13 Mar
2003
13 Mar
'03
8:34 p.m.
Greetings,
I was just curious if anyone on the list has attempted to collaborate musicly?
By "collaborate" I mean sharing of things such as "tracks" of audio (I
would
assume this is the prefered method, unless MIDI is utilized and everyone has
the same hardware - doubtfull).
I would think this sort of thing would be easy. Simply decide on a musical
theme (mood, BPM, etc etc), and have at it.
--
Levi Burton
http://www.puresimplicity.net/~ldb/
13 Mar
13 Mar
8:47 p.m.
On Thursday 13 March 2003 06:23 pm, Levi Burton wrote:
Greetings,
I was just curious if anyone on the list has attempted to collaborate
musicly? By "collaborate" I mean sharing of things such as "tracks"
of
audio (I would assume this is the prefered method, unless MIDI is utilized
and everyone has the same hardware - doubtfull).
I would think this sort of thing would be easy. Simply decide on a musical
theme (mood, BPM, etc etc), and have at it.
Well, it would be easy until bandwidth and resources are considered. 44.1
audio would be consume massive resources as far as storage and transfers are
concerned. Perhaps a bad idea. Maybe not, though, if audio data can be
organized in chunks and looped. Another possibility is utilizing Sound Fonts
and MIDI - this would reduce the need for large audio files (you would only
need a large Sound Font).
Just "thinking out loud" =)
--
Levi Burton
http://www.puresimplicity.net/~ldb/
10:31 p.m.
On Thursday 13 March 2003 19:36, Levi Burton wrote:
On Thursday 13 March 2003 06:23 pm, Levi Burton
wrote:
Now I see. I was wondering what the fuss was about. I think by collaborate,
you mean "collaborate through the internet". There is an alternative method
where people are physically in the same location, you know :-)
Larry
Greetings,
I was just curious if anyone on the list has attempted to collaborate
musicly? By "collaborate" I mean sharing of things such as "tracks"
of
audio (I would assume this is the prefered method, unless MIDI is
utilized and everyone has the same hardware - doubtfull).
I would think this sort of thing would be easy. Simply decide on a
musical theme (mood, BPM, etc etc), and have at it.
Well, it would be easy until bandwidth and resources are considered. 44.1
audio would be consume massive resources as far as storage and transfers
are concerned. Perhaps a bad idea. Maybe not, though, if audio data can
be organized in chunks and looped. Another possibility is utilizing Sound
Fonts and MIDI - this would reduce the need for large audio files (you
would only need a large Sound Font).
Just "thinking out loud" =)
14 Mar
14 Mar
9:20 a.m.
On Thursday 13 March 2003 08:26 pm, Larry Troxler wrote:
[...]
Now I see. I was wondering what the fuss was about. I
think by collaborate,
you mean "collaborate through the internet".
Yup. What I was suggesting was not really "real-time" collaboration, though.
More like "here, I got this mono track of some drum loops that I think
accentuate the theme nicely - see what you can do with them", then I take a
listen, and composite some nice noisy synth sounds over them. This is the
type of collaboration I am talking about.
So, you have basically "Source Tracks" and "Composites" where source
tracks
have a particular author, and composite tracks have a group of authors. Once
"Composites" are in a state everyone likes, they could then become
"Source"
tracks providing a platform to build from. Eventually the composition gets
to the point where it cannot progress further, everyone is happy and it is
marked "Final". Then it could be reviewed and what not, showed off to
friends, burned to a CD, have graphics added, whatever.
Basically an iterative process to making music, just not with people in the
same room =)
There is an alternative method
where people are physically in the same location, you
know :-)
Larry
--
Levi Burton
http://www.puresimplicity.net/~ldb/
4:15 a.m.
On Thu, 13 Mar 2003 18:36:14 -0600
Levi Burton <donburton(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote / a écrit:
On Thursday 13 March 2003 06:23 pm, Levi Burton
wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> I was just curious if anyone on the list has attempted to collaborate
> musicly? By "collaborate" I mean sharing of things such as
"tracks" of
> audio (I would assume this is the prefered method, unless MIDI is utilized
> and everyone has the same hardware - doubtfull).
Maybe midi with timidity? So we know what it sounds on other machines. Everybody is free
to change the sounds after.
Anyway I like the idea.
Chords progression may be interesting too, in a GPL-way.
Although I'm wondering if it is really useful to everyone with all the ressources of
books and internet, I really like the idea.
LiGnuxly
Guy CLO~
#219055 http://counter.li.org
-------------------------------------
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/guy.clotilde/
-------------------------------------
8:47 a.m.
Hey.
If I had more time, I would certainly be up for this. It would be good fun,
and knowledge can be combined to make something good.
Regards
Luke.
At 11:36 AM 3/14/2003, you wrote:
On Thursday 13 March 2003 06:23 pm, Levi Burton wrote:
Greetings,
I was just curious if anyone on the list has attempted to collaborate
musicly? By "collaborate" I mean sharing of things such as "tracks"
of
audio (I would assume this is the prefered method, unless MIDI is utilized
and everyone has the same hardware - doubtfull).
I would think this sort of thing would be easy. Simply decide on a musical
theme (mood, BPM, etc etc), and have at it.
Well, it would be easy until bandwidth and resources are considered. 44.1
audio would be consume massive resources as far as storage and transfers are
concerned. Perhaps a bad idea. Maybe not, though, if audio data can be
organized in chunks and looped. Another possibility is utilizing Sound Fonts
and MIDI - this would reduce the need for large audio files (you would only
need a large Sound Font).
Just "thinking out loud" =)
--
Levi Burton
http://www.puresimplicity.net/~ldb/ 
5:56 a.m.
I was just curious if anyone on the list has attempted
to collaborate
musicly? By "collaborate" I mean sharing of things such as "tracks"
of
audio
We have used Audacity to share multitrack projects between collaborators,
distributed on CD-R. Then each person in the band can create their own final
mix if they wish - regardless of computer platform. Our first CD was recorded
at the drummers' house on Win98, then mixed, mastered and burned on Linux. We
used Audacity 0.9x, and Glame for the effects processing, since it was one of
the few GUI editors to support LADSPA at the time.
Cheers
Daniel
6:03 a.m.
On Thu, 13 Mar 2003 18:23:04 -0600, Levi Burton wrote
Greetings,
I was just curious if anyone on the list has attempted to
collaborate musicly? By "collaborate" I mean sharing of things such
as "tracks" of audio (I would assume this is the prefered method,
unless MIDI is utilized and everyone has the same hardware -
doubtfull).
I took part in this last year with some other LAU/LAD people:
http://linart.net/info/autumn02/
It was really interesting, I'd like to do more things like that.
dave
7:04 a.m.
I took part in this last year with some other LAU/LAD
people:
http://linart.net/info/autumn02/
I keep getting broken connections from this site, stopping me downloading the
complete tracks. What I have heard sounds interesting.
I'm just listening to the nebogeo ogg files, and they are excellent.
http://www.pawfal.org/nebogeo/
We really should get some form of Linux-made music demo site together, to show
off what people are doing with this stuff. That could be a very strong form
of advocacy for other musicians, as well as a good music site in its own
right. If anyone's interested in working on this, please get in touch. The
chief obstacle I can forsee would be working out how to pay for the
bandwidth.
Cheers
Daniel
9:10 a.m.
On Friday 14 March 2003 04:56 am, Daniel James wrote:
[...]
We really should get some form of Linux-made music
demo site together, to
show off what people are doing with this stuff. That could be a very strong
form of advocacy for other musicians, as well as a good music site in its
own right. If anyone's interested in working on this, please get in touch.
The chief obstacle I can forsee would be working out how to pay for the
bandwidth.
I was a web-developer (php, apache - you know the drill) for a few years so I
could defnitely lend a hand on the web side of things. I have some ideas for
how a site-map would be organized.
As far as paying for bandwidth - I am dirt poor. Unfortunately any site
related to music is going to be super bandwidth intensive as audio is
notoriously large in file size. Kind of a bummer. Of course membership
would have to be free. In my experience (dealing with non-profits,
associations) the site is usually financed through membership dues - which
works amazing well. Of course, this is not even a remote possiblity in this
case - everything should be free. Perhaps linux distributions could
contribute to the financing if their product is plugged on the site.
Also is the case where there just isn't enough music being made to justify the
expense, but on the other hand this would minimize bandwidth until there is a
large number of artists.
--
Levi Burton
http://www.puresimplicity.net/~ldb/
9:56 a.m.
I was a web-developer (php, apache - you know the
drill) for a few years so
I could defnitely lend a hand on the web side of things. I have some ideas
for how a site-map would be organized.
Thanks for the offer!
As far as paying for bandwidth - I am dirt poor.
I wouldn't want the cost of bandwidth to be met by the site developers alone -
that would seem unfair. Wherever you make your music files available, it's
going to cost you bandwidth somehow.
In my experience (dealing with non-profits,
associations) the site is usually financed through membership dues - which
works amazing well. Of course, this is not even a remote possiblity in
this case - everything should be free.
I don't see that necessarily follows - free software is not free beer. I think
you could offset some cost by selling CDs, but inevitably there would have to
be some kind of membership scheme for musicians. This could work out to be
quite good value if bandwidth is being bought in 'bulk'.
I guess we'd be talking about:
1. a co-lo box with plenty of bandwidth available
2. decent sized web space per member
3. apache with defaults set up for ogg file mimetypes, an icecast server
4. content management system
Perhaps linux distributions could
contribute to the financing if their product is plugged on the site.
I don't think any of the main distros are either focused on multimedia or
cash-rich enough to fund this sort of thing at the moment.
Also is the case where there just isn't enough
music being made to justify
the expense
I think the music is out there, but we'd have to survey the likely demand for
a contribution-based service. I'm thinking along the lines of a web-based
collaborative record label where Linux is the common factor. You could build
in a system of peer review as a form of quality control, or just offer space
to anyone who could contribute - time or money.
Cheers
Daniel
15 Mar
15 Mar
12:35 a.m.
On Fri, 14 Mar 2003 13:47:07 +0000
Daniel James <daniel(a)mondodesigno.com> wrote / a écrit:
I don't see that necessarily follows - free
software is not free beer. I think
you could offset some cost by selling CDs, but inevitably there would have to
be some kind of membership scheme for musicians
If one of the goals is to show non-linux people music made with, shouldn't it be easy
and free at the beginning? With the same goal, is ogg a good idea? Yes I know it's
free as in freedom, and mp3 isn't.
For the bandwidth, maybe it's a stupid idea, but what bout a P2P network?
Cheers.
Guy CLO~
#219055 http://counter.li.org
-------------------------------------
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/guy.clotilde/
-------------------------------------
17 Mar
17 Mar
11:16 a.m.
If one of the goals is to show non-linux people music
made with, shouldn't
it be easy and free at the beginning?
I think it should be free for listeners - but that bandwidth bill still has to
be paid somehow. I guess you could ask for donations from music downloaders,
but I don't think that would cover costs.
With the same goal, is ogg a good
idea? Yes I know it's free as in freedom, and mp3 isn't.
I think you could offer oggs as first choice and then mp3 as an option for
those who want it.
For the bandwidth,
maybe it's a stupid idea, but what bout a P2P network?
It's not a stupid idea, but I don't know how you'd make a clear seperation
between legitimate files that it's OK to redistribute, and unauthorised
copyrighted music - excepting by linking the files to some kind of free music
licence. Or a tag that says 'made with Linux(tm)'
And I'm not sure how it would work to show off the Linux-made music - as I
understand it, people who use P2P are searching for files by known artists. I
guess you could put our music on an FTP site and say 'share this music with
your friends, by any means at your disposal...'
Cheers
Daniel
18 Mar
18 Mar
1:55 a.m.
On/le Mon, 17 Mar 2003 15:06:08 +0000
Daniel James <daniel(a)mondodesigno.com> wrote / a écrit quelque chose
comme:
It's not a stupid idea, but I don't know how
you'd make a clear
seperation between legitimate files that it's OK to redistribute,
and unauthorised copyrighted music - excepting by linking the files
to some kind of free music licence. Or a tag that says 'made with
Linux(tm)'
I never try it, so maybe I'm totally wrong, but I've seen on web page links
pointing like this (don't care about the syntax, it's from my memory):
url:gnutella:my_files.mp3
url:kazaa:my_second_files.mp3
I believe it works under windows, and clicking on the link launches kazaa, with the name
of the file as argument.
It means that the web site juste show the urls, if someone wants to download the file, he
just clicks.
For the unixers, another solution shouldn't be out of reach.
So the files are located on different machines. They have to be connected to the internet,
but so what :)
One advantage is that most P2P let you choose the amount of upload bandwidth you want from
your machine.
Another great advantage is that the more a file is loved, the more it is downloaded and
the more easy to find it on the P2P network! Darwin at his best ;)
I hope I showed clearly my idea. Feel free to ask me to re-formulate if needed (I'm
not a native english speaker).
If I find again the web pages with this sorts of links, I will post the url here.
And I'm not sure how it would work to show off
the Linux-made music
- as I understand it, people who use P2P are searching for files by
known artists.
We can use P2P progs for what they are: legitimate progs. This is just a new and
legitimate way to use them. Slashdot (sorry for the ad) had some articles about this
recently:
"P2P content delivery for Open-Source":
http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/01/29/1823218&mode=thr…
And more "conceptual":
"Convergence of P2P and Grid Predicted":
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/03/04/237235&mode=thread&tid=…
Cheers
Guy CLO~
-----------------------------------------------
LiGnuxly.
#ICQ 37736372
#219055 counter.li.org
-----------------------------------------------
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/guy.clotilde/index.html
-----------------------------------------------
6:59 a.m.
We can use P2P progs for what they are: legitimate
progs. This is just a
new and legitimate way to use them.
"P2P content delivery for Open-Source":
http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/01/29/1823218&mode
=thread&tid=95
This OCN system has possibilities, but I can see a couple of drawbacks:
1. you need a broswer plug-in.
2. you have to licence multimedia content under a Creative Commons licence.
I'd prefer more flexibility than that - I can't tell people they must use this
or that licence, either. Personally, I wouldn't use a CC licence because they
look too much like a lawyers' EULA to me - and we know no-one ever reads
those. If people are to understand their rights and responsibilities relating
to free content, they have to be able to read and understand the licence
within their attention span.
Cheers
Daniel
14 Mar
14 Mar
11:54 a.m.
Anyone on the list who would be interested in hosting their Linux-made music
on some sort of dedicated site, please email me directly with these details:
1. How many MB storage would you require?
2. What would you be prepared to contribute per month for the service (in time
or money)?
3. Are the tracks already available on the internet? If so, please provide
URLs.
4. What kind of genre, if any, is your music best described as?
(I've a feeling there may be a bias towards electronica)
5. Would you be interested in collaborative CD publishing - compilations, demo
CDs etc?
If I get a decent number of responses, I'll compile a report for the list.
Cheers
Daniel
17 Mar
17 Mar
8:29 p.m.
I dont think you'd really have to host all the music, although I agree
it would be nice.
I do my advocacy bit here : http://www.em411.com It's a really nice site
and great community - they even put up with linux nutters there :)
Anyway, they don't host the members music, just provide a way to let
people know you have releases availible, and allow people to comment on
them. It works well. They also do remix competitions, latest software
announcements (I put the last ssm release there :) ) and general forum
banter.
If a specific linux based musician's site was set up, I'd contribute,
definately - but I also think it's good to mix with people who write
music on other OS'es too - it can be enlightening to compare the
differences (it's not all easier on windows/mac these days)
dave
18 Mar
18 Mar
2:12 a.m.
On/le Tue, 18 Mar 2003 00:20:42 +0000
Dave Griffiths <dave(a)pawfal.org> wrote / a écrit quelque chose comme:
I do my advocacy bit here : http://www.em411.com
It's a really nice
site and great community - they even put up with linux nutters there
:)
Yes. Nice site. And I think this is an important point. If the project of free music get
on tracks, we should have a talk with designers in the community (art.gnome.org?
www.kde-look.org ?). I can help a bit on graphics and we recently had a talk here about
it (iriXx?). Of course PHP wizards are needed, too.
Uuuhh I'm too fasthusiastic(tm) ?
Guy CLO~
-----------------------------------------------
LiGnuxly.
#ICQ 37736372
#219055 counter.li.org
-----------------------------------------------
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/guy.clotilde/index.html
-----------------------------------------------
14 Mar
14 Mar
1:32 p.m.
On Friday 14 March 2003 07:59, Levi Burton wrote:
As far as paying for bandwidth - I am dirt poor.
Unfortunately any site
related to music is going to be super bandwidth intensive as audio is
notoriously large in file size. Kind of a bummer. Of course membership
I'm not sure it has to be. To an extent you can trade bandwidth for CPU and
memory resources.
I actually had this idea about six months ago, which I'm not going to have
time to write the software for in the foreseeable future, called MusiCVS.
Basically it would be a way for musicians collaborating on a project to
upload their tracks in some lossless format like SHN, and download Ogg
streams of mixes of the other collaborators' tracks to play to, like a guide
vocal except with other instruments. Ogg has this ability to store a high
bandwidth version of something and strip out a lower bandwidth version for
streaming or whatever, but more interesting is the possibility of allowing
people to actually mix the other collaborators' tracks together using some
web interface that lets you preview your mixes using streaming Oggs. None of
the original files would ever be altered so if people disagreed on a mix you
could have multiple mixes.
It was kind of an ambitious idea and would still be fairly bandwidth intensive
once you got a few projects going, but not as bad as a fully uncompressed WAV
file trading thing. I hope to still pursue it one day if no one else has
implemented it by then.
Rob
9:14 a.m.
On Friday 14 March 2003 03:54 am, Dave Griffiths wrote:
[...]
I took part in this last year with some other LAU/LAD
people:
http://linart.net/info/autumn02/
It was really interesting, I'd like to do more things like that.
dave
This is pretty much exactly what I am proposing. Almost exactly. I like how
everyone provided notes on what they were doing. Perfect. This is in my
opinion the best way to show off what software and people can do - specific
use-cases and success (or no success) stories. A scientific approach (i.e.
here is how to replicate what I did).
Creativity should not be limited by the technology used to create it.
--
Levi Burton
http://www.puresimplicity.net/~ldb/
7:09 a.m.
On Thu, 13 Mar 2003 18:23:04 -0600
Levi Burton <donburton(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Greetings,
I was just curious if anyone on the list has attempted to
collaborate musicly? By "collaborate" I mean sharing of things
such as "tracks" of audio (I would assume this is the prefered
method, unless MIDI is utilized and everyone has the same hardware
- doubtfull).
Another good idea. Some musicians I know well were recently talking
about playing together via Internet -- like you are e.g. in New York
and I'm e.g. in Pekin :-) It was all about using MIDI controllers
I've searched through the Web and found this:
http://www.sreal.com:8000/~div/midi-utilities-for-unix/
------
pipe2net
NetMIDI is a protocol I came up with which sends standard MIDI
messages over a TCP transport. It can be used to send MIDI messages
between different computers, even if they are running different
operating systems. Most of the other utilities here communicate over
FIFOs, but this utility can be used to bridge them to NetMIDI.
Actually, this utility will copy any data from a FIFO to a TCP
connection, so it is not MIDI specific; it is similar to netcat
(which I didn't know about at the time I wrote this).
net2pipe
This utility provides the other half of the connection.
------
Does anyone has experience of using it?
--
Alexandre Prokoudine
ALT Linux Documentation Team
JID: avp(a)altlinux.org
10:41 a.m.
Greetings,
I was just curious if anyone on the list has attempted to
collaborate musicly?
By "collaborate" I mean sharing of things such as "tracks" of
audio (I would
assume this is the prefered method, unless MIDI is utilized and
everyone has
the same hardware - doubtfull).
I would think this sort of thing would be easy. Simply decide on
a musical
theme (mood, BPM, etc etc), and have at it.
Levi,
I've been doing it for about 18 months in the Pro Tools area. (So,
technically, I'm on the list but I'm not doing it with Linux.)
I've found that (for me) it works best when someone has written a song
and is looking for other musicians to spice it up, just like being a hired
hand in a studio situation. I have a number of songs I've done with a
drummer in New York that I've never met. I also worked a bit with a musician
in Europe (The Netherlands) for a while. It's been an immensely rewarding
thing to do.
It has, again in my case, been much harder to try to collaborate like a
band does, where everyone is throwing ideas around and you all come up with
a good way to approach a song. Over the Internet is much slower, and you
cannot read how people feel about things very well through a few emails. For
these reasons, I find it's best to have a good idea what I want people to
do, or what they want me to do.
In the Pro Tools case we share the session files as we all have high
speed access and I have an ftp server. It is impossible to do this through
email. The track files get hung up in mail servers as they are too large.
Cheers,
Mark
7923
days inactive
7928
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
21 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
-
Alexandre Prokoudine -
Daniel James -
Dave Griffiths -
Guy Clotilde -
Guy Daniel CLOTILDE
-
Larry Troxler -
Levi Burton -
Luke Yelavich -
Mark Knecht -
Rob