this is true.... jack *is* the most important... OS X Jaguar users are raving about having audio connectivity across applications for the first time... but i think jack appeared around a year earlier or even more?.... its something we really have going for us in advocating GNU/Linux as an audio/multimedia platform... m~ -- iriXx www.iriXx.org copyleft: creativity, technology and freedom? info(a)copyleftmedia.org.uk www.copyleftmedia.org.uk _ ( ) ascii ribbon against html email X / \ cat /dev/sda1 > /dev/dsp *** stopping make sense ***

Daniel James wrote: hmm, true, OS X does at least leave you with both options.... m~ -- iriXx www.iriXx.org copyleft: creativity, technology and freedom? info(a)copyleftmedia.org.uk www.copyleftmedia.org.uk _ ( ) ascii ribbon against html email X / \ cat /dev/sda1 > /dev/dsp *** stopping make sense ***

On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, iriXx wrote: No. Jack was heavily influenced by Apple's CoreAudio API. I'm not sure that Jack has even been out for a year. Maybe almost. Taybin -- http://www.piratesvsninjas.com

I would also like to see Ardour in Mandrake, but I understand that it's author does not support third party binary versions, which is fair enough. No, I think kaconnect requires KDE while aconnectgui is based on fltk. Kaconnect is a bit easier to use but I don't run KDE on my studio computer. Me too. Cheers Daniel

On Tue, 2003-01-28 at 23:48, Mark Knecht wrote: Hmm, not sure what you mean here. If you want a tutorial on using cvs and building apps from source, you're not going to get that from Mandrake, as we are a binary-based distro. (although we provide urpmi and srpms so you can recompile any rpm for your architecture with a single command). If you want info on building rpms, we have a great howto. http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/howtos/mdk-rpm/ If you simply want to know what commands we use to build our apps, check the "spec" files in the Mandrake CVS. These contain the instruction set that rpm uses to build each binary (configure, make, make install type stuff). http://cvs.mandrakesoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/SPECS/ http://cvs.mandrakesoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/contrib-SPECS/ Hope this helps, Let me know if I misunderstood you. Austin -- Austin Acton Hon.B.Sc. Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto MandrakeClub Volunteer (www.mandrakeclub.com) homepage: www.groundstate.ca

On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 10:07, Mark Knecht wrote: Okay, I understand you a bit better now. Hopefully I can answer your question and explain rpms a bit in the process. Mandrake is a binary-based distro that releases every six months. So assuming you upgrade every six months, you should have fairly new software with no need to compile anything. We spend a LOT of time (employees and volunteers) keeping things up-to-date. If you can't wait six months for a new version of package xxx, there are a few options: 1. Rebuild from source. This is quite easy for any experienced unix person. Simply remove the rpm in question: # urpme ecasound Then check the Mandrake CVS spec file to see how to properly compile it, and do so: $ tar xfz ecasound-xxx.tar.gz $ cd ecasound-xxx $ ./configure --prefix=usr $ make Then install it with checkinstall so you can later remove it with one command: # checkinstall 2. Rebuild from cooker. Our development version ("cooker") is always up-to-date (almost), but contains different libraries and development files from the current release, so you can't install cooker RPMs on an 9.0 machine (contrary to what people may tell you). You can very easily rebuild the cooker version for your specific machine though. Simply download the source rpm (ecasound-xxx.src.rpm) from any cooker mirror (there are many) and rebuild it: # rpm --rebuild ecasound-xxx.src.rpm Your new rpm will end up in /usr/src/RPM/RPMS/i586. Just install it: # urpmi /usr/src/RPM/RPMS/i586/*ecasound*.i586.rpm 3. Run cooker. For the daring and brave, you can actually run cooker all the time. It's usually 90-95% stable. The main drawback is you need lotsa bandwidth to keep up with daily updates. Of course #2 is the recommended method. All major linux distros use the same convention: binary packges (rpm/deb) go in /usr built from source goes into /usr/local As far as running the program goes, it shouldn't matter where you put it. PlanetCCRMA is a great idea and a great tool, but its rpms are quite generic, so you may have problems if they are dynamically linked to old libraries (glibc most notably). That's why it's best to use rpms designed specifically for your distro AND your version of that distro. Mandrake uses urpmi which is very similar to the rpm command, but 'should' resolve all dependencies automatically. Most of the time this is the case. For example, # urpmi audacity would install audacity and wxGTK2.4 for you. We've had urpmi for years. 'Dependency hell' is not a problem. Even when you are rebuilding an application, urpmi should tell you what development libraries you need to install. Hope that helps a bit. Thanks for your input. Austin -- Austin Acton Hon.B.Sc. Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto MandrakeClub Volunteer (www.mandrakeclub.com) homepage: www.groundstate.ca

On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 14:03, Fernando Pablo Lopez-Lezcano wrote: You are correct that spec files are rarely a problem, as they are (mostly) universal. I wasn't saying that dynamic linking is bad. However, the fact that you need to post three versions of each rpm simply restates the fact that no binary package can be universal. There are different versions of rpm itself, files are placed in different locations from distro to distro and version to version, different versions of required libraries (not always backward compatible), etc. Also as far as Mandrake goes, urpmi can only resolve dependencies if you use rpms built for your version number. For example, if you do: # urpmi audacity on Mandrake 9.0, it will install wxGTK2.3 automatically. But if you tried to install the cooker rpm on 9.0, it would look for wxGTK2.4 which it obviously would not find. PlanetCCRMA is a really great tool, and most of its rpms should run on most distros. However, Mandrake users shouldn't need them, since we (volunteers) spend countless hours providing current rpms that work flawlessly (almost) because they are specifically designed for the current version of Mandrake, and include goodies like extra documentation, menu entries, MIME types, and easy rebuilding. Austin -- Austin Acton Hon.B.Sc. Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto MandrakeClub Volunteer (www.mandrakeclub.com) homepage: www.groundstate.ca

Hey, I'm totally grateful to Fernando, he's saved me many, many hours of configuration and kernel recompiling, Planet CCRMA works great with Redhat 8.0, and using synaptic and the apt-get port its super easily! http://www.brianredfern.org On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Mark Knecht wrote:

For me, I used to use Suse until I came across CCRMA, they just have their system so well put together, their server uptime and package reliability is just great. http://www.brianredfern.org On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Mark Knecht wrote:

On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 16:06, Austin Acton wrote: We are in VIOLENT AGREEMENT! Planet RPMs and Mandrake's equivalent are both fine. They support their specific distributions very well. No disagreement there. I was originally responding to a statement you made: "PlanetCCRMA is a great idea and a great tool, but its rpms are quite generic, so you may have problems if they are dynamically linked to old libraries (glibc most notably). That's why it's best to use rpms designed specifically for your distro AND your version of that distro." I think that those of us using the Planet did not, and still do not, understand this statement, especially the first line. In the context of this discussion ("Why not Mandrake?" and because I am a user who knows nothing, I wanted to understand if Mandrake has a better technology than Redhat. If rpmi/urmpi (hope I have that right) solves problems that rpm -Uvh doesn't, then I'm interested in that. In your comment "if they are dynamically linked to old libraries (glibc most notably)." you seem to be stating that some of us using the Planet flow ARE using "old libraries". I am not aware of that. I think Fernando's system does an awful lot, sans a human error, to make sure this isn't true. I do not KNOW this, but that is my impression. And again, on the second line we are all in agreement.

On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 17:07, Austin Acton wrote: OK, but the Planet is _specifically_ for Redhat users. Says so on the first page. I don't get why in the world would a Suse person go there? Anyway, that's solved. So I'm interested. Is there a good page to look at on Urpmi's? The Planet has turned my on to apt, and through that Synaptic which is very easy to use and shows you everything that's available. (And the dependencies. Me too! And I was sure it wasn't disrespect anyway. Just confusion.

On Thu, 2003-01-30 at 03:49, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: Well, you can upgrade your entire system with # urpmi --update --auto-select And urpmi deals with CDs and repositories in exactly the same way, so they cannot work differently. Austin -- Austin Acton Hon.B.Sc. Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto MandrakeClub Volunteer (www.mandrakeclub.com) homepage: www.groundstate.ca

On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 18:43, Fernando Pablo Lopez-Lezcano wrote: urpmi is just a fancy wrapper for rpm. All you need is a directory full of rpms (the Planet repository would do fine). You generate a fancy header file with the "genhdlist" command, and it's ready to go. Any protocol will work. A user adds your repository by executing # urpmi.addmedia <name> <protocol>://<site> with hdlist.cz and from there on it works pretty much like apt. If many sources are listed (official mandrake ftp, updates ftp, CDs, extra sites like plf.zarb.org), it choses the newest version of the file you request, and will get the required libraries from any other source, whichever is newest. Of course. The biggest difference I can see is we (mandrake) use a different menu system (debian's actually). Austin -- Austin Acton Hon.B.Sc. Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto MandrakeClub Volunteer (www.mandrakeclub.com) homepage: www.groundstate.ca

Synaptic is supported on RH 8.0 via the Planet. It is a very nice tool. This link doesn't work right. It calls up some page where I cannot see everything. Too bad. Thanks!

I think I have read tutorials on building from source on one of the Mandrake sites - and in the field of audio, it seems necessary to use CVS to get things working sometimes, even for the kind of user who wouldn't normally need to touch it. I can think of situations when making your own RPMs from CVS would be useful, other than for sharing with other users via the internet - for instance, build CVS on one machine, deploy RPM quickly on many. Some Mandrake-style documentation on the differences between building from CVS and building from tarballs might therefore be useful. Cheers Daniel

On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 06:00, iriXx wrote: Yeah, you're not the only one. And since we're into another beta-testing cycle, we REALLY need good bug reports about 9.0 and 9.1beta. All bug reports should go through our Bugzilla system at http://qa.mandrakesoft.com. Thanks, Austin -- Austin Acton Hon.B.Sc. Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto MandrakeClub Volunteer (www.mandrakeclub.com) homepage: www.groundstate.ca

On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 06:19, Daniel James wrote: Do you know of any I can look into? Austin -- Austin Acton Hon.B.Sc. Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto MandrakeClub Volunteer (www.mandrakeclub.com) homepage: www.groundstate.ca

I'm working on a gpl sound font kit, it just takes a long time to get all the samples together. http://www.brianredfern.org On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Daniel James wrote:

I'm using iiwusynth with my powerbook soundcard / alsa cvs + midisport 1x1 and its great! I don't even need to run x :) I've been playing with the jeux church organ sound font and the rhodes sound font previously discussed on this list. cheers - matthew

Luke Yelavich wrote: Up until recently I've been using sb-live and before that awe cards... Now I'm in the process of switching to using only iiwusynth, both muse and jack:ed version. The fundamental reason for switching to a software based synth is CONTROL! Using iiwusynth I can route the audio data back into the application and actually have control of what happens to the audio data, what I hear is what will end up in the downmix. It's so much easier to add fx to it also. I find iiwusynth to work very good for such a young project. Not all soundfonts work but mostly they sound as they should (or as I think they should). A long long time ago I did try timidity...I can't put my finger on why... but I never liked it much. It's probably a viable option also... /Robert

On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 19:52, tim wrote: Really? Could you be more specific about what you are looking for? Most anyone using cooker (the semi-unstable version) hangs out on the cooker mailing list (http://www.mandrakelinux.com/en/flists.php3). This is a great place to report bugs, make suggestions, make friends, and get hundreds of emails a day, but not a good place to ask simple support questions. The rest hang out on www.mandrakeclub.com (the forums are free to access, some other stuff like proprietary rpms requires a membership). www.mandrakeforum.com used to be popular, but I think we are scrapping it soon cuz mandrakeclub is so much better. Assuming you are using urpmi, this shouldn't happen. $ man urpmi is a good start. If it's a non-Mandrake RPM, you may or may not get automatic dependency resolution though. What documentation are you looking for? $ rpm -qp --requires <name.rpm> will list the required libraries of an rpm file. $ rpm -qd <name> will list all the documentation files' locations of an installed package. I will try to keep them up to date. We do pretty well at that actually. Cooker is usually running the same versions as gentoo, and you can usually rebuild cooker apps for your box if you want to. I do lotsa multitrack recording so it's in my best interest to keep things current. Usually I use audacity, but tkeca looks cool so maybe I'll try it soon. Austin -- Austin Acton Hon.B.Sc. Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto MandrakeClub Volunteer (www.mandrakeclub.com) homepage: www.groundstate.ca