/off messages.
however, you may specify multiple events at the same position in the
pattern. i can't recall what order the event occupying the same
position will be processed in (ie fifo or filo) but each event will be
placed individually in the grid. recall they have width when placed.
so that when the scale stuff is implemented, if the X coordinate of
the event when translated to pitch is not valid within the scale then
X + n where n < X + WIDTH is used (provided X + n is a pitch which is
not already playing on that port/channel combination ;-)).
so some kind of random scale-based chord arrangement will be
happening, if that's any good. i'm pretty knowledgeless about choords
(i learnt the trumpet at school), and did not learn much about scales
- the reasons i'm writing this;-)
james.
a program i'm making (yes that one) will
benefit from knowing about
musical scales. i looked in the source code for non-sequencer (i'll
look at arpage next),
One thing I'd like to see in a pitch-smart arpeggiator: automatic
chording, much like what can be done with a Suzuki Qchord (
http://www.qchord.net/ ).
(see also LAU:
http://old.nabble.com/Suzuki-QC1-Qchord-Digital-Songcard-Guitar-td28495861.…
)
Instead of the usual settings for arpeggiation range&style (1octave,
2octave && notes played in order vs. random, etc), you'd have arp
range AND chord.
Instead of playing the notes to arpeggiate, you'd play the root note
of the chord and select a desired chord. Getting fancier, once a
chord is set, you could do a discrete-glissando up and down the
keyboard to "strum" the chord. (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glissando#.27Discrete_glissando.27 ).
-- Niels
http://nielsmayer.com
1:53 p.m.
On 6 July 2010 09:23, James Morris <james(a)jwm-art.net> wrote:
however, you may specify multiple events at the same
position in the
pattern. i can't recall what order the event occupying the same
position will be processed in (ie fifo or filo) but each event will be
placed individually in the grid. recall they have width when placed.
so that when the scale stuff is implemented, if the X coordinate of
the event when translated to pitch is not valid within the scale then
X + n where n < X + WIDTH is used (provided X + n is a pitch which is
not already playing on that port/channel combination ;-)).
so some kind of random scale-based chord arrangement will be
happening, if that's any good. i'm pretty knowledgeless about choords
(i learnt the trumpet at school), and did not learn much about scales
- the reasons i'm writing this;-)
which sounds something like this:
http://jwm-art.net/art/audio/plinky_plonka.mp3
this is in the 'augmented' scale of c. apparently. i've not yet
implement any method of specifying a key so i'm guessing it's 'c'.
the data for this scale taken from arpage source code.
5066
days inactive
5067
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
16 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
-
Atte André Jensen -
Dave Phillips -
David -
Erik de Castro Lopo -
Gabriel M. Beddingfield -
James Morris -
Niels Mayer -
Paul Davis -
Philipp Überbacher -
R. Mattes