hi all thanks for the advice patrick actually im going to upgrade to cvs will give it a go shortly and let you know the outcome have to go the back route around doing it as KDE depends on the alsa rpms.. i did a lovely job of killing X last night by messing with those... so i'm going to simply tar up the modules and install cvs... i presume a few spare extra alsa libs around the place shouldnt do any harm... i hope! thanx m~ -- iriXx www.iriXx.org copyleft: creativity, technology and freedom? info(a)copyleftmedia.org.uk www.copyleftmedia.org.uk _ ( ) ascii ribbon against html email X / \ cat /dev/sda1 > /dev/dsp *** stopping make sense ***