23 Feb
2010
23 Feb
'10
11:19 p.m.
I've thought about a "music" in which notes might have "fractal
fuzziness" to them - for example, what looks like a quarter note is
really 8 simultaneous (or non-simultaneous) 32nd notes, each having a
frequency that is some fractally-derived distance from the base quarter
note's frequency, and perhaps their timing/duration could also be
fractally derived ... I don't suppose someone knows of such a thing
already being done?
--
David
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
24 Feb
24 Feb
5:51 a.m.
On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:19:34 -1000
david <gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
I've thought about a "music" in which
notes might have "fractal
fuzziness" to them - for example, what looks like a quarter note is
really 8 simultaneous (or non-simultaneous) 32nd notes, each having a
frequency that is some fractally-derived distance from the base quarter
note's frequency, and perhaps their timing/duration could also be
fractally derived ... I don't suppose someone knows of such a thing
already being done?
Sounds an interesting idea, but I would think it'd be a nightmare to
produce!
--
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.
7:26 a.m.
Hi weirdo's
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Folderol <folderol(a)ukfsn.org> wrote:
On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:19:34 -1000
david <gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
Reminds me of these 2 open-source projects:
http://rationale.sourceforge.net and http://www.rubato.org
Here's a description about Rubato someone sent me a while ago: (:-))
Quote:
"The Rubato project is actually a Mathematical Category Theory
computational/logic framework/language with a music interface. It is pretty
hairy, even after having read Mazzola's book and his student's
dissertations.
It could certainly stand some examples.
Apparently, the Rubato project started at CERN (Yeah, the Swiss giant
physics
thing!) and the idea underlying it is that music is a language. Language,
not
in the imprecise way ordinary humans create and understand music, but a
language
capable of precise expression of multidimensional physical and mathematical
concepts. A natural question would be WHO (or What?) would use such a
language?
Of course, then one wonders how the Europeans could be convinced to fund
and
build the facilities at CERN as it represents a big fraction of the GDP and
available energy resources? It starts to bring to mind movies like 'Close
Encounters of the Third Kind' and 'Contact'.
I have not been in direct contact with the Rubato group as first I wanted to
determine if this stuff was real or bullshit. Odds are that it is real, or
at
least some of it is.
The whole Mathematical Category area is really strange. First the ages of
many
of the key authors - you'll have to discover that for yourself because it is
the
only way you will believe it. Then their is the apparent aversion to
concrete
examples which lends an air of mystery about it all. And then the places
these
guys just happen to show up and when.
It is funny where an interest in music and audio synthesis can lead!"
I didn't really investigate this kind of software any further, but if you
do, please share the insights/results.
I'd love to know more about it!
Cheers,
Peter
I've thought about a "music" in
which notes might have "fractal
fuzziness" to them - for example, what looks like a quarter note is
really 8 simultaneous (or non-simultaneous) 32nd notes, each having a
frequency that is some fractally-derived distance from the base quarter
note's frequency, and perhaps their timing/duration could also be
fractally derived ... I don't suppose someone knows of such a thing
already being done?
Sounds an interesting idea, but I would think it'd be a nightmare to
produce!
7:22 p.m.
On 02/24/2010 10:25 PM, Peter Geirnaert wrote:
Hi weirdo's
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Folderol <folderol(a)ukfsn.org
<mailto:folderol@ukfsn.org>> wrote:
On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:19:34 -1000
david <gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com <mailto:gnome@hawaii.rr.com>> wrote:
This all makes sense when looked at with String Theory goggles on.
IIUC, the main point in String theory is that everything is a composed
of strings vibrating at different frequencies.
Hence it follows that music created according to the laws of String
Theory could be used to describe the universe at it's deepest levels.
Fractal music defintely has a place in that approach. I would love to
have it running alongside Electricsheep. That would be a very cool
immersive experience.
For those who haven't spent any time looking at the amazing
electricsheep it is well worth the time. It's a very eye opening
experience. It would also make a good place to start from with fractal
music generation.
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
I've thought about a "music" in
which notes might have "fractal
fuzziness" to them - for example, what looks like a quarter note is
really 8 simultaneous (or non-simultaneous) 32nd notes, each
having a
frequency that is some fractally-derived distance
from the base
quarter
note's frequency, and perhaps their
timing/duration could also be
fractally derived ... I don't suppose someone knows of such a thing
already being done?
Sounds an interesting idea, but I would think it'd be a nightmare to
produce!
Reminds me of these 2 open-source projects:
http://rationale.sourceforge.net and http://www.rubato.org
Here's a description about Rubato someone sent me a while ago: (:-))
Quote:
"The Rubato project is actually a Mathematical Category Theory
computational/logic framework/language with a music interface. It is
pretty
hairy, even after having read Mazzola's book and his student's
dissertations.
It could certainly stand some examples.
Apparently, the Rubato project started at CERN (Yeah, the Swiss giant
physics
thing!) and the idea underlying it is that music is a language.
Language, not
in the imprecise way ordinary humans create and understand music, but
a language
capable of precise expression of multidimensional physical and
mathematical
concepts. A natural question would be WHO (or What?) would use such a
language?
Of course, then one wonders how the Europeans could be convinced to
fund and
build the facilities at CERN as it represents a big fraction of the
GDP and
available energy resources? It starts to bring to mind movies like 'Close
Encounters of the Third Kind' and 'Contact'.
I have not been in direct contact with the Rubato group as first I
wanted to
determine if this stuff was real or bullshit. Odds are that it is
real, or at
least some of it is.
The whole Mathematical Category area is really strange. First the
ages of many
of the key authors - you'll have to discover that for yourself because
it is the
only way you will believe it. Then their is the apparent aversion to
concrete
examples which lends an air of mystery about it all. And then the
places these
guys just happen to show up and when.
It is funny where an interest in music and audio synthesis can lead!"
I didn't really investigate this kind of software any further, but if
you do, please share the insights/results.
I'd love to know more about it!
3 Mar
3 Mar
5:05 a.m.
Folderol wrote:
On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:19:34 -1000
david <gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
Thank you all for the fascinating responses. I was visualizing it more
on a score, with a "zoom" to see the sub-components of the quarter note.
I imagine that "quarter" note playing would be a bit richer and change
dynamically as its component 32nd notes played ... will have to look
into this sometime!
--
David
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
I've thought about a "music" in
which notes might have "fractal
fuzziness" to them - for example, what looks like a quarter note is
really 8 simultaneous (or non-simultaneous) 32nd notes, each having a
frequency that is some fractally-derived distance from the base quarter
note's frequency, and perhaps their timing/duration could also be
fractally derived ... I don't suppose someone knows of such a thing
already being done?
Sounds an interesting idea, but I would think it'd be a nightmare to
produce! 
24 Feb
24 Feb
6:03 a.m.
On Wed, February 24, 2010 03:19, david wrote:
I've thought about a "music" in which
notes might have "fractal
fuzziness" to them - for example, what looks like a quarter note is
really 8 simultaneous (or non-simultaneous) 32nd notes, each having a
frequency that is some fractally-derived distance from the base quarter
note's frequency, and perhaps their timing/duration could also be
fractally derived ... I don't suppose someone knows of such a thing
already being done?
I know of a program called "Wav Composer Not Toilet" (which won't compile
these days) which generates audio files, and it has an "orbit" module
which uses the threeply/hopalong/quadrup fractals bounded within -1.0 and
1.0.
One of the examples built by it, the tones of the sounds are fractally
modulated, and actually the tones themselves and their timings are
fractally modulated, but not quite in the way you suggest.
the example is here, and i've been told it's a bit scary:
http://jwm-art.net/art/audio/price_crash.mp3
i'm guessing PD/Chuck/Csound/alsamodular/spiralsound/etc could do
something along the same lines in realtime.
james.
25 Feb
25 Feb
2:32 p.m.
david wrote:
I've thought about a "music" in which
notes might have "fractal
fuzziness" to them - for example, what looks like a quarter note is
really 8 simultaneous (or non-simultaneous) 32nd notes, each having a
frequency that is some fractally-derived distance from the base quarter
note's frequency, and perhaps their timing/duration could also be
fractally derived ... I don't suppose someone knows of such a thing
already being done?
Talking of music which would have to be generated programatically, I
remember reading once (in Godel Escher Bach I think) of some music which
had been generated as follows:
- you start playing the first note in a scale, together with notes an
octave above and below at half the volume.
- then you go up through the scale, slowly reducing the volume of each
note as it gets further from the root note, and increasing it as it gets
closer.
- new notes are brought in very quietly below the bottom to replace the
ones in the lower octave which are moving up towards the root.
- when you get back to the first note, you can loop the track.
Hope this makes sense? Apparently it sounds like a never ending rising
scale.
If anyone knows of a recording of this, I would be interested to hear
it; if not I might have a go at making one.
andy :)
2:57 p.m.
On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 06:30:02PM +0000, andy baxter wrote:
Hope this makes sense? Apparently it sounds like a
never ending rising
scale.
It does. It works best if you use a dense set of notes moving
over a range of several octaves. With just one or a few the
fade-ins/outs at the start/end are quite apparent.
If anyone knows of a recording of this, I would be
interested to hear
it; if not I might have a go at making one.
I once made such a thing, it's fairly easy using Csound
or similar. You just need a note that moves up (or down)
at a constant speed, with a fade-in at the start and a
fade-out at the end, then make it loop, then start a large
number of these at different positions in the cycle.
Ciao,
--
FA
O tu, che porte, correndo si ?
E guerra e morte !
3:43 p.m.
Those are called Shepard tones: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shepard_tone
Trivia: one was used in the "endless stairway" part of the Mario 64 video
game, to good effect :)
On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 12:53 PM, <fons(a)kokkinizita.net> wrote:
On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 06:30:02PM +0000, andy baxter
wrote:
Hope this makes sense? Apparently it sounds like
a never ending rising
scale.
It does. It works best if you use a dense set of notes moving
over a range of several octaves. With just one or a few the
fade-ins/outs at the start/end are quite apparent.
If anyone knows of a recording of this, I would
be interested to hear
it; if not I might have a go at making one.
I once made such a thing, it's fairly easy using Csound
or similar. You just need a note that moves up (or down)
at a constant speed, with a fade-in at the start and a
fade-out at the end, then make it loop, then start a large
number of these at different positions in the cycle.
Ciao,
--
FA
O tu, che porte, correndo si ?
E guerra e morte !
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3 Mar
3 Mar
5:23 a.m.
2010/2/25 <fons(a)kokkinizita.net>et>:
On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 06:30:02PM +0000, andy baxter
wrote:
There's also a rhythmic variant of Shepard tones called Risset
accelerando. This page has supercollider code to generate one from a
recorded beat, as well as an MP3 recording:
http://swiki.hfbk-hamburg.de:8888/MusicTechnology/826
When I read the OP I thought of this since it's a kind of self-similar
structure so might be thought of as fractal...
Dan
(Actually the code would probably do shepard tones as well as risset
rhythms, if you just feed it a constant tone as audio input)
Hope this makes sense? Apparently it sounds like
a never ending rising
scale.
It does. It works best if you use a dense set of notes moving
over a range of several octaves. With just one or a few the
fade-ins/outs at the start/end are quite apparent.
If anyone knows of a recording of this, I would
be interested to hear
it; if not I might have a go at making one.
I once made such a thing, it's fairly easy using Csound
or similar. You just need a note that moves up (or down)
at a constant speed, with a fade-in at the start and a
fade-out at the end, then make it loop, then start a large
number of these at different positions in the cycle.
5177
days inactive
5185
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
9 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
andy baxter -
Dan S -
david -
Folderol -
fons＠kokkinizita.net -
James Morris -
micromoog -
Patrick Shirkey -
Peter Geirnaert