20 Oct
2010
20 Oct
'10
9:14 p.m.
I've always dual booted, because of Windows games, and for some
Windows audio and music software. Now I have a firewire interface that
only works with Jack under Linux, which is unpleasing.
I decided to install Kubuntu on a virtual machine using Windows
as the host. This is awesome. I'm using a dual head setup, and
put Linux on one monitor full screen, and my main Windows screen
on the other. Vmware allows the mouse to seamlessly glide from
one OS to the other. My firewire interface appears as a well
supported Ensoniq AudioPCI. Too cool. I give Linux a dedicated
stereo pair of the Echo Audiofire8. My machine has 8Gig Ram and
a four core processor. I give half of the ram and two of the four
processors to Linux. I still have two strong 'machines' running at the
same time, and sharing files is easy.
Cygwin was always a possibility, but I'm going to run this setup
now. The Linux box feels like it's running on its own hardware.
Very cool. The basic version of VMware is free now btw.
Virtualbox is another option, but I think VMware has the edge.
Tobiah
21 Oct
21 Oct
1:53 a.m.
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 12:16:00PM -0700, Tobiah wrote:
I've always dual booted, because of Windows games,
and for some
Windows audio and music software. Now I have a firewire interface that
only works with Jack under Linux, which is unpleasing.
I decided to install Kubuntu on a virtual machine using Windows
as the host. This is awesome. I'm using a dual head setup, and
put Linux on one monitor full screen, and my main Windows screen
on the other. Vmware allows the mouse to seamlessly glide from
one OS to the other. My firewire interface appears as a well
supported Ensoniq AudioPCI. Too cool. I give Linux a dedicated
stereo pair of the Echo Audiofire8. My machine has 8Gig Ram and
a four core processor. I give half of the ram and two of the four
processors to Linux. I still have two strong 'machines' running at the
same time, and sharing files is easy.
Cygwin was always a possibility, but I'm going to run this setup
now. The Linux box feels like it's running on its own hardware.
Very cool. The basic version of VMware is free now btw.
Virtualbox is another option, but I think VMware has the edge.
Cool idea, though I would have run the Windoze in the VM box, and had a real operating
system running on the hardware. But yeah, virtualization is a LOT more convenient than
dual boot for those who need multiple OSen.
-ken
1:59 a.m.
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 7:53 PM, Ken Restivo <ken(a)restivo.org> wrote:
Cool idea, though I would have run the Windoze in the VM box, and had a
real operating system running on the hardware. But yeah, virtualization is a
LOT more convenient than dual boot for those who need multiple OSen.
... Or even just a lower-overhead operating system ... run an extremely
stripped-down linux install that really only exists to host VMWare as the
native OS, and then run both of the heavier-weight linux and MS systems
virtually
-----
Luke Peterson
-ken
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
3:12 a.m.
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 7:53 PM, Ken Restivo <ken(a)restivo.org> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 12:16:00PM -0700, Tobiah
wrote:
> I've always dual booted, because of Windows games, and for some
> Windows audio and music software. Now I have a firewire interface that
> only works with Jack under Linux, which is unpleasing.
[ ... VMware story elided ... ]
Cool idea, though I would have run the Windoze in the
VM box, and had a real operating system running on the hardware. But yeah, virtualization
is a LOT more convenient than dual boot for those who need multiple OSen.
If (and only if) you can run the Windows software inside Wine, you
will get MUCH better performance than you will from virtualization. I
do appreciate that this is not an option for a lot of desirable
Windows software, but the list gets smaller every month.
4:03 p.m.
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 6:12 PM, Paul Davis <paul(a)linuxaudiosystems.com> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 7:53 PM, Ken Restivo
<ken(a)restivo.org> wrote:
I run VMWare everyday. Every benchmark I've run runs within 1% of the
the same machine running Windows 7 native. For my money Wine, while
very well intentioned, isn't worth trying to to shave out .5%.
The biggest advantage I get from VMWare and am not sure I'd ever get
from Wine is that the main program I have to run in Windows
(TradeStation) isn't multi-threaded. Under Windows on my 6 core/12
thread i7-980x I don't use more than 2 threads running TradeStation.
(1 for TS, essentially 1 for Win 7 supporting it.) Running VMWare
under Gentoo I often run 5 copies of VMWare which equates to 10
threads leaving 2 threads for Gentoo to control all the hardware. I
don't think Wine will _ever_ run 5 copies in parallel.
Granted, this work is heavily computational and not typical of
anything I do in the audio area, but VMWare eliminated my looking Wine
for a long, long time.
I haven't bothered much with audio on that machine so I cannot say how
well apps like Kontakt might work, but audio output does work so
watching NetFlix, etc., works perfectly.
- Mark
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 12:16:00PM -0700, Tobiah
wrote:
> I've always dual booted, because of Windows games, and for some
> Windows audio and music software. Now I have a firewire interface that
> only works with Jack under Linux, which is unpleasing.
[ ... VMware story elided ... ]
Cool idea, though I would have run the Windoze in
the VM box, and had a real operating system running on the hardware. But yeah,
virtualization is a LOT more convenient than dual boot for those who need multiple OSen.
If (and only if) you can run the Windows software inside Wine, you
will get MUCH better performance than you will from virtualization. I
do appreciate that this is not an option for a lot of desirable
Windows software, but the list gets smaller every month. 
4:35 p.m.
There are some things I'll do with WINE, like run the PokerStars software
under Linux, but for more and more things, I have been using a virtual machine
using Oracle's VirtualBox software rather than VMware. I've found VMware
to be a bit more difficult to install and maintain, where VirtualBox has
been very simple to use. It can be found at http://www.virtualbox.org/
--
======================================================================
Joe Hartley - UNIX/network Consultant - jh(a)brainiac.com
Without deviation from the norm, "progress" is not possible. - FZappa
4:48 p.m.
I too recommend VB if it comes to having to virtualise- it seemed a
bit faster than VMW last time I looked at the two and is mostly FOSS
unlike VMW.
There are actually some games and apps that run FASTER under
Linux/Wine than under real Windows, believe it or not, but nothing
compares to 'real' (or virtualised) Windows for compatibility of
course but this fact does bode well for ReactOS. Maybe wine and
reactos will be a better win32 than XP in a decade? Its funny how MS
have done nothing to stop these projects but then again I suppose it
is spreading the MS ways and they'd prob prefer people to tun reactos
over Linux/BSD I'd imagine. Better fake than no MS?
I've been Linux only for many years and as time passes I can happily
recommend more and more people ditch Bills OS, its annoyances, taxes
and their three letter agency buddies. I think I'm safe in saying this
is the general sentiment of this list. Windows is just a legacy OS I'm
paid to support- if Free Software got outlawed I'd run OSX instead if
there was nothing better. I'd say Windows is better than Linux and OSX
for games but if thats what you want get a console and spare yourself
the hassle and cash of Windows gaming.
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 3:35 PM, Joe Hartley <jh(a)brainiac.com> wrote:
There are some things I'll do with WINE, like run
the PokerStars software
under Linux, but for more and more things, I have been using a virtual machine
using Oracle's VirtualBox software rather than VMware. I've found VMware
to be a bit more difficult to install and maintain, where VirtualBox has
been very simple to use. It can be found at http://www.virtualbox.org/
--
======================================================================
Joe Hartley - UNIX/network Consultant - jh(a)brainiac.com
Without deviation from the norm, "progress" is not possible. - FZappa
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
29 Oct
29 Oct
11:18 a.m.
Hi Mark,
On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 07:03:02 -0700
Mark Knecht <markknecht(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I haven't bothered much with audio on that machine so I cannot say how
well apps like Kontakt might work, but audio output does work so
watching NetFlix, etc., works perfectly.
How exactly did you get audio to work from within the windows appliance?
I've tried connecting the alsa default device as well as installing
netjack2 into the appliance to no avail.
I can't for the life of me figure out why netjack2 won't work. I mean,
it registers itself as client, JackRouter shows up in my windows apps
as output driver but playing yields almost a sine-wave sound and I
can't get anything back into the vm.
21 Oct
21 Oct
5:38 p.m.
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 09:12:04PM -0400, Paul Davis wrote:
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 7:53 PM, Ken Restivo
<ken(a)restivo.org> wrote:
i actually doubt that you get better performance with wine.
all of wines synchronisation primitives (except critical sections, iirc)
are serialized through wineserver. and involve heavy ipc.
wine focusses on correctness and modeling everything using posix.
it probably depends on where your bottlenecks are.
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 12:16:00PM -0700, Tobiah
wrote:
> I've always dual booted, because of Windows games, and for some
> Windows audio and music software. Now I have a firewire interface that
> only works with Jack under Linux, which is unpleasing.
[ ... VMware story elided ... ]
Cool idea, though I would have run the Windoze in
the VM box, and had a real operating system running on the hardware. But yeah,
virtualization is a LOT more convenient than dual boot for those who need multiple OSen.
If (and only if) you can run the Windows software inside Wine, you
will get MUCH better performance than you will from virtualization. I
do appreciate that this is not an option for a lot of desirable
Windows software, but the list gets smaller every month. _______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
--
torben Hohn
7:56 p.m.
Cool idea, though I would have run the Windoze in the
VM box, and had a real operating system running on the hardware. But yeah, virtualization
is a LOT more convenient than dual boot for those who need multiple OSen.
-ken
I need non-jack support for my Audiofire8 and MIDI input needs to
go to Finale. I want Reaper and my games to run on the hardware.
I'd love to ditch Windows like most of you, but the things that
keep me anchored to it are things that I can pass to the Linux
virtual machine much easier than I can the other way around.
28 Oct
28 Oct
4:01 a.m.
After recent successes (
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/pipermail/linux-audio-dev/2010-October/029552.h…
http://nielsmayer.com/meego/meego-handset-ia32-1.0.80.9.20100706.1-sdk-pre0…
) getting meego running under Fedora using http://www.linux-kvm.org/
and http://www.qemu.org/ I was looking up how to solve the
networking/routing issue when I found this:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WindowsXPUnderQemuHowTo
Which inspired me to try it out... following these directions, e.g.
gnulem-105-~/windows-qemu> qemu-img create -f qcow windows.img 6G
Formatting 'windows.img', fmt=qcow size=6442450944 encryption=off
gnulem-109-~/windows-qemu> qemu -localtime -cdrom /dev/dvd -m 1024
-boot d windows.img
results in an ever-growing file
-rw-r--r-- 1 npm npm 632M 2010-10-27 18:50 windows.img
And a reminder of why i hate windows -- installs take forever and
require multiple reboots:
http://nielsmayer.com/meego/loading-win-xp-in-qemu.png
http://nielsmayer.com/meego/setup-win-xp-in-qemu.png
http://nielsmayer.com/meego/still-installing-win-xp-after-reboot-1.png
... and hopefully, eventually, in a few hours (the "36 minutes" from
the installer is bogus) I'll have my own legal copy of win xp running
on linux (from an old system restoration disk i had from an old and no
longer working laptop).... of course, to be able to use windows,
without puking all over the DOS shell, I'll have to install cygwin.
Which is pretty perverse: Running windows in a kvm so you can have
xemacs, bash, xterms from windows on linux..... It would be
interesting to see how well Windows audio production programs run
using this technique instead of Wine.
A few more interesting links...
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SeamlessVirtualization
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=2062234#post2062234
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KVM
http://compsoc.dur.ac.uk/~djw/qemu.html
-- Niels
http://nielsmayer.com
6:57 p.m.
On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:01 PM, Niels Mayer <nielsmayer(a)gmail.com> wrote:
<SNIP>
It would be
interesting to see how well Windows audio production programs run
using this technique instead of Wine.
Works great for certain applications that aren't overly hardware
dependent. If the app must have access to specific audio hardware (a
specific sound card or MIDI access) then in my experience it's hit and
miss.
I use VMWare where I have about a dozen Win XP and Win 7 appliances
that I use for different things. The best thing about this approach
(to me - certainly not for others) is that I can back up the
appliances across my network to multiple servers. If my main machine
completely dies I reinstall Linux and VMWare, copy the backups for
Windows back and I'm up and running.
- Mark
29 Oct
29 Oct
6:22 p.m.
On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:01 PM, Niels Mayer <nielsmayer(a)gmail.com> wrote:
http://nielsmayer.com/meego/loading-win-xp-in-qemu.png
http://nielsmayer.com/meego/setup-win-xp-in-qemu.png
http://nielsmayer.com/meego/still-installing-win-xp-after-reboot-1.png
Got it all running, networking works, sound seems to work,
http://cygwin.com is all setup (SSH, xemacs, bash, xterm) && still
updating a zillion microsoft security updates to "Win XP Pro Media
Center Edition" (it's a legal copy of windows XP from an old broken
laptop, so i re-registered and now ms-updates work within the virtual
windows). Eventually, I'll fire up an old copy of Native Instruments
"traktor" 3 and see how well audio actually works. Seems easy enough
to send audio to a digital out on the default ALSA card where windows
sounds output, and run that into the digital input of a
jackd-controlled card under linux...
The nice thing about using Media Center Edition of XP is
tablet/touchscreen support. With that, you can skip the mouse-grab
typical of normal qemu runs and get a normal window/mouse interaction
with the rest of the desktop. See qemu(1) manual page, and launch
script below for details.
Result: http://nielsmayer.com/meego/qemu-finally-running-winxp.png
.....................................................
#!/bin/sh
## (1) "-smb /media/disk"
## see
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WindowsXPUnderQemuHowTo#Sharing%20Files%2…
## on windows, do: "net use e: \\10.0.2.2\qemu_share"
##
## (2) "-usb -usbdevice tablet"
## see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WindowsXPUnderQemuHowTo#USB%20Tablet%20Em…
## allows use of qemu w/o locking the mouse in the window and ctl-alt
to unlock...
##
## (3) "-redir tcp:3389::3389"
## see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SeamlessVirtualization
##
## (4) "-vga std"
## "std"
## Standard VGA card with Bochs VBE extensions. If
## your guest OS supports the VESA 2.0 VBE extensions
## (e.g. Windows XP) and if you want to use high
## resolution modes (>= 1280x1024x16) then you should
## use this option.
##
export QEMU_AUDIO_DRV="alsa"
cd /media
exec qemu -soundhw sb16 -localtime -smb disk -usb -usbdevice tablet
-vga std -redir tcp:3389::3389 -m 1024 ~/windows-qemu/windows.img
........................................
-- Niels
http://nielsmayer.com
PS: Dumb question: does anybody know how to get qemu to start up from
an actual disk, rather than a disk image? I'd like to plug in my old
dead laptop's drive via USB and have qemu boot directly off that
drive, giving me my old windows/linux lapburner (due to 3.4Ghz Pentium
4 CPU) back again. All the docs on qemu i've read talk about using a
disk image only, rather than pointing the virtual OS at its own
specific disk-drive. Yes, obviously I could DD the whole disk into an
image and run that -- if I had enough disk space to hold an image of
that disk right now.
5213
days inactive
5222
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
13 comments
11 participants
participants (11)
-
allcoms -
David Santamauro -
Joe Hartley -
Ken Restivo -
Leonardo Palomares -
Luke Peterson -
Mark Knecht -
Niels Mayer -
Paul Davis -
Tobiah -
torbenh