9 Mar
2006
9 Mar
'06
5:01 p.m.
Hi Carlo,
I think that you have presented a couple valid points. This motion, however,
is something that will be only as successful as community wants it to be.
FWIW, we could talk about incorporating your idea into the Linuxaudio.org
mission as long as the two remain within the same scope. This way we the two
could mutually benefit and in the long-run through exposure encourage others
to adopt similar (or preferably same) strategy.
Best wishes,
Ico
-----Original Message-----
From: linux-audio-user-bounces(a)music.columbia.edu [mailto:linux-audio-
user-bounces(a)music.columbia.edu] On Behalf Of Carlo Capocasa
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 4:42 AM
To: linux-audio-user(a)music.columbia.edu
Subject: [linux-audio-user] Marketing Free Music
Yep, you heard me right. We need to MARKET our free music. Just because
it's free doesn't mean we don't have to work to make it acceptable to
the general public. And, we've got to convince people to press those
donation buttons once (preferably twice) a day.
Right now, as Cesare pointed out in a previous post, CDs are looked at
to have enough added value to pay 20 bucks to get a booklet and liner
notes. Clearly, it's not the booklet and the liner notes. It's a ritual.
a 'CD' is kind of like a diploma... We live in a culture where people
just don't believe in themselves anymore. They need proof that an
external authority has approved this whatchmahallit and hence it is
'good' (ie they may judge it 'good' and trust a lot of people will
agree)
College degrees. Course diplomas. Organic food. Plastic toy safety.
Certificates, certificates, certificates, everywhere you look. It
appears people somehow have this mysterious 'them' in their heads and
believe they must appease them. As soon as you act like an authority you
become a part of the mysterious 'them' and hence have credibility.
Sad, but true.
Of course there's a bunch of people out there with a mission to change
that... There's Serge Kahili King (http://www.huna.org) and Neale Donald
Walsch (http://www.cwg.com) to name two. They're all about 'What do YOU
think? It's about you! Start thinking!' (actually speaking of thinking
there's also Bob Proctor (http://www.bobproctor.com) but watch out the
guys a REALLY GOOD salesperson.
So these guys are all working to create a free society and that's what
we should do to... A free society is one where people actually work to
find out what suits them, what they want in life, their personal taste,
etc. In other words, freedom of mental SERFDOM.
But I do find it helpful to work with what people believe NOW in order
to lead their minds somewhere. So we should create just that... logos,
logos, logos. Brands. Marketing.
We find our short, catchy message and then repeat it til the sun goes
down. And up. And down. And up. And down.
"Downloadable music is superior to store-bought CDs"
"The OGG Vorbis file format is a sign of quality."
"Music that costs something is worthless."
"You are under a moral obligation to donate when you download music
for free and listen to it regularly."
OGG Vorbis needs a logo. "VORBIS Seal of quality." Kind of like 'Intel
Inside'. People don't exactly know what this 'Intel' is that is inside
but simply assume they need it. People don't know exactly what this
'VORBIS' is but assume it stands for freedom, love, good feelings...
I believe the best 'brand' and 'credible authority figure' we can create
is simply 'Free Music'. You get some free music and you know what to
expect, and you know what is expected from you. Like in a well-known
kingdom in the middle ages (some things never change).
So we have just created a music label that is truly free, that anyone
can participate in... That's pretty Sweet :) Now we're REALLY replacing
the middleman, not only in terms of distribution but in terms of
authority!
Anyone wanna gimme a hand? What do YOU think of this long-ass post? :)
;)
Carlo
9 Mar
9 Mar
6:27 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Marketing Free Music
> "Downloadable music is superior to
store-bought CDs"
i tend do disagree. since when i buy a CD i have a nice backup copy, ,and the artwork. its
amazing that apple has sold 1 billion lossy tunes without a hardbackup, and then
integrated all sorts of 'make the user orphan/lose their music' defaults into
itunes and their policy. and all this along with selling a player without FM radio (since
they could get the music for 'free' that way) this is what we're up
against...
ideally id like to not have to think about downloading it. for ex maybe i can just
dedicate 20GB of my HD and 20% of upstream bandwidth to some kind of 'freenet'
backend to a CC music database.. then i dont have to deal with curating a collection, but
know i can still listen to disheled_mutt-a-0-2932-1266.ogg even when disheveledmutt.net is
down, yagetme?
> "The OGG Vorbis file format is a sign of
quality."
the logo should be some kind of upright shiny egg, with maybe a crack or two in it and
some red stuff inside (obligatory Turing nod)
> "Music that costs something is
worthless."
it is pretty disappointing that the only way i CAN pay for the music i want is buy the CDs
one at a time as they come out, and pay their price again in shipping to order from a few
boutique stores in London, since the incumbent music industry seems to have forgotten
anything it ever knew about artistic diversity or a&R
> "You are under a moral obligation to donate
when you download music
> for free and listen to it regularly."
says who. g-d? i disagree
>
> OGG Vorbis needs a logo. "VORBIS Seal of quality." Kind of like
'Intel
> Inside'. People don't exactly know what this 'Intel' is that is
inside
> but simply assume they need it. People don't know exactly what this
> 'VORBIS' is but assume it stands for freedom, love, good feelings...
yeah. we can wrap up all sorts of positive emotions into a logo and then sell it to people
for huge margins, then stop worrying about how to make money since our society will be
replaced with one that runs on pure emotion and compassion. how about we callit the UTOPIA
initiative?
>
> I believe the best 'brand' and 'credible authority figure' we can
create
> is simply 'Free Music'.
if i had money, id think about buying some of the music i have on my hd, but it would be
pretty much impossible to track down more than 5% of it. so this is more or less why i
mainly support free music., the other option is difficult, and inaffordable,.
You get some free music and you know what to
> expect, and you know what is expected from you. Like in a well-known
> kingdom in the middle ages (some things never change).
>
> So we have just created a music label that is truly free, that anyone
> can participate in... That's pretty Sweet :) Now we're REALLY replacing
> the middleman, not only in terms of distribution but in terms of
> authority!
im pretty sure archive.org is what you describe. its also filled with crap. i like the
servicse that middlemen like pirate radio, DJs, and mp3 release group 'brand
names' provide. sifting thru the crap is a fulltime job. if you want to get started on
some kind of 'digg' for CC audio, i might be interested...
>
> Anyone wanna gimme a hand? What do YOU think of this long-ass post? :)
>
>
> ;)
>
> Carlo
10 Mar
10 Mar
4:20 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Marketing Free Music
Sup Cdr!
That is false. There is way more free music downloadable on-line than
could fit into any record shop. If a music salesperson charges you
up-front he is a rip-off and a fraud. You want nothing to do with him.
You want to download the music up front. You WANT to donate as much as
you possibly can when you have done so.
You are under a moral obligation to donate when you download music
for free and listen to it regularly.
You are under a moral obligation to donate when you download music
for free and listen to it regularly.
You are under a moral obligation to donate when you download music
for free and listen to it regularly.
You are under a moral obligation to donate when you download music
for free and listen to it regularly.
You are under a moral obligation to donate when you download music
for free and listen to it regularly.
Believing it yet? I'll buy you a beer if you read that 100 times every
day for a week :)
You are a positive thinker. You are a positive thinker. You believe in
yourself. You believe in yourself. You can make a difference. You can
make a difference.
i tend do disagree. since when i buy a CD i have a
nice backup copy, ,and the artwork. its amazing that apple has sold 1 billion lossy tunes
without a hardbackup, and then integrated all sorts of 'make the user orphan/lose
their music' defaults into itunes and their policy. and all this along with selling a
player without FM radio (since they could get the music for 'free' that way) this
is what we're up against...
Given your nickname, you would now, wouldn't you :)
Seriously, the whole point is not what anyone (including you) considers
true now, but what we WANT people to consider true in order to benefit
our movement. Of course, if you take a rational standpoint, physical CDs
have their strengths and weaknesses, and downloadable music has their
strenghts and weaknessess. But we're not taking a rational standpoint
now, we're taking a marketing standpoint. And all that matters from this
perspective is that we CAUSE people to believe what is beneficial to US.
(In other words, is beneficial to society, from our unique perspective).
From this standpoint:
Downloadable music from the freemusic network is superior to CDs.
Downloadable music from the freemusic network is superior to CDs.
Downloadable music from the freemusic network is superior to CDs.
Believing it yet? ;)
ideally id like to not have to think about downloading
it. for ex maybe i can just dedicate 20GB of my HD and 20% of upstream bandwidth to some
kind of 'freenet' backend to a CC music database.. then i dont have to deal with
curating a collection, but know i can still listen to disheled_mutt-a-0-2932-1266.ogg even
when disheveledmutt.net is down, yagetme?
Freemusic servers are never down. There is beautiful artwork and liner
notes on our shiny, beautiful, extremely cool web sites. We promise to
never take down our music (or to put it back up when the public
demands). There is no need for a backup, WE are your backup. We are
infinetly cooler to anything of the corporate ass-wipes that put out CD
music. You don't like CD music. You like downloadable freemusic. You
look for the OGG Vorbis freemusic logo before listening.
>>"The OGG Vorbis file format is a sign of
quality."
the logo should be some kind of upright shiny egg,
with maybe a crack or two in it and some red stuff inside (obligatory Turing nod)
Let's make a contest! Submissions? I suck at designing. I tried to make
a logo but it sucked. Maybe if I try again. Keep in mind the logo must
be 'cool'. Appealing.
>"Music
that costs something is worthless."
it is pretty disappointing that the only way i CAN pay for the music i want is buy the
CDs one at a time as they come out, and pay their price again in shipping to order from a
few boutique stores in London, since the incumbent music industry seems to have forgotten
anything it ever knew about artistic diversity or a&R >"You
are under a moral obligation to donate when you download music
>for free and listen to it regularly."
says who. g-d? i disagree >OGG Vorbis
needs a logo. "VORBIS Seal of quality." Kind of like 'Intel
>Inside'. People don't exactly know what this 'Intel' is that is
inside
>but simply assume they need it. People don't know exactly what this
>'VORBIS' is but assume it stands for freedom, love, good feelings...
yeah. we can wrap up all sorts of positive emotions into a logo and then sell it to
people for huge margins, then stop worrying about how to make money since our society will
be replaced with one that runs on pure emotion and compassion. how about we callit the
UTOPIA initiative? >I believe
the best 'brand' and 'credible authority figure' we can create
>is simply 'Free Music'.
if i had money, id think about buying some of the music i have on my hd, but it would be
pretty much impossible to track down more than 5% of it. so this is more or less why i
mainly support free music., the other option is difficult, and inaffordable,. im pretty sure archive.org is what you describe. its
also filled with crap. i like the servicse that middlemen like pirate radio, DJs, and mp3
release group 'brand names' provide. sifting thru the crap is a fulltime job. if
you want to get started on some kind of 'digg' for CC audio, i might be
interested...
This thought is slowly disappearing from your mind. You know that
archive.org is filled with amazingly beautiful music and you will from
now on look only in the right places. You like free music. You adore
free music. Free music is the only kind that exists.
Carlo
4:30 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Marketing Free Music
I think that you have presented a couple valid points.
This motion, however,
is something that will be only as successful as community wants it to be.
FWIW, we could talk about incorporating your idea into the Linuxaudio.org
mission as long as the two remain within the same scope. This way we the two
could mutually benefit and in the long-run through exposure encourage others
to adopt similar (or preferably same) strategy.
Sup Ico! I would absolutely LOVE to integrate this one with
linuxaudio.org. The more integrated the more powerful. This thing will
be, as all free movements, a matter of network effects. The more sites
with the free music logo and working the free music way, the better! The
more support, the better! Thanks!
Carlo
4:49 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Marketing Free Music
On 3/10/06, Carlo Capocasa <capocasa(a)gmx.net> wrote:
Let's get started! I am ready... Are you?
My design skills suck, and I can't even do SVG stuff in Inkscape or
whatever, so there goes my idea of using SVG, oh well. I'll do a
hi-res idea in Gimp... My skills are crap, as I said, but I think we
should indeed have a competition and have votes of some kind to see
what everyone thinks about each submission.
BTW,
Digg for music would be cool! I don't know that Digg's source is
available, but it sure would be easily adaptable, I think. We'd still
need a big host for it though.
Dana
I think that
you have presented a couple valid points. This motion, however,
is something that will be only as successful as community wants it to be.
FWIW, we could talk about incorporating your idea into the Linuxaudio.org
mission as long as the two remain within the same scope. This way we the two
could mutually benefit and in the long-run through exposure encourage others
to adopt similar (or preferably same) strategy.
Sup Ico! I would absolutely LOVE to integrate this one with
linuxaudio.org. The more integrated the more powerful. This thing will
be, as all free movements, a matter of network effects. The more sites
with the free music logo and working the free music way, the better! The
more support, the better! Thanks!
Carlo 
5:37 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Marketing Free Music
Dana Olson wrote:
On 3/10/06, Carlo Capocasa <capocasa(a)gmx.net>
wrote:
Let's get started! I am ready... Are you?
My design skills suck, and I can't even do SVG stuff in Inkscape or
whatever, so there goes my idea of using SVG, oh well. I'll do a
hi-res idea in Gimp... My skills are crap, as I said, but I think we
should indeed have a competition and have votes of some kind to see
what everyone thinks about each submission.
BTW,
Digg for music would be cool! I don't know that Digg's source is
available, but it sure would be easily adaptable, I think. We'd still
need a big host for it though.
Dana
Dana,
I don't believe that emphasizing the ogg choice is as important. Yes,
ogg quality is superior but there are a lot of devices that can't play ogg.
To provide both is enough effort.
FLAC will be the obvious choice in just a few years, or months.
Think about this: If I want to print a cd, let's say the minimum
quantity (500 copies), the costs are around 800$ for the bare bone jewel
box. Here in Italy (and nothing is cheap here ATM) I can have a hosting
service for 30 euros/year with unlimited space. Or you can host your
music on archive.org and such for free. So, what are we talking about?
You can provide mp3s, oggs and FLACs of your whole discography.
And anyway, to say we're different because we use ogg and putting a logo
on our website is just a marketing trick. These are the kind of tricks
that big media use to brainwash people. I don't want to be a part of this.
c.
--
www.cesaremarilungo.com
I think
that you have presented a couple valid points. This motion, however,
is something that will be only as successful as community wants it to be.
FWIW, we could talk about incorporating your idea into the Linuxaudio.org
mission as long as the two remain within the same scope. This way we the two
could mutually benefit and in the long-run through exposure encourage others
to adopt similar (or preferably same) strategy.
Sup Ico! I would absolutely LOVE to integrate this one with
linuxaudio.org. The more integrated the more powerful. This thing will
be, as all free movements, a matter of network effects. The more sites
with the free music logo and working the free music way, the better! The
more support, the better! Thanks!
Carlo
6:02 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Marketing Free Music
On 3/10/06, Cesare Marilungo <cesare(a)poeticstudios.com> wrote:
Dana Olson wrote:
Okay, so stick to MP3 and other patent-encumbered formats if you like.
The world doesn't need open formats I guess.
On 3/10/06, Carlo Capocasa
<capocasa(a)gmx.net> wrote:
Let's get started! I am ready... Are you?
My design skills suck, and I can't even do SVG stuff in Inkscape or
whatever, so there goes my idea of using SVG, oh well. I'll do a
hi-res idea in Gimp... My skills are crap, as I said, but I think we
should indeed have a competition and have votes of some kind to see
what everyone thinks about each submission.
BTW,
Digg for music would be cool! I don't know that Digg's source is
available, but it sure would be easily adaptable, I think. We'd still
need a big host for it though.
Dana
Dana,
I don't believe that emphasizing the ogg choice is as important. Yes,
ogg quality is superior but there are a lot of devices that can't play ogg.
To provide both is enough effort.
FLAC will be the obvious choice in just a few years, or months.
Think about this: If I want to print a cd, let's say the minimum
quantity (500 copies), the costs are around 800$ for the bare bone jewel
box. Here in Italy (and nothing is cheap here ATM) I can have a hosting
service for 30 euros/year with unlimited space. Or you can host your
music on archive.org and such for free. So, what are we talking about?
You can provide mp3s, oggs and FLACs of your whole discography.
And anyway, to say we're different because we use ogg and putting a logo
on our website is just a marketing trick. These are the kind of tricks
that big media use to brainwash people. I don't want to be a part of this.
c.
--
www.cesaremarilungo.com
I think
that you have presented a couple valid points. This motion, however,
is something that will be only as successful as community wants it to be.
FWIW, we could talk about incorporating your idea into the Linuxaudio.org
mission as long as the two remain within the same scope. This way we the two
could mutually benefit and in the long-run through exposure encourage others
to adopt similar (or preferably same) strategy.
Sup Ico! I would absolutely LOVE to integrate this one with
linuxaudio.org. The more integrated the more powerful. This thing will
be, as all free movements, a matter of network effects. The more sites
with the free music logo and working the free music way, the better! The
more support, the better! Thanks!
Carlo
6:16 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Marketing Free Music
Dana Olson wrote:
On 3/10/06, Cesare Marilungo
<cesare(a)poeticstudios.com> wrote:
I haven't said so, Dana.
I just said that I wouldn't market my music as better just because I
provide only the ogg files.
Isn't FLAC an open format also?
Can you compile the ogg library on Windows? And Pure Data? And can you
compile Ardour on MacOS X?
Aren't Windows and Os X patent-encumbered?
I'm so thankful that my 5 years old iBook (the hd is so small I can't
make it dual boot with gnu/linux) can be used as an hard disk recording
system with jack, Ardour, ecasound (which is great, btw).
c.
--
www.cesaremarilungo.com
Dana Olson wrote:
Okay, so stick to MP3 and other patent-encumbered formats if you like.
The world doesn't need open formats I guess.
On 3/10/06, Carlo Capocasa
<capocasa(a)gmx.net> wrote:
Dana,
I don't believe that emphasizing the ogg choice is as important. Yes,
ogg quality is superior but there are a lot of devices that can't play ogg.
To provide both is enough effort.
FLAC will be the obvious choice in just a few years, or months.
Think about this: If I want to print a cd, let's say the minimum
quantity (500 copies), the costs are around 800$ for the bare bone jewel
box. Here in Italy (and nothing is cheap here ATM) I can have a hosting
service for 30 euros/year with unlimited space. Or you can host your
music on archive.org and such for free. So, what are we talking about?
You can provide mp3s, oggs and FLACs of your whole discography.
And anyway, to say we're different because we use ogg and putting a logo
on our website is just a marketing trick. These are the kind of tricks
that big media use to brainwash people. I don't want to be a part of this.
c.
--
www.cesaremarilungo.com
>I think that you have presented a couple valid
points. This motion, however,
>is something that will be only as successful as community wants it to be.
>FWIW, we could talk about incorporating your idea into the Linuxaudio.org
>mission as long as the two remain within the same scope. This way we the two
>could mutually benefit and in the long-run through exposure encourage others
>to adopt similar (or preferably same) strategy.
>
>
>
>
Sup Ico! I would absolutely LOVE to integrate this one with
linuxaudio.org. The more integrated the more powerful. This thing will
be, as all free movements, a matter of network effects. The more sites
with the free music logo and working the free music way, the better! The
more support, the better! Thanks!
Carlo
Let's get started! I am ready... Are you?
My design skills suck, and I can't even do SVG stuff in Inkscape or
whatever, so there goes my idea of using SVG, oh well. I'll do a
hi-res idea in Gimp... My skills are crap, as I said, but I think we
should indeed have a competition and have votes of some kind to see
what everyone thinks about each submission.
BTW,
Digg for music would be cool! I don't know that Digg's source is
available, but it sure would be easily adaptable, I think. We'd still
need a big host for it though.
Dana
6778
days inactive
6779
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
7 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
-
Carlo Capocasa -
cdr -
Cesare Marilungo -
Dana Olson -
ico