11 Jul
2012
11 Jul
'12
10:14 a.m.
VirtualBox only supports pulseaudio...
Are you sure about that?? I used VirtualBox here, and don't have pulse
installed. Virtualbox uses alsa here just fine.
11 Jul
11 Jul
7:18 p.m.
New subject: Multiple audio configuration requirements
So now I'm running Gnome Classic (no effects).
You're aware that GNOME Classic soon or later will be dropped? Last time
I tested GNOME3 IIRC "Classic" had another name and needed more
resources than GNOME2.
I switched to Xfce, for older installs it's a good replacement for
GNOME2, for new installs Xfce and GNOME apps won't work together, since
font and background colors sometimes are painful, LXDE might be the
better choice nowadays.
YMMV!
Ralf
9:23 p.m.
New subject: Multiple audio configuration requirements
On 07/11/2012 07:18 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
IIRC, Gnome "Classic" is just an imitation of the GNOME2 UI running on
top of GNOME3.
So now I'm running Gnome Classic (no
effects).
You're aware that GNOME Classic soon or later will be dropped? Last time
I tested GNOME3 IIRC "Classic" had another name and needed more
resources than GNOME2. I switched to Xfce, for older installs it's a good
replacement for
GNOME2, for new installs Xfce and GNOME apps won't work together, since
font and background colors sometimes are painful,
Hmm, my Xfce installs from Debian Sid don't have any such problems, but
I don't use a lot of GNOME apps.
LXDE might be the better choice nowadays.
I understand LXDE has stability problems. But it seems to work on the
audio distros I've tried that used it.
--
David
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://clanjones.org/david/
http://dancing-treefrog.deviantart.com/
9:25 p.m.
New subject: Multiple audio configuration requirements
On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 19:18:09 +0200
Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net> wrote:
Personally I think Gnome jumped the shark years ago with their 'we know best'
attitude. These days I use a simplified debian install, with openbox as both
the window and session manager. Apart from a few gtk based apps, I don't touch
Gnome at all.
--
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.
So now I'm running Gnome Classic (no
effects).
You're aware that GNOME Classic soon or later will be dropped? Last time
I tested GNOME3 IIRC "Classic" had another name and needed more
resources than GNOME2.
I switched to Xfce, for older installs it's a good replacement for
GNOME2, for new installs Xfce and GNOME apps won't work together, since
font and background colors sometimes are painful, LXDE might be the
better choice nowadays.
YMMV!
Ralf
9:30 p.m.
New subject: Multiple audio configuration requirements
On 07/11/2012 09:25 AM, Folderol wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 19:18:09 +0200
Ralf Mardorf<ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net> wrote:
Personally I think Gnome jumped the shark years ago with their 'we know best'
attitude. These days I use a simplified debian install, with openbox as both
the window and session manager. Apart from a few gtk based apps, I don't touch
Gnome at all.
I'm firmly convinced that the GNOME design team begins every session
with the question, "What more functionality can we remove from users
today?" Eventually, the GNOME UI will consist of a single button in the
middle of the screen reading, "Shutdown computer". ;-)
--
David
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://clanjones.org/david/
http://dancing-treefrog.deviantart.com/
So now I'm running Gnome Classic (no
effects).
You're aware that GNOME Classic soon or later will be dropped? Last time
I tested GNOME3 IIRC "Classic" had another name and needed more
resources than GNOME2.
I switched to Xfce, for older installs it's a good replacement for
GNOME2, for new installs Xfce and GNOME apps won't work together, since
font and background colors sometimes are painful, LXDE might be the
better choice nowadays.
YMMV!
Ralf 
9:39 p.m.
New subject: Multiple audio configuration requirements
On 07/11/2012 09:30 PM, david wrote:
On 07/11/2012 09:25 AM, Folderol wrote:
.. which will only appear if you hold down ALT.
On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 19:18:09 +0200
Ralf Mardorf<ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net> wrote:
Personally I think Gnome jumped the shark years ago with their 'we
know best'
attitude. These days I use a simplified debian install, with openbox
as both
the window and session manager. Apart from a few gtk based apps, I
don't touch
Gnome at all.
I'm firmly convinced that the GNOME design team begins every session
with the question, "What more functionality can we remove from users
today?" Eventually, the GNOME UI will consist of a single button in the
middle of the screen reading, "Shutdown computer". ;-)
So now I'm running Gnome Classic (no
effects).
You're aware that GNOME Classic soon or later will be dropped? Last time
I tested GNOME3 IIRC "Classic" had another name and needed more
resources than GNOME2.
I switched to Xfce, for older installs it's a good replacement for
GNOME2, for new installs Xfce and GNOME apps won't work together, since
font and background colors sometimes are painful, LXDE might be the
better choice nowadays.
YMMV!
Ralf 
9:42 p.m.
New subject: Multiple audio configuration requirements
Am Mittwoch, den 11.07.2012, 21:39 +0200 schrieb Brendan Jones:
On 07/11/2012 09:30 PM, david wrote:
good shot :-))
On 07/11/2012 09:25 AM, Folderol wrote:
.. which will only appear if you hold down ALT.
On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 19:18:09 +0200
Ralf Mardorf<ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net> wrote:
I'm firmly convinced that the GNOME design team begins every session
with the question, "What more functionality can we remove from users
today?" Eventually, the GNOME UI will consist of a single button in the
middle of the screen reading, "Shutdown computer". ;-)
> So now I'm running Gnome Classic (no effects).
You're aware that GNOME Classic soon or later will be dropped? Last time
I tested GNOME3 IIRC "Classic" had another name and needed more
resources than GNOME2.
I switched to Xfce, for older installs it's a good replacement for
GNOME2, for new installs Xfce and GNOME apps won't work together, since
font and background colors sometimes are painful, LXDE might be the
better choice nowadays.
YMMV!
Ralf
Personally I think Gnome jumped the shark years ago with their 'we
know best'
attitude. These days I use a simplified debian install, with openbox
as both
the window and session manager. Apart from a few gtk based apps, I
don't touch
Gnome at all. 
12 Jul
12 Jul
11:21 a.m.
New subject: [OT] GNOME UI
On 12/07/12 03:30, david wrote:
I'm firmly convinced that the GNOME design team
begins every session with the
question, "What more functionality can we remove from users today?"
Eventually,
the GNOME UI will consist of a single button in the middle of the screen
reading, "Shutdown computer". ;-)
Perhaps its a matter of what users and platforms they are catering for ... a UI
that works well on the smaller, hand held devices with touch interfaces rather
than a mouse and keyboard is very important if that is what you are using, and
lots of devices are like that now. It is becoming the most familiar interface.
It is easy to confuse 'intuitive' with 'familiar' and believe that what
one has
learned is somehow the natural way to do things, but this newer style of
interface is becoming the most common one => familiar => 'intuitive'. The
Gnome
version isn't the result of a collection random decisions along the way, it was
described and planned in detail years ago, when the work building it was
starting to get serious. Looking closely at UI habits derived from hardware with
particular limits and histories, then deciding what is just habit and what
really contributes to a good working environment, is a very important part of
making a good UI. See this 2009 document:
http://www.gnome.org/%7Emccann/shell/design/GNOME_Shell-20091114.pdf
it predicts the Gnome 3 interface fairly accurately, and is clearly the origin
of their current design principles page a couple of years down the track:
https://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Design/Principles
Workstations like audio studio setups are probably much better off with
something lighter anyway ... lxde, xfce, openbox etc. And those have always been
very customisable if you want to do your own thing in a desktop, many coders who
work heavily with text files and like to create their own workspace seem to have
gone with one or other of those. KDE still caters for those who like the older
windows on a desktop kind of thing, but it seems to be less and less the focus
of distributions ... probably for the reasons above.
Personally I have had xfce as my desktop for a few years, I got annoyed with all
the 'helpful' but limited GUI stuff and got stung by some nice little
customisation options I had used not being supported into the next versions of
my desktop managers, but at the moment I am looking at how to integrate smaller
tablets into my workflow, especially when there isn't a mouse or keyboard in reach.
Simon
11:32 a.m.
New subject: [OT] GNOME UI
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 1:21 PM, Simon Wise wrote:
On 12/07/12 03:30, david wrote:
> I'm firmly convinced that the GNOME design team begins every session with
> the
> question, "What more functionality can we remove from users today?"
> Eventually,
> the GNOME UI will consist of a single button in the middle of the screen
> reading, "Shutdown computer". ;-)
"Perfection is achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to
add, but when there is nothing left to take away” – Antoine de
Saint-Exupery
I wish more people had that in mind :)
Perhaps its a matter of what users and platforms they
are catering for ... a
UI that works well on the smaller, hand held devices with touch interfaces
rather than a mouse and keyboard is very important if that is what you are
using, and lots of devices are like that now. It is becoming the most
familiar interface.
OTOH, reportedly G3 works just fine for desktop users with no
preconceived ideas :)
Alexandre Prokoudine
http://libregraphicsworld.org
11:44 a.m.
New subject: [OT] GNOME UI
On 12/07/12 17:32, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 1:21 PM, Simon Wise wrote:
Which is a much more direct way of saying what I blathered on about in the next
paragraphs.
It is worth giving the new interfaces a serious try, not just spend a day or so
feeling uncomfortable because the familiar things have changed and you haven't
learnt the new ways to do things.
Simon
On 12/07/12 03:30, david wrote:
> I'm firmly convinced that the GNOME design team begins every session with
> the
> question, "What more functionality can we remove from users today?"
> Eventually,
> the GNOME UI will consist of a single button in the middle of the screen
> reading, "Shutdown computer". ;-)
"Perfection is achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to
add, but when there is nothing left to take away” – Antoine de
Saint-Exupery
I wish more people had that in mind :)
Perhaps its a matter of what users and platforms
they are catering for ... a
UI that works well on the smaller, hand held devices with touch interfaces
rather than a mouse and keyboard is very important if that is what you are
using, and lots of devices are like that now. It is becoming the most
familiar interface.
OTOH, reportedly G3 works just fine for desktop users with no
preconceived ideas :) 
9:35 p.m.
New subject: [OT] GNOME UI
On 07/12/2012 05:32 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
"Perfection is achieved perfection not when there
is nothing left to
add, but when there is nothing left to take away” – Antoine de
Saint-Exupery
I wish more people had that in mind :)
Yeah, if all our user interfaces resembled "The Little Prince", we'd get
so much more done.
I often hear reduced functionality touted as a feature. iOS users like
to claim that not having full multitasking is actually a plus, much as
Mac users did before OS X gave it to them, and Microsoft users did
before Windows NT. I tend to view praise for the absence of a popular
feature as sitting somewhere between the sunk-cost fallacy and Stockholm
syndrome.
Personally, I dumped both GNOME and Unity last year and am pretty happy
with Xfce for coding and making music. It stays out of my way, uses less
than 5% of my screen real estate. (It's also much, much more friendly to
being controlled remotely, as I'm doing right now, than the other two.)
The Ubuntu Studio guys have come to the same conclusion in the last
year, it seems. I think it's a good one.
But if I ever have a need to use a tablet with something other than
Android, sure, I'll look at them again. And I love the search-focused UI
paradigm... on my phone.
Rob
13 Jul
13 Jul
3:40 a.m.
New subject: [OT] GNOME UI
On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 1:05 AM, Rob <lau(a)kudla.org> wrote:
On 07/12/2012 05:32 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
My debian system's upgrades got stuck on gnome, ie it would not upgrade
basic system stuff like apt without upgrading half a GB of gnome stuff.
This was some concern so I switched to xfce removed as much gnome as I
could and reinstalled. Considering that xfce is new to me the experience
was not too unfriendly.
Then one day I find all the windows stuck in the left corner with the
buttons inaccessible.
So now I am back to gnome(3). The new default is completely unusable so I
tried 'classic.' It at least works except that half the things that used
to work have stopped working.
"Perfection is achieved perfection not when
there is nothing left to
add, but when there is nothing left to take away” – Antoine de
Saint-Exupery
I wish more people had that in mind :)
Yeah, if all our user interfaces resembled "The Little Prince", we'd get
so much more done.
I often hear reduced functionality touted as a feature. iOS users like
to claim that not having full multitasking is actually a plus, much as
Mac users did before OS X gave it to them, and Microsoft users did
before Windows NT. I tend to view praise for the absence of a popular
feature as sitting somewhere between the sunk-cost fallacy and Stockholm
syndrome.
Personally, I dumped both GNOME and Unity last year and am pretty happy
with Xfce for coding and making music. It stays out of my way, uses less
than 5% of my screen real estate. (It's also much, much more friendly to
being controlled remotely, as I'm doing right now, than the other two.)
The Ubuntu Studio guys have come to the same conclusion in the last
year, it seems. I think it's a good one.
But if I ever have a need to use a tablet with something other than
Android, sure, I'll look at them again. And I love the search-focused UI
paradigm... on my phone.
Rob
5:49 a.m.
New subject: [OT] GNOME UI
What is comforting about this whole discussion to me is that, despite
numerous opinions, we all have the freedom of choice, and can choose
exactly the environment that fits our needs and desires.
Nobody is forcing anybody else to use their desktop environment.
On 7/12/12, Rustom Mody <rustompmody(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 1:05 AM, Rob
<lau(a)kudla.org> wrote:
On 07/12/2012 05:32 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine
wrote:
My debian system's upgrades got stuck on gnome, ie it would not upgrade
basic system stuff like apt without upgrading half a GB of gnome stuff.
This was some concern so I switched to xfce removed as much gnome as I
could and reinstalled. Considering that xfce is new to me the experience
was not too unfriendly.
Then one day I find all the windows stuck in the left corner with the
buttons inaccessible.
So now I am back to gnome(3). The new default is completely unusable so I
tried 'classic.' It at least works except that half the things that used
to work have stopped working.
"Perfection is achieved perfection not when
there is nothing left to
add, but when there is nothing left to take away” – Antoine de
Saint-Exupery
I wish more people had that in mind :)
Yeah, if all our user interfaces resembled "The Little Prince", we'd get
so much more done.
I often hear reduced functionality touted as a feature. iOS users like
to claim that not having full multitasking is actually a plus, much as
Mac users did before OS X gave it to them, and Microsoft users did
before Windows NT. I tend to view praise for the absence of a popular
feature as sitting somewhere between the sunk-cost fallacy and Stockholm
syndrome.
Personally, I dumped both GNOME and Unity last year and am pretty happy
with Xfce for coding and making music. It stays out of my way, uses less
than 5% of my screen real estate. (It's also much, much more friendly to
being controlled remotely, as I'm doing right now, than the other two.)
The Ubuntu Studio guys have come to the same conclusion in the last
year, it seems. I think it's a good one.
But if I ever have a need to use a tablet with something other than
Android, sure, I'll look at them again. And I love the search-focused UI
paradigm... on my phone.
Rob
6:27 p.m.
New subject: [OT] GNOME UI
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 8:49 PM, Egor Sanin <egor.sanin(a)gmail.com> wrote:
What is comforting about this whole discussion to me
is that, despite
numerous opinions, we all have the freedom of choice, and can choose
exactly the environment that fits our needs and desires.
Nobody is forcing anybody else to use their desktop environment.
Yes. The joy of Linux and free software.
I installed cinnamon a few weeks ago. It's quite nice, but has some
rough edges which end up annoying me. So, for now, I'll stick with
xfce4. But, give cinnamon a few more revisions and I may switch!
--
**** Listen to my CD at http://www.mellowood.ca/music/cedars ****
Bob van der Poel ** Wynndel, British Columbia, CANADA **
EMAIL: bob(a)mellowood.ca
WWW: http://www.mellowood.ca
14 Jul
14 Jul
6:51 a.m.
New subject: [OT] GNOME UI
On 13/07/12 09:40, Rustom Mody wrote:
Then one day I find all the windows stuck in the left
corner with the
buttons inaccessible.
that happened to me once ... the package maximus messed with configurations it
shouldn't have ... assuming the DM was either Gnome or KDE, then failed to
change it back with a purge. It was very hard to fix, since after the purge I
had no idea what had been reconfigured and not restored, there were no clues in
the package, but it was some Gnome configuration that had been set up by maximus
to change the Gnome desktop behaviour and was a disaster without Gnome running.
simon
6:59 a.m.
New subject: [OT] GNOME UI
On Sat, Jul 14, 2012 at 9:57 AM, Simon Wise <simonzwise(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On 13/07/12 09:40, Rustom Mody wrote:
Then one day I find all the windows stuck in the left corner with the
Well I got round it by deleting
.cache/sessions/xfce4-session-<something-or-other>
buttons inaccessible.
that happened to me once ... the package maximus messed with
configurations it shouldn't have ... assuming the DM was either Gnome or
KDE, then failed to change it back with a purge. It was very hard to fix,
since after the purge I had no idea what had been reconfigured and not
restored, there were no clues in the package, but it was some Gnome
configuration that had been set up by maximus to change the Gnome desktop
behaviour and was a disaster without Gnome running.
simon
7:13 a.m.
New subject: [OT] GNOME UI
On 13/07/12 03:35, Rob wrote:
But if I ever have a need to use a tablet with
something other than
Android, sure, I'll look at them again. And I love the search-focused UI
paradigm... on my phone.
done well this kind of search focus could be very nice on a laptop or desktop
while writing, researching, planning something, communicating about an idea or
project, even developing software if the searching was right (and that's a lot
of the uses for a desktop or laptop).
There is very little reason for moment to moment access to your data to match
the underlying organisation on your machine any more ... but it would probably
just get in the way in an audio studio or on stage, but our kind of uses are
pretty specialised and I expect to need to set up something different for these.
Simon
12 Jul
12 Jul
12:24 p.m.
New subject: [OT] GNOME UI
On 07/11/2012 11:21 PM, Simon Wise wrote:
On 12/07/12 03:30, david wrote:
Just shows me that they've been practicing their bad design philosophy
for many years. I have tried GNOME3 and KDE4. I found both got in the
way far more than they helped. I also have used GNOME2, and didn't like
it, either. While there is value in simplifying things, there is also
the danger of simplifying too much.
"Nothing is 'intuitive' in its fullest sense." Everything you think is
"intuitive" about any computer interface is something you learned about
that interface - and have forgotten you learned. Interfaces that violate
well-established, well-learned user expectations and experiences are not
intuitive. They are rude and make users feel stupid. They make users
feel dictated to by "I know better than you how you should do this task"
"designers" who far too many times are more wrapped up in being "kewl"
and buffing up their egos than in producing a good, functional UI for
others. (Same phenomenon occurs amongst graphic designers pretending to
be web designers.)
But then, I'm weird. People blog about how tablet/smartphone UIs will
take over the desktop. I think the whole idea of coming up with a common
UI that is perfect for both desktop and tablet/smartphone use is a grand
exercise in misguided stupidity. Fortunately for Linux, Windows 8 seems
to be making that great mistake for us. Now I just hope Linux desktop
environments won't do their usual thing and imitate it ... At least
Libre/OpenOffice seem to have refused to imitate the idiotic MS Office
"ribbon" interface.
For audio users, there's the added layer of user expectations and usage
modes that arises from their musical training and experience. If you're
a musician who doesn't read music, you might consider sheet music
completely useless: "Why are the developers wasting their time on that?"
Someone who's trained and reads music would respond, "How could you
possibly do without it?" and find it difficult (as I do) to work with a
bunch of musicians who don't read music, yet want everything tightly
rehearsed and planned and well-prepared ahead of time. Case in point:
lead guitarist of my church band. He's terrified of improvising. (He
suffers from severe perfectionism.) He works very hard on his solos. But
if something happens and he has to suddenly add an extra measure or two
- he's lost. His only option is to go back and repeat his entire solo
from the beginning. We have a violinist in our band who used to play in
classical orchestras, yet she can't read a note.
My guess for most "intuitive" UI for audio users? The primary instrument
they play! ;-)
--
David
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://clanjones.org/david/
http://dancing-treefrog.deviantart.com/
I'm firmly convinced that the GNOME design
team begins every session
with the
question, "What more functionality can we remove from users today?"
Eventually,
the GNOME UI will consist of a single button in the middle of the screen
reading, "Shutdown computer". ;-)
Perhaps its a matter of what users and platforms they are catering for
... a UI that works well on the smaller, hand held devices with touch
interfaces rather than a mouse and keyboard is very important if that is
what you are using, and lots of devices are like that now. It is
becoming the most familiar interface.
It is easy to confuse 'intuitive' with 'familiar' and believe that what
one has learned is somehow the natural way to do things, but this newer
style of interface is becoming the most common one => familiar =>
'intuitive'. The Gnome version isn't the result of a collection random
decisions along the way, it was described and planned in detail years
ago, when the work building it was starting to get serious. Looking
closely at UI habits derived from hardware with particular limits and
histories, then deciding what is just habit and what really contributes
to a good working environment, is a very important part of making a good
UI. See this 2009 document:
http://www.gnome.org/%7Emccann/shell/design/GNOME_Shell-20091114.pdf
it predicts the Gnome 3 interface fairly accurately, and is clearly the
origin of their current design principles page a couple of years down
the track:
https://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Design/Principles 
1:09 p.m.
New subject: [OT] GNOME UI
I've not tried G3 yet, but Unity got me back to using Ubuntu. I think the
idea that being influenced by tablet UIs means ditching desktop usability
is wrong. I find keyboard driven usage in Unity really well thought out,
and it's probably the most productive desktop UI I've used in ages.
Unlearning old habits isn't always bad!
My 2c. ;)
Best wishes,
Neil
--
Neil C Smith
Artist : Technologist : Adviser
http://neilcsmith.net
On Jul 12, 2012 11:24 AM, "david" <gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
On 07/11/2012 11:21 PM, Simon Wise wrote:
On 12/07/12 03:30, david wrote:
I'm firmly convinced that the GNOME design team begins every session
Just shows me that they've been practicing their bad design philosophy for
many years. I have tried GNOME3 and KDE4. I found both got in the way far
more than they helped. I also have used GNOME2, and didn't like it, either.
While there is value in simplifying things, there is also the danger of
simplifying too much.
"Nothing is 'intuitive' in its fullest sense." Everything you think is
"intuitive" about any computer interface is something you learned about
that interface - and have forgotten you learned. Interfaces that violate
well-established, well-learned user expectations and experiences are not
intuitive. They are rude and make users feel stupid. They make users feel
dictated to by "I know better than you how you should do this task"
"designers" who far too many times are more wrapped up in being
"kewl" and
buffing up their egos than in producing a good, functional UI for others.
(Same phenomenon occurs amongst graphic designers pretending to be web
designers.)
But then, I'm weird. People blog about how tablet/smartphone UIs will take
over the desktop. I think the whole idea of coming up with a common UI that
is perfect for both desktop and tablet/smartphone use is a grand exercise
in misguided stupidity. Fortunately for Linux, Windows 8 seems to be making
that great mistake for us. Now I just hope Linux desktop environments won't
do their usual thing and imitate it ... At least Libre/OpenOffice seem to
have refused to imitate the idiotic MS Office "ribbon" interface.
For audio users, there's the added layer of user expectations and usage
modes that arises from their musical training and experience. If you're a
musician who doesn't read music, you might consider sheet music completely
useless: "Why are the developers wasting their time on that?" Someone
who's
trained and reads music would respond, "How could you possibly do without
it?" and find it difficult (as I do) to work with a bunch of musicians who
don't read music, yet want everything tightly rehearsed and planned and
well-prepared ahead of time. Case in point: lead guitarist of my church
band. He's terrified of improvising. (He suffers from severe
perfectionism.) He works very hard on his solos. But if something happens
and he has to suddenly add an extra measure or two - he's lost. His only
option is to go back and repeat his entire solo from the beginning. We have
a violinist in our band who used to play in classical orchestras, yet she
can't read a note.
My guess for most "intuitive" UI for audio users? The primary instrument
they play! ;-)
--
David
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://clanjones.org/david/
http://dancing-treefrog.**deviantart.com/<http://dancing-treefrog.devian…
______________________________**_________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user@lists.**linuxaudio.org<Linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org>
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/**listinfo/linux-audio-user<http://lists.lin…
with the
question, "What more functionality can we remove from users today?"
Eventually,
the GNOME UI will consist of a single button in the middle of the screen
reading, "Shutdown computer". ;-)
Perhaps its a matter of what users and platforms they are catering for
... a UI that works well on the smaller, hand held devices with touch
interfaces rather than a mouse and keyboard is very important if that is
what you are using, and lots of devices are like that now. It is
becoming the most familiar interface.
It is easy to confuse 'intuitive' with 'familiar' and believe that what
one has learned is somehow the natural way to do things, but this newer
style of interface is becoming the most common one => familiar =>
'intuitive'. The Gnome version isn't the result of a collection random
decisions along the way, it was described and planned in detail years
ago, when the work building it was starting to get serious. Looking
closely at UI habits derived from hardware with particular limits and
histories, then deciding what is just habit and what really contributes
to a good working environment, is a very important part of making a good
UI. See this 2009 document:
http://www.gnome.org/%**7Emccann/shell/design/GNOME_**Shell-20091114.pdf<…
it predicts the Gnome 3 interface fairly accurately, and is clearly the
origin of their current design principles page a couple of years down
the track:
https://live.gnome.org/**GnomeShell/Design/Principles<https://live.gnome…
6:04 a.m.
New subject: Multiple audio configuration requirements
[snip]
good shot :-))
:D OTOH many experienced Linux users do like GNOME3, but none of those
users seems to be an audio user.
Eventually, the GNOME UI will consist of a single
button
in the middle of the screen reading, "Shutdown computer". ;-)
.. which will only appear if you hold down ALT.
13 Jul
13 Jul
8:22 a.m.
New subject: Multiple audio configuration requirements
On 07/11/2012 06:04 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
[snip]
good shot :-))
:D OTOH many experienced Linux users do like GNOME3, but none of those
users seems to be an audio user.
Hmm, I've never met a Linux user (experienced or otherwise) that liked
GNOME3. GNOME2, yes. Or no GUI whatever (a former co-worker who's part
of a white-hat hacker group and computer security wiz). But none of them
are audio users.
My favorite desktop for years was Fluxbox. I still keep it around. I'm
weird. I still think TARGA Tips had the perfect GUI for a graphics
application.
--
David
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://clanjones.org/david/
http://dancing-treefrog.deviantart.com/
Eventually, the GNOME UI will consist of a single
button
in the middle of the screen reading, "Shutdown computer". ;-)
.. which will only appear if you hold down ALT.
4517
days inactive
4520
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
20 comments
12 participants
participants (12)
-
Alexandre Prokoudine -
Bob van der Poel -
Brendan Jones -
david -
Egor Sanin -
Folderol -
hermann -
Neil C Smith -
Ralf Mardorf -
Rob -
Rustom Mody -
Simon Wise