2 Apr
2015
2 Apr
'15
2:39 p.m.
Len:
I was looking at the X(R)18. Which acording to
Sweetwater has 16 i/o
but on the Behringer site says 18/18. I would hope the manufacture
is the right one. Actually, the sweetwater site says 16 USB channels
in one place and 18 io half a page away... so I can see both numbers
at the same time. :P
Fons:
just a quick remark on USB and Behringer. At my new
workplace our
boss, in a fit of enlightment and for reasons only known to himself,
decided to buy a cheap Behringer mixer with a USB interface. Nobody
here needs it and it remained in its box for months.
Some week ago I had some spare time and decided to have a look at
it. Connected the USB to my Linux workstation and connected some
headphones to the mixer. Result: with all faders down and just
the HP volume turned up there was a high level 50/100 Hz in the
headphones. Removing the USB connection was enough to stop it.
Patrick:
> That is not bad considering that only a few years
ago the idea of an
> affordable plug and play digital hardware mixer on Linux was just that,
> an idea.
Fons:
It's not a digital mixer, nor did I suggest it
was.
Just re-editing and recapping this, as I too was confused.
Fons was not talking about the XR18 or any of Behringer's new digital range.
mH
6 Apr
6 Apr
7:47 a.m.
New subject: Behringer and Linux
On Thu, April 2, 2015 10:39 pm, mark hadman wrote:
Len:
Now that has been resolved, here's some suggestions for resolving the issue.
(1) The mixer and the Linux box both use switching power supplies. They
are plugged into the same outlet strip. This will occur with most
switching power supply audio devices and most laptops. Much less of a
problem with workstations with large well filtered motherboards and power
supplies. Less of a problem if the devices are on separate power
circuits. Not a problem if the audio device is powered from a linear
supply or battery. Often goes away even if just the laptop gets powered
off its battery.
The two switching power supplies operate at frequencies that are close but
not identical and not synced. The noise generated is very buzzy.
(2) If Fons had audio cables from his workstation plugged into the mixer
(even if the faders are all down) with the USB plugged into same, then the
odds are he had a "ground loop" as the "digital ground" and
"analog
ground" of the workstation do not reference the same points (i.e. are not
the same "ground"). This will happen with ALL gear that does not have
audio isolation transformers on the inputs and outputs. The solution is
to either use external ones (Jaycar and Altronics in Australia, and many
other outfits supply them.) The other solution is to not use metal
connected USB but rather fibre optic SPDIF or ADAT (the reason for their
existence!).
Ground loop noise has its primary frequency the power line frequency and
may have a large second harmonic component. Fon's description of the
noise is consistent with this problem. If his Linux audio workstation is
a full-out desktop workstation with a big high-end power supply and the
motherboard has a premium audio chipset, then the above "ground loop" is
almost certainly the problem.
Both of these, are not really Behringer problems. It is nearly impossible
to sell new audio gear with linear supplies due to regulations about power
efficiency in many countries. Only very exotic (and correspondingly
expensive!) high end studio gear has either (and sometimes both), high
quality audio transformers on all analog inputs and outputs, and/or common
mode rejecting (true-differential) semiconductor circuits on all analog
inputs and outputs.
Marschall Acoustics Instruments P/L (*) electronics always has
true-differential semiconductor inputs and outputs, with additional
isolation transformer coupling available on request at extra cost and
physical device size (not to mention weight). MAI equipment also only
uses linear supplies (not switching). It is usually sold as "research
instrumentation" for import purposes, but could never be sold to consumer
retailers.
(*) http://hydrophones.com
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
I was looking at the X(R)18. Which acording to
Sweetwater has 16 i/o
but on the Behringer site says 18/18. I would hope the manufacture
is the right one. Actually, the sweetwater site says 16 USB channels
in one place and 18 io half a page away... so I can see both numbers
at the same time. :P
Fons:
just a quick remark on USB and Behringer. At my
new workplace our
boss, in a fit of enlightment and for reasons only known to himself,
decided to buy a cheap Behringer mixer with a USB interface. Nobody
here needs it and it remained in its box for months.
Some week ago I had some spare time and decided to have a look at
it. Connected the USB to my Linux workstation and connected some
headphones to the mixer. Result: with all faders down and just
the HP volume turned up there was a high level 50/100 Hz in the
headphones. Removing the USB connection was enough to stop it.
Patrick:
> That is not bad considering that only a few
years ago the idea of an
> affordable plug and play digital hardware mixer on Linux was just that,
> an idea.
Fons:
It's not a digital mixer, nor did I suggest
it was.
Just re-editing and recapping this, as I too was confused.
Fons was not talking about the XR18 or any of Behringer's new digital
range.
10:54 a.m.
New subject: Behringer and Linux
On Mon, Apr 06, 2015 at 03:47:25PM +1000, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
Now that has been resolved, here's some
suggestions for resolving the issue.
:-) You're trying very hard to get Behringer in the clear, but most of
you argumentation is wrong or irrelevant.
(1) The mixer and the Linux box both use switching
power supplies. They
are plugged into the same outlet strip. This will occur with most
switching power supply audio devices and most laptops. Much less of a
problem with workstations with large well filtered motherboards and power
supplies.
* Switching PS have their problems - they can generate nasty wideband
interference etc. - but w.r.t. ground loops there is no reason why
they are no better or worse than linear PS.
* The linux workstation in this case was not a laptop, it did have a
'large well filtered' PS.
* Connecting it via coax madi (wich creates a ground connection) to an
RME ADI648 and a battery of assorted DA converters (some using very
cheap switching PS as does the ADI648) does not create any problem
at all. Not even with 20m cables to a different room.
Less of a problem if the devices are on separate power
circuits.
Usually having separate circuits makes things worse, not better.
Not a problem if the audio device is powered from a
linear supply or battery.
A linear power supply wouldn't make any difference. Using battery power
at one end of course breaks any ground loop, but is not always an option,
certainly not in this case.
Often goes away even if just the laptop gets powered
off its battery.
No laptops were involved.
(2) If Fons had audio cables from his workstation
plugged into the mixer
(even if the faders are all down) with the USB plugged into same, then the
odds are he had a "ground loop" as the "digital ground" and
"analog
ground" of the workstation do not reference the same points (i.e. are not
the same "ground").
There were no other connections. Just the USB cable.
Even if there had been external analog connections and massive 50 Hz signals
at the inputs due to ground loops, with all faders down the input to the
headphone amp should be silence. Unless there are *internal* ground related
problems, which seems to be the case.
This will happen with ALL gear that does not have
audio isolation
transformers on the inputs and outputs.
Simply not true. Not if that gear is properly designed and wired. Here
at home I have an analog mixer wired to the sound card in my PC and a
all sorts of consumer gear using unbalanced connections. There is no
trace of hum. Well there is, but you need Jaaa to detect it at -140 dB
or so.
If his Linux audio workstation is a full-out desktop
workstation with
a big high-end power supply and the motherboard has a premium audio
chipset, then the above "ground loop" is almost certainly the problem.
The on-board audio interface was not involved at all. It's even disabled
in the BIOS.
Both of these, are not really Behringer problems.
This is definitely a problem with the mixer and nothing else.
It is nearly impossible to sell new audio gear with
linear supplies
due to regulations about power efficiency in many countries.
Not true. Manufacturers use switched power supplies because they are
small and cheap. They use wall warts to bypass safety regulations which
apply when a PS is built-in. But none of that should matter much w.r.t.
ground loops.
Tschuss,
--
FA
A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia.
It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris
and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow)
2 p.m.
New subject: Behringer and Linux
On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 4:54 AM, Fons Adriaensen <fons(a)linuxaudio.org> wrote:
[ ... stuff ...]
I'd also mention that these days I do most of my computing on a system with
a 12VDC power input, and for the last 3 months, that system was powered
from a solar-charged 12VDC power system. There is no "ground" in this
system, and no noise - the power supply is as clean as you can get,
audiophile class in fact :)
And yet ... my "cheap" 12VDC amplifier which is also a USB DAC, suffers
from the pin<=>chassis wiring problem. Just touching the USB connector to
the chassis of the computer generates noise. It doesn't have to be anything
to do with AC power supplies ...
5:18 p.m.
New subject: Behringer and Linux
Fons Adriaensen <fons(a)linuxaudio.org> schrieb am Mo., 6. Apr. 2015 um
10:54 Uhr:
:-) You're trying very hard to get Behringer in the clear, but most of
you argumentation is wrong or irrelevant.
You Fons, on the other hand, are trying very hard to bash them for whatever
reasons you have. Remember that this discussion started out as a discussion
about the X32 and X18 line of products and Linux. You have had absolutely
nothing to say about them. Null!
Actually, I don't care wether or not that cheap USB thingy that you can't
even name has had any issues. It's at most just anecdotal evidence in a
case against cheap USB devices.
Most anyone has his or her Behringer nightmare story. They have their
reputation and rightly so. But I'm curiuos about their ability to change.
And I'm more then surprised that I haven't heard a single bad word about
their X32 line. Remember, these devices are not totally new on the market
anymore, there should be someone pointing out serious issues by now - if
there are any!
So please, don't disturb discussions that might help in finding out if this
line might really be a new kind of Behringer or not by wasting our time
with old and often told folklore about the (missing) quality of Behringer
products. If you have any kind of experience with the X32 or X18 line, good
or bad, please tell us. If not, well, ...
Regards,
Felix
7:09 p.m.
New subject: Behringer and Linux
On Mon, Apr 06, 2015 at 03:18:35PM +0000, Felix Homann wrote:
You Fons, on the other hand, are trying very hard to
bash them for whatever
reasons you have. Remember that this discussion started out as a discussion
about the X32 and X18 line of products and Linux. You have had absolutely
nothing to say about them. Null!
That's true, because I never used an X32 or X18, and I report only
what I've experienced at first hand.
Do you have any first hand experience of B. products ?
Most anyone has his or her Behringer nightmare story.
And is that something you'd expect for any reputable brand ?
But I'm curiuos about their ability to change.
Maybe they can. I'm not waiting for that.
If you have any kind of experience with the X32 or X18
line, good
or bad, please tell us. If not, well, ...
I'll decide for myself what I talk about. For someone who
gets paid to appear in commercials and therefore disqualifies
himself as an objective reviewer that may seem strange, but
that's how it is.
Tschuss,
--
FA
A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia.
It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris
and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow)
8:26 p.m.
New subject: Behringer and Linux
2015-04-06 19:09 GMT+02:00 Fons Adriaensen <fons(a)linuxaudio.org>rg>:
On Mon, Apr 06, 2015 at 03:18:35PM +0000, Felix Homann
wrote:
Do you have any first hand experience of B. products ?
Yes, I have. Good and bad, very limited though. We can talk about them
in a different discussion if you like.
I'll decide for myself what I talk about. For someone who
gets paid to appear in commercials and therefore disqualifies
himself as an objective reviewer that may seem strange, but
that's how it is.
(For personal curiosity reasons: I didn't know you're doing
commercials. What kind of commercials are you in?)
Sure, do as you please.
Kind regards,
Felix
8:41 p.m.
New subject: Behringer and Linux
On Mon, Apr 06, 2015 at 08:26:29PM +0200, Felix Homann wrote:
None. I should have written '*To* someone who appears....'.
If your website is anything to go by, *you* appear in commercials
for science toys. Not as some anonymous actor, but as someone who
runs a science show and is probably known for that. There is of
course nothing wrong with that, and it certainly doesn't imply
you're dishonest. But it disqualifies you as an objective
reviewer of such products - if I were a potential consumer of
these things I would no longer trust your opinion, even if you
are an expert on these things.
Now if you care so little about your reputation, then I don't
think you are in a position to comment on anybody else's
integrity.
Ciao,
--
FA
A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia.
It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris
and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow)
I'll
decide for myself what I talk about. For someone who
gets paid to appear in commercials and therefore disqualifies
himself as an objective reviewer that may seem strange, but
that's how it is.
(For personal curiosity reasons: I didn't know you're doing
commercials. What kind of commercials are you in?)
7 Apr
7 Apr
9:39 a.m.
New subject: Behringer and Linux
First, apologies from me, Fons. Reading my mails again I was way too
harsh. That wasn't adequate and I'm sorry for that.
2015-04-06 20:41 GMT+02:00 Fons Adriaensen <fons(a)linuxaudio.org>rg>:
On Mon, Apr 06, 2015 at 08:26:29PM +0200, Felix Homann
wrote:
None. I should have written '*To* someone who appears....'.
Glad I asked and thanks you answered. But I'm quite puzzled that this
turned out as one of the most annoying personal attacks I've ever been
confronted with on the net.
I'll
decide for myself what I talk about. For someone who
gets paid to appear in commercials and therefore disqualifies
himself as an objective reviewer that may seem strange, but
that's how it is.
(For personal curiosity reasons: I didn't know you're doing
commercials. What kind of commercials are you in?)
If your website is anything to go by, *you* appear in commercials
for science toys. Not as some anonymous actor, but as someone who
runs a science show and is probably known for that. There is of
course nothing wrong with that, and it certainly doesn't imply
you're dishonest. But it disqualifies you as an objective
reviewer of such products - if I were a potential consumer of
these things I would no longer trust your opinion, even if you
are an expert on these things.
So what has all this to do with the topics discussed in this mailing
list? It's just trying to discredit me. Do we discuss "such products"
here? No. Have I ever tried to portrait myself as an "objective
reviewer of such products"? No.
BTW, I would not have qualified as an objective reviewer of such
things even without those commercials because in fact a) *I*
created/developed/authored a lot of those products b) the publisher
whom I did the commercials for is the publisher of *my* book, *my*
science kits and a project *partner* for many years. This is no secret
at all and I don't know how this might hurt my reputation. Even less
when it comes to discussing audio gear.
I'm not amused. Not at all!
Now if you care so little about your reputation, then I don't
think you are in a position to comment on anybody else's
integrity.
I don't see how I don't care about my reputation. Moreover, I don't
think I have commented on anybody's integrity and I have not intended
to do so. Before *you* personally attacked *my* reputation and
integrity I would never have had any doubt about *your* integrity. On
the contrary.
Kind regards,
Felix
8 Apr
8 Apr
10:36 a.m.
New subject: Behringer and Linux
On 07/04/15 00:09, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
I'll decide for myself what I talk about. For
someone who gets paid to
appear in commercials and therefore disqualifies himself as an
objective reviewer that may seem strange, but that's how it is. Tschuss,
There are some people on this list I might expect a response like this
from but you previously were not one of them Fons. Stick to what you do
best; generally knowledgeable, well balanced, thoughtful, helpful and
progressive responses and leave the attacks and throwing toys from the
pram to other members on the list please!
But for what it's worth, if you truly believe in a product (even if you
hadn't designed it yourself!) what really can be the harm of saying so
publicly in an advert? Now if you are seen in multiple adverts, each for
products which contradict or are at loggerheads with each other that
would be a different matter. But how can you even try and have a go at
somebody for advertising his own products or putting his name against
something they believe in?!!
I can only hope it was a bad, stressful day in the office...
Dale.
6 Apr
6 Apr
4:55 p.m.
New subject: Behringer and Linux
"ground loop" is almost certainly the
problem.
A problem with "ground loop" is symptomatic of a fundamental
misunderstanding of Ohm's law and is a problem of poor layout in the
mixer.
Fons has explained reasonably well for a short email where the previous
email goes wrong, but there really isn't time to go into full detail of
why the problem should not exist at all.
The shortest version I can come up with is that any two pieces of
equipment will have some voltage difference between their cases.
Connecting the equipment together allows current to flow between the
equipment along the shields of connecting cables, and across whatever
conductors form a path for that current to get back to the source (form a
complete circuit). That path could include chassis, cables, printed
circuit board traces, anything conductive. Any current flowing in a
conductor will have an associated voltage drop described by Ohm's law
(voltage is the product of current and impedance), and the job of the
design engineer is to understand and control where that current will be
flowing, and make sure that no audio circuitry uses one of those
conductive paths as a reference conductor for the audio.
Both of these, are not really Behringer problems.
They most certainly are.
The design engineers at Behringer failed that layout task for at least the
headphone amplifier in the mixer Fons described.
It is two decades too late to make excuses for incompetence in dealing
with that particular problem.
This is what most consider the turning point in highlighting the problem,
a full issue in 1995 (twenty years ago this June!) of the Journal of the
Audio Engineer Society dealing specifically with grounding and shielding
concerns, still available as a special publication from the AES today:
http://www.aes.org/publications/specialpubs/journal_issues.cfm
SHIELDS AND GROUNDS: SAFETY, POWER MAINS, STUDIO, CABLE AND EQUIPMENT,
(special excerpt) The June 1995 issue of the Journal was a definitive and
comprehensive collection of information on this important topic. The seven
papers by Neil Muncy and other experts in the field have been reprinted
into a convenient guide for designers and practitioners.
And of course following the recommendations in AES standard 48 go a long
way toward alleviating the problem. Only available for one decade, so
perhaps we could excuse the designers for not being familiar with it yet:
http://www.aes.org/publications/standards/search.cfm?docID=44
AES48-2005 (r2010): AES standard on interconnections - Grounding and EMC
practices - Shields of connectors in audio equipment containing active
circuitry
Printing Date: 2010-07-08
Publication History: Pub. 2005; Reaffirmed 2010
Abstract: This standard specifies requirements for the termination, within
audio equipment, of the shields of cables supporting interconnections with
other equipment, taking into account measures commonly necessary for the
preservation of EMC (electromagnetic compatibility) at both audio and
radio frequencies. The shielding (or screening) of audio equipment,
cables, and microphones can be critical for EMC. The improper connection
of these shields can cause common-impedance coupling in equipment. From XL
connector usage, where Pin 1 is standardised as the designated shield
contact, this has
been identified as the Pin 1 problem.
Bill Whitlock of Jensen Transformers has written a lot of good material (a
couple of the articles in the June 1995 JAES), but a recent web page
redesign at Jensen seems to make his online material difficult to find by
requiring a login to download the app notes.
The app notes at Rane are nearly as good, and are a good place to start
while waiting for your copy of the June '95 JAES to arrive in the post:
http://www.rane.com/note151.html
http://www.rane.com/note110.html
http://www.rane.com/pdf/whitlock.pdf
This stuff isn't brain surgery, and it's well past time to stop making
excuses for manufacturers who won't get it right.
--
Chris Caudle
8 Apr
8 Apr
5:37 a.m.
New subject: Behringer and Linux
On Tue, April 7, 2015 12:54 am, Chris Caudle wrote:
To clarify, I didn't say switching power supplies cause ground loops, I
DID say they will run at different switching frequencies. Those
frequencies have fair odds of being close and the (quite common) combined
leakage will beat at audible frequencies.
The second hypothesis talks about a "ground loop", but not through the
wall outlet power grounds, but analog and digital ground references in TWO
devices being different. A USB metal connection will make their digital
"ground" reference the same, but the two analog ones now probably will not
be. Disconnect the USB connection and analog "ground" goes back to where
it is designed to be.
"ground
loop" is almost certainly the problem.
A problem with "ground loop" is symptomatic of a fundamental
misunderstanding of Ohm's law and is a problem of poor layout in the
mixer.
Fons has explained reasonably well for a short email
where the previous
email goes wrong, but there really isn't time to go into full detail of
why the problem should not exist at all.
The shortest version I can come up with is that any two pieces of
equipment will have some voltage difference between their cases.
Connecting the equipment together allows current to flow between the
equipment along the shields of connecting cables, and across whatever
conductors form a path for that current to get back to the source (form a
complete circuit). That path could include chassis, cables, printed
circuit board traces, anything conductive. Any current flowing in a
conductor will have an associated voltage drop described by Ohm's law
(voltage is the product of current and impedance), and the job of the
design engineer is to understand and control where that current will be
flowing, and make sure that no audio circuitry uses one of those
conductive paths as a reference conductor for the audio.
You haven't proven that is the case so unless you have absolute proof you
shouldn't be claiming that they have absolutely failed.
Fons hasn't definitively proven his rebuttal either.
Either way I'm sure the issue could be resolved by donating the device for
analysis at LAC.
Both of these, are not really Behringer problems.
They most certainly are.
The design engineers at Behringer failed that layout task for at least the
headphone amplifier in the mixer Fons described. It is two decades too late to make excuses for
incompetence in dealing
with that particular problem.
It does seem that some people just hate Behringer, for what reason I don't
know. Yes, the early Behringer Eurorack and Eurodesk mixers had power
supply problems but that was pre-Xenyx and at least ten years ago. This
was also before Behringer controlled all its own manufacturing at
"Behringer City".
Failures of Behringer gear are exceedingly rare, and then only under
severe abuse. The abuse it does take and keeps operating is noteworthy.
Behringer deserves some great credits. They are good designs (designed
for clever automated manufacturing and intrinsic reliability) at amazingly
low prices.
The people on this mailing list suggesting that Behringer's engineers
don't know how to lay out a proper circuit board are seriously confused.
One has to question what on earth is their motivation to smear good
companies and people?
This is what most consider the turning point in
highlighting the problem,
a full issue in 1995 (twenty years ago this June!) of the Journal of the
Audio Engineer Society dealing specifically with grounding and shielding
concerns, still available as a special publication from the AES today:
http://www.aes.org/publications/specialpubs/journal_issues.cfm
SHIELDS AND GROUNDS: SAFETY, POWER MAINS, STUDIO, CABLE AND EQUIPMENT,
(special excerpt) The June 1995 issue of the Journal was a definitive and
comprehensive collection of information on this important topic. The seven
papers by Neil Muncy and other experts in the field have been reprinted
into a convenient guide for designers and practitioners.
And of course following the recommendations in AES standard 48 go a long
way toward alleviating the problem. Only available for one decade, so
perhaps we could excuse the designers for not being familiar with it yet:
http://www.aes.org/publications/standards/search.cfm?docID=44
AES48-2005 (r2010): AES standard on interconnections - Grounding and EMC
practices - Shields of connectors in audio equipment containing active
circuitry
Printing Date: 2010-07-08
Publication History: Pub. 2005; Reaffirmed 2010
Abstract: This standard specifies requirements for the termination, within
audio equipment, of the shields of cables supporting interconnections with
other equipment, taking into account measures commonly necessary for the
preservation of EMC (electromagnetic compatibility) at both audio and
radio frequencies. The shielding (or screening) of audio equipment,
cables, and microphones can be critical for EMC. The improper connection
of these shields can cause common-impedance coupling in equipment. From XL
connector usage, where Pin 1 is standardised as the designated shield
contact, this has
been identified as the Pin 1 problem.
Bill Whitlock of Jensen Transformers has written a lot of good material (a
couple of the articles in the June 1995 JAES), but a recent web page
redesign at Jensen seems to make his online material difficult to find by
requiring a login to download the app notes.
The app notes at Rane are nearly as good, and are a good place to start
while waiting for your copy of the June '95 JAES to arrive in the post:
http://www.rane.com/note151.html
http://www.rane.com/note110.html
http://www.rane.com/pdf/whitlock.pdf
This stuff isn't brain surgery, and it's well past time to stop making
excuses for manufacturers who won't get it right.
So we have at least two competing theories based on Fon's very basic and
off hand description of the issue. It will be very interesting to find out
which one is correct or if it is something else completely different.
BTW, I note that Fons mentioned he found the problem while working at a
research lab. I sure hope there are no conflicts of interest there as that
would be extremely embarrassing.
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
1:33 p.m.
New subject: Behringer and Linux
On Wed, 8 Apr 2015 13:37:31 +1000 (EST), Patrick Shirkey wrote:
It does seem that some people just hate Behringer, for
what reason I
don't know.
Hi Patrick,
it isn't hate, the reason is experience. We like Behringer for some
usages too.
Some of us just recommended to care about the purpose of use, when
paying much money for audio gear. The product Len was talking about
isn't cheap, it's expensive, even while it might cost less then
competing products.
If there e.g. are two products from two different vendors, that are both
long-lasting, both have the same good audio quality, operability and
the same price, those products still might provide different
reparability.
Some companies might provide this product with slide-in unites, other
companies might provide the product in one piece.
Some companies might provide this product or at least spare parts for
it, for several decades, other companies might have a different policy
regarding their assortments.
I pay 37.83 € for a Behringer X V-AMP LX1-X. It provides all needed
effects, including amp and speaker simulations and a headphone output. I
also own several stomp boxes. Each stomp box just provides one effect
and at least does coast twice that much and sometimes much, much more.
The Behringer is good to plug in a headphone and to play your guitar in
your flat, but on stage, would you like to interrupt your songs, each
time you turn an effect on or off? "My apologies audience, when I turn
on the overdrive for the guitar solo, we'll stop the song for a
second, because the gear has got a delay, when turning on or off
effects."
IOW it's not hate against a company, we only report our experiences. If
you want a chorus, an overdrive, a wah wah and a sustainer (compressor)
you can get everything for less money by this Behringer device, but if
you want to be able to turn the effects on or off, without delay, for
real-time usage, you better spend more money, to get old faithful stomp
boxes, or you maybe will decide to at least buy the 9,- € stomp boxes
from Behringer, instead of this all-in-one device.
So the reason that we mention drawbacks, we more often experience with
gear from Behringer, than with gear from other companies isn't hate,
it's experience.
Regards,
Ralf
9 Apr
9 Apr
12:45 p.m.
New subject: Behringer and Linux
On Wed, 8 Apr 2015 13:33:39 +0200
Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net> wrote:
On Wed, 8 Apr 2015 13:37:31 +1000 (EST), Patrick
Shirkey wrote:
FWIW, I'm quite positively impressed by the quality of the Behringer
X32, both as build quality, functionality and sound is concerned,
doubly so when I consider it's retail price...
Normally I'd shy away from buying/using most any Behringer product, but
in this case I think the product is really good. Of course remains to
see how it holds up over the years, and I don't know if this is a
general indication of a change or just the result of them buying a good
company.
--
Joakim
It does seem that some people just hate Behringer,
for what reason I
don't know.
it isn't hate, the reason is experience. We like Behringer for some
usages too.
18 Jun
18 Jun
5:37 p.m.
New subject: Behringer and Linux
So, let me revive this discussion by saying that I have purchased a
Behringer XR18 two weeks ago. I've used it in 4 Shows by now and so far I'm
positively impressed. If anyone has any specific questions, feel free to
ask. I'll probably not be able to answer immediately though as I'm
travelling/performing a lot at the moment.
Kind regards,
Felix
Joakim Hernberg <jhernberg(a)alchemy.lu> schrieb am Do., 9. Apr. 2015 um
12:45 Uhr:
On Wed, 8 Apr 2015 13:33:39 +0200
Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net> wrote:
On Wed, 8 Apr 2015 13:37:31 +1000 (EST), Patrick
Shirkey wrote:
FWIW, I'm quite positively impressed by the quality of the Behringer
X32, both as build quality, functionality and sound is concerned,
doubly so when I consider it's retail price...
Normally I'd shy away from buying/using most any Behringer product, but
in this case I think the product is really good. Of course remains to
see how it holds up over the years, and I don't know if this is a
general indication of a change or just the result of them buying a good
company.
--
Joakim
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Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
It does seem that some people just hate Behringer,
for what reason I
don't know.
it isn't hate, the reason is experience. We like Behringer for some
usages too. 
19 Jun
19 Jun
2:23 a.m.
New subject: Behringer and Linux
On Thu, 18 Jun 2015, Felix Homann wrote:
So, let me revive this discussion by saying that I
have purchased a Behringer
XR18 two weeks ago. I've used it in 4 Shows by now and so far I'm positively
impressed. If anyone has any specific questions, feel free to ask. I'll probably
not be able to answer immediately though as I'm travelling/performing a lot at
the moment.
"4 shows" means using as a live mixer? I am wondering if this includes
recording via USB to some Linux computer.
The line between "audio interface" and "digital mixer" is getting
pretty
fuzzy. There are a number of Audio interfaces that could also be used live
digital mixers. (have eq and effects and can be controlled by a computer
GUI)
Thanks for the feedback.
--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net
3446
days inactive
3524
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
16 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
-
Chris Caudle -
Dale Kazakore Powell -
Felix Homann -
Fons Adriaensen -
Joakim Hernberg -
Len Ovens -
mark hadman -
Patrick Shirkey -
Paul Davis -
Ralf Mardorf