17 Sep
2007
17 Sep
'07
1:47 a.m.
Loki,
Because doing D/A on an internal soundcard is noisy. I can hear the hum of my
fans coming through my tweeters. Having the D/A outside of the box is quiet.
Granted in a year or so i'll be replacing this with something better like a
RME ADI-8 QS or universe willing a Lexicon MC12.
I do know how to use ebay, but i don't have much money at the moment. $100 is
about my limit to spend on this. Firewire? Last time i looked almost all of
it was proprietary and not useable on linux. I would love to use firewire,
but you can't run firewire D/As on Linux (RME, MOTU are out for sure).
Yes, USB is ugly, but it's better then the noise you get using internal D/A.
My next build will be much, much quieter, but even a fanless system still
creates hum that can be heard through the speakers, doesn't it?
Bearcat
On Sunday 16 September 2007 in an email titled "Re: [LAU] M-Audio Audiophile
Line Level Inputs" Loki Davison wrote:
On 9/17/07, Bearcat M. Sandor
<HomeTheater(a)feline-soul.com> wrote:
(Also sent to the Mythtv-users list)
Folks,
I have a Creative SoundBlaster Extigy, and it's just not good enough. It
sounds fairly veiled and distorts quickly. I'm thinking of moving up to a
M-Audio Audiophile USB.
I use the line in jack on the soundblaster as the input for Mythtv,
running the RCA jacks from my Dish Network box to the SB. Given that the
audiophile has separate, balanced (TAS), if i got a rca-tas cable
(assuming they exist) and run my Dish Network box into the left and right
tas jacks would this work
in the same way? My question about the jacks themselves, not Mythtv.
Thanks,
Bearcat M. Sandor
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/linux-audio-user
I klnow i have a said this 2 million times on the list but... is this
for a laptop? If not, why the hell would anyone in there right mind
want a usb soundcard? BAD. Get a pci card / firewire / cardbus card.
usb-audio isn't nice unless you are really short on cash and can't
work out how to use ebay...
Loki 
17 Sep
17 Sep
3:26 a.m.
New subject: M-Audio Audiophile Line Level Inputs
On 9/17/07, Bearcat M. Sandor <HomeTheater(a)feline-soul.com> wrote:
Loki,
Because doing D/A on an internal soundcard is noisy. I can hear the hum of
my
fans coming through my tweeters. Having the D/A outside of the box is quiet.
Granted in a year or so i'll be replacing this with something better like a
RME ADI-8 QS or universe willing a Lexicon MC12.
I do know how to use ebay, but i don't have much money at the moment. $100
is
about my limit to spend on this. Firewire? Last time i looked almost all of
it was proprietary and not useable on linux. I would love to use firewire,
but you can't run firewire D/As on Linux (RME, MOTU are out for sure).
Yes, USB is ugly, but it's better then the noise you get using internal D/A.
My next build will be much, much quieter, but even a fanless system still
creates hum that can be heard through the speakers, doesn't it?
Bearcat
oops. sorry last reply was just to you not to list, keep making that
mistake. It's totally not true that outside the system is a lot better
than inside. Higher end pci cards are far better than any usb card.
The hum of your fans has nothing to do with it unless electrical
interference is a major issue. Any decent card won't worry about it. I
wouldn't buy USB stuff if it was damn near free. I used a usb card for
a few years...
If you want the total proof of the inside computer vs outside
http://www.lynxstudio.com/lynxtwo.html lynx 2 is a nice (expensive)
bit of gear and "fan hum" isn't going to be an issue.... i'm not sure
how you heard about this fan hum / speaker thing unless you have mics
that are picking up the fans. If your mics are picking up the fans and
playing them through the speakers that is an issue but not related in
any way to the soundcard choice. if your keen on firewire check out
http://www.ffado.org/
Loki
5:56 a.m.
New subject: M-Audio Audiophile Line Level Inputs
Hi,
Am Montag, 17. September 2007 schrieb Loki Davison:
Here freebob does a good job with a presonus firepod. Good job = running
stable for more than six hours with 5ms delay without xrun in a live job...
But USB isn't that bad either. Except for the conceptional errors in USB in
generel (that is way sometimes usb-devices even disks disappear and appear
again, which is bad for audio (my hardware-dealer told me about this, I
wouldn't believe it but now I am happy to have a firewire-card)).
Have a nice week,
Arnold
--
visit http://www.arnoldarts.de/
---
Hi, I am a .signature virus. Please copy me into your ~/.signature and send me
to all your contacts.
After a month or so log in as root and do a rm / -rf. Or ask your
administrator to do so...
On 9/17/07, Bearcat M. Sandor
<HomeTheater(a)feline-soul.com> wrote:
> Because doing D/A on an internal soundcard is noisy. I can hear the hum
> of my
> fans coming through my tweeters. Having the D/A outside of the box is
> quiet.
Yeah, that fan-noise-myth some more! Unless your card has a microphone
on-board (which I seriously doubt) it isn't picking up the fans noises but
electrical interference. Please see the archives, this is a well discussed
phenomenon.
I do know how
to use ebay, but i don't have much money at the moment.
$100 is
about my limit to spend on this. Firewire? Last time i looked almost all
of it was proprietary and not useable on linux. I would love to use
firewire, but you can't run firewire D/As on Linux (RME, MOTU are out for
sure).
if your keen on firewire check out
http://www.ffado.org/ 
6:26 a.m.
New subject: M-Audio Audiophile Line Level Inputs
Hallo,
Bearcat M. Sandor hat gesagt: // Bearcat M. Sandor wrote:
Because doing D/A on an internal soundcard is noisy. I
can hear the hum of my
fans coming through my tweeters. Having the D/A outside of the box is quiet.
Granted in a year or so i'll be replacing this with something better like a
RME ADI-8 QS or universe willing a Lexicon MC12.
I do know how to use ebay, but i don't have much money at the moment. $100 is
about my limit to spend on this.
But the M-Audio Audiophile USB is $250 according to m-audio.com, so
it's out of your price range (and it's way overpriced anway IMO). The
M-Audio Audiophile *PCI* is much less than $100, so why not buy this?
As I wrote in another mailing list's thread with you, I can (almost)
assure you that it won't be affected by the fan noise.
Ciao
--
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
1:53 p.m.
New subject: M-Audio Audiophile Line Level Inputs
Folks,
Alright, i'll try a PCI card, but i'm still skeptical. When i have my ear upto
the woofer and tweeter i can hear a hum that matches the speed of the fans in
my case.
Even if the list of the M-Audio USB is $250 list, it's still in my range as
they go for about $100 on ebay. I missed one for $60 the other day.
Besides, having a direct card-amp connection means i get the *pop* if my
system turns off. About half the people i've asked say this wont' hurt
anything and half say it's dangerous to my equipment. The USB with it's own
power supply alleviates this.
Bearcat
On Monday 17 September 2007 in an email
titled "Re: [LAU] M-Audio Audiophile Line Level Inputs" Frank Barknecht
wrote:
Hallo,
Bearcat M. Sandor hat gesagt: // Bearcat M. Sandor wrote:
Because doing D/A on an internal soundcard is
noisy. I can hear the hum of
my fans coming through my tweeters. Having the D/A outside of the box is
quiet. Granted in a year or so i'll be replacing this with something
better like a RME ADI-8 QS or universe willing a Lexicon MC12.
I do know how to use ebay, but i don't have much money at the moment. $100
is about my limit to spend on this.
But the M-Audio Audiophile USB is $250 according to m-audio.com, so
it's out of your price range (and it's way overpriced anway IMO). The
M-Audio Audiophile *PCI* is much less than $100, so why not buy this?
As I wrote in another mailing list's thread with you, I can (almost)
assure you that it won't be affected by the fan noise.
Ciao
2:39 p.m.
New subject: M-Audio Audiophile Line Level Inputs
Hallo,
Bearcat M. Sandor hat gesagt: // Bearcat M. Sandor wrote:
Even if the list of the M-Audio USB is $250 list,
it's still in my range as
they go for about $100 on ebay. I missed one for $60 the other day.
I guess the low prices have a reason. Btw. Anyone interested in my
$300 M-Audio Quattro USB for, say, 20 bucks plus shipping (from
Europe)? ;)
Besides, having a direct card-amp connection means i
get the *pop* if my
system turns off. About half the people i've asked say this wont' hurt
anything and half say it's dangerous to my equipment. The USB with it's own
power supply alleviates this.
Generally one should shutdown speakers first, then the amp/mixing
desk, then the computer. But you can also turn off the computer first,
if the volume level of the respective channel on your mixing desk is
muted. Then there should be no "pop".
Ciao
--
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
3:22 p.m.
New subject: M-Audio Audiophile Line Level Inputs
Am Montag, 17. September 2007 schrieb Bearcat M. Sandor:
Besides, having a direct card-amp connection means i
get the *pop* if my
system turns off. About half the people i've asked say this wont' hurt
anything and half say it's dangerous to my equipment. The USB with it's
own power supply alleviates this.
The rule in mixing is:
- Turn on the devices in the direction of the sound-signal (mixer and
outboard-equipment first, amps last).
- Turn off the devices in the opposite direction.
These pop's can destroy your speakers.
And USB will have the same problem as the power of these devices has to fail
too. Unless your pc isn't really powered off and still provides power on the
usb (for keyboard/mouse and their wakeup).
Arnold
--
visit http://www.arnoldarts.de/
---
Hi, I am a .signature virus. Please copy me into your ~/.signature and send me
to all your contacts.
After a month or so log in as root and do a rm / -rf. Or ask your
administrator to do so...
3:49 p.m.
New subject: M-Audio Audiophile Line Level Inputs
Thank you. I'll just have to remember to turn off my amp before i leave for
any length of time, in case my power fails and my APC shuts things off.
Bearcat M. Sandor
On Monday 17 September 2007 in an email titled "Re: [LAU] M-Audio Audiophile
Line Level Inputs" Arnold Krille wrote:
Am Montag, 17. September 2007 schrieb Bearcat M.
Sandor:
Besides, having a direct card-amp connection
means i get the *pop* if my
system turns off. About half the people i've asked say this wont' hurt
anything and half say it's dangerous to my equipment. The USB with it's
own power supply alleviates this.
The rule in mixing is:
- Turn on the devices in the direction of the sound-signal (mixer and
outboard-equipment first, amps last).
- Turn off the devices in the opposite direction.
These pop's can destroy your speakers.
And USB will have the same problem as the power of these devices has to fail
too. Unless your pc isn't really powered off and still provides power on the
usb (for keyboard/mouse and their wakeup).
Arnold 
4:07 p.m.
New subject: M-Audio Audiophile Line Level Inputs
On Mon, Sep 17, 2007 at 11:49:51AM -0600, Bearcat M. Sandor wrote:
Thank you. I'll just have to remember to turn off
my amp before i leave for
any length of time, in case my power fails and my APC shuts things off.
Here I'm using a stereo fader scavenged from a 1960s broadcast desk
in between the soundcard and the amp. It's passive, fully balanced (!)
and looks very antique...
--
FA
Follie! Follie! Delirio vano è questo !
2:08 p.m.
New subject: M-Audio Audiophile Line Level Inputs
On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 10:25:12 +0200
Frank Barknecht <fbar(a)footils.org> wrote:
Hallo,
Bearcat M. Sandor hat gesagt: // Bearcat M. Sandor wrote:
I have the 2496 card, which I guess is the one you are talking about.
I've used it in two quite different machines, and never had the
slightest problem with noise etc.
--
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
Because doing D/A on an internal soundcard is
noisy. I can hear the hum of my
fans coming through my tweeters. Having the D/A outside of the box is quiet.
Granted in a year or so i'll be replacing this with something better like a
RME ADI-8 QS or universe willing a Lexicon MC12.
I do know how to use ebay, but i don't have much money at the moment. $100 is
about my limit to spend on this.
But the M-Audio Audiophile USB is $250 according to m-audio.com, so
it's out of your price range (and it's way overpriced anway IMO). The
M-Audio Audiophile *PCI* is much less than $100, so why not buy this?
As I wrote in another mailing list's thread with you, I can (almost)
assure you that it won't be affected by the fan noise.
Ciao
2:22 p.m.
New subject: M-Audio Audiophile Line Level Inputs
Thank you. Are power-off pops a concern? I'm going straight from card to amp.
Bearcat
On Monday 17 September 2007 in an email titled "Re: [LAU] M-Audio Audiophile
Line Level Inputs" Folderol wrote:
On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 10:25:12 +0200
Frank Barknecht <fbar(a)footils.org> wrote:
Hallo,
Bearcat M. Sandor hat gesagt: // Bearcat M. Sandor wrote:
I have the 2496 card, which I guess is the one you are talking about.
I've used it in two quite different machines, and never had the
slightest problem with noise etc. Because doing D/A on an internal soundcard is
noisy. I can hear the hum
of my fans coming through my tweeters. Having the D/A outside of the box
is quiet. Granted in a year or so i'll be replacing this with something
better like a RME ADI-8 QS or universe willing a Lexicon MC12.
I do know how to use ebay, but i don't have much money at the moment.
$100 is about my limit to spend on this.
But the M-Audio Audiophile USB is $250 according to m-audio.com, so
it's out of your price range (and it's way overpriced anway IMO). The
M-Audio Audiophile *PCI* is much less than $100, so why not buy this?
As I wrote in another mailing list's thread with you, I can (almost)
assure you that it won't be affected by the fan noise.
Ciao 
2:46 p.m.
New subject: M-Audio Audiophile Line Level Inputs
On Mon, Sep 17, 2007 at 10:22:05AM -0600, Bearcat M. Sandor wrote:
Thank you. Are power-off pops a concern? I'm
going straight from card to amp.
Count me in as another fan of the m-audio PCI-based cards. I've used
the Delta 66, Delta 1010 and Audiophile2496. All have been whisper-quiet
and sound great, and work effortlessly under Linux.
As for the transient from power-cycling the PC, it's definitely worse for
the speakers than the amp. I always make sure my amp's volume is down and my
powered monitors are disconnected before I power-cycle the PC.
--
======================================================================
Joe Hartley - UNIX/network Consultant - jh(a)brainiac.com
Without deviation from the norm, "progress" is not possible. - FZappa
18 Sep
18 Sep
3:14 a.m.
New subject: M-Audio Audiophile Line Level Inputs
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On Mon, Sep 17, 2007 at 10:22:05AM -0600, Bearcat M. Sandor wrote:
Thank you. Are power-off pops a concern? I'm
going straight from card to amp.
Yes. I've already screwed up some speakers. These USB audio interfaces go BOOM when
you power them off. Like, when you kick the line cord out of the power strip on your
laptop, and, an hour later, the battery goes dead and the laptop powers off. For example.
- -ken
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3:58 a.m.
New subject: M-Audio Audiophile Line Level Inputs
What makes a consumer level pre-amp different? I know some pre-amps "pop" and
i know quite a few subwoofers that "thump" when you first turn them on and
they never blow anything right? That would suggest that every time you are
turning on your Sony you run the risk of blowing something. Quite a few have
delays, but not all do.
Bearcat M. Sandor
On Monday 17 September 2007 in an email titled "Re: [LAU] M-Audio Audiophile
Line Level Inputs" Ken Restivo wrote:
On Mon, Sep 17, 2007 at 10:22:05AM -0600, Bearcat M.
Sandor wrote:
Thank you. Are power-off pops a concern? I'm
going straight from card to
amp.
Yes. I've already screwed up some speakers. These USB audio interfaces go
BOOM when you power them off. Like, when you kick the line cord out of the
power strip on your laptop, and, an hour later, the battery goes dead and
the laptop powers off. For example.
-ken
5:12 p.m.
New subject: M-Audio Audiophile Line Level Inputs
On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 23:58:36 -0600
"Bearcat M. Sandor" <HomeTheater(a)feline-soul.com> wrote:
What makes a consumer level pre-amp different? I know
some pre-amps "pop" and
i know quite a few subwoofers that "thump" when you first turn them on and
they never blow anything right? That would suggest that every time you are
turning on your Sony you run the risk of blowing something. Quite a few have
delays, but not all do.
Some old valve (tube) amplifiers were vunerable to pulses due to
the back emf effects of output transformers and marginal stability.
Early transistors were delicate beasties and often worked at their
limits, so were also vulnerable. Unless you are using total crap, no
amplifier less than about 30 years old should have any problem at all
with pulses, DC shifts or raw mains stuffed up the input.
<pet peeve mode = "on">
Speaker manufacturers lie.
In case you missed that: Speaker manufacturers lie.
Most speakers have absolutely nowhere near their quoted power rating
(apart from PA etc.)
If you drive a *real* 50W speaker from a 50W amplifer, it is impossible
for any signal passing though the amp to damage the speaker.
'instantaneous power' is what they are quoting, a meaningless figure
invented by the marketing droids. It is supposed to be a 1 cycle and
the power is calculated from the difference between peak positive
voltage x current to the peak negative voltage x current. The
frequency of the signal and waveshape are usually NOT quoted.
Very occasionally they will be honest enough to give you an RMS
figure, but don't mention the frequency or duration.
The only trustworthy spec is *continuous* sinewave power with either a
given centre frequency or better still, 'full power bandwidth'
<pet peeve mode = "off">
If your speakers and amplifiers are properly matched the amp should not
deliver any significant out-of-band power to the speaker, so should
have adequate low and high pass filters. Many do not.
I feel better now. I'll go and make a cup of coffee :)
--
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
6329
days inactive
6331
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
14 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
Arnold Krille -
Bearcat M. Sandor -
Folderol -
Fons Adriaensen -
Frank Barknecht -
Joe Hartley -
Ken Restivo -
Loki Davison