8 Mar
2015
8 Mar
'15
9:34 p.m.
(Please excuse if this is a stupid question...)
I am learning Ardour doing some practice on my system (Debian stable, RT
kernel, RT tuning, MAudio Audiophile 2496 PCI, 3GHz 4core CPU, 8GB RAM,
JACK buffer 512). Working with a 3min stereo audio (24bit, 88.1kHz) I
have noticed DSP goes to 100% when exporting (WAV)...
Is it normal (simply Ardour is using all the available resources during
the export) or something is going wrong (and I will have glithces/pops
in the output file)?
Thanks
--
al3xu5 / dotcommon
Support free software! Join FSF: http://www.fsf.org/jf?referrer=7535
8 Mar
8 Mar
10:58 p.m.
On Sun, Mar 08, 2015 at 08:34:42PM +0000, alexus / dotcommon wrote:
(Please excuse if this is a stupid question...)
I am learning Ardour doing some practice on my system (Debian
stable, RT kernel, RT tuning, MAudio Audiophile 2496 PCI, 3GHz 4core
CPU, 8GB RAM, JACK buffer 512). Working with a 3min stereo audio
(24bit, 88.1kHz) I have noticed DSP goes to 100% when exporting
(WAV)...
Is it normal (simply Ardour is using all the available resources
during the export) or something is going wrong (and I will have
glithces/pops in the output file)?
It's perfectly normal. Export puts Jack in 'freewheeling' mode
which means that it doesn't sync to the soundcard but starts
a new cycle as soon as the previous one has ended (the sound
card output gets 'silence' for output meanwhile, and input is
discarded). So things will run 'as fast as possible' which
means CPU load will go up to 100%.
Ciao,
--
FA
A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia.
It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris
and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow)
11 Mar
11 Mar
7:17 p.m.
On 2015-03-08 21:58, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
On Sun, Mar 08, 2015 at 08:34:42PM +0000, alexus /
dotcommon wrote:
Great.
Thank you for the clarification.
Ciao!
--
al3xu5 / dotcommon
Support free software! Join FSF: http://www.fsf.org/jf?referrer=7535
(Please excuse if this is a stupid question...)
I am learning Ardour doing some practice on my system (Debian
stable, RT kernel, RT tuning, MAudio Audiophile 2496 PCI, 3GHz 4core
CPU, 8GB RAM, JACK buffer 512). Working with a 3min stereo audio
(24bit, 88.1kHz) I have noticed DSP goes to 100% when exporting
(WAV)...
Is it normal (simply Ardour is using all the available resources
during the export) or something is going wrong (and I will have
glithces/pops in the output file)?
It's perfectly normal. Export puts Jack in 'freewheeling' mode
which means that it doesn't sync to the soundcard but starts
a new cycle as soon as the previous one has ended (the sound
card output gets 'silence' for output meanwhile, and input is
discarded). So things will run 'as fast as possible' which
means CPU load will go up to 100%. 
19 Mar
19 Mar
9:30 a.m.
On 09/03/15 04:58, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
On Sun, Mar 08, 2015 at 08:34:42PM +0000, alexus /
dotcommon wrote:
But what if you want to listen to audio from a different application
connected to Jack while exporting? Surely it should just disconnect from
Jack (although this could possible cause routing issues on reconnecting
once finished) and run as fast as possible using max CPU cycles.
Actually I know I have personally exported files after normalising while
listening to different music connected through Jack so your description
seems a little strange to me... Does Ardour export with external sources
(eg jack connected soft synths) so only the internal audio? If the
former then it should always be done real time (maybe the source comes
from the real world, not the digital realm) if the latter then there is
no real to involve Jack, or anything related to the audio interface side
of things at all!
Dale.
(Please excuse if this is a stupid question...)
I am learning Ardour doing some practice on my system (Debian
stable, RT kernel, RT tuning, MAudio Audiophile 2496 PCI, 3GHz 4core
CPU, 8GB RAM, JACK buffer 512). Working with a 3min stereo audio
(24bit, 88.1kHz) I have noticed DSP goes to 100% when exporting
(WAV)...
Is it normal (simply Ardour is using all the available resources
during the export) or something is going wrong (and I will have
glithces/pops in the output file)?
It's perfectly normal. Export puts Jack in
'freewheeling' mode
which means that it doesn't sync to the soundcard but starts
a new cycle as soon as the previous one has ended (the sound
card output gets 'silence' for output meanwhile, and input is
discarded). So things will run 'as fast as possible' which
means CPU load will go up to 100%.
Ciao,
5:17 p.m.
On Thu, 19 Mar 2015, Dale Kazakore Powell wrote:
On 09/03/15 04:58, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
When you do this, does the CPU load still go to 100%? Ardour may not be
able to switch Jack to freewheeling while another application is connected
to one of the HW ports and so exporting would be done at RT speed. This is
not a good idea if you are close to the edge with effects/softsynths as
freewheeling does not ever have xruns. Also, export speed will be improved
if jack can freewheel even in a case where cpu use is quite high in RT.
--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net
On Sun, Mar 08, 2015 at 08:34:42PM +0000, alexus
/ dotcommon wrote:
But what if you want to listen to audio from a different application
connected to Jack while exporting? Surely it should just disconnect from Jack
(although this could possible cause routing issues on reconnecting once
finished) and run as fast as possible using max CPU cycles. (Please excuse if this is a stupid question...)
I am learning Ardour doing some practice on my system (Debian
stable, RT kernel, RT tuning, MAudio Audiophile 2496 PCI, 3GHz 4core
CPU, 8GB RAM, JACK buffer 512). Working with a 3min stereo audio
(24bit, 88.1kHz) I have noticed DSP goes to 100% when exporting
(WAV)...
Is it normal (simply Ardour is using all the available resources
during the export) or something is going wrong (and I will have
glithces/pops in the output file)?
It's perfectly normal. Export puts Jack in
'freewheeling' mode
which means that it doesn't sync to the soundcard but starts
a new cycle as soon as the previous one has ended (the sound
card output gets 'silence' for output meanwhile, and input is
discarded). So things will run 'as fast as possible' which
means CPU load will go up to 100%.
Ciao,
7:03 p.m.
On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 3:29 AM, Dale Kazakore Powell <dj_kaza(a)hotmail.com>
wrote:
But what if you want to listen to audio from a different application
connected to Jack while exporting?
That's basically ridiculous.
Surely it should just disconnect from Jack (although
this could possible
cause routing issues on reconnecting once finished) and run as fast as
possible using max CPU cycles.
You're ignoring the idea that export may involve other JACK clients. It may
involve, for example, a JACK client functioning as a software synthesizer,
or a JACK client function as an "outboard" FX processor. Disconnecting from
JACK would be completely wrong in such cases, and special casing the
examples where we *could* disconnect from JACK is an absurd amount of extra
work given that we are using JACK's ability to drive the process cycle AND
share data (even within Ardour itself.
20 Mar
20 Mar
5:31 a.m.
On 20/03/15 01:03, Paul Davis wrote:
Yeah I realised
afterwards I didn't know if it exported with external
sources. I still can't see how it can go into freewheeling if it does
that, because how does it know these sources are from soft-synths and
not real-world instrument which obviously need to be incorporated in
realtime?
Try
yourself. Just double-checked here playing music through Audacious
set to output directly to Jack and exported a single audio file as mp3
as no interruption of music. Maybe it's because it is only a single
audio file, so 100% contained within the Ardour session...
On 19/03/15 23:14, Len Ovens wrote:
Surely a realtime option would
get around this limit, no?? I know
Renosie added exactly that option so that external sources or realtime
knob-twidling could be included at the time of the export. (Although
have to admit I have not tested it, or really touched Renoise since
migrating to Linux, so not sure if it works with Jack.)
So why not external effect such as a hardware compressor on your export?
Not trying to argue here, just your claims seem to go against my
personal experience so would like to understand why as you guys are
obviously much more knowledgeable than myself, especially having the
main coder of the software discussed commenting on the thread.
In fact, it seems Ardour ALWAYS disconnects from Jack when not playing!!
Keep the Connections tab open start and stop playback. I see the source
popping up and disappearing with connections to my output. There is no
connection made to Jack when an Export is started! At least when there
are no external Jack clients in the mix... This is using US14.04 with
the KXStudio repos. Seems to claim Jack uses PortAudio, and the output
in Jack is named thusly.
Dale.
On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 3:29 AM, Dale Kazakore Powell
<dj_kaza(a)hotmail.com <mailto:dj_kaza@hotmail.com>> wrote:
But what if you want to listen to audio from a different
application connected to Jack while exporting?
That's basically ridiculous.
Why? I don't think it's ridiculous in the slightest! Saying I have done
it a lot I guess that should be obvious... My previous install I had PA
completely disable so everything always went through Jack (well Jack2
dBus version I believe, if that makes a difference) and sometimes I
might want to listen to music while (batch) processing some other audio
files. If Jack went into freewheeling then it would prevent my audio I
was listening to as soon as Export was started. It doesn't!
Surely it should just disconnect from Jack (although this could
possible cause routing issues on reconnecting once finished) and
run as fast as possible using max CPU cycles.
You're ignoring the idea that export may involve other JACK clients.
It may involve, for example, a JACK client functioning as a software
synthesizer, or a JACK client function as an "outboard" FX processor.
Disconnecting from JACK would be completely wrong in such cases, and
special casing the examples where we *could* disconnect from JACK is
an absurd amount of extra work given that we are using JACK's ability
to drive the process cycle AND share data (even within Ardour itself.
Or rather, you're only reading half of my post and ignoring the section
where I ask questions about exactly that!!
On 20/03/15 01:03, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 03:29:56PM +0700, Dale
Kazakore Powell wrote:
Incorrect!
But what if you want to listen to audio from a
different application
connected to Jack while exporting?
Not possible. Surely it
should just disconnect from Jack.
That would work only if there are no other Jack
clients in the
signal path of the export. In theory it should be possible to
isolate only those that actually are connected somehow to Ardour,
and let the rest run normally, but that is not how it works. Actually I
know I have personally exported files after normalising
while listening to different music connected through Jack so your
description seems a little strange to me...
That seems impossible.
When you do this, does the CPU load still go to 100%? Ardour may not
be able to switch Jack to freewheeling while another application is
connected to one of the HW ports and so exporting would be done at RT
speed. This is not a good idea if you are close to the edge with
effects/softsynths as freewheeling does not ever have xruns. Also,
export speed will be improved if jack can freewheel even in a case
where cpu use is quite high in RT.
--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net
Just double-checked. Exporting a 35min long mix as mp3 took a little
over one minute (so clearly nothing like realtime) and Task Manager
showed 50% usage and Top 100% usage so it appears to have maxed out a
single core. Jack CPU stayed at ~2.2% usage (very conservative settings
at the moment.)
On 20/03/15 01:03, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
Does Ardour
export with
external sources (eg jack connected soft synths) so only the
internal audio? If the former then it should always be done real
time (maybe the source comes from the real world, not the digital
realm)
If any of the sources required for the export is not a Jack client
or not synced to Ardour or not capable of running in freewheeling
mode, you simply can't expect export to work. if the latter then there is no real to involve
Jack, or
anything related to the audio interface side of things at all!
No, you could still
have processing in other Jack clients which
are connected to Ardour (i.e. external inserts rather than plugins).
A common example would be a mastering processer such as Jamin.
Ciao,
7:41 a.m.
On Fri, 20 Mar 2015, Dale Kazakore Powell wrote:
In fact, it seems Ardour ALWAYS disconnects from Jack
when not playing!! Keep the
Connections tab open start and stop playback. I see the source popping up and
disappearing with connections to my output. There is no connection made to Jack
when an Export is started! At least when there are no external Jack clients in
the mix... This is using US14.04 with the KXStudio repos. Seems to claim Jack
uses PortAudio, and the output in Jack is named thusly.
That would be audacity and you have pinpounted audacity's main jack
problem. You will also note that the exact name of the ports changes from
one record to the next as well. Ardour is different.
--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net
1:29 p.m.
On 20/03/15 13:38, Len Ovens wrote:
That would be audacity
You're right, I'm being stupid. Too many programs beginning with the
letter A for my tiny little brain to keep up with sometimes! (Especially
in this heat but that's another, unrelated issue!) Feel like a fool
now!!! Maybe when I'd not sweating buckets I might try and do some
actually relevant tests.... But I suspect there is zero point as you
guys have always proven to know your stuff in the past!
I do still think a real-time export option for Ardour, to keep Jack
working with clients unrelated to the project plus also giving you the
ability to export through external effects/with external
sources/real-time adjustments could be a good idea for an option if it
could be made to work though.
Apologies to all I have contradicted, when I was thinking about my
experience of steak while you were all talking about cheese.
Dale.
2:59 p.m.
On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 7:29 AM, Dale Kazakore Powell <dj_kaza(a)hotmail.com>
wrote:
On 20/03/15 13:38, Len Ovens wrote:
it is trivial as a 2 step process. add new track, connect inputs to master
out, disconnect outputs. engage rec-enable. play session. you now have a
track containing a recording of the entire session. export it or do
whatever you wish with it.
we have extremely limited developer resources, and changing this into a
single-step process is not a high priority at present.
That would be audacity
You're right, I'm being stupid. Too many programs beginning with the
letter A for my tiny little brain to keep up with sometimes! (Especially in
this heat but that's another, unrelated issue!) Feel like a fool now!!!
Maybe when I'd not sweating buckets I might try and do some actually
relevant tests.... But I suspect there is zero point as you guys have
always proven to know your stuff in the past!
I do still think a real-time export option for Ardour, to keep Jack
working with clients unrelated to the project plus also giving you the
ability to export through external effects/with external sources/real-time
adjustments could be a good idea for an option if it could be made to work
though.
1:51 p.m.
On 20/03/15 13:38, Len Ovens wrote:
That would be audacity
You're right, I'm being stupid. Too many programs beginning with the
letter A for my tiny little brain to keep up with sometimes! (Especially
in this heat but that's another, unrelated issue!) Feel like a fool
now!!! Maybe when I'd not sweating buckets I might try and do some
actually relevant tests.... But I suspect there is zero point as you
guys have always proven to know your stuff in the past!
I do still think a real-time export option for Ardour, to keep Jack
working with clients unrelated to the project plus also giving you the
ability to export through external effects/with external
sources/real-time adjustments could be a good idea for an option if it
could be made to work though.
Apologies to all I have contradicted, when I was thinking about my
experience of steak while you were all talking about cheese.
Dale.
19 Mar
19 Mar
7:03 p.m.
On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 03:29:56PM +0700, Dale Kazakore Powell wrote:
But what if you want to listen to audio from a
different application
connected to Jack while exporting?
Not possible.
Surely it should just disconnect from Jack.
That would work only if there are no other Jack clients in the
signal path of the export. In theory it should be possible to
isolate only those that actually are connected somehow to Ardour,
and let the rest run normally, but that is not how it works.
Actually I know I have personally exported files after
normalising
while listening to different music connected through Jack so your
description seems a little strange to me...
That seems impossible.
Does Ardour export with
external sources (eg jack connected soft synths) so only the
internal audio? If the former then it should always be done real
time (maybe the source comes from the real world, not the digital
realm)
If any of the sources required for the export is not a Jack client
or not synced to Ardour or not capable of running in freewheeling
mode, you simply can't expect export to work.
if the latter then there is no real to involve Jack,
or
anything related to the audio interface side of things at all!
No, you could still have processing in other Jack clients which
are connected to Ardour (i.e. external inserts rather than plugins).
A common example would be a mastering processer such as Jamin.
Ciao,
--
FA
A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia.
It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris
and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow)
3586
days inactive
3598
days old
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11 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
-
alexus / dotcommon -
Dale Kazakore Powell -
Fons Adriaensen -
Len Ovens -
Paul Davis