21 Jul
2012
21 Jul
'12
1:12 p.m.
Hi, I was wondering, what can we non-dev users do when our favorite
piece of FOSS software is lacking a little feature, but one that makes
the software for us of little or no use?
I'm thinking of seq24 not working, since a year or so, with JACK
Transport - which for an app like seq24 makes it almost useless. It
really itches me and I'd like to do what's in my power to help fix it.
I was thinking, since this would be (I think) a few hours of devs
work, couldn't I/we raise some money to pay a dev to do it? How would
I/we do it?
In long term thinking, we could have a site where users propose a bug,
devs name a price for it, and when the money raising reaches that
quantity, the dev starts to work on it and when he fixes it he recieves
the money. Basically a mix of kickstarter and amazon's mechanical turk.
I think this could work quite well for such bugs, which often appear in
awesome but semi-abandoned software (freewheeling and kluppe for
example come to [my] mind). I totally get that the original devs may
have lost interest and moved on in life, but being FOSS, the code is
there and maybe a few paid hours of a dev could get it working/add a
basic feature you really need.
Thoughts?
renato
21 Jul
21 Jul
1:31 p.m.
just FYI that particular bug in seq24 has been fixed, and a patch has
been posted in at least one location. the problem is that it has not
been picked up by whoever is maintaining seq24.
On 7/21/12, renato <rennabh(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hi, I was wondering, what can we non-dev users do when
our favorite
piece of FOSS software is lacking a little feature, but one that makes
the software for us of little or no use?
I'm thinking of seq24 not working, since a year or so, with JACK
Transport - which for an app like seq24 makes it almost useless. It
really itches me and I'd like to do what's in my power to help fix it.
I was thinking, since this would be (I think) a few hours of devs
work, couldn't I/we raise some money to pay a dev to do it? How would
I/we do it?
In long term thinking, we could have a site where users propose a bug,
devs name a price for it, and when the money raising reaches that
quantity, the dev starts to work on it and when he fixes it he recieves
the money. Basically a mix of kickstarter and amazon's mechanical turk.
I think this could work quite well for such bugs, which often appear in
awesome but semi-abandoned software (freewheeling and kluppe for
example come to [my] mind). I totally get that the original devs may
have lost interest and moved on in life, but being FOSS, the code is
there and maybe a few paid hours of a dev could get it working/add a
basic feature you really need.
Thoughts?
renato
1:46 p.m.
On Sat, 21 Jul 2012 07:31:51 -0400
Paul Davis <paul(a)linuxaudiosystems.com> wrote:
just FYI that particular bug in seq24 has been fixed,
and a patch has
been posted in at least one location. the problem is that it has not
been picked up by whoever is maintaining seq24.
if you're refering to the one Lieven Moors posted on the bug in
launchpad [1], it doesn't seem to me to address the bug... i.e. he says
it fixes seq24 not working at all for him with newer jacks, and anyway
says (and I've tested the patch and it's indeed the case) that it
doesn't fix the jack transport issue.
[1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/seq24/+bug/803385
4:41 p.m.
On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 6:14 AM, renato <rennabh(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hi, I was wondering, what can we non-dev users do when
our favorite
piece of FOSS software is lacking a little feature, but one that makes
the software for us of little or no use?
I'm thinking of seq24 not working, since a year or so, with JACK
Transport - which for an app like seq24 makes it almost useless. It
really itches me and I'd like to do what's in my power to help fix it.
I was thinking, since this would be (I think) a few hours of devs
work, couldn't I/we raise some money to pay a dev to do it? How would
I/we do it?
In long term thinking, we could have a site where users propose a bug,
devs name a price for it, and when the money raising reaches that
quantity, the dev starts to work on it and when he fixes it he recieves
the money. Basically a mix of kickstarter and amazon's mechanical turk.
There's no simple way that this can work. The dev that works on a
particular problem has to be an expert with the software to be fixed.
Usually this means being the one who wrote it in the first place.
Also, you never know how long you'll spend working on a problem, until
you actually do it. Anyway, the notion has been surviving for
years--I'd say "search the archives", except I have no idea what terms
would actually work.
<puts on his devil's advocate hat> Suppose I write a potentially
useful software, and then leave several bugs until people start
funding it. Then, rake in the dough and fix the bugs (I already know)
in record time. It changes the incentive whether and how to create
software. </puts on his devil's advocate hat>
But changing the incentive is the entire point, right? IMO--devs need
no particular incentive. Funding conferences is a more attractive
option--for those aspiring academics and those who are building a
resume, free software conferences provide another route to
peer-reviewed publications.
Chuck
4:52 p.m.
On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 6:41 PM, Charles Henry wrote:
Also, you never know how long you'll spend working
on a problem, until
you actually do it.
Not only that. It's also quite possible that users will never collect
the amount of money required to implement or fix something.
Ardour still has $1375 proposed by users for implementing MIDI
editing. That's after 2 related GSoC projects $4500 worth each (for
the student) and barely estimatable years of work by other developers
(I'd say +$50K at the very least).
AAF/OMG support is next with mere $505 proposed by users. I'd say, the
real estimation would be ten times as much for an experienced U.S.
based programmer, and that would only cover a very basic support with
probably not much testing.
Of course, the environment has changed a lot since this initiative was
started. Fetching 5K-20K funds for an open source project (even more
for games) has become quite possible. Bu the prerequisite for that is
decent media coverage.
<puts on his devil's advocate hat> Suppose
I write a potentially
useful software, and then leave several bugs until people start
funding it. Then, rake in the dough and fix the bugs (I already know)
in record time. It changes the incentive whether and how to create
software. </puts on his devil's advocate hat>
That only works if people give a damn about your software :)
Alexandre Prokoudine
http://libregraphicsworld.org
6:11 p.m.
On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 10:52 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine <
alexandre.prokoudine(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 6:41 PM, Charles Henry wrote:
its even worse. even if you can tell how long you will spend fixing a
problem, you don't find out till you've done 90% of the fix already.
Also, you never know how long you'll spend
working on a problem, until
you actually do it.
Not only that. It's also quite possible that users will never collect
the amount of money required to implement or fix something.
6:19 p.m.
On Sat, 21 Jul 2012 12:11:56 -0400
Paul Davis <paul(a)linuxaudiosystems.com> wrote:
On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 10:52 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine
<
alexandre.prokoudine(a)gmail.com> wrote:
This is the exact parallel of the situation with electronic repairs. The
number of times I've been asked for a repair estimate... and the customer
*never* believes it takes 5 hours to find an O/C resistor or that actually
finding it *is* the fix.
--
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.
On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 6:41 PM, Charles Henry
wrote:
its even worse. even if you can tell how long you will spend fixing a
problem, you don't find out till you've done 90% of the fix already. Also, you never know how long you'll spend
working on a problem, until
you actually do it.
Not only that. It's also quite possible that users will never collect
the amount of money required to implement or fix something.
22 Jul
22 Jul
2:27 a.m.
On Sat, July 21, 2012 6:19 pm, Folderol wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jul 2012 12:11:56 -0400
Paul Davis <paul(a)linuxaudiosystems.com> wrote:
I can see the value in this. I'll look at adding a section to
Linux-audio.com. At the very least we can have a single point for people
to collect info on bugs that are not being picked up by anyone else.
That could be handy even if no one makes any money from it.
What are the core features that we require?
software
bug/function
payment (up front or pledge)
release date/due date
owner (developer who is doing the work)
bid (how much they will complete the job for)
time estimate ( how long it might take them to complete )
Maybe if we have a pledge option the money has to be paid before the work
is started but not released to the dev until after it is completed/signed
off
Effectively an escrow.
We could have a time out for projects that don't receive an owner and the
funds if already paid can be released back to the payee or added to the
generic pool. That way if projects don't get enough funds we may be able
to push them over the line.
I suppose only people who are active members of LAD/LAU should be allowed
to "compete" for projects. Otherwise we will not have any leverage over
people actually doing decent work or even completing the job.
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 10:52 AM, Alexandre
Prokoudine <
alexandre.prokoudine(a)gmail.com> wrote:
its even worse. even if you can tell how long you will spend fixing a
problem, you don't find out till you've done 90% of the fix already.
This is the exact parallel of the situation with electronic repairs. The
number of times I've been asked for a repair estimate... and the customer
*never* believes it takes 5 hours to find an O/C resistor or that actually
finding it *is* the fix.
On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 6:41 PM, Charles Henry
wrote:
> Also, you never know how long you'll spend working on a problem,
until
you
actually do it.
Not only that. It's also quite possible that users will never collect
the amount of money required to implement or fix something.
23 Jul
23 Jul
4:31 p.m.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
On Sat, 21 Jul 2012 17:19:12 +0100
Folderol <folderol(a)ukfsn.org> wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jul 2012 12:11:56 -0400
Paul Davis <paul(a)linuxaudiosystems.com> wrote:
All reasonable points; while I think that the idea still could work,
at least in part, I am now convinced that my time is actually better
spent trying to learn some more programming... unfortunately the little
I know of C is of no help with C++ projects like seq24
cheers,
renato
On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 10:52 AM, Alexandre
Prokoudine <
alexandre.prokoudine(a)gmail.com> wrote:
This is the exact parallel of the situation with electronic repairs.
The number of times I've been asked for a repair estimate... and the
customer *never* believes it takes 5 hours to find an O/C resistor or
that actually finding it *is* the fix.
On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 6:41 PM, Charles Henry
wrote:
its even worse. even if you can tell how long you will spend fixing
a problem, you don't find out till you've done 90% of the fix
already.
Also, you never know how long you'll spend
working on a
problem, until you actually do it.
Not only that. It's also quite possible that users will never
collect the amount of money required to implement or fix
something.
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4:43 p.m.
I think the problem of raising money for free software development is more
serious
than it might seem. Non-professional free software communities, by which I
mean
people who code things to use them themselves and do not aim for profit,
have no
infrastructure for monetary relationships. That includes not only
technical, but also
social issue - some will not take money on principle, some will not use
PayPal, many
would not be used to the idea of putting together a fund, etc.
I personally believe financing necessary projects is important, but I do
see that many
obstacles are on the way for such crowd funding. In particular, Linux Audio
community
is not large enough to fund a standard Kickstarter campaign. Additionally,
while the
mere number of Linux Audio users seems large enough, the diversity of
interests might
also stand in the way of solidarity in terms of what to fund. Thus, a
particular project
can receive only as much support.
L.V.
5:05 p.m.
On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 6:43 PM, Louigi Verona wrote:
I personally believe financing necessary projects is
important,
but I do see that many obstacles are on the way for such crowd
funding. In particular, Linux Audio community is not large enough
to fund a standard Kickstarter campaign.
First of all, you never know.
I'm pretty sure that folks who hang around in this list, folks who
hang around at linuxmusician.com and folks who hang around in e.g.
ubuntuforums.org and suchlike are several merely intersecting groups,
not entirely overlapping ones. I'm also quite confident that there's a
number of users who don't care about joining any communities, but
wouldn't mind donating, if they saw a clear goal and certain
experience of the developer.
We can partially measure the community by donations to Ardour, but
it's just that -- partial. Not everyone wants or needs a DAW.
Likewise, not everyone needs or wants channel plugins from linuxDSP
etc.
Remember one of the top rated comments to one of the Bitwig videos? It
was along the "Linux support? Shut up and take my money" lines.
The other thing is that there is no such thing as a standard
Kickstarter campaign.
If we ever want the Linux audio ecosystem to be self-supporting while
being on par with its Win/Mac counterparts in too many aspect to
mention, someone's got to start catering to all those communities
around. Hopefully this is what Patrick has in mind :)
Alexandre Prokoudine
http://libregraphicsworld.org
9:51 p.m.
Alexandre, I hope you are correct. I personally would donate to a project I
find useful.
3 Aug
3 Aug
10:23 a.m.
On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 11:51:46PM +0400, Louigi Verona wrote:
Alexandre, I hope you are correct. I personally would
donate to a project I
find useful.
I have just heard of this new project: http://www.kodefund.com
I have not actually had any experience with it, but it seems to be aiming in the direction
discussed here.
-ken
10:29 a.m.
Seems like a startup. The site instantly threw a This Connection is
Untrusted warning. Does not seem trustworthy at the moment.
On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 12:23 PM, Ken Restivo <ken(a)restivo.org> wrote:
On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 11:51:46PM +0400, Louigi
Verona wrote:
--
Louigi Verona
http://www.louigiverona.ru/
Alexandre, I hope you are correct. I personally
would donate to a
project I
find useful.
I have just heard of this new project: http://www.kodefund.com
I have not actually had any experience with it, but it seems to be aiming
in the direction discussed here.
-ken
12:11 p.m.
On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 4:29 AM, Louigi Verona <louigi.verona(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
Seems like a startup. The site instantly threw a This
Connection is
Untrusted warning. Does not seem trustworthy at the moment.
that message exists for ardour.org in a lot of browsers. in our case its
caused by the fact the certificate authority that use for ardour.org is (a)
not known to people with some older browser installs (b) in some cases, the
browser maker has decided to blacklist the certificate authority because of
some action they took (and ardour.org pays the price).
just saying ...
12:15 p.m.
Understood. However, the project sill looks raw. It might become popular
later. If I am wrong and the project
is known, correct me.
On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 2:11 PM, Paul Davis <paul(a)linuxaudiosystems.com>wrote;wrote:
On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 4:29 AM, Louigi Verona <louigi.verona(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
--
Louigi Verona
http://www.louigiverona.ru/
Seems like a startup. The site instantly threw a
This Connection is
Untrusted warning. Does not seem trustworthy at the moment.
that message exists for ardour.org in a lot of browsers. in our case its
caused by the fact the certificate authority that use for ardour.org is
(a) not known to people with some older browser installs (b) in some cases,
the browser maker has decided to blacklist the certificate authority
because of some action they took (and ardour.org pays the price).
just saying ...
5:27 p.m.
On Fri, August 3, 2012 12:11 pm, Paul Davis wrote:
On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 4:29 AM, Louigi Verona
<louigi.verona(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
Given that anyone with $200,000 can purchase a root certificate and become
a CA it's hardly a trustworthy system in the first place. I'm more likely
to trust them if their certificate is correctly identified and generated
locally.
There is NO PROOF that the factoring of the products of large primes is a
fundamentally 'hard' mathematical problem. It's likely a fast algorithm
exists and is already in the hands of several governments.
We are all exposed on the internet ;-)
Seems like a startup. The site instantly threw a
This Connection is
Untrusted warning. Does not seem trustworthy at the moment.
that message exists for ardour.org in a lot of browsers. in our case its
caused by the fact the certificate authority that use for ardour.org is
(a)
not known to people with some older browser installs (b) in some cases,
the
browser maker has decided to blacklist the certificate authority because
of
some action they took (and ardour.org pays the price).
just saying ...
Ditto
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
7:17 p.m.
On 08/03/2012 05:27 PM, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
There is NO PROOF that the factoring of the products
of large primes is a
fundamentally 'hard' mathematical problem. It's likely a fast algorithm
exists and is already in the hands of several governments.
Slashdot headline: "N = NP - several governments win Fields medal" :)
Please everyone, don't take this flamebait on the linux-AUDIO lists.
We are all exposed on the internet ;-)
news at 11.
robin
10:57 p.m.
On Fri, Aug 03, 2012 at 05:27:51PM +0200, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
There is NO PROOF that the factoring of the products
of large primes is a
fundamentally 'hard' mathematical problem. It's likely a fast algorithm
exists and is already in the hands of several governments.
BS. There is plently of evidence that it is a very hard problem,
there's just no proof that no solution exist.
Image for a second that the USA government would know a method
to factor any product of two large primes. Then it would have
to to consider the possibility that
* another goverment would find out the same, giving it access
to most of the financial and economic infrastructure of the
USA,
* or some private researcher finds it, goes public and all hell
breaks loose.
In either case the damage would be on scale that even good old
O.B.L. couldn't dream of.
Keeping such a thing secret for any time would be the most stupid
and irresponsible thing one could imagine. No USA government,
democratic, republican or neocon would ever do that.
What would happen if someone finds such a method and has any
good sense would be that in a matter of months all RSA based
cryptography would disappear from all systems that have any
strategic signficance. And that wouldn't go unnoticed.
We are all exposed on the internet ;-)
Most people just expose themselves. For example I wonder why
the owner of a business with 'subsidiaries' and 'partners'
(enough to keep one busy I'd think) is wasting his time trying
to make some petty money with a commercial website on Linux
audio. I can only assume that Boost Hardware Ltd. is going
all fours up, don't need to read your emails for that.
Ciao,
--
FA
A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia.
It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris
and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow)
4 Aug
4 Aug
12:45 a.m.
On Fri, August 3, 2012 10:57 pm, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
My company hasn't done bad from Linux over the past 14 years. Now I have
decided to step up the pace and generate some real income. You're welcome
to join me for the ride but I'll leave that decision up to you.
If you continue to feel threatened by the possibility then you're just
shooting yourself in the foot which is coincidentally one your your strong
points so I am not surprised by this statement or your desire to run me
out of town as you have done it before to other people who only wanted to
be useful too.
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
On Fri, Aug 03, 2012 at 05:27:51PM +0200, Patrick
Shirkey wrote:
The threat of death is quite a powerful motivator to keep things quiet on
that front. You gonna be the one who releases "that" algorithm?
There is NO PROOF that the factoring of the
products of large primes is
a
fundamentally 'hard' mathematical problem. It's likely a fast algorithm
exists and is already in the hands of several governments.
BS. There is plently of evidence that it is a very hard problem,
there's just no proof that no solution exist.
Image for a second that the USA government would know a method
to factor any product of two large primes. Then it would have
to to consider the possibility that
* another goverment would find out the same, giving it access
to most of the financial and economic infrastructure of the
USA,
* or some private researcher finds it, goes public and all hell
breaks loose.
In either case the damage would be on scale that even
good old
O.B.L. couldn't dream of.
A CIA cutout created to allow the US to justify perpetual war?
Keeping such a thing secret for any time would be the
most stupid
and irresponsible thing one could imagine. No USA government,
democratic, republican or neocon would ever do that.
Of coure not. The governments of this world are run by nice people who
only want whats best for all of us right?
What would happen if someone finds such a method and
has any
good sense would be that in a matter of months all RSA based
cryptography would disappear from all systems that have any
strategic signficance. And that wouldn't go unnoticed.
It's been known in some communities for a while. Nothing has changed so
far. Apparently the status quo is quite acceptable.
We are all
exposed on the internet ;-)
Most people just expose themselves. For example I wonder why
the owner of a business with 'subsidiaries' and 'partners'
(enough to keep one busy I'd think) is wasting his time trying
to make some petty money with a commercial website on Linux
audio. I can only assume that Boost Hardware Ltd. is going
all fours up, don't need to read your emails for that.
3:06 p.m.
On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 6:45 PM, Patrick Shirkey
<pshirkey(a)boosthardware.com>wrote;wrote:
[ .... ]
Patrick, you missed the key point that Fons made:
Do you understand the scope of this risk? Do you understand how much
sensitive data is exchanged even just within the US government using
encryption based on factoring primes? Do you seriously believe that even
the US government would expose so much of its own communications, not to
mention that of corporations that prop the country up, just in order to be
able to decrypt *other* organizations' and people's communications?
and remember that governments actually don't have the largest incentive to
solve this particular math puzzle - they derive no income from the
existence or absence of encryption, only some leverage. criminal
organizations, on the other hand, have both the money and the incentive,
and if it was even imaginable that someone has solved prime factoring, then
i'd have to put money on it coming from such an organization rather than a
government.
whether or not you want to be more or less paranoid about that possibility
i leave for you to decide.
this is paranoia beyond belief. the release of PGP by phil zimmerman
basically handed anyone around the world the ability to encrypt their
communication in a way that (at that time, without doubt) it could not be
decrypted. AFAIK, phil is still with us (despite certainly having had some,
ahem, interesting interactions with the US government after they classified
his work as a weapon). what zimmerman did is at least as problematic for
any government as the discovery of a prime factoring technique. the damage
to existing encryption systems would be total and instant once such a
technique was published. we already know that once it was published it
would never vanish from the net. killing the publisher/researcher would
accomplish precisely nothing.
My company hasn't done bad from Linux over the past 14 years. Now I have
decided to step up the pace and generate some real income. You're welcome
to join me for the ride but I'll leave that decision up to you.
If you continue to feel threatened by the possibility then you're just
shooting yourself in the foot which is coincidentally one your your strong
points so I am not surprised by this statement or your desire to run me
out of town as you have done it before to other people who only wanted to
be useful too.
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
Image for a
second that the USA government would know a method
to factor any product of two large primes. Then it would have
to to consider the possibility that
* another goverment would find out the same, giving it access
to most of the financial and economic infrastructure of the
USA,
* or some private researcher finds it, goes public and all hell
breaks loose.
The threat of death is quite a powerful motivator to keep things quiet on
that front. You gonna be the one who releases "that" algorithm?
In either case the damage would be on scale that
even good old
O.B.L. couldn't dream of.
A CIA cutout created to allow the US to justify perpetual war?
Keeping such a thing secret for any time would be
the most stupid
and irresponsible thing one could imagine. No USA government,
democratic, republican or neocon would ever do that.
Of coure not. The governments of this world are run by nice people who
only want whats best for all of us right?
What would happen if someone finds such a method
and has any
good sense would be that in a matter of months all RSA based
cryptography would disappear from all systems that have any
strategic signficance. And that wouldn't go unnoticed.
It's been known in some communities for a while. Nothing has changed so
far. Apparently the status quo is quite acceptable.
We are
all exposed on the internet ;-)
Most people just expose themselves. For example I wonder why
the owner of a business with 'subsidiaries' and 'partners'
(enough to keep one busy I'd think) is wasting his time trying
to make some petty money with a commercial website on Linux
audio. I can only assume that Boost Hardware Ltd. is going
all fours up, don't need to read your emails for that.
3 Aug
3 Aug
12:16 p.m.
On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 4:23 AM, Ken Restivo <ken(a)restivo.org> wrote:
On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 11:51:46PM +0400, Louigi
Verona wrote:
sites like this are NOT the solution in my opinion. we do not need more
middle men involved in the process of moving whatever revenue might
potentially flow between users and developers. what we do need is a better
banking system that makes person-to-person transfers easy, cheap
(preferably zero cost) and fast. this will not come from the world of
geeks, nerds and open source enthusiasts - the banking sector is controlled
by a different set of people with a different set of interests. clearly, in
europe are already significantly better in many respects that relate to
this. but in the US such transfers are absurdly hard. and crossing borders
between currencies is still subject to absurd conversion fees (which do
have a little justification because of the fluctuation risk posed to
whoever participates).
in short, more websites, no matter what the model is, is not really the
answer to this issue. except, maybe (just maybe) bitcoin, which seems to
have stalled for now.
--p
Alexandre, I hope you are correct. I personally
would donate to a
project I
find useful.
I have just heard of this new project: http://www.kodefund.com
I have not actually had any experience with it, but it seems to be aiming
in the direction discussed here.
12:41 p.m.
On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 2:16 PM, Paul Davis wrote:
sites like this are NOT the solution in my opinion. we
do not need more
middle men involved in the process of moving whatever revenue might
potentially flow between users and developers. what we do need is a better
banking system that makes person-to-person transfers easy, cheap (preferably
zero cost) and fast. this will not come from the world of geeks, nerds and
open source enthusiasts - the banking sector is controlled by a different
set of people with a different set of interests. clearly, in europe are
already significantly better in many respects that relate to this. but in
the US such transfers are absurdly hard. and crossing borders between
currencies is still subject to absurd conversion fees (which do have a
little justification because of the fluctuation risk posed to whoever
participates).
Hmm, what _I_ always thought was needed is team members who can think
in terms of sustainable business models and management.
Alexandre Prokoudine
http://libregraphicsworld.org
12:53 p.m.
On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 6:41 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine <
alexandre.prokoudine(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hmm, what _I_ always thought was needed is team members who can think
in terms of sustainable business models and management.
if the goal is to "convert money to fixing to bugs in software" then
obstacles that impede the transfer of money from people who want to pay are
an issue.
fixing that is a necessary but insufficient condition, obviously. but if
the banking system continues to make it painful or impossible for a user to
pay someone to do something for them, no amount of sustainable business
models are going to recover that money. and if the flow of the money is
what drives bug fixing (questionable, but certainly a reasonable
proposition), then the bugs won't get fixed.
4840
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linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
25 comments
12 participants
participants (12)
-
Alexandre Prokoudine -
Charles Henry -
Folderol -
Fons Adriaensen -
Ken Restivo -
Louigi Verona -
Patrick Shirkey -
Paul Davis -
Ralf Mardorf -
renato -
Robin Gareus -
SxDx