20 May
2003
20 May
'03
5:51 a.m.
i own RME hardware, so that's a plus!
i was thinking about building a new machine that would be dedicated
to being an audio maker. the mac running ydl is a 9600, but it has a
digi AMiii card which i'm sure is useless to anything else but digi.
(got the machine to run os x w/ digi's coreaudio though...)
and yes, i'm a professional musician. i've been tryign to sneak
max/msp and supercollider into the pop world for a while now. and now
supercollider server is being developed, there are already working
linux ports of the synth server side (so i'm told) but not the
language side..
Jonathan Segel wrote:
--
_________________________________________________________________
Jonathan Segel -- MAGNETIC -- PO Box 460816 S.F. CA. 94146-0816
4014 Brookdale Ave. Oakland, CA 94619
jsegel(a)magneticmotorworks.com <-----> magsatellite(a)yahoo.com
http://www.MagneticMotorworks.com
tel (510) 534 7825 cell (510) 484 7415 fax (425) 955 4495
hi, i'm a recent linux user, coming from mac
universe. i started by
putting YDL on one of my old macs last summer, but now i'm gonna get
serious.
so my question is: what parts would you recommend for making a Linux box
to run audio on? i realize this is a big field, but any clues are helpful.
also, i'm probably going to use redhat, given that my ydl exprerience is
based on redhat. any precautionary measures?
thanks all
Redhat is an ecellent choice esp if you get into the planet ccrma catalog.
The question of hardware really depends on what your intentions are. I
assume professional from your email footer.
Multitracks cards are basically RME or maudio delta 1010. There are
others choices but they don't get as much of a working so the drivers
may not be as well designed as they could be.
Will you be building a new PC or using your mac? 
20 May
20 May
12:03 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] newbie q: making a machine
Jonathan Segel wrote:
i own RME hardware, so that's a plus!
i was thinking about building a new machine that would be dedicated to
being an audio maker.
Well depending on your cash supplies you should look into a dual cpu
system as you can never have enough power for plugins and synths in
realtime.
If not then AMD has a better rep in Linux land than Intel.
Plenty of RAM and ATI has better performing drivers than nvidia although
that can also depend on your mobo/vga combination.
Ask here before you buy with a list of specs and you'll get plenty of
feedback.
--
Patrick Shirkey - Boost Hardware Ltd.
Http://www.boosthardware.com
Http://www.djcj.org - The Linux Audio Users guide
========================================
Being on stage with the band in front of crowds shouting, "Get off! No!
We want normal music!", I think that was more like acting than anything
I've ever done.
Goldie, 8 Nov, 2002
The Scotsman
22 May
22 May
9:29 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] newbie q: making a machine
Hallo,
Patrick Shirkey hat gesagt: // Patrick Shirkey wrote:
If not then AMD has a better rep in Linux land than
Intel.
Why that? Actually before buying a laptop with a Celeron this year, I
never bought something from Intel, but when I see the alliance that
AMD is going to with Nvidia, who are IMO the worst thing that has
happened to Linux ("closed source drivers kill opensource software"),
then I'm not sure, if I will buy AMD again. I for sure will not buy an
Nvidia mainboard, if specs for the kernel developers are not
available.
ciao
--
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org__
10:17 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] newbie q: making a machine
Just had to reply to this. Where I work we use NVIDIA graphics cards
exclusively. Why - because they are the only graphics card manufacturer
with an accelerated 3D driver for Linux. Yes, it's closed but we have
no choice since we are working with software that requires accelerated
3D drivers (IVS' Fledermaus). Graphics card manufacturing is a very
competitive industry so I can understand their position on this. OTOH,
I agree completely about the motherboard.
Jan
On Thu, 2003-05-22 at 06:17, Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo,
Patrick Shirkey hat gesagt: // Patrick Shirkey wrote:
If not then AMD has a better rep in Linux land
than Intel.
Why that? Actually before buying a laptop with a Celeron this year, I
never bought something from Intel, but when I see the alliance that
AMD is going to with Nvidia, who are IMO the worst thing that has
happened to Linux ("closed source drivers kill opensource software"),
then I'm not sure, if I will buy AMD again. I for sure will not buy an
Nvidia mainboard, if specs for the kernel developers are not
available.
ciao
--
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org__ 
11:10 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] newbie q: making a machine
Hi
On 22 May 2003 06:39:49 -0500, Jan Depner wrote / a écrit:
Why - because they are the only graphics card
manufacturer
with an accelerated 3D driver for Linux
Oh! My old voodoo II card disagrees ;)
I recently replaced a (low-end, I agree) vanta nvidia card by my old 3dfx card.
Way more stable.
Too bad 3dfx disappeared.
cheers
GuyCLO~
-----------------------------------------------
#219055 http://counter.li.org
-----------------------------------------------
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/guy.clotilde/index.html
-----------------------------------------------
12:20 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] newbie q: making a machine
On 22 May 2003 06:39:49 -0500, Jan Depner wrote / a écrit:
Jan,
The ATI Radeon series (at least 9000 and above) is accelerated and
well supported under Linux. For $69 I got a Radeon 9000 from New Egg
online. I get 100FPS on glxgears unaccelerated, and 2000FPS accelerated.
I think the NVidea devices do outperform this little $69 card, but I
like it because it has no fan, so it makes no noise and won't overheat
when that little VGA cooling fan gets dirty in 6 months. ;-)
Mark
Why - because they are the only graphics card
manufacturer
with an accelerated 3D driver for Linux
2:35 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] newbie q: making a machine
Cool. I'll have to try that one at work. At 20K a pop for the software
we can probably afford the $69.
Jan
On Thu, 2003-05-22 at 09:08, Mark Knecht wrote:
On 22 May 2003 06:39:49 -0500, Jan Depner wrote / a
écrit:
Jan,
The ATI Radeon series (at least 9000 and above) is accelerated and
well supported under Linux. For $69 I got a Radeon 9000 from New Egg
online. I get 100FPS on glxgears unaccelerated, and 2000FPS accelerated.
I think the NVidea devices do outperform this little $69 card, but I
like it because it has no fan, so it makes no noise and won't overheat
when that little VGA cooling fan gets dirty in 6 months. ;-)
Mark
Why - because they are the only graphics card
manufacturer
with an accelerated 3D driver for Linux
2:53 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] newbie q: making a machine
Cool. I'll have to try that one at work. At 20K a pop for the software
we can probably afford the $69.
Jan
Well, my criteria was a bit different. For a recording studio application I
wanted zero noise. All of the NVidea I looked at, as well as most of the
ATI, came with fans on them. My Pro Tools friends pointed out this specific
model, which is NOT made by ATI, it's just an ATI chip. It has worked very
well for my limited use of it so far. (I.e. - I have NO recording studio in
Linux anymore. Bummer...)
Anyway, for a business app, or where you need more performance, I think
NVidea is a better choice right now, but for us low-end flunkies, $69 for 2K
FPS playing tuxracer is attractive. ;-)
Take care,
Mark
3:54 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] newbie q: making a machine
On Thu, 22 May 2003, Daniel James wrote:
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 18:30:57 +0100
From: Daniel James <daniel(a)mondodesigno.com>
Reply-To: linux-audio-user(a)music.columbia.edu
To: linux-audio-user(a)music.columbia.edu
Subject: Re: [linux-audio-user] newbie q: making a machine
Yes - I play UT2003 and NWN in my studio all the time :)
___________________________________
John Bleichert syborg(a)stny.rr.com
-- http://vonbek.dhs.org/latest.jpg
-----------------------------------
For a recording studio application I
wanted zero noise.
I chose a Matrox G550 Dual DVI for this job, since I wanted really
good 2D. Does anyone actually use accelerated 3D in a music studio?
Cheers
Daniel
4:06 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] newbie q: making a machine
Not that I know of. I use it at work. I just mentioned it in passing.
Jan
On Thu, 2003-05-22 at 12:30, Daniel James wrote:
For a
recording studio application I
wanted zero noise.
I chose a Matrox G550 Dual DVI for this job, since I wanted really
good 2D. Does anyone actually use accelerated 3D in a music studio?
Cheers
Daniel 
23 May
23 May
6:44 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] newbie q: making a machine
On Thu, May 22, 2003 at 06:30:57PM +0100, Daniel James wrote:
Not yet, but you have tro wonder how much CPU you can save by pushing some
of the rendering of those fancy UIs onto the card.
Theres also the potnetial of using high end graphics cards to run DSP
sofrtware, there quite good at FFTs aparently, something like 20x faster
than a good P4.
- Steve
For a
recording studio application I
wanted zero noise.
I chose a Matrox G550 Dual DVI for this job, since I wanted really
good 2D. Does anyone actually use accelerated 3D in a music studio? 
11:14 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] newbie q: making a machine
On Fri, May 23, 2003 at 09:32:39AM +0100, Steve Harris wrote:
On Thu, May 22, 2003 at 06:30:57PM +0100, Daniel James
wrote:
Not yet, but you have tro wonder how much CPU you can save by pushing some
of the rendering of those fancy UIs onto the card.
Theres also the potnetial of using high end graphics cards to run DSP
sofrtware, there quite good at FFTs aparently, something like 20x faster
than a good P4.
<question mode="dumb">
But how do you get the result back?
can graphics cards give data back to the cpu, or is it just a 1-way trip
to the monitor?
</dumb>
--
Paul Winkler
home: http://www.slinkp.com
"Muppet Labs, where the future is made - today!"
For a
recording studio application I
wanted zero noise.
I chose a Matrox G550 Dual DVI for this job, since I wanted really
good 2D. Does anyone actually use accelerated 3D in a music studio? 
12:44 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] newbie q: making a machine
On Fri, May 23, 2003 at 05:04:17AM -0400, Paul Winkler wrote:
On Fri, May 23, 2003 at 09:32:39AM +0100, Steve Harris
wrote:
<answer mode="guessing">
Lacking a programmable GFX-card I've only looked briefly at Cg, but I think
it's runtime allows you to transmit/fetch data to/from progs running on the
GPU.
</answer>
;-)
cheers,
Christian Henz
Theres also the potnetial of using high end
graphics cards to run DSP
sofrtware, there quite good at FFTs aparently, something like 20x faster
than a good P4.
<question mode="dumb">
But how do you get the result back?
can graphics cards give data back to the cpu, or is it just a 1-way trip
to the monitor?
</dumb>
22 May
22 May
12:55 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] newbie q: making a machine
On Thu, May 22, 2003 at 04:54:09PM +0400, Guy Clotilde wrote:
Hi
On 22 May 2003 06:39:49 -0500, Jan Depner wrote / a ?crit:
> Why - because they are the only graphics card manufacturer
> with an accelerated 3D driver for Linux
eh?? what about the "SEE ALSO" section in XFree86(1)?
also, on this site:
http://www.ati.com/support/faq/linux.html
note for the Radeon 9700, 9000, and 8500 where it says:
"XFree86 drivers available on the ATI website support hardware 3D
acceleration (RPM format for i386 only at this time).
Open source 3D drivers may also be available or under development from
the DRI Project."
and on dri.sourceforge.net I read that:
"Radeons up to R9200 are supported"
--
Paul Winkler
home: http://www.slinkp.com
"Muppet Labs, where the future is made - today!"
2:41 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] newbie q: making a machine
I'll try the ATI cards but I'm not hopeful. We had been running
high-end SGI's to do our job but I managed to get the office to switch
over to Linux for almost everything (including our ships). NVIDIA just
runs fast. I don't have a problem with paying for software or
hardware. It's not a religious issue with me. Just like I won't have a
problem with paying for Ardour eventually.
Jan
On Thu, 2003-05-22 at 05:46, Paul Winkler wrote:
On Thu, May 22, 2003 at 04:54:09PM +0400, Guy Clotilde
wrote:
Hi
On 22 May 2003 06:39:49 -0500, Jan Depner wrote / a ?crit:
> Why - because they are the only graphics card manufacturer
> with an accelerated 3D driver for Linux
eh?? what about the "SEE ALSO" section in XFree86(1)?
also, on this site:
http://www.ati.com/support/faq/linux.html
note for the Radeon 9700, 9000, and 8500 where it says:
"XFree86 drivers available on the ATI website support hardware 3D
acceleration (RPM format for i386 only at this time).
Open source 3D drivers may also be available or under development from
the DRI Project."
and on dri.sourceforge.net I read that:
"Radeons up to R9200 are supported"
--
Paul Winkler
home: http://www.slinkp.com
"Muppet Labs, where the future is made - today!" 
3:18 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] newbie q: making a machine
Jan Depner wrote:
I'll try the ATI cards but I'm not hopeful. We
had been running
high-end SGI's to do our job but I managed to get the office to switch
over to Linux for almost everything (including our ships). NVIDIA just
runs fast. I don't have a problem with paying for software or
hardware. It's not a religious issue with me. Just like I won't have a
problem with paying for Ardour eventually.
This implies that the problem most free software advocates have with
proprietry/closed source software is the fact that you have to pay for
it. This isn't true, the problem is the lack of freedom. ( I take your
point about paying for ardour - but remember, it will still be 'free' )
regards, Jordan.
2:25 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] newbie q: making a machine
I'm definitely not talking low end - dual 1280x1024 flipping a 5000x5000
(may be larger) cell 3D gridded surface around. Nothing else on the
market that I know of can do that on Linux with any degree of
smoothness. I'd love it if ATI or someone else would develop an
accelerated graphics driver for Linux (open source would be wonderful)
but, as they say, "wish in one hand and defecate in the other and see
which one fills up first".
Jan
On Thu, 2003-05-22 at 07:54, Guy Clotilde wrote:
Hi
On 22 May 2003 06:39:49 -0500, Jan Depner wrote / a écrit:
Why - because they are the only graphics card
manufacturer
with an accelerated 3D driver for Linux
Oh! My old voodoo II card disagrees ;)
I recently replaced a (low-end, I agree) vanta nvidia card by my old 3dfx card.
Way more stable.
Too bad 3dfx disappeared.
cheers
GuyCLO~
-----------------------------------------------
#219055 http://counter.li.org
-----------------------------------------------
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/guy.clotilde/index.html
-----------------------------------------------
23 May
23 May
6:48 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] newbie q: making a machine
On Thu, May 22, 2003 at 10:48:07AM -0500, Jan Depner wrote:
I'm definitely not talking low end - dual
1280x1024 flipping a 5000x5000
(may be larger) cell 3D gridded surface around. Nothing else on the
market that I know of can do that on Linux with any degree of
smoothness. I'd love it if ATI or someone else would develop an
accelerated graphics driver for Linux (open source would be wonderful)
but, as they say, "wish in one hand and defecate in the other and see
which one fills up first".
The current ATI cards are fine (a friend of mine teaches games
programming), but my experience is that NVIDIA drivers are the easiest to
install and the most stable, especially the current release.
This is unfortunate, as I dont like using closed source drivers more than
anyone else does.
- Steve
22 May
22 May
11:20 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] newbie q: making a machine
Hi
On Thursday 22 May 2003 13:54, Guy Clotilde wrote:
Too bad 3dfx disappeared.
I have a pair of Voodoo 3dfx cards sitting around that I keep meaning to play
with, but haven't quite got round to. I'm intrigued by this statement. Does
this mean it would be a waste of time?
The fact that you most probably won't be using 3d graphics at the same time
as making music doesn't mean that you might not want them for other
multi-media purposes (Like winning over my 8 yr old son to Linux by providing
him with some cool games :-)
However I digress well OTT
cheers
tim hall
23 May
23 May
6:44 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] newbie q: making a machine
The fact that you most probably won't be using 3d
graphics at the
same time as making music doesn't mean that you might not want them
for other multi-media purposes
Sure. I'm guess I'm just lucky enough to own more than one machine.
But if you want lots of polygons drawn quickly, you can probably get
a complete Sony PS2 for the price of some of these graphics cards.
Nvidia claims the hardware rendering on the Quadro FX 500 is
programmable in a C-like language:
http://www.nvidia.com/view.asp?IO=IO_20030521_4157
How you get the tools for this language, it doesn't say.
I mentioned to a local computer builder (supplier of mail order
systems) about my reluctance to get an Nvidia graphics card because
of the driver issues. He said they have exactly the same problems
mass-producing Windows machines because Nvidia don't give them any
chipset details either. They have to use the Unified Driver
Architecture one-size-fits-all driver and hope for the best. So it's
not just a Linux problem.
Cheers
Daniel
9:05 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] newbie q: making a machine
On Fri, May 23, 2003 at 09:35:30AM +0100, Daniel James wrote:
It is called Cg and has been around for some time. It works on any Nvidia card
with a programmable pipeline (i.e. GeForce3+)...
http://developer.nvidia.com/view.asp?PAGE=cg_main
The fact that
you most probably won't be using 3d graphics at the
same time as making music doesn't mean that you might not want them
for other multi-media purposes
Sure. I'm guess I'm just lucky enough to own more than one machine.
But if you want lots of polygons drawn quickly, you can probably get
a complete Sony PS2 for the price of some of these graphics cards.
Nvidia claims the hardware rendering on the Quadro FX 500 is
programmable in a C-like language:
How you get the tools for this language, it
doesn't say.
Downloads (also sources) for Linux are available there.
Also, this article, "The Future of 3D Graphics" was recently linked from
Slashdot:
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1091392,00.asp
Quote:
"Any sort of computation of a collection of data where elements interact with
other elements with high locality is extremely efficient on a GPU. In fact,
the GPU can be from 10 to 100 times faster than a Pentium 4 in such situations,
says Kirk. Scientific computations such as linear algebra, Fast Fourier
Transforms, and partial differential equations can also benefit greatly from
GPUs. One research group is looking to break the Linpack benchmark world record
using a cluster of 256 PCs with GeForce FXs! Another scenario that surprised
Kirk was when a development team recently tried to use a GeForce FX CPU to
perform database key sorting. When coded to take advantage of the parallelism
and pipelining in the GPU, parallel key sorts and searches can occur much
faster than using general CPUs, on the order of 4-5x faster than the Pentium 4,
according to Kirk."
cheers,
Christian Henz
8:51 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] newbie q: making a machine
On Fri, May 23, 2003 at 12:16:49AM +0100, Tim Hall wrote:
Hi
On Thursday 22 May 2003 13:54, Guy Clotilde wrote:
Why would it? The cards will still work, won't they? Depending on what Voodoo
generation you have they might not be very useful with today's 3D games, but
that would also be the case if 3dfx were still in business.
cheers,
Christian Henz
Too bad 3dfx disappeared.
I have a pair of Voodoo 3dfx cards sitting around that I keep meaning to play
with, but haven't quite got round to. I'm intrigued by this statement. Does
this mean it would be a waste of time?
9:44 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] newbie q: making a machine
On Fri, 23 May 2003 12:53:23 +0200, Christian Henz wrote / a écrit:
Why would it? The cards will still work, won't they?
Yes, I really enjoy my tuxracer, gltron, bubbles and others with my P5OO - 512 Mo -
banshee (voodoo II).
GuyCLO~
-----------------------------------------------
#219055 http://counter.li.org
-----------------------------------------------
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/guy.clotilde/index.html
-----------------------------------------------
Too bad 3dfx disappeared.
I have a pair of Voodoo 3dfx cards sitting around that I keep meaning to play
with, but haven't quite got round to. I'm intrigued by this statement. Does
this mean it would be a waste of time?
1:06 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] newbie q: making a machine
Thankyou,
that was the clarification I was after :-)
On Friday 23 May 2003 11:53, Christian Henz wrote:
On Fri, May 23, 2003 at 12:16:49AM +0100, Tim Hall
wrote:
Hi
On Thursday 22 May 2003 13:54, Guy Clotilde wrote:
Why would it? The cards will still work, won't they? Depending on what
Voodoo generation you have they might not be very useful with today's 3D
games, but that would also be the case if 3dfx were still in business.
cheers,
Christian Henz Too bad 3dfx disappeared.
I have a pair of Voodoo 3dfx cards sitting around that I keep meaning to
play with, but haven't quite got round to. I'm intrigued by this
statement. Does this mean it would be a waste of time?
22 May
22 May
12:57 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] newbie q: making a machine
Hallo,
Jan Depner hat gesagt: // Jan Depner wrote:
Just had to reply to this.
It's a controversial issue, so I expected replys...
Where I work we use NVIDIA graphics cards exclusively.
Why -
because they are the only graphics card manufacturer with an
accelerated 3D driver for Linux. Yes, it's closed but we have no
choice since we are working with software that requires accelerated
3D drivers (IVS' Fledermaus). Graphics card manufacturing is a very
competitive industry so I can understand their position on this.
OTOH, I agree completely about the motherboard.
I understand your motives. I have a Matrox 450 here, which has open
source 3D acceleration, but not very much of it ;)
In fact, when only graphics cards were concerned I didn't care much. I
sometime raised my voice, but I don't *need* to run the fastest 3d
card (I still have a Dreamcast), so it wasn't that important to me.
The latest Nvidia mainboard activities however really upset me,
because without (open-sourced) mainboard drivers the whole system is
getting useless. So this is fulfilling my prophecies: That Nvidia used
their closed Linux drivers to get a foot in the door. Now even ATI
doesn't release specs for several of their cards. It's going in a bad
direction. Unfourtunatly to a lot of users closed source drivers are
not an issue, as long as it works (fast).
But what we get into here is a situation just like we audio folks had
some years ago when the only pro-soundcard drivers were a commercial
product by 4Front.
ciao
--
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org__
1:25 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] newbie q: making a machine
Hi,
I use one of those nvidia based boards. (asus A7N8X)and I thought I would jump
in the conversation. The only thing closed source on it is the nvidia made
network card. There is also a 3com NIC on it so there is not an issue.
Most of the problems with that board are solved with the upcoming 2.4.21 and
the latest 2.5 kermels.9although I havent tried everithing- Dont need them)
Everything else would work without any drivers from nvidia. And I have to
admit that it is a very nice board for audio. I haven't seen an underun for
quite a while now.
7860
days inactive
7863
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
27 comments
15 participants
participants (15)
-
Antonis Galanopoulos -
Christian Henz -
Daniel James -
Frank Barknecht -
Guy Clotilde -
Jan Depner -
John Bleichert -
Jonathan Segel -
jordan muscott -
Mark Knecht -
Mark Knecht -
Patrick Shirkey -
Paul Winkler -
Steve Harris -
Tim Hall