23 Mar
2014
23 Mar
'14
12:02 a.m.
Hi all,
I have been using Hydrogen for a few years now, both by programming
drum patterns or playing live with an e-drums and there are few things
I'm missing...
I wouldn't mind having a look into coding them, but I'd like to get
the feedback/comments/opinions/screams of despair from the community.
HiHat & EDrums
Hydrogen only deals with close/open for the hihat control. It should
be easy enough to mark the instruments as being part of a hihat and
provide for each hihat instruments a range to define which one is
triggered. For example close from 0 to 10, half-open from 11 to 40,
open from 41 to 127.
EDrum sends a cc message for how close the hihat is closed.
There is already a script to do something very similar
(http://www.hydrogen-music.org/hcms/node/2807) using mididings, but
having it in Hydrogen would be more user friendly I guess?
EDrums & Cymbal choke
I believe edrums are using aftertouch for that (to confirm) - sample
could simply be muted?
Multi-mics drum samples
Drums recording often uses several mic placements and depending how
they are mixed it changes the mood of the drums. For example mixing
using overhead and direct samples.
I have drum samples where:
- the snare is composed of under, above and overhead takes
- cymbals are direct and overhead takes
- kick is front, back, inside
- etc...
Per instrument, we could have groups of samples:
- Instrument would have one fader per group and one fader for the
whole instrument
- Each instrument group would have its own output
- Each group would have its fader - if we have multiple instruments
with the group "overhead", this fader can control the gain for the
overall overhead
- I don't know what to do with panner - would anybody have an opinion on that?
- Trigger/velocity (programmed or played live) would trigger would
trigger all necessary samples
What do you guys think of these proposals?
Aurélien
23 Mar
23 Mar
4:48 a.m.
On Sun, Mar 23, 2014 at 12:02:56AM +0000, Aurélien Leblond wrote:
Hi all,
I have been using Hydrogen for a few years now, both by programming
drum patterns or playing live with an e-drums and there are few things
I'm missing...
I wouldn't mind having a look into coding them, but I'd like to get
the feedback/comments/opinions/screams of despair from the community.
Wouldn't it make more sense to include:
http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/hydrogen-users
and
http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/hydrogen-devel
in the discussion?
--
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the
oppressing." --- Malcolm X
6:37 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Drums - EDrums - Hydrogen
Hi Aurélien,
Aurélien Leblond wrote:
Hi all,
I have been using Hydrogen for a few years now, both by programming
drum patterns or playing live with an e-drums and there are few things
I'm missing...
I wouldn't mind having a look into coding them, but I'd like to get
the feedback/comments/opinions/screams of despair from the community.
HiHat & EDrums
Hydrogen only deals with close/open for the hihat control. It should
be easy enough to mark the instruments as being part of a hihat and
provide for each hihat instruments a range to define which one is
triggered. For example close from 0 to 10, half-open from 11 to 40,
open from 41 to 127.
EDrum sends a cc message for how close the hihat is closed.
There is already a script to do something very similar
(http://www.hydrogen-music.org/hcms/node/2807) using mididings, but
having it in Hydrogen would be more user friendly I guess?
This would be really
handy. I'm one of the hydrogen devs and i had a
look into
this problem some years ago.. At that time i was experimenting with a
roland edrum
and ran into the same issue. But i switched back to accoustic drums and
got rid of that
problem the easy way :) What i was asking myself at that time: Is there
a standard way
of sending hihat pressure information?? IIRC the roland was sending
similar CC messages.
EDrums & Cymbal choke
I believe edrums are using aftertouch for that (to confirm) - sample
could simply be muted?
No idea.. Never inspected the midi stream of my edrum when using chokes.
I think sending a "virtual" note-off could be better then to mute it
(then you don't
have the trouble to unmute it afterwards).
Multi-mics drum samples
Drums recording often uses several mic placements and depending how
they are mixed it changes the mood of the drums. For example mixing
using overhead and direct samples.
I have drum samples where:
- the snare is composed of under, above and overhead takes
- cymbals are direct and overhead takes
- kick is front, back, inside
- etc...
Per instrument, we could have groups of samples:
- Instrument would have one fader per group and one fader for the
whole instrument
- Each instrument group would have its own output
- Each group would have its fader - if we have multiple instruments
with the group "overhead", this fader can control the gain for the
overall overhead
- I don't know what to do with panner - would anybody have an opinion on that?
- Trigger/velocity (programmed or played live) would trigger would
trigger all necessary samples
Well, yes.. its a nice idea. This has been proposed
quite often, but no
one really worked
out a complete concept or even wrote a patch. I think the first stage
would be to allow
more then one sample per layer and to define how to choose between those
layers (random,
in parallel (your approach) or with a user-defined script. I would
suggest to start with your first
two ideas, they would be a good start to get into hydrogen development,
if you're interested in
that.
Btw. if you want, you could create "enhancement" tickets on the hydrogen
issue tracker at github.
Best regards,
Sebastian
What do you guys think of these proposals?
Aurélien
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9:37 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Drums - EDrums - Hydrogen
On Sun, 23 Mar 2014, Sebastian Moors wrote:
Aurélien Leblond wrote:
Wow, that opens a whole can of worms... (in my mind anyway). I am
thinking the whole keyboard to play struck instruments fails to some
extent, not just in drums, but anything normally played with mallets like
vibes or steel drums.
The keyboard is the best controller for piano or organ/synth type sounds
because they all have a note off event. Because they do, a second playing
of the same note will always find a note that has some time in the past
found a note off.
This is not the case with a struck instrument, though I am sure most synth
patches that try to emulate a struck instrument effectively ignore the
note off (or set the note off envelope to the same as if the note stays
on). I would think on a polyphonic synth hitting the same note again would
give a mix of the first note event still fading out plus the same note new
event playing the same thing. So it might sound like the player hit a
second cymbal sounding exactly the same as the first rather the same
cymbal where hitting it a second time would stop or at least modify the
sound of the first strike.
Maybe keyboards (or synths) already take care of this, but what should
happen is that one of them should generate a note off followed by the new
note on information. In the case of a cymbal, this would be very hard to
emulate, because a crash followed by a ride hit would not completely stop
the crash sound, just change it. It may take several ride hits (which on a
real set might each sound different in their own right) before the crash
sound is not a signifcant part of the sound.
Of course making a short span of keyboard (range of notes really)
monophonic may work for some of this. If only cymbal sounds from the same
cymbal are in that range. This would make a high hat work for example,
because in a monophonic keyboard the last note is always cut off by the
new one. The problem is you have to effectively have a span of keys for
each drum...
Well just some thoughts. While I have a few keyboards, I am not a player,
I can do some string pads here and there :) I have also played drums, but
it has been years since I have had a live set to play and I have not taken
the time to think about why the cheap set of pads I have sound so bad... I
just expect that since they are cheap.
--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net
EDrums & Cymbal choke
I believe edrums are using aftertouch for that (to confirm) - sample
could simply be muted?
No idea.. Never inspected the midi stream of my edrum when using chokes.
I think sending a "virtual" note-off could be better then to mute it (then
you don't
have the trouble to unmute it afterwards). 
9:44 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Drums - EDrums - Hydrogen
I believe edrums are using aftertouch for that (to
confirm) - sample
could simply be muted?
most of edrums do so with an aftertouch message, mainly because edrums modules have used
those messages.
Often, edrum soundbanks also offer a separate key to grab (mute) the cymbal, thus another
note_on message. It's simpler when you program drums instead of playing them with an
electronic set.
What do you guys think of these proposals?
moving Hydrogen to a more dedicated drums sampler could be great, but as for today, i find
sampler more versatile to achieve good sounding results.
You can for example use linuxsampler, and try out many GIG of SFZ free presets.
Raphaël
4004
days inactive
4004
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
4 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
-
Aurélien Leblond -
Chris Bannister -
Len Ovens -
raf -
Sebastian Moors