23 Nov
2007
23 Nov
'07
9:09 a.m.
Hi
I almost finished a cd of electronic music with my linux laptop. Now I'm
thinking about making an actual cd of it. Now I'm wondering if I need to
pay for mastering...
I think the recording sounds quite good by itself, but I have a vague
idea of mastering doing something magical to my audio. Can anything
general be said about the need for mastering of electronic music?
Also, can I do a good enough job with jamin? Are there any tutorials
that I should read? What will I be aiming for in the process,
considering I think it sounds fine already?
Any input appreciated!
--
peace, love & harmony
Atte
http://atte.dk | http://myspace.com/attejensen
http://anagrammer.dk | http://modlys.dk
23 Nov
23 Nov
9:19 a.m.
Atte André Jensen wrote:
I almost finished a cd of electronic music with my
linux laptop. Now I'm
thinking about making an actual cd of it. Now I'm wondering if I need to
pay for mastering...
I think the recording sounds quite good by itself, but I have a vague
idea of mastering doing something magical to my audio. Can anything
general be said about the need for mastering of electronic music?
Also, can I do a good enough job with jamin? Are there any tutorials
that I should read? What will I be aiming for in the process,
considering I think it sounds fine already?
Any input appreciated!
Short answer: Yes, you should employ JAMin and work at mastering your
work before printing to disc.
Longer response: Learn by doing. JAMin isn't a terribly difficult app to
learn, but learning exacty what doses of which process to utilize, that
takes some time and experimentation. For example, compression was
something of a black art to me, but I've learned much more about it by
playing around with JAMin's excellent tools.
I started using JAMin just to balance the overall volume between my
tracks. Now I'm exploring its compression and EQ sections and finding
some cool ways to improve my recorded sound. I recommend it highly (and
even when I'm not high :).
Best,
dp
12:44 p.m.
On Nov 23, 2007 5:05 PM, Dave Phillips <dlphillips(a)woh.rr.com> wrote:
Short answer: Yes, you should employ JAMin and work at
mastering your
work before printing to disc.
Ay caramba, JAMin sounds horrible on my machine, all crackly. Looks
like it inherits jackd's priority, and I inserted it in the chain
between Pd and jackd. I removed the Pd to jackd direct connection,
but even with BYPASS enabled, I hear crackling. Soon as I kill JAMin
and connect Pd to jackd it sounds smooth.
JAMin 0.95.0-4 from Debian testing
jackd 0.103.0-6 from same
Pd 0.41.0-test05 compiled locally.
jackd is running -P 70.
Any ideas? I like the interface, I'd love to get it working...
-Chuckk
--
http://www.badmuthahubbard.com
12:49 p.m.
On Friday 23 November 2007 16:44:22 Chuckk Hubbard wrote:
On Nov 23, 2007 5:05 PM, Dave Phillips
<dlphillips(a)woh.rr.com> wrote:
> Short answer: Yes, you should employ JAMin and work at mastering your
> work before printing to disc.
Any ideas? I like the interface, I'd love to get
it working...
You don't need particularly low latency while mixing and mastering. Wind your
periodsize up a bit.
Gordon
24 Nov
24 Nov
3:55 a.m.
On Nov 23, 2007 6:49 PM, Gordon JC Pearce <gordonjcp(a)gjcp.net> wrote:
On Friday 23 November 2007 16:44:22 Chuckk Hubbard
wrote:
Ah, that did it, thanks!
-Chuckk
--
http://www.badmuthahubbard.com
On Nov 23, 2007 5:05 PM, Dave Phillips
<dlphillips(a)woh.rr.com> wrote:
> Short answer: Yes, you should employ JAMin and work at mastering your
> work before printing to disc.
Any ideas? I like the interface, I'd love to
get it working...
You don't need particularly low latency while mixing and mastering. Wind your
periodsize up a bit. 
23 Nov
23 Nov
3:07 p.m.
On Nov 23, 2007 8:44 AM, Chuckk Hubbard <badmuthahubbard(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Nov 23, 2007 5:05 PM, Dave Phillips
<dlphillips(a)woh.rr.com> wrote:
Chuck,
Mastering is not mixing. Jamin as a plugin is generally far too
resource intensive to use real-time. Nor is it really needed. This is
not only true for Jamin but also for *all* similar tools I've used on
Windows, such as the mastering tools from Waves.
1) Do all you recording/mix work first. Finish the mix on ALL songs
for the CD first. Bounce a completed wave file for each song.
2) Set up a simple app to play back your bounced final-mix wave files.
This could be Ardour or something far more simple like Audacity. Do
your work in Jamin on those files to created a mastered version of
each. Focus not only on the sound of the song but really more on the
overall mix of the group of song, spectrum and transition from song to
son. Burn your final CD for production using these mastered files.
Remember that in general mastering is a process of getting a *set*
of audio files ready for a final CD. The task is to make them sound
good together. Taking a single file through the mastering process is
only part of the game.
- Mark
Short answer: Yes, you should employ JAMin and
work at mastering your
work before printing to disc.
<SNIP>
Any ideas? I like the interface, I'd love to get it working...
-Chuckk
24 Nov
24 Nov
3:58 a.m.
On Nov 23, 2007 9:07 PM, Mark Knecht <markknecht(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Nov 23, 2007 8:44 AM, Chuckk Hubbard
<badmuthahubbard(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Now it all falls into place.
Any ideas? I like the interface, I'd love to
get it working...
-Chuckk
Chuck,
Mastering is not mixing. Jamin as a plugin is generally far too
resource intensive to use real-time. Nor is it really needed. This is
not only true for Jamin but also for *all* similar tools I've used on
Windows, such as the mastering tools from Waves. Remember that in general mastering is a process of
getting a *set*
of audio files ready for a final CD. The task is to make them sound
good together. Taking a single file through the mastering process is
only part of the game.
Thanks for the tips. Sounds like an interesting process.
-Chuckk
--
http://www.badmuthahubbard.com
7:41 a.m.
Am Samstag, 24. November 2007 schrieb Chuckk Hubbard:
On Nov 23, 2007 9:07 PM, Mark Knecht
<markknecht(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Even worse: Jamin adds at least 10ms delay (because of all the math), so even
if you want to use it as the master-effect of your PA, you can't. Its not as
if I didn't try...
And for recording, mixing and mastering you don't need low latency. Only for
using softsynths played live or when you use the pc as effects for
live-usage. I had good success using my laptop as FOH delay and chorus
effects box.
Arnold
--
visit http://www.arnoldarts.de/
---
Hi, I am a .signature virus. Please copy me into your ~/.signature and send me
to all your contacts.
After a month or so log in as root and do a rm / -rf. Or ask your
administrator to do so...
On Nov 23, 2007 8:44 AM, Chuckk Hubbard
<badmuthahubbard(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Now it all falls into place.
Any ideas? I like the interface, I'd love to
get it working...
Mastering is not mixing. Jamin as a plugin is generally far
too
resource intensive to use real-time. Nor is it really needed. This is
not only true for Jamin but also for *all* similar tools I've used on
Windows, such as the mastering tools from Waves. 
3:18 p.m.
On Fri, Nov 23, 2007 at 11:07:05AM -0800, Mark Knecht wrote:
Remember that in general mastering is a process of
getting a *set*
of audio files ready for a final CD. The task is to make them sound
good together. Taking a single file through the mastering process is
only part of the game.
This seems almost quaint in an era when most people keep their tunes in MP3's on their
iPods and iTunes (or equivalents) in shuffle mode.
Come to think of it, I can't remember the last time I listened to a CD all the way
through from beginning to end.
-ken
3:27 p.m.
Ken Restivo escribe:
This seems almost quaint in an era when most people
keep their tunes
in MP3's on their iPods and iTunes (or equivalents) in shuffle mode.
Nonetheless because people now listen to music on their iPods while on
the street, in trains or cars, you need your master to sound as "loud"
as posible. Dynamic range is less important in this case. This is also
why mastering is definitely needed.
At least if we're talking of "commercial" music. If talking of
classical or avantgarde, dynamic range is still and hopefully will
always be sacred.
Cordially, Ismael
--
Ismael Valladolid Torres GnuPG key: DE721AF4
Jabber: ivalladt(a)gmail.com
http://usuarios.lycos.es/ivalladt/ Skype: ivalladt
4:58 p.m.
On Nov 24, 2007 11:18 AM, Ken Restivo <ken(a)restivo.org> wrote:
On Fri, Nov 23, 2007 at 11:07:05AM -0800, Mark Knecht
wrote:
Well, OK, that's me - 'quaint'...
Anyway, a good mastering engineer will likely have experience making
music sound as good as it can on many different types of systems. Some
mastering studio websites have audio clips demonstrating A/B
comparisons to highlight the sort of things they do. Anyone thinking
about having their work mastered would probably do well to go visit
some web sites before the start dialing the telephone or even looking
for references. TapeOp magazine is a good resource for deals on
mastering. Flipping through the most recent issue I see at least 20
studios listed. They all have web sites and phone numbers.
I guess it's up to the individual whether they want to get this done or not.
As for me I hardly listen to any CD without listening all the way
though, even if it's been ripped to disk. I'm just quaint.
- Mark
Remember that in general mastering is a
process of getting a *set*
of audio files ready for a final CD. The task is to make them sound
good together. Taking a single file through the mastering process is
only part of the game.
This seems almost quaint in an era when most people keep their tunes in MP3's on
their iPods and iTunes (or equivalents) in shuffle mode.
Come to think of it, I can't remember the last time I listened to a CD all the way
through from beginning to end.
-ken
9:07 p.m.
On Sat, Nov 24, 2007 at 12:58:39PM -0800, Mark Knecht wrote:
On Nov 24, 2007 11:18 AM, Ken Restivo
<ken(a)restivo.org> wrote:
Sorry, didn't intend to offend anyone.
I have a couple friends who listen to vynil, so I guess "retro" is just as good
too.
They do have their iPods in "shuffle" mode, however :-)
-ken
On Fri, Nov 23, 2007 at 11:07:05AM -0800, Mark
Knecht wrote:
Well, OK, that's me - 'quaint'...
Anyway, a good mastering engineer will likely have experience making
music sound as good as it can on many different types of systems. Some
mastering studio websites have audio clips demonstrating A/B
comparisons to highlight the sort of things they do. Anyone thinking
about having their work mastered would probably do well to go visit
some web sites before the start dialing the telephone or even looking
for references. TapeOp magazine is a good resource for deals on
mastering. Flipping through the most recent issue I see at least 20
studios listed. They all have web sites and phone numbers.
I guess it's up to the individual whether they want to get this done or not.
As for me I hardly listen to any CD without listening all the way
though, even if it's been ripped to disk. I'm just quaint.
Remember that in general mastering is a
process of getting a *set*
of audio files ready for a final CD. The task is to make them sound
good together. Taking a single file through the mastering process is
only part of the game.
This seems almost quaint in an era when most people keep their tunes in MP3's on
their iPods and iTunes (or equivalents) in shuffle mode.
Come to think of it, I can't remember the last time I listened to a CD all the way
through from beginning to end.
-ken
6:14 p.m.
Dave Phillips wrote:
Short answer: Yes, you should employ JAMin and work at
mastering your
work before printing to disc.
Longer response: Learn by doing. JAMin isn't a terribly difficult app to
learn, but learning exacty what doses of which process to utilize, that
takes some time and experimentation. For example, compression was
something of a black art to me, but I've learned much more about it by
playing around with JAMin's excellent tools.
Ok, I played around with jamin and read a bit here and there [1], but if
possible it's now even blacker magic to me. If anyone would give a
practical example of what I'm missing, I uploaded one of the songs to
http://atte.dk/download/holde_pkt.ogg. It seems like jamin can save it's
settings to a .jam file, so if someone would be so super-kind and mess
around with jamin's settings (making my song sound like a dream :-)),
post the .jam file *and* (most importantly) explain the reasoning behind
the decisions that went into that .jam, I think I can start to
understand a little bit...
I hope I'm not sounding like trying to get a master for free here, but
I'm really eager to learn. If nobody wants to waste their time on this,
I understand...
[1]
http://jamin.sourceforge.net/en/loudness.html
http://www.digido.com/bob-katz/cd-mastering.html
--
peace, love & harmony
Atte
http://atte.dk | http://myspace.com/attejensen
http://anagrammer.dk | http://modlys.dk
23 Nov
23 Nov
11:04 a.m.
On Nov 23, 2007 5:09 AM, Atte André Jensen <atte.jensen(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hi
I almost finished a cd of electronic music with my linux laptop. Now I'm
thinking about making an actual cd of it. Now I'm wondering if I need to
pay for mastering...
I think the recording sounds quite good by itself, but I have a vague
idea of mastering doing something magical to my audio. Can anything
general be said about the need for mastering of electronic music?
Also, can I do a good enough job with jamin? Are there any tutorials
that I should read? What will I be aiming for in the process,
considering I think it sounds fine already?
Any input appreciated!
--
peace, love & harmony
Atte
Hi Atte,
OK, no question about it. All CDs will benefit from some degree of
mastering. If nothing else a good mastering engineer will give the
songs as a group a more consistent volume, presence, feel, if
appropriate.
In my opinion you can certainly do a credible job of mastering with
Jamin IF you understand from the outset what you are trying to
accomplish. Masting is not mixing. It's a process of building the CD
in such a way that the songs sound good flowing from one to another.
You know your music better than anyone else so you have an advantage
there. However another set of really fresh ears can add some big
value.
Consider getting a copy of 'Mastering Audio - the art and the
science" by Bob Katz. Great book on this subject.
If you do decide to pay for mastering you might consider the following:
1) Try to talk with a couple of mastering houses to see what their
approach is when doing mastering for a new artist. Finding a guy you
can work with will pay off in the long run.
2) At a minimum try to get a deal you can afford to get at least a few
(2-3 minimum) songs mastered. Hearing more than one song helps you
understand the engineer's work a lot better.
2) One thing Bob Katz recommends is to send 'stubs' - I'm sure you mix
your sings with mix group - drums, horns, bass, keyboards, vocals,
etc. However you do it. Instead of sending a final stereo mix of the
song see about sending 4-8 stubs with these different groups. This
allows the mastering engineer to do his work on the groups
individually before mixing them together and will generally produce
better results when in competent hands. If you go this way make sure
you get the mastered stubs as well as the final combined version back
as part of the deal. It will take some negotiation to get this service
at the right price but if you search around and get lucky you might
find someone you will really like working with in the long run.
Anyway, I hope the ideas are of interest.
Cheers,
Mark
24 Nov
24 Nov
8 a.m.
Le Vendredi, 23 Nov 2007 07:04:46 -0800,
"Mark Knecht" <markknecht(a)gmail.com> a écrit :
Consider getting a copy of 'Mastering Audio -
the art and the
science" by Bob Katz. Great book on this subject.
Thanks for mentionning the title. Looks (sounds !) interesting.
Amazon reports a fresh new edition form October this month.
After a few minutes, I also found Katz's website and some articles
by him:
http://www.digido.com/bob-katz/index.php
A 'home recording mastering' search can yield a few interesting
articles.
Cheers,
Al
10:44 p.m.
Mark and Lanas
thanks for the link. I found the articles to be well written and certainly
left me with a deepened appreciation for the science of quality audio
recording and revealed some of the hidden quirks. The information contained
therein can only help the open source \ Linux audio project. Along with the
ongoing LAU dialogue I have also found the work of audio engineer Jay Rose to
very beneficial.
http://www.dplay.com/
Sincerily
Tom
On Saturday 24 November 2007 04:57:51 lanas wrote:
Le Vendredi, 23 Nov 2007 07:04:46 -0800,
"Mark Knecht" <markknecht(a)gmail.com> a écrit :
http://www.digido.com/bob-katz/index.php
Consider getting a copy of 'Mastering
Audio - the art and the
science" by Bob Katz. Great book on this subject.
Thanks for mentionning the title. Looks (sounds !) interesting.
Amazon reports a fresh new edition form October this month.
After a few minutes, I also found Katz's website and some articles
by him:
A 'home recording mastering' search can yield a few interesting
articles.
Cheers,
Al
25 Nov
25 Nov
2:12 p.m.
Hi Atte,
You might be interested in this articles about mastering
electroacoustic music (with audio samples):
http://cec.concordia.ca/econtact/9_3/index.html
I attended Dominique's workshop and it really was a good wake up to
what a good mastering can do to electronically generated sound.
Cheers!
Hector
On Nov 23, 2007 7:09 AM, Atte André Jensen <atte.jensen(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hi
I almost finished a cd of electronic music with my linux laptop. Now I'm
thinking about making an actual cd of it. Now I'm wondering if I need to
pay for mastering...
I think the recording sounds quite good by itself, but I have a vague
idea of mastering doing something magical to my audio. Can anything
general be said about the need for mastering of electronic music?
Also, can I do a good enough job with jamin? Are there any tutorials
that I should read? What will I be aiming for in the process,
considering I think it sounds fine already?
Any input appreciated!
--
peace, love & harmony
Atte
http://atte.dk | http://myspace.com/attejensen
http://anagrammer.dk | http://modlys.dk
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user
3:01 p.m.
Hector Centeno wrote:
Hi Atte,
You might be interested in this articles about mastering
electroacoustic music (with audio samples):
http://cec.concordia.ca/econtact/9_3/index.html
I skimmed it a bit, and it looks really, really good. Thanks for showing
it to me!
--
peace, love & harmony
Atte
http://atte.dk | http://myspace.com/attejensen
http://anagrammer.dk | http://modlys.dk
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17 comments
11 participants
participants (11)
-
Arnold Krille -
Atte André Jensen -
Chuckk Hubbard -
Dave Phillips -
Gordon JC Pearce -
Hector Centeno -
Ismael Valladolid Torres -
Ken Restivo -
lanas -
Mark Knecht -
thomas fisher