9 Dec
2006
9 Dec
'06
6:21 a.m.
Hi,
One of my colleges asked me about Linux audio software suitable for children.
I must admit that I never thought of that. Although I have children of my
own. My children play with our small studio and if theres a problem I'm there
anyway. But my college needs software that is more geared towards ease of use
and in his case towards children (not that fluent in English) in the age of
6-7 years. So if you have any suggestion it would be appreciated.
regards,
/bengan
9 Dec
9 Dec
12:47 p.m.
Bengt Gördén wrote:
Hi,
One of my colleges asked me about Linux audio software suitable for children.
I must admit that I never thought of that. Although I have children of my
own. My children play with our small studio and if theres a problem I'm there
anyway. But my college needs software that is more geared towards ease of use
and in his case towards children (not that fluent in English) in the age of
6-7 years. So if you have any suggestion it would be appreciated.
regards,
/bengan
Audacity is pretty to look at but might have too many features. Who
knows with kids these days though.
--
Patrick Shirkey - Boost Hardware Ltd.
Http://www.boosthardware.com
Http://lau.linuxaudio.org - The Linux Audio Users guide
========================================
"Anything your mind can see you can manifest physically, then it will
become reality" - Macka B
1:23 p.m.
Yes Audacity would be a excellent program and if the 'features' end looks
a bit scary you could opt out for one of the earlier versions of that same
program...
Don't worry about the children handling it... their minds are nomt clouded
with so called 'adult logic' and what makes sense for then is so often the
correct way to go :-) Kids are amazing that way...
have a good day and a better tomorrow!
vince
ka1iic(a)prexar.com
Bengt G�rd�n wrote:
Hi,
One of my colleges asked me about Linux audio software suitable for
children. I must admit that I never thought of that. Although I have
children of my own. My children play with our small studio and if theres a
problem I'm there anyway. But my college needs software that is more geared
towards ease of use and in his case towards children (not that fluent in
English) in the age of 6-7 years. So if you have any suggestion it would be
appreciated.
regards,
/bengan
Audacity is pretty to look at but might have too many features. Who knows
with kids these days though.
--
Patrick Shirkey - Boost Hardware Ltd.
Http://www.boosthardware.com
Http://lau.linuxaudio.org - The Linux Audio Users guide
========================================
"Anything your mind can see you can manifest physically, then it will become
reality" - Macka B
1:56 p.m.
On Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 11:21:40AM +0100, Bengt Gördén wrote:
Hi,
One of my colleges asked me about Linux audio software suitable for children.
I must admit that I never thought of that. Although I have children of my
own. My children play with our small studio and if theres a problem I'm there
anyway. But my college needs software that is more geared towards ease of use
and in his case towards children (not that fluent in English) in the age of
6-7 years. So if you have any suggestion it would be appreciated.
git clone git://dev.laptop.org/projects/tamtam
regards,
/bengan
3:42 p.m.
carmen wrote:
On Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 11:21:40AM +0100, Bengt Gördén
wrote:
Tamtam is a good one to look at and the OLPC is a good reference.
Here's the OLPC Wiki link:
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Tamtam
and the repo:
http://dev.laptop.org/git.do?p=projects/tamtam;a=tree
Along the same lines, while not Linux only and not only for audio but
entire multimedia, you should definitely look into eToys. eToys runs in
squeak, a Smalltalk-80 environment. eToys and other educational apps
have been running in squeak and used in schools for many years around
the world.
Here are some links:
Squeakland: http://www.squeakland.org/ - click on "What is Squeak" for
a good overview
eToys on the OLPC laptop: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Etoys
Articles on eToys and education:
http://www.squeakland.org/school/HTML/essays/essays.html
Some info for teachers:
http://dev.laptop.org/git.do?p=projects/tamtam;a=tree
Very good site for French speakers (or have google translate):
http://community.ofset.org/wiki/Squeak_Education
http://community.ofset.org/wiki/Category:Squeak_Education
specifically:
http://community.ofset.org/wiki/Sons_et_Image_-_un_%C3%A9change_France-Arge…
Squeak main site: http://www.squeak.org/
If you would like more information, please don't hesitate to ask.
Squeak is a rich environment and I think many here would find it
engaging and fun. BTW, the latest Linux VM has an ALSA plugin.
--
brad fuller
http://www.Sonaural.com/
+1 (408) 799-6124
Hi,
One of my colleges asked me about Linux audio software suitable for children.
I must admit that I never thought of that. Although I have children of my
own. My children play with our small studio and if theres a problem I'm there
anyway. But my college needs software that is more geared towards ease of use
and in his case towards children (not that fluent in English) in the age of
6-7 years. So if you have any suggestion it would be appreciated.
git clone git://dev.laptop.org/projects/tamtam 
3:57 p.m.
On Sat, 9 Dec 2006, Brad Fuller wrote:
carmen wrote:
I'm very interested in this topic as well, both for children and adults with a
children's level of understanding (me). Tamtam seems wonderful, but as near as
I could tell, it's still under development. Does anyone know if it, or a similar
program, exists now?
I couldn't understand the reference to "git". Is "git" the parent
of tamtam? I
could find no reference to git on the web or rather, I found countless
references to the word "git" that had nothing to do with music :-)
Thanks,
ichael
On Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 11:21:40AM +0100, Bengt
G�rd�n wrote:
Tamtam is a good one to look at and the OLPC is a good reference.
Here's the OLPC Wiki link:
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Tamtam
and the repo:
http://dev.laptop.org/git.do?p=projects/tamtam;a=tree
Hi,
One of my colleges asked me about Linux audio software suitable for
children. I must admit that I never thought of that. Although I have
children of my own. My children play with our small studio and if theres
a problem I'm there anyway. But my college needs software that is more
geared towards ease of use and in his case towards children (not that
fluent in English) in the age of 6-7 years. So if you have any
suggestion it would be appreciated.
git clone git://dev.laptop.org/projects/tamtam
4:03 p.m.
michael(a)michaelshiloh.com wrote:
On Sat, 9 Dec 2006, Brad Fuller wrote:
git is a version control system that, apparently, the OLPC developers
decided to use. I say "apparently" because etoys uses it too - although
there is an yum repo too for etoys. Which, BTW is on the OLPC wiki site
and allows you to quickly check out etoys.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Git_(software)
carmen wrote:
I'm very interested in this topic as well, both for children and adults
with a
children's level of understanding (me). Tamtam seems wonderful, but as
near as
I could tell, it's still under development. Does anyone know if it, or a
similar
program, exists now?
I couldn't understand the reference to "git". Is "git" the parent
of
tamtam? I
could find no reference to git on the web or rather, I found countless
references to the word "git" that had nothing to do with music :-) On Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 11:21:40AM +0100, Bengt
G�rd�n wrote:
Tamtam is a good one to look at and the OLPC is a good reference.
Here's the OLPC Wiki link:
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Tamtam
and the repo:
http://dev.laptop.org/git.do?p=projects/tamtam;a=tree
Hi,
> One of my colleges asked me about Linux audio software suitable
for >
children. I must admit that I never thought of that. Although
I have > children of my own. My children play with our small studio
and if theres > a problem I'm there anyway. But my college needs
software that is more > geared towards ease of use and in his case
towards children (not that > fluent in English) in the age of 6-7
years. So if you have any > suggestion it would be appreciated.
git clone git://dev.laptop.org/projects/tamtam
Thanks,
ichael
--
brad fuller
http://www.Sonaural.com/
+1 (408) 799-6124
4:17 p.m.
On Sat, 9 Dec 2006, Brad Fuller wrote:
I feel so stupid. Of course. Git, as in "get".
Would you believe that I've actually been using Linux for some 15 years?
Thanks!
michael(a)michaelshiloh.com wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sat, 9 Dec 2006, Brad Fuller wrote:
>
...
I
couldn't understand the reference to "git". Is "git" the parent
of
tamtam? I
could find no reference to git on the web or rather, I found countless
references to the word "git" that had nothing to do with music :-)
git is a version control system that, apparently, the OLPC developers decided
to use. I say "apparently" because etoys uses it too - although there is an
yum repo too for etoys. Which, BTW is on the OLPC wiki site and allows you to
quickly check out etoys.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Git_(software)
4:36 p.m.
On Sat, 9 Dec 2006, Dave Phillips wrote:
michael(a)michaelshiloh.com wrote:
Of course I forgive you. So true!
(I still use vi and pine, although I moved up to pine from /bin/mail only a
handful of years ago)
Would you believe that I've actually been
using Linux for some 15 years?
There's your trouble. ;-)
Forgive me, Michael, someone had to say it... 
5:12 p.m.
Em Sáb, 2006-12-09 às 12:15 -0800, michael(a)michaelshiloh.com escreveu:
On Sat, 9 Dec 2006, Brad Fuller wrote:
I feel so stupid. Of course. Git, as in "get".
Would you believe that I've actually been using Linux for some 15 years?
Thanks!
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/TamTam
i never tried but can be something to look at.
michael(a)michaelshiloh.com wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sat, 9 Dec 2006, Brad Fuller wrote:
>
...
I
couldn't understand the reference to "git". Is "git" the parent
of
tamtam? I
could find no reference to git on the web or rather, I found countless
references to the word "git" that had nothing to do with music :-)
git is a version control system that, apparently, the OLPC developers decided
to use. I say "apparently" because etoys uses it too - although there is an
yum repo too for etoys. Which, BTW is on the OLPC wiki site and allows you to
quickly check out etoys.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Git_(software) 
10 Dec
10 Dec
8:48 a.m.
On Sat, Dec 09, 2006 at 12:15:54PM -0800, michael(a)michaelshiloh.com wrote:
On Sat, 9 Dec 2006, Brad Fuller wrote:
I always assumed that Linus named it "Git" after either Larry McVoy or
Tridge (or both!). I get the impression he didn't think particularly
highly of either of them after his workflow was interrupted so suddenly.
Chris.
-------------------
chris(a)mccormick.cx
http://mccormick.cx
michael(a)michaelshiloh.com wrote:
I feel so stupid. Of course. Git, as in "get".
On Sat, 9 Dec 2006, Brad Fuller wrote:
I couldn't understand the reference to "git". Is "git" the parent
of
tamtam? I
git is a version control system that, apparently, the OLPC developers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Git_(software) 
9:32 a.m.
http://www.happypenguin.org/list?sort=category&search=kids
http://www.tux4kids.com/ (old)
http://www.linuxforkids.org/ (old)
These are results from a fairly obvious Google search string.
Best,
dp
9:44 a.m.
Sorry, I forgot this one:
http://www.microsoft.com
I've been told they manufacture an operating system that's suitable for
children. Closed-source, but what kid needs source code, right ? Oh, and
it costs $$$, but hey, it's our kids we're talking about here. Think of
the children, spend the money !
*This has been a public disservice announcement from Studio Dave. Not
applicable in AR, MI, OH, and NY. Some restrictions apply.*
1:48 p.m.
On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 08:53:21 -0500
Dave Phillips <dlphillips(a)woh.rr.com> écrivait:
http://www.microsoft.com
I've been told they manufacture an operating system that's suitable
for children.
Quite funny but ironically Alan Kay, who invented, at Xerox way
back then, the first icons, mouse interfaces and graphic rectangles in
which programs show their output and interacts with the user (eg.
graphical windows) has made that for kids. So you're not that far off
the truth there ;-)
Cheers,
Al
9 Dec
9 Dec
6:14 p.m.
On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 12:03:51 -0800
Brad Fuller <brad(a)sonaural.com> écrivait:
git is a version control system that, apparently, the
OLPC developers
decided to use. I say "apparently" because etoys uses it too -
although there is an yum repo too for etoys.
Is etoys distributed separately from Squeak ? Did they made a
Smalltalk virtual machine with only etoys in it ?
Al
9:29 p.m.
lanas wrote:
On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 12:03:51 -0800
Brad Fuller <brad(a)sonaural.com> écrivait:
No. etoys relies on squeak and it's intertwined at the moment. There has
been some discussions on removing it and making it a separate package.
If you get the OLPC version of etoys, the user will only interface with
etoys, AFAIK.
--
brad fuller
http://www.Sonaural.com/
+1 (408) 799-6124
git is a version control system that, apparently,
the OLPC developers
decided to use. I say "apparently" because etoys uses it too -
although there is an yum repo too for etoys.
Is etoys distributed separately from Squeak ? Did they made a
Smalltalk virtual machine with only etoys in it ?
5:17 p.m.
Em Sáb, 2006-12-09 às 11:55 -0800, michael(a)michaelshiloh.com escreveu:
On Sat, 9 Dec 2006, Brad Fuller wrote:
no git is a versioning system like cvs or svn but different. tamtam is
using git as it versioning management system.
carmen wrote:
I'm very interested in this topic as well, both for children and adults with a
children's level of understanding (me). Tamtam seems wonderful, but as near as
I could tell, it's still under development. Does anyone know if it, or a similar
program, exists now?
I couldn't understand the reference to "git". Is "git" the parent
of tamtam? On Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 11:21:40AM +0100, Bengt
Grdn wrote:
Tamtam is a good one to look at and the OLPC is a good reference.
Here's the OLPC Wiki link:
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Tamtam
and the repo:
http://dev.laptop.org/git.do?p=projects/tamtam;a=tree
Hi,
One of my colleges asked me about Linux audio software suitable for
children. I must admit that I never thought of that. Although I have
children of my own. My children play with our small studio and if theres
a problem I'm there anyway. But my college needs software that is more
geared towards ease of use and in his case towards children (not that
fluent in English) in the age of 6-7 years. So if you have any
suggestion it would be appreciated.
git clone git://dev.laptop.org/projects/tamtam I
could find no reference to git on the web or rather, I found countless
references to the word "git" that had nothing to do with music :-)
Thanks,
ichael
4:13 p.m.
On Sat, 9 Dec 2006, Brad Fuller wrote:
Along the same lines, while not Linux only and not
only for audio but entire
multimedia, you should definitely look into eToys. eToys runs in squeak, a
Smalltalk-80 environment. eToys and other educational apps have been running
in squeak and used in schools for many years around the world.
Here are some links:
Squeakland: http://www.squeakland.org/ - click on "What is Squeak" for a
good overview
Brad, every once in awhile an application comes along that makes all the work
we do seem worthwhile. I just installed squeak on my Ubuntu machine and was
instantly having fun. This will work wonders in my work with kids. Thank!
Michael
4:22 p.m.
michael(a)michaelshiloh.com wrote:
On Sat, 9 Dec 2006, Brad Fuller wrote:
By the way, I'm working on some squeak morphics to manipulate music and
output data via OSC (eg. envelopes, pianorolls, knobs).
It's a pity that the audio (an in general the multimedia) aspects of
squeak have been left behind in recent development.
Ciao,
c.
--
http://www.cesaremarilungo.com
Along the same lines, while not Linux only and
not only for audio but
entire multimedia, you should definitely look into eToys. eToys runs
in squeak, a Smalltalk-80 environment. eToys and other educational
apps have been running in squeak and used in schools for many years
around the world.
Here are some links:
Squeakland: http://www.squeakland.org/ - click on "What is Squeak"
for a good overview
Brad, every once in awhile an application comes along that makes all
the work
we do seem worthwhile. I just installed squeak on my Ubuntu machine
and was
instantly having fun. This will work wonders in my work with kids. Thank!
Michael
4:56 p.m.
Squeakland: http://www.squeakland.org/ - click on
"What is Squeak" for
a good overview
Brad, every once in awhile an application comes along that makes all the
work
we do seem worthwhile. I just installed squeak on my Ubuntu machine and
was
instantly having fun. This will work wonders in my work with kids. Thank!
Michael
5:35 p.m.
michael(a)michaelshiloh.com wrote:
I've joined the squeakland mailing list and hope
to learn more from the
conversations there, and of course experimenting with squeak as well.
I'm particularly interested in working with kids to build mechanisms using
motors and relays, controlling them via computer, and integrating with
images
and/or sounds on the computer. I'm pretty happy with my hardware
interface and
construction methods (foam core, hot glue, motors from solarbotics, objects
removed from discarded electronic equipment, which the kids help take
apart,
etc.) but I've been searching for an easy-to-use, free, Linux supported
multimedia environment that would support this. Squeak might be exactly
what
I've been looking for. Would you have any final thoughts on where I
might look
next in researching how squeak can help me here, or find others doing
this sort
of work with squeak?
Thanks again for all your advice,
Michael
Hmm... several people do work with squeak and robots, gumstix, etc.
Jon Hylands has done some work with robots and squeak.
http://www.huv.com/jon/
Stéphane Ducasse wrote a book about "virtual" robots. Might be helpful
http://smallwiki.unibe.ch/botsinc
I would search through the squeak-dev list for what you are looking for:
squeakbot site:lists.squeakfoundation.org
robots site:lists.squeakfoundation.org
there's a lot there.
--
brad fuller
http://www.Sonaural.com/
+1 (408) 799-6124
5:55 p.m.
On Sat, 9 Dec 2006, Brad Fuller wrote:
michael(a)michaelshiloh.com wrote:
Ah yes. I thought the name was familiar. He and his brother Dave are quite
prolific in the robotic community, and extremely helpful.
I've joined the squeakland mailing list and
hope to learn more from the
conversations there, and of course experimenting with squeak as well.
I'm particularly interested in working with kids to build mechanisms using
motors and relays, controlling them via computer, and integrating with
images
and/or sounds on the computer. I'm pretty happy with my hardware interface
and
construction methods (foam core, hot glue, motors from solarbotics,
objects
removed from discarded electronic equipment, which the kids help take
apart,
etc.) but I've been searching for an easy-to-use, free, Linux supported
multimedia environment that would support this. Squeak might be exactly
what
I've been looking for. Would you have any final thoughts on where I might
look
next in researching how squeak can help me here, or find others doing this
sort
of work with squeak?
Thanks again for all your advice,
Michael
Hmm... several people do work with squeak and robots, gumstix, etc.
Jon Hylands has done some work with robots and squeak.
http://www.huv.com/jon/ St�phane Ducasse wrote a book about
"virtual" robots. Might be helpful
http://smallwiki.unibe.ch/botsinc
I would search through the squeak-dev list for what you are looking for:
squeakbot site:lists.squeakfoundation.org
robots site:lists.squeakfoundation.org
there's a lot there.
Excellent. Thanks. I'll report on progress.
Michael
5:03 p.m.
Cesare Marilungo wrote:
By the way, I'm working on some squeak morphics to
manipulate music and
output data via OSC (eg. envelopes, pianorolls, knobs).
On a different note I recall your squeak-audio message:
Cesare Marilungo wrote:
I just wanted to tell you that I've finally
managed to do what I need.
I can make squeak talk to PureData via OSC and control other MIDI apps
from there. Anyway one of the most interesting uses of squeak (and
music) I can think about is to make GUIs and front-ends for PureData
patches.
How is this going? Are you going to make this available on SqueakSource?
--
brad fuller
http://www.Sonaural.com/
+1 (408) 799-6124
5:56 p.m.
Brad Fuller wrote:
Cesare Marilungo wrote:
It is going slowly. :-) I'm doing a lot of things at the same time,
like most people here, I guess. I'll made a release as soon as I'll have
something interesting to show.
I'm working on independent morphics so you can use them for whatever
else you want. There are already some nice music related morphics in
squeak. But they're too tied to the built-in music functionalities which
basically are just the midi protocol, sample playback and fm synthesis.
For other developers interested in this, there's a very easy to use
foreign function interface to call whatever library you want from within
squeak.
Anyway my idea is to use squeak as some sort of interactive sequencer
(but using mainly OSC instead of MIDI) where a squeak project ( a .pr
file) will be the equivalent of a document.
Ciao,
c.
--
http://www.cesaremarilungo.com
By the way, I'm working on some squeak
morphics to manipulate music
and output data via OSC (eg. envelopes, pianorolls, knobs).
On a different note I recall your squeak-audio message:
Cesare Marilungo wrote:
I just wanted to tell you that I've finally
managed to do what I need.
I can make squeak talk to PureData via OSC and control other MIDI apps
from there. Anyway one of the most interesting uses of squeak (and
music) I can think about is to make GUIs and front-ends for PureData
patches.
How is this going? Are you going to make this available on SqueakSource?
5:24 p.m.
michael(a)michaelshiloh.com wrote:
On Sat, 9 Dec 2006, Brad Fuller wrote:
Great to hear that you like it, Michael. Squeakland also has a mailing list:
http://squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
--
brad fuller
http://www.Sonaural.com/
+1 (408) 799-6124
Along the same lines, while not Linux only and
not only for audio but
entire multimedia, you should definitely look into eToys. eToys runs
in squeak, a Smalltalk-80 environment. eToys and other educational
apps have been running in squeak and used in schools for many years
around the world.
Here are some links:
Squeakland: http://www.squeakland.org/ - click on "What is Squeak"
for a good overview
Brad, every once in awhile an application comes along that makes all the
work
we do seem worthwhile. I just installed squeak on my Ubuntu machine and was
instantly having fun. This will work wonders in my work with kids. Thank!
Michael
7:22 p.m.
On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 11:42:26 -0800
Brad Fuller <brad(a)sonaural.com> écrivait:
[Some Squeak URLs]
Thanks a lot for the links !
Cheers,
Al
2:14 p.m.
On Sat, 9 Dec 2006 11:21:40 +0100
Bengt Gördén <bengan(a)sunet.se> wrote:
children of my own. My children play with our small
studio and if
theres a problem I'm there anyway. But my college needs software that
is more geared towards ease of use and in his case towards children
(not that fluent in English) in the age of 6-7 years. So if you have
any suggestion it would be appreciated.
I haven't tried it yet personally but I've seen the video demos and
the Freewheeling sequencer seems quite intuitive to use. Maybe not to
setup (I don't know) but as far as using it, it looks fun and easy.
Here is what the author of Freewheeling had to say this November:
"I am especially interested in collaborating with people for whom music
is a community-based process. What tools can we create to teach and
encourage improvisation? How can we work with technology appropriately
in a group setting? The tools that would come out of these questions
would be fresh, because they turn the music production paradigm on its
head."
Home page and Videos:
http://freewheeling.sourceforge.net/
Linux Journal (from last year) :
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/8445
As for at home, it's probably like yours. My kids (9 and 11) are using
Ardour and the Zyn synth. They start the system, start jack, etc...
and use Ardour to record. They don't find it difficult to do for what
they're doing. Heck, I don't even know what Ardour can do myself,
apart from what I'm doing, which is to record parts, add effects, mix
and export them. Looks like I'm using 10% of it. I'd sure would like
it if Ardour had a better user interface as far as the effects are
concerned. It's a real bummer to click on a low frequence eq to adjust
it and suddenly hearing it go way high because some mouse movment was
interpreted wrong. Not good for the speakers. Now I'm always bypassing
an effect when making adjustements, and turn it on after it's done.
I'll try to give Freewheeling a try this weekend. Re-reading about it
makes it tempting to try.
Cheers,
Al
10 Dec
10 Dec
4:32 a.m.
On Sat, 2006-12-09 at 11:21 +0100, Bengt Gördén wrote:
Hi,
One of my colleges asked me about Linux audio software suitable for children.
I must admit that I never thought of that. Although I have children of my
own. My children play with our small studio and if theres a problem I'm there
anyway. But my college needs software that is more geared towards ease of use
and in his case towards children (not that fluent in English) in the age of
6-7 years. So if you have any suggestion it would be appreciated.
Perhaps Jokosher would do the trick? Don't know whether this app has any
swedish locale, and perhaps it's a bit too advanced for 6-7 yearolds,
but it is worth a look:
http://www.jokosher.org/
MVH
Mathias
1:57 p.m.
On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 09:32:45 +0100
Mathias Friman <mathias.friman(a)knorca.se> écrivait:
Perhaps Jokosher would do the trick? Don't know
whether this app has
any swedish locale, and perhaps it's a bit too advanced for 6-7
yearolds, but it is worth a look:
http://www.jokosher.org/
Looks quite Nice and Easy (tm).
Is it just me, but we starting to see splits in Linux world ? I mean,
these guys for Jokosher have installation notes for Ubuntu, period.
They did not bother trying other major distros to provide adjustments
and installation notes for, say, Fedora, Mandriva, SuSE.
Will we see in five years from now Ubuntu users that know nothing about
Fedora and whose applications are specifically made for Ubuntu, the
distro itself developing more and more specific aspects of itself that
makes it involved to 'port' applications to other Linux distros ? And
vice-versa. SuSE apps difficult to install on Fedora (after all Red
Hat said no to Microsoft...), so on so forth ?
Well, if that's the case, I'd better be forwarned and immediately
switch to GoboLinux. Now, this is really distinct ! ;-)
Cheers,
Al
6:24 p.m.
On Sun, 2006-12-10 at 13:02 -0500, lanas wrote:
Is it just me, but we starting to see splits in Linux
world ? I mean,
these guys for Jokosher have installation notes for Ubuntu, period.
They did not bother trying other major distros to provide adjustments
and installation notes for, say, Fedora, Mandriva, SuSE.
I'm sure the documentation is available for the distributions the author
of the docs is using. There's really nothing more sinister than that
going on, I'm sure.
And nowadays, most people don't really need installation documentation.
You can just say "open your distributions package manager and select
install [insert name of application]"
Sampo
11 Dec
11 Dec
8:23 p.m.
New subject: Linux future split (was:Re: [linux-audio-user] Software suitable for children)
On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 00:09:37 +0200
Sampo Savolainen <v2(a)iki.fi> écrivait:
On Sun, 2006-12-10 at 13:02 -0500, lanas wrote:
It's called:
"Installing on something other than Ubuntu"
And it says to:
"Get the following packages from your distribution:
* Python 2.4
* GStreamer from CVS
* Python GStreamer from CVS
* Gnonlin (plugin for Gstreamer)
* PyGTK 2.8
* Python Glade2
* Python Cairo
* Python D-Bus
* Python XMLPlus
* librsvg2-common (SVG rendering library for GTK)
* Python Setuptools"
So I call that is Ubuntu-only. The guys did not bother to try to
install it on other popular distros.
So, to repeat:
Will we see in five years from now Ubuntu users that know nothing about
Fedora and whose applications are specifically made for Ubuntu, the
distro itself developing more and more specific aspects of itself that
makes it involved to 'port' applications to other Linux distros ?
Is it just me, but we starting to see splits in
Linux world ? I
mean, these guys for Jokosher have installation notes for Ubuntu,
period. They did not bother trying other major distros to provide
adjustments and installation notes for, say, Fedora, Mandriva, SuSE.
I'm sure the documentation is available for the distributions the
author of the docs is using. And nowadays, most people don't really need
installation
documentation.
That's beside the point. If I can install Jokosher in about 120
seconds max (see below) that does not mean that the split does not
exists. I can install Jokosher in such a short time because somebody
else than the developers took care of packaging it. The developers
themselves did not.
And this was the subject of the split I was talking about.
For instance, where is Jokosher for CCRMA ?
Or is CCRMA not a 'sane' distro ?
You can just say "open your distributions
package
manager and select install [insert name of application]"
The following was done in a bit less than 120 seconds using Yast
pointing at Packman:
Téléchargement de gstreamer010-0.10.11-0.pm.1.x86_64 (810.09 Ko)
gstreamer010-0.10.11 (2.64 Mo) -- Streaming-Media Framework Runtime
Téléchargement de libcaca-0.9_0.99.beta11-0.pm.0.x86_64 (302.95 Ko)
libcaca-0.9_0.99.beta11 (1.13 Mo) -- Text mode graphics library
Téléchargement de liboil-0.3.10-0.pm.1.x86_64 (150.91 Ko)
liboil-0.3.10 (648.56 Ko) -- Library of Optimized Inner Loops
Téléchargement de python-alsaaudio-0.2-0.pm.1.x86_64 (43.18 Ko)
python-alsaaudio-0.2 (170.26 Ko) -- Wrappers for accessing the ALSA api
from Python Téléchargement de python-setuptools-0.6c3-0.pm.1.x86_64
(227.99 Ko) python-setuptools-0.6c3 (941.39 Ko) -- Python setuptools
gstreamer010-plugins-base-0.10.11-0.pm.1.x86_64 (531.88 Ko)
Téléchargement de gnonlin-0.10.6-0.pm.1.x86_64 (65.30 Ko)
gnonlin-0.10.6 (219.86 Ko) -- Gnonlin is a library for writing
non-linear editing apps Téléchargement de
gstreamer010-plugins-base-oil-0.10.11-0.pm.1.x86_64 (48.33 Ko)
gstreamer010-plugins-base-oil-0.10.11 (137.93 Ko) -- GStreamer
Streaming-Media Framework Plug-Ins Téléchargement de
gstreamer010-plugins-good-0.10.4.1-0.pm.1.x86_64 (501.27 Ko)
gstreamer010-plugins-good-0.10.4.1 (1.57 Mo) -- GStreamer
Streaming-Media Framework Plug-Ins Téléchargement de
python-gstreamer010-0.10.6-0.pm.1.x86_64 (222.89 Ko)
python-gstreamer010-0.10.6 (834.61 Ko) -- Python Bindings for
GStreamer6 Téléchargement de jokosher-0.2-0.pm.1.x86_64 (426.88 Ko)
And what do we have ? The following:
jokosher.sh
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/usr/lib64/jokosher/Jokosher/JokosherApp.py", line 15, in ?
import AddInstrumentDialog, TimeView, CompactMixView
File "/usr/lib64/jokosher/Jokosher/CompactMixView.py", line 13, in ?
import RecordingView
File "/usr/lib64/jokosher/Jokosher/RecordingView.py", line 13, in ?
import InstrumentViewer
File "/usr/lib64/jokosher/Jokosher/InstrumentViewer.py", line 14, in ?
from EventLaneViewer import *
File "/usr/lib64/jokosher/Jokosher/EventLaneViewer.py", line 15, in ?
from EventViewer import *
File "/usr/lib64/jokosher/Jokosher/EventViewer.py", line 15, in ?
import cairo
ImportError: No module named cairo
Big deal.
Guess I'll have to install a 'sane' distro !
Cheers,
Al
8:57 p.m.
New subject: Linux future split (was:Re: [linux-audio-user] Software suitable for children)
On Mon, 2006-12-11 at 19:28 -0500, lanas wrote:
That's beside the point. If I can install
Jokosher in about 120
seconds max (see below) that does not mean that the split does not
exists. I can install Jokosher in such a short time because somebody
else than the developers took care of packaging it. The developers
themselves did not.
You can't expect programmers to write detailed documentation for every
Foobar Linux out there. The only thing that can be reasonably expected
is generic installation instructions - "install these versions of these
libraries then run 'make install'". Making things work seamlessly with
Foobar Linux is the job of the packagers and distribution maintainers of
Foobar Linux, any distribution-specific info from the actual programmers
is just a bonus.
For instance, where is Jokosher for CCRMA ?
I don't know if there is one, but if there isn't, wouldn't it be up to
the CCRMA people to package it and not the Jokosher authors?
--
Lars Luthman - please encrypt any email sent to me if possible
PGP key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x04C77E2E
Fingerprint: FCA7 C790 19B9 322D EB7A E1B3 4371 4650 04C7 7E2E
15 Dec
15 Dec
8:42 a.m.
New subject: Linux future split (was:Re: [linux-audio-user] Software suitable for children)
On Tue, 12 Dec 2006 01:54:01 +0100
Lars Luthman <lars.luthman(a)gmail.com> écrivait:
On Mon, 2006-12-11 at 19:28 -0500, lanas wrote:
> That's beside the point. If I can install Jokosher in about 120
> seconds max (see below) that does not mean that the split does not
> exists. I can install Jokosher in such a short time because
> somebody else than the developers took care of packaging it. The
> developers themselves did not.
You can't expect programmers to write detailed
documentation for every
Foobar Linux out there.
Foobar Linux ? That's a new one. Is it like GoboLinux ?
I would expect for one, the GoboLinux team to package the apps. Nobody
does it like them. They have a very interesting system but it is
surely alien to many if not most 'Common Joe' app developer.
Hey, is 'Coomon Joe' the author of 'Foobar Linux' ?
GoboLinux aside, we are left with about 5 major distros. Debian,
Ubuntu, Mandriva, Fedora, SuSE_HastaLaVista (or what they'll call it).
That surely does not look like an unmanageable number of distros.
Unless you use Mono, for lack of better development tools.
The only thing that can be reasonably expected
is generic installation instructions - "install these versions of
these libraries then run 'make install'". Making things work
seamlessly with Foobar Linux is the job of the packagers and
distribution maintainers of Foobar Linux, any distribution-specific
info from the actual programmers is just a bonus.
If tire makers would think the same, they'd put out tire sizes that no
car maker would like to install.
> For instance, where is Jokosher for CCRMA ?
I don't know if there is one, but if there
isn't, wouldn't it be up to
the CCRMA people to package it and not the Jokosher authors?
Or the app maker making it very easy for CCRMA users to adopt and use ?
CCRMA is not an obscure distro I think. And Jokosher is an audio app.
Al
6555
days inactive
6561
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
33 comments
14 participants
participants (14)
-
Bengt Gördén -
Brad Fuller -
carmen -
Cesare Marilungo -
Chris McCormick -
Dave Phillips -
glauber alex dias prado -
lanas -
Lars Luthman -
Mathias Friman -
michael＠michaelshiloh.com -
Patrick Shirkey -
Sampo Savolainen -
Vince Werber