Phonic Helix Board 24 on Fedora

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Jonathan Gazeley

12 Feb 2009 12 Feb '09

12:24 p.m.

Hi all, I'm trying to set up my Phonic Helix Board 24 on Fedora 10. I've added the CCRMA repository but I'm *not* running a CCMRA kernel. I have just used this repository to install ffado and jack. [jonathan@poseidon ~]$ uname -r 2.6.27.12-170.2.5.fc10.i686.PAE [jonathan@poseidon ~]$ rpm -q ffado ffado-2.0-0.6.rc1.fc10.ccrma.i386 Starting jack gives the output below. Running as root gives exactly the same output. I've made sure that all users have read/write permissions on the firewire port (chmod a+rw /dev/fw*) I'm a fairly experienced Linux user but I know very little about audio on Linux. Can anyone shed any light on this? I had the same Phonic device working on Fedora 8 some time ago but that computer is now a distant memory... Any help will be gratefully accepted! Thanks, Jonathan [jonathan@poseidon ~]$ jackd -d firewire jackdmp 1.9.1 Copyright 2001-2005 Paul Davis and others. Copyright 2004-2008 Grame. jackdmp comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY This is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it under certain conditions; see the file COPYING for details no message buffer overruns no message buffer overruns JACK server starting in non-realtime mode 17888687627: (ffado.cpp)[ 92] ffado_streaming_init: libffado 1.999.40- built Dec 12 2008 16:33:37 17891092850: Debug (bebob_mixer.cpp)[ 126] addElementForAllFunctionBlocks: Adding elements for functionblocks... libiec61883 warning: Established connection on channel 0. You may need to manually set the channel on the receiving node. libiec61883 warning: Established connection on channel 1. You may need to manually set the channel on the transmitting node. firewire ERR: Could not start streaming threads Cannot start driver JackServer::Start() failed with -1 17896388930: Debug (bebob_mixer.cpp)[ 81] ~Mixer: deleting Feature_Volume_1... 17896388955: Debug (bebob_mixer.cpp)[ 81] ~Mixer: deleting Feature_LRBalance_1... 17896388974: Debug (bebob_mixer.cpp)[ 81] ~Mixer: deleting Feature_Volume_2... 17896388987: Debug (bebob_mixer.cpp)[ 81] ~Mixer: deleting Feature_LRBalance_2... no message buffer overruns no message buffer overruns Failed to start server

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pete shorthose

13 Feb 13 Feb

1:50 p.m.

On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 16:24:23 +0000 Jonathan Gazeley <jonathan.gazeley(a)bristol.ac.uk> wrote:

...

I saw this error when i tried to start jack with optimistic period values. try with something considerably higher to test that (add -p4096 -n3 -r96000 to the command line invocation for example). That's too much latency for some (probably most) scenarios but it might get you a step closer to finding out what's wrong. Get a RT kernel setup too and try that. cheers, pete.

Pieter Palmers

14 Feb 14 Feb

12:14 p.m.

Jonathan Gazeley wrote:

...

Run jackd in realtime mode. Pieter

Mark Knecht

1:53 p.m.

On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 8:14 AM, Pieter Palmers <pieterp(a)joow.be> wrote:

...

Jonathan Gazeley wrote:

Run jackd in realtime mode. Pieter

Is his kernel even a real-time kernel? I don't get that from the uname output... - Mark

Pieter Palmers

15 Feb 15 Feb

6:36 a.m.

Mark Knecht wrote:

...

On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 8:14 AM, Pieter Palmers <pieterp(a)joow.be> wrote:

Jonathan Gazeley wrote:

Run jackd in realtime mode. Pieter

Is his kernel even a real-time kernel? I don't get that from the uname output...

What I mean is: jackd -R -d firewire That doesn't require a RT kernel. Don't expect FFADO to work properly when jack doesn't run in realtime mode (-R). The same applies for ALSA or other backends btw, but FFADO is particularly sensitive. Greets, Pieter

Mark Knecht

8:28 a.m.

On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 2:36 AM, Pieter Palmers <pieterp(a)joow.be> wrote:

...

Mark Knecht wrote:

On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 8:14 AM, Pieter Palmers <pieterp(a)joow.be> wrote:

Jonathan Gazeley wrote:

Run jackd in realtime mode. Pieter

Is his kernel even a real-time kernel? I don't get that from the uname output...

Right, and OP should not expect zero xruns if he isn't using a real-time kernel. There is a real rash lately of users trying to do real-time work without a real-time kernel. For some reason they put Jack support in MythTV and I've seen a couple of people there in the last few weeks that weren't even aware that there was a real-time kernel, much less actually using it, and they were complaining of xruns. - Mark

hollunder＠gmx.at

9:12 a.m.

On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 04:28:39 -0800 Mark Knecht <markknecht(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 2:36 AM, Pieter Palmers <pieterp(a)joow.be> wrote:

Mark Knecht wrote:

On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 8:14 AM, Pieter Palmers <pieterp(a)joow.be> wrote:

Jonathan Gazeley wrote: > > Hi all, > > I'm trying to set up my Phonic Helix Board 24 on Fedora 10. I've > added the CCRMA repository but I'm *not* running a CCMRA kernel. > I have just used this repository to install ffado and jack. > > [jonathan@poseidon ~]$ uname -r > 2.6.27.12-170.2.5.fc10.i686.PAE > > [jonathan@poseidon ~]$ rpm -q ffado > ffado-2.0-0.6.rc1.fc10.ccrma.i386 > > Starting jack gives the output below. Running as root gives > exactly the same output. I've made sure that all users have > read/write permissions on the firewire port (chmod a+rw /dev/fw*) > > I'm a fairly experienced Linux user but I know very little about > audio on Linux. Can anyone shed any light on this? I had the > same Phonic device working on Fedora 8 some time ago but that > computer is now a distant memory... > > Any help will be gratefully accepted! > Thanks, > Jonathan > > > [jonathan@poseidon ~]$ jackd -d firewire Run jackd in realtime mode. Pieter

Is his kernel even a real-time kernel? I don't get that from the uname output...

For some reason there is jack support in all the major video players and afaik it's done wrong in all of them (autoconnecting and disconnecting on several occasions, which renders it pretty much useless). My guess is that they just want to have a nice feature list... Philipp

Dave Phillips

9:17 a.m.

hollunder(a)gmx.at wrote:

...

Players that rely on PortAudio, GStreamer, or PulseAudio must utilize the backend's JACK implementation. The builders of those systems need to understand the non-utility of how the backends are handling JACK connectivity. OTOH, players that use JACK directly have no excuse for sub-standard handling of the connections. Best, dp

Mark Knecht

11:46 a.m.

On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 5:17 AM, Dave Phillips <dlphillips(a)woh.rr.com> wrote:

...

hollunder(a)gmx.at wrote:

\ No disagreements from me. However there is no education for the user of these players so somewhere along the way these nice folks start using Jack - good connections or not - and then they open something like the qjackctl message window - and then they see xruns - and then they start learning I guess. :-) The Circle of Life? - I'm Mark and I'm sticking with that story for now...

Jonathan Gazeley

16 Feb 16 Feb

2:36 p.m.

Pieter Palmers wrote:

...

Hi Pieter, Thanks for your post. Running jackd with the -R option breaks if I run as a regular user (permissions I guess) but running as root gives the same error as I originally posted in this thread. I've confirmed this on two computers, both running Fedora 10, one x86 and one x86_64. Cheers, Jonathan

Fernando Lopez-Lezcano

7:40 p.m.

On Thu, 2009-02-12 at 16:24 +0000, Jonathan Gazeley wrote:

...

The firewire stack that is built into the Fedora kernels is not compatible with FFADO. The Fedora kernels have been broken for firewire audio for a loooong time. If you want to use FFADO you will have to boot into the Planet CCRMA rt kernel which has been build with the old firewire stack (which probably will have other problems - such is the current state of rt patch, oh well). The issue has nothing to do with the rt patch or running with -R, it is just the wrong (newer) firewire stack. -- Fernando

...

[jonathan@poseidon ~]$ jackd -d firewire jackdmp 1.9.1 Copyright 2001-2005 Paul Davis and others. Copyright 2004-2008 Grame. jackdmp comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY This is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it under certain conditions; see the file COPYING for details no message buffer overruns no message buffer overruns JACK server starting in non-realtime mode 17888687627: (ffado.cpp)[ 92] ffado_streaming_init: libffado 1.999.40- built Dec 12 2008 16:33:37 17891092850: Debug (bebob_mixer.cpp)[ 126] addElementForAllFunctionBlocks: Adding elements for functionblocks... libiec61883 warning: Established connection on channel 0. You may need to manually set the channel on the receiving node. libiec61883 warning: Established connection on channel 1. You may need to manually set the channel on the transmitting node. firewire ERR: Could not start streaming threads Cannot start driver JackServer::Start() failed with -1 17896388930: Debug (bebob_mixer.cpp)[ 81] ~Mixer: deleting Feature_Volume_1... 17896388955: Debug (bebob_mixer.cpp)[ 81] ~Mixer: deleting Feature_LRBalance_1... 17896388974: Debug (bebob_mixer.cpp)[ 81] ~Mixer: deleting Feature_Volume_2... 17896388987: Debug (bebob_mixer.cpp)[ 81] ~Mixer: deleting Feature_LRBalance_2... no message buffer overruns no message buffer overruns Failed to start server

Fons Adriaensen

8:19 p.m.

On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 03:40:47PM -0800, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote:

...

The issue has nothing to do with the rt patch or running with -R, it is just the wrong (newer) firewire stack.

Hmm, is that the new fireware stack that Pieter told me about (IIRC at the door of the LAC2008 LSN location) and that would actually allow to simplify FFADO ?? Ciao, -- FA Laboratorio di Acustica ed Elettroacustica Parma, Italia O tu, che porte, correndo si ? E guerra e morte !

Fernando Lopez-Lezcano

8:30 p.m.

On Tue, 2009-02-17 at 01:20 +0100, Fons Adriaensen wrote:

...

On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 03:40:47PM -0800, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote:

The issue has nothing to do with the rt patch or running with -R, it is just the wrong (newer) firewire stack.

Hmm, is that the new fireware stack that Pieter told me about (IIRC at the door of the LAC2008 LSN location) and that would actually allow to simplify FFADO ??

Most probably (the so called "juju" stack). FFADO will eventually work with it, but since Fedora 7 (when Fedora very prematurely - IMHO - introduced it into their kernels) it has not worked with firewire audio interfaces. -- Fernando

Pieter Palmers

17 Feb 17 Feb

2:44 p.m.

Fons Adriaensen wrote:

...

On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 03:40:47PM -0800, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote:

The issue has nothing to do with the rt patch or running with -R, it is just the wrong (newer) firewire stack.

Hmm, is that the new fireware stack that Pieter told me about (IIRC at the door of the LAC2008 LSN location) and that would actually allow to simplify FFADO ??

Indeed, that's the one. Unfortunately I didn't get around implementing FFADO support for it yet. Mostly due to lack of time. And because it does lack some features we need, which don't seem to be high on the priority list (e.g. support for multiple streams). Besides, the authors claim backward compatibility at the library level, i.e. libraw1394 users like FFADO shouldn't have to care. But shifting it all to the 1394 guys is not completely fair. I do admit that we are not very noisy towards them. I guess that once more distro's start using the new stack that will change. But almost a year has passed since LAC'08 and my views on the topic have evolved a bit. While from a theoretical perspective it should be possible to implement FFADO in userspace, there are some issues that make life a bit harder than it should be. And if it were only software things I could think about fixing them. But there are also some hardware-level issues that need workarounds that can't be done in userspace. If you want more details, I suggest we discuss that at the entrance of some obscure venue in Parma ;). The bottom line is that I am planning to, using the current FFADO codebase as a reference, port the streaming code to the kernel, with a direct interface to ALSA. That should bring a performance improvement too. And it will also lighten the burden of supporting the zillion audio API's Linux developers seem to need. Greets, Pieter

Fernando Lopez-Lezcano

3:51 p.m.

On Tue, 2009-02-17 at 19:45 +0100, Pieter Palmers wrote:

...

Fons Adriaensen wrote:

On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 03:40:47PM -0800, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote:

The issue has nothing to do with the rt patch or running with -R, it is just the wrong (newer) firewire stack.

Hmm, is that the new fireware stack that Pieter told me about (IIRC at the door of the LAC2008 LSN location) and that would actually allow to simplify FFADO ??

My experience with this is that it currently does not work. Booting into the new stack, even with libraw1394 2.x, breaks FFADO. It does work fine with the old stack (same everything else). -- Fernando

...

But shifting it all to the 1394 guys is not completely fair. I do admit that we are not very noisy towards them. I guess that once more distro's start using the new stack that will change. But almost a year has passed since LAC'08 and my views on the topic have evolved a bit. While from a theoretical perspective it should be possible to implement FFADO in userspace, there are some issues that make life a bit harder than it should be. And if it were only software things I could think about fixing them. But there are also some hardware-level issues that need workarounds that can't be done in userspace. If you want more details, I suggest we discuss that at the entrance of some obscure venue in Parma ;). The bottom line is that I am planning to, using the current FFADO codebase as a reference, port the streaming code to the kernel, with a direct interface to ALSA. That should bring a performance improvement too. And it will also lighten the burden of supporting the zillion audio API's Linux developers seem to need. Greets, Pieter

Pieter Palmers

5:35 p.m.

Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote:

...

On Tue, 2009-02-17 at 19:45 +0100, Pieter Palmers wrote:

Fons Adriaensen wrote:

On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 03:40:47PM -0800, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote:

The issue has nothing to do with the rt patch or running with -R, it is just the wrong (newer) firewire stack.

Hmm, is that the new fireware stack that Pieter told me about (IIRC at the door of the LAC2008 LSN location) and that would actually allow to simplify FFADO ??

My experience with this is that it currently does not work. Booting into the new stack, even with libraw1394 2.x, breaks FFADO. It does work fine with the old stack (same everything else).

Oops... after rereading my own text I realize that I left out this crucial bit of information. Indeed, even though the idea is that it is compatible, reality is that it is not. Thanks for the clarification, Pieter

...

-- Fernando

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participants (8)

Dave Phillips
Fernando Lopez-Lezcano
Fons Adriaensen
hollunder＠gmx.at
Jonathan Gazeley
Mark Knecht
pete shorthose
Pieter Palmers