19 Oct
2011
19 Oct
'11
10:46 a.m.
On 10/18/2011 07:45 PM, S. Massy wrote:
I don't know the TAP limiter. But whats bad with Steve Harris Fast Look
Ahead Limiter? It's one of the best limiters I know and btw. any Limiter
is useless in the master bus. There's enough headroom to ban a limiter,
assumed the basic mixing is ok. AFAIK there's only one usage for a
limiter in the master bus. Do wish to get rid of any dynamic?
Regards,
Ralf
- Finally, the only thing which seems to have
been left out by others is
the TAP scaling limiter which is great for final limiting if handled
gently.
Oh yeah true! Most of the time the LADSPA Fast Look Ahead Limiter is
sitting in my Master bus.
Best,
Jeremy
19 Oct
19 Oct
10:52 a.m.
New subject: Top DSP plugins?
not a plugin, but Jamin is great for finally
mastering, especially when
you have to compete with the overcompressed loudnesswar bullshit of the
kids, which happens when you submit stuff to compilations. It can get
your stuff rather loud without pumping. I hate this but sometimes you
need that.
+1, regarding to Jamin is good and it does work without pumping. I'm quiet regarding
to the other issue.
11:22 a.m.
New subject: Top DSP plugins?
On 10/19/2011 10:52 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
+1, regarding to Jamin is good and it does work
without pumping.
I'm not so fond of JAMin. It has flaws and consumes way too much CPU.
About a year ago Patrick Shirkey mentioned that there was no other JACK
application that attempts to provide a complete mastering chain. But
that was about a year ago, at the moment it is perfectly possible to
create a similar tool chain with the help of plug-ins. I prefer plug-ins
then, more flexible.
Best,
Jeremy
1:56 p.m.
New subject: Top DSP plugins?
On Wednesday 19 October 2011 11:23:09 Jeremy Jongepier wrote:
On 10/19/2011 10:52 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
Completely rebuilding Jamin with single plugins will consume even more cpu
than jamin itself. The reason is that jamin is actually built from plugins
(the look-ahead and the compressors are plugins) but also merges plugins
internally to optimize for speed...
Have fun,
Arnold
+1, regarding to Jamin is good and it does work
without pumping.
I'm not so fond of JAMin. It has flaws and consumes way too much CPU.
About a year ago Patrick Shirkey mentioned that there was no other JACK
application that attempts to provide a complete mastering chain. But
that was about a year ago, at the moment it is perfectly possible to
create a similar tool chain with the help of plug-ins. I prefer plug-ins
then, more flexible. 
2:44 p.m.
New subject: Top DSP plugins?
On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 7:56 AM, Arnold Krille <arnold(a)arnoldarts.de> wrote:
On Wednesday 19 October 2011 11:23:09 Jeremy Jongepier
wrote:
I haven't had issues per se with CPU resources (whern I am using Jamin, I am
not doing anything else except recording the output), but what are the
alleged flaws in Jamin?
--
Brett W. McCoy -- http://www.electricminstrel.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden; If I were to divulge it, it
would overturn the world."
-- Jelaleddin Rumi
On 10/19/2011 10:52 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
Completely rebuilding Jamin with single plugins will consume even more cpu
than jamin itself. The reason is that jamin is actually built from plugins
(the look-ahead and the compressors are plugins) but also merges plugins
internally to optimize for speed...
+1, regarding to Jamin is good and it does work
without pumping.
I'm not so fond of JAMin. It has flaws and consumes way too much CPU.
About a year ago Patrick Shirkey mentioned that there was no other JACK
application that attempts to provide a complete mastering chain. But
that was about a year ago, at the moment it is perfectly possible to
create a similar tool chain with the help of plug-ins. I prefer plug-ins
then, more flexible.
2:53 p.m.
New subject: Top DSP plugins?
On 10/19/2011 02:44 PM, Brett McCoy wrote:
On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 7:56 AM, Arnold Krille
<arnold(a)arnoldarts.de> wrote:
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/pipermail/linux-audio-user/2010-May/069653.html
I think it was explained in another thread but as I am no DSP expert I
could be wrong. This was the other thread:
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/pipermail/linux-audio-user/2010-September/07289…
Sorry to dig this up and maybe I shouldn't say flaws, I guess it's about
different interpretations on how filtering is done.
Best,
Jeremy
On Wednesday 19 October 2011 11:23:09 Jeremy
Jongepier wrote:
I haven't had issues per se with CPU resources (whern I am using Jamin, I am
not doing anything else except recording the output), but what are the
alleged flaws in Jamin?
On 10/19/2011 10:52 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
Completely rebuilding Jamin with single plugins will consume even more cpu
than jamin itself. The reason is that jamin is actually built from plugins
(the look-ahead and the compressors are plugins) but also merges plugins
internally to optimize for speed...
+1, regarding to Jamin is good and it does work
without pumping.
I'm not so fond of JAMin. It has flaws and consumes way too much CPU.
About a year ago Patrick Shirkey mentioned that there was no other JACK
application that attempts to provide a complete mastering chain. But
that was about a year ago, at the moment it is perfectly possible to
create a similar tool chain with the help of plug-ins. I prefer plug-ins
then, more flexible.
3:04 p.m.
New subject: Top DSP plugins?
On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 8:53 AM, Jeremy Jongepier <jeremy(a)autostatic.com>wrote;wrote:
am
Most of that is over my head. What does this translate to when I am
mastering a stereo mix with Jamin?
--
Brett W. McCoy -- http://www.electricminstrel.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden; If I were to divulge it, it
would overturn the world."
-- Jelaleddin Rumi
On 10/19/2011 02:44 PM, Brett McCoy wrote:
> Completely
rebuilding Jamin with single plugins will consume even more
cpu
> than jamin itself. The reason is that jamin
is actually built from
plugins
(the
look-ahead and the compressors are plugins) but also merges plugins
internally to optimize for speed...
I haven't had issues per se with CPU resources (whern I am using Jamin, I not doing anything else except recording the
output), but what are the
alleged flaws in Jamin?
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/pipermail/linux-audio-user/2010-May/069653.html
I think it was explained in another thread but as I am no DSP expert I
could be wrong. This was the other thread:
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/pipermail/linux-audio-user/2010-September/07289…
Sorry to dig this up and maybe I shouldn't say flaws, I guess it's about
different interpretations on how filtering is done.
3:23 p.m.
New subject: Top DSP plugins?
On 10/19/2011 03:04 PM, Brett McCoy wrote:
Most of that is over my head. What does this translate
to when I am
mastering a stereo mix with Jamin?
Soundwise, as far as I have understood as a DSP layman it could
introduce artefacts, but I wonder in how far those are audible. Guess if
you're a DSP layman you probably can't distinguish any possible
artefacts. The other point is the DSP load of JAMin, last time I used
JAMin on my quad core machine I recall the DSP load rose about 20 to
25%. If I use separate plug-ins it's about 10%. But I have to test that
again to be sure sure.
Best,
Jeremy
4:37 p.m.
New subject: Top DSP plugins?
On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 03:23:34PM +0200, Jeremy Jongepier wrote:
Soundwise, as far as I have understood as a DSP layman
it could
introduce artefacts, but I wonder in how far those are audible. Guess if
you're a DSP layman you probably can't distinguish any possible
artefacts. The other point is the DSP load of JAMin, last time I used
JAMin on my quad core machine I recall the DSP load rose about 20 to
25%. If I use separate plug-ins it's about 10%. But I have to test that
again to be sure sure.
The two issues are related. The FFT based EQ in Jamin uses a form
of block processing that leads to a filter that is not time-invariant,
it produces AM on some frequencies. In the first release that was very
obvious, you could actually hear it quite easily. Instead of changing
the algorthm to a correct one (which would be quite similar) the Jamin
devs chose to mitigate the effect by increasing the overlap between
successive blocks. IIRC there are now 32 overlapping blocks at any
time. This reduces the modulation to acceptable levels, but is also
what is responsible for the high CPU load. A correct implementation of
this type of EQ requires an overlap of half the FFT size, so it would
require much less CPU.
Ciao,
--
FA
4:45 p.m.
New subject: Top DSP plugins?
On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 10:37 AM, Fons Adriaensen <fons(a)linuxaudio.org> wrote:
The two issues are related. The FFT based EQ in Jamin
uses a form
of block processing that leads to a filter that is not time-invariant,
it produces AM on some frequencies. In the first release that was very
obvious, you could actually hear it quite easily. Instead of changing
the algorthm to a correct one (which would be quite similar) the Jamin
devs chose to mitigate the effect by increasing the overlap between
successive blocks. IIRC there are now 32 overlapping blocks at any
time. This reduces the modulation to acceptable levels, but is also
what is responsible for the high CPU load. A correct implementation of
this type of EQ requires an overlap of half the FFT size, so it would
require much less CPU.
My main concern with Jamin these days is whether or not it's being
actively developed and/or supported... it hasn't been updated in quite
a while (0.95 came out in 2005, right?).
--
Brett W. McCoy -- http://www.electricminstrel.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden; If I were to divulge it,
it would overturn the world."
-- Jelaleddin Rumi
4:57 p.m.
New subject: Top DSP plugins?
On 10/19/2011 04:45 PM, Brett McCoy wrote:
My main concern with Jamin these days is whether or
not it's being
actively developed and/or supported... it hasn't been updated in quite
a while (0.95 came out in 2005, right?).
It's at 0.97.16, last updated 6 months ago.
Best,
Jeremy
5:06 p.m.
New subject: Top DSP plugins?
On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 10:58 AM, Jeremy Jongepier
<jeremy(a)autostatic.com> wrote:
On 10/19/2011 04:45 PM, Brett McCoy wrote:
Maybe I am looking in the wrong place...? All I see on the Jamin
website & Sourceforge is 0.95.0
--
Brett W. McCoy -- http://www.electricminstrel.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden; If I were to divulge it,
it would overturn the world."
-- Jelaleddin Rumi
My main concern with Jamin these days is whether
or not it's being
actively developed and/or supported... it hasn't been updated in quite
a while (0.95 came out in 2005, right?).
It's at 0.97.16, last updated 6 months ago.
5:13 p.m.
New subject: Top DSP plugins?
On 10/19/2011 05:06 PM, Brett McCoy wrote:
On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 10:58 AM, Jeremy Jongepier
<jeremy(a)autostatic.com> wrote:
http://jamin.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/jamin/jamin/configure.in?view=log
So you have to compile from CVS if you want the latest version.
Best,
Jeremy
On 10/19/2011 04:45 PM, Brett McCoy wrote:
Maybe I am looking in the wrong place...? All I see on the Jamin
website & Sourceforge is 0.95.0
My main concern with Jamin these days is whether
or not it's being
actively developed and/or supported... it hasn't been updated in quite
a while (0.95 came out in 2005, right?).
It's at 0.97.16, last updated 6 months ago.
5:15 p.m.
New subject: Top DSP plugins?
On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 11:13 AM, Jeremy Jongepier
<jeremy(a)autostatic.com> wrote:
On 10/19/2011 05:06 PM, Brett McCoy wrote:
Ah, I was afraid of that
--
Brett W. McCoy -- http://www.electricminstrel.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden; If I were to divulge it,
it would overturn the world."
-- Jelaleddin Rumi
On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 10:58 AM, Jeremy
Jongepier
<jeremy(a)autostatic.com> wrote:
http://jamin.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/jamin/jamin/configure.in?view=log
So you have to compile from CVS if you want the latest version. On 10/19/2011 04:45 PM, Brett McCoy wrote:
Maybe I am looking in the wrong place...? All I see on the Jamin
website & Sourceforge is 0.95.0
My main concern with Jamin these days is whether
or not it's being
actively developed and/or supported... it hasn't been updated in quite
a while (0.95 came out in 2005, right?).
It's at 0.97.16, last updated 6 months ago. 
21 Oct
21 Oct
9:08 a.m.
New subject: Top DSP plugins?
On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 05:13:31PM +0200, Jeremy Jongepier jeremy-at-autostatic.com
wrote:
On 10/19/2011 05:06 PM, Brett McCoy wrote:
Why are so many projects going in the direction of never having any
official releases, and requiring everyone to use CVS, SVN, GIT, or
whatever instead? I can understand making their software available to
whoever wants it through those methods, but it seems to me there should
still be official releases that can be counted on to be stable.
Chuck
On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 10:58 AM, Jeremy
Jongepier
<jeremy(a)autostatic.com> wrote:
http://jamin.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/jamin/jamin/configure.in?view=log
So you have to compile from CVS if you want the latest version. On 10/19/2011 04:45 PM, Brett McCoy wrote:
Maybe I am looking in the wrong place...? All I see on the Jamin
website & Sourceforge is 0.95.0
My main concern with Jamin these days is whether
or not it's being
actively developed and/or supported... it hasn't been updated in quite
a while (0.95 came out in 2005, right?).
It's at 0.97.16, last updated 6 months ago. 
19 Oct
19 Oct
5:12 p.m.
New subject: Top DSP plugins?
On Wed, 2011-10-19 at 14:37 +0000, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
The two issues are related. The FFT based EQ in Jamin
uses a form
of block processing that leads to a filter that is not time-invariant,
it produces AM on some frequencies. In the first release that was very
obvious, you could actually hear it quite easily. Instead of changing
the algorthm to a correct one (which would be quite similar) the Jamin
devs chose to mitigate the effect by increasing the overlap between
successive blocks. IIRC there are now 32 overlapping blocks at any
time. This reduces the modulation to acceptable levels, but is also
what is responsible for the high CPU load. A correct implementation of
this type of EQ requires an overlap of half the FFT size, so it would
require much less CPU.
Ciao,
How much work would be require to implement this change?
Rich...
3:05 p.m.
New subject: Top DSP plugins?
I haven't
had issues per se with CPU resources (whern I am using Jamin, I am
not doing anything else except recording the output), but what are the
alleged flaws in Jamin?
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/pipermail/linux-audio-user/2010-May/069653.html
I think it was explained in another thread but as I am no DSP expert I
could be wrong. This was the other thread:
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/pipermail/linux-audio-user/2010-
Sorry to dig this up and maybe I shouldn't say flaws, I guess it's about
different interpretations on how filtering is done.
i cannot comment on the theoretical aspects of the signal processing part, but i
once tried jamin on a track and it completely destroyed the bass frequencies ...
tim
3:09 p.m.
New subject: Top DSP plugins?
On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 9:05 AM, Tim Blechmann <tim(a)klingt.org> wrote:
September/072897.html
The only other mastering app I have used is T-RackS (IK Multimedia, on
Windows), and I didn't care for it much.... it made the music sound
very brittle and over-processed. I think Jamin works better for my
purposes (and much easier to use)
--
Brett W. McCoy -- http://www.electricminstrel.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden; If I were to divulge it,
it would overturn the world."
-- Jelaleddin Rumi
I
haven't had issues per se with CPU resources (whern I am using Jamin, I am
not doing anything else except recording the output), but what are the
alleged flaws in Jamin?
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/pipermail/linux-audio-user/2010-May/069653.html
I think it was explained in another thread but as I am no DSP expert I
could be wrong. This was the other thread:
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/pipermail/linux-audio-user/2010-
Sorry to dig this up and maybe I shouldn't say flaws, I guess it's about
different interpretations on how filtering is done.
i cannot comment on the theoretical aspects of the signal processing part, but i
once tried jamin on a track and it completely destroyed the bass frequencies ... 
3:48 p.m.
New subject: Top DSP plugins?
On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 4:23 AM, Jeremy Jongepier <jeremy(a)autostatic.com>wrote;wrote:
On 10/19/2011 10:52 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
Multiband Compressor and the TAP Scaling Limiter.
--Steve
+1, regarding to Jamin is good and it does work
without pumping.
I'm not so fond of JAMin. It has flaws and consumes way too much CPU.
About a year ago Patrick Shirkey mentioned that there was no other JACK
application that attempts to provide a complete mastering chain. But
that was about a year ago, at the moment it is perfectly possible to
create a similar tool chain with the help of plug-ins. I prefer plug-ins
then, more flexible.
If I want to be loud I'm happy with the results I get using linuxDSP's
4 p.m.
New subject: Top DSP plugins?
On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 2:28 PM, S C Rigler <riglersc(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 4:23 AM, Jeremy Jongepier <jeremy(a)autostatic.com>
wrote:
Some really interesting things here. I think the main issue for me has
been finding a good reverb that I'm happy with. Never tried any of the
convolution solutions though - so will give that a go.
Regarding mastering, I've heard good things about nama, but never used
it myself:
http://ecmdr.infogami.com/blog/
J
On 10/19/2011 10:52 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
If I want to be loud I'm happy with the results I get using linuxDSP's
Multiband Compressor and the TAP Scaling Limiter.
--Steve +1, regarding to Jamin is good and it does work
without pumping.
I'm not so fond of JAMin. It has flaws and consumes way too much CPU.
About a year ago Patrick Shirkey mentioned that there was no other JACK
application that attempts to provide a complete mastering chain. But
that was about a year ago, at the moment it is perfectly possible to
create a similar tool chain with the help of plug-ins. I prefer plug-ins
then, more flexible.
6:38 p.m.
New subject: Top DSP plugins?
Some really interesting things here. I think the main
issue for me has
been finding a good reverb that I'm happy with. Never tried any of the
convolution solutions though - so will give that a go.
Hi,
you surely will like it :
http://factorial.hu/plugins/lv2/ir
IIRC there's links to soundbanks too !
Cheers,
Fred
J
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Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
8:43 p.m.
New subject: Top DSP plugins?
On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 03:00:30PM +0100, James Stone wrote:
On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 2:28 PM, S C Rigler
<riglersc(a)gmail.com> wrote:
G2verb
is very good, but you have to invest some time in acquiring a
feel for what are sensible values to achieve whatever type of sound
you're looking for.
On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 4:23 AM, Jeremy Jongepier <jeremy(a)autostatic.com>
wrote:
Some really interesting things here. I think the main issue for me has
been finding a good reverb that I'm happy with. Never tried any of the
On 10/19/2011 10:52 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
If I want to be loud I'm happy with the results I get using linuxDSP's
Multiband Compressor and the TAP Scaling Limiter.
--Steve +1, regarding to Jamin is good and it does work
without pumping.
I'm not so fond of JAMin. It has flaws and consumes way too much CPU.
About a year ago Patrick Shirkey mentioned that there was no other JACK
application that attempts to provide a complete mastering chain. But
that was about a year ago, at the moment it is perfectly possible to
create a similar tool chain with the help of plug-ins. I prefer plug-ins
then, more flexible.
convolution solutions though - so will give that a go.
It's very good.
Regarding mastering, I've heard good things about nama, but never used
it myself:
http://ecmdr.infogami.com/blog/
Nama is what I use for all the work I do, so does
Julien Claassen who
has shared much of his work with this list. Nama has a mastering chain
set up using many of the plugins mentioned in this thread and offers all
one needs for mastering, at least to my mind. I don't think it makes
much sense to have an overly elaborate mastering chain in the first
place. YMMV
Cheers,
S.M.
23 Oct
23 Oct
9:17 a.m.
New subject: Top DSP plugins?
On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 03:00:30PM +0100, James Stone wrote:
Regarding mastering, I've heard good things about
nama, but never used
it myself:
That site is out of date. Unfortunately, infogami
has kept the content without allowing user logins
to edit/redirect.
A slightly less out-of-date site is here:
http://freeshell.de/~bolangi/cgi1/nama.cgi/00home.html
J
--
Joel Roth
5:21 p.m.
New subject: Top DSP plugins?
On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 10:46:03AM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
I don't know the TAP limiter. But whats bad with
Steve Harris Fast Look
Ahead Limiter? It's one of the best limiters I know
Indeed it works well.
and btw. any Limiter is useless in the master bus.
You may enjoy Steve Jobs being dead, and maybe Gates and Merkel
even more when that happens, but none of them would produce such
gratituous nonsense as what you write above.
In fact the only place where you want a limiter that acts on the
actual peaks, and in the way a lookahead limiter does it, is at
the output of the master bus, just before you convert to a fixed
bit size (file or soundcard).
There's enough headroom to ban a limiter, assumed
the basic mixing is ok.
Almost all of my recording is 'classical' music which does not
require high average level or invasive compression. But even
using conservative average levels (mostly EBU loudness based
these days), that doean't mean that you can't get a signal that
peaks above 0 dB. It may happen just 0.01% of the time, but it
happens. And such short peaks are no good reason to lower the
average level, and limiting them to avoid clipping is completely
transparent, so I always use a limiter in the master bus.
Ciao,
--
FA
4725
days inactive
4729
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
24 comments
13 participants
participants (13)
-
Arnold Krille -
Brett McCoy -
Chuck Martin -
Fons Adriaensen -
fred -
James Stone -
Jeremy Jongepier -
Joel Roth -
Ralf Mardorf -
Ricardus Vincente -
S C Rigler -
S. Massy -
Tim Blechmann