On Sun, Jul 03, 2005 at 02:20:52PM -0600, Steve D wrote: I would like to hear what you come up with on some breakbeats, if you are interested: http://wrstud.uni-wuppertal.de/~ka0394/this_and_that.ogg Just ignore the overy simplistic and repetetiv melody, it's a very old track :) I could load the drumloops up, no arrangement, as I'm very busy and I would do it in MusE anyway, not Ardour as I don't feel like learning to use it, since I usualy need both audio and midi in one go (the original has been created with Cubase VST). This offer is also open for anyone else. --- Thorsten Wilms

On Mon, 4 Jul 2005 11:26:07 -0600 Steve D <groups(a)xscd.com> wrote: I had the impression this was an error in the file: ~$ mplayer http://wrstud.uni-wuppertal.de/~ka0394/this_and_that.ogg [snip] Starting playback... Ogg : Page out not synced, we skip some bytes Ogg : Page out not synced, we skip some bytes Ogg : Page out not synced, we skip some bytes Ogg : Page out not synced, we skip some bytes Ogg : Page out not synced, we skip some bytes Ogg : Page out not synced, we skip some bytes Ogg : Page out not synced, we skip some bytes Ogg : Page out not synced, we skip some bytes Ogg : Page out not synced, we skip some bytes Ogg : Page out not synced, we skip some bytes Ogg : Page out not synced, we skip some bytes Ogg : Page out not synced, we skip some bytes Ogg : Page out not synced, we skip some bytes Ogg : bad packet in stream 0 Ogg : Page out not synced, we skip some bytes Ogg : Page out not synced, we skip some bytes Ogg : Page out not synced, we skip some bytes Ogg : Page out not synced, we skip some bytes Ogg : Page out not synced, we skip some bytes Ogg : Page out not synced, we skip some bytes Ogg : Page out not synced, we skip some bytes Ogg : bad packet in stream 0 Flo -- Palimm Palimm! http://affenbande.org/~tapas/

Now after a second try the file is up, tested and found to be intact. http://wrstud.uni-wuppertal.de/~ka0394/this_and_that.ogg --- Thorsten Wilms

Carotinho wrote: It depends on the music and the venue. If possible, using amplifiers for the guitar and bass is more ideal -- the musicians will have more control over their sound and not have to rely on the sound person, and this is a good thing. It also depends on how powerful your PA is... to get a good bass sound through a PA, you will need to push the PA up pretty hot, and it can easily overdrive the speakers. (BTW, I am a lead guitarist so I am speaking from this POV) A lot! Using a microphone picks up the sound of the amplifier much better, especially coupled with with room acoustics and the speaker cabinet. A lot of the sound of the amp comes from the speaker (or speakers), and guitarists in particular are picky about the speakers in their amps -- using the line out of the amp bypasses the speaker and yo just get the raw sound, whihc can be somewhat harsh and without a lot of presence. The same may go for basses also... Now, some musicians use modeling equipment, like the PODxt series, which do a fairly decent job of emulating amp/speaker/microphone combinations and you can use those direct into the board (although experience has shown it still isn't as good as a real amp -- I use one myself, and bypass the cabinet/mike emulation). You mean an omnidirectional versus cardioid? Miking drums is an art itself, and unless you are in a large hall or recording, miking the drums is not usually necessary. There are customized kits for miking drums, and they have specialized mikes for the kick, snare, etc. You'll just have to experiment with the mikes you have if you really want to use them for getting the drum into the PA. Two dynamic mikes placed up high over the left and right of the kit is a start... Canon input? Jack input? Usually, the mixer will have a microphone (low-level --> mike pre-amp, this is usually a three-prong XLR) and a line-level input (1/4" jack). Some mixers may have two mike inputs, one is balanced (XLR) and one is unbalanced. You really need to refer to your mixer documentation for the details. Some mixers also have inserts, which can be used for external processers, like perhaps a compressor for vocals. I'd get a better soundcard... I recently recorded several bands live using two dynamic mikes placed to the left and right and somewhat behind the audience, going into a small pre-amp and then into a dedicated DAT deck. We miked everything (including the drums) to ensure we got a good mix out of the PA, and the recording came out *fantastic* -- far better than what our soundperson had gotten recording directly from the mixer. I am taking the DAT digital out and then transferring to the hard drive via Ardour, for editing and then through Jamin for pre-mastering. Depends on what you have on-hand for recording. I tend to record everything flat and tweak it in post. Also depends on what you've got on hand. Does SBLIve support 48kHz recording? You can do it live, but if you want a studio recording, you will want to go with multi-track recording (using Ardour). -- Brett ----------- Programmer by day, Guitarist by Night http://www.chapelperilous.net http://www.alhazred.com http://www.revelmoon.com

Lee Revell wrote: That's just rude -- and I use Marshalls myself. -- Brett -- Programmer by Day, Guitarist by Night http://www.chapelperilous.net http://www.alhazred.com http://www.revelmoon.com

On Wed, 2005-07-06 at 00:47 +0200, Arnold Krille wrote: Yup, and depending on the sound system the bassist is likely to get a much better sound going direct. It all depends how much gear you like to haul around... Lee

Last Wednesday 06 July 2005 00:57, Brett McCoy was like: It's not that simple. 1) Marshalls don't turn down that well, even if you have one of those half-power switches on the back you can still saturate small venues without really trying. And some people can only afford one amp. If you're the engineer you're going to have to deal with whatever random equipment combination they throw at you. 2) Everybody does it. This phenomenon is not isolated to lead guitarists. For some reason, what is obvious to anyone standing in the hall is not obvious when you're holding a plugged in instrument. In many venues, the right volume for the mix is too quiet for the player. Finding players who don't sneak up their on-stage sound while the engineer isn't looking is a rare treat. Good monitoring can help ~(again, you need everything going through the desk to achieve this) 3) The drummer always plays the gig at twice the velocity and volume of the soundcheck. 4) Of course it'll sound completely different once you've got an audience in there. ;p (seriously though, a good audience runs at around 100dB) cheers, tim hall http://glastonburymusic.org.uk

Frank smith wrote: Yeah, and a 100 watt head needs to be turned up quite a bit to drive two 4x12 cabinets... for smaller venues, using just a single 4x12 is going to be adequate (usually at about 4 or 5 you will get that classic Marshall crunch). A smaller combo (50 watts) starts really crunching around 2 or 3... unless you have a dual-channel lead models like the JCM800 or higher, and you can have a nice clean sound at a good volume also. Of course, this is for the tube amps... the solid state *shudder* Marshalls don't require to be turned up as much before they start crunching. -- Brett -- -- Brett ----------- Programmer by day, Guitarist by Night http://www.chapelperilous.net http://www.alhazred.com http://www.revelmoon.com

Lee Revell wrote: man, i've *always* wanted to do that! mmmm, livin life!!! shayne

Timothy Alan Gorman wrote: As a sound man in previous life, I had several fixes for this....all which were also considered "rude" by the talent. :) And additionally as a guitar player myself (100w Boogie, 60w Music Man) it is also absolutely unneccesary with the advent of power soaks, etc. Both ignorant AND rude! :) R~

On Tue, 2005-07-05 at 22:51 +0200, Frode Haugsgjerd wrote: This may no longer be the case with a recent JACK and ALSA, but yes, due to the design of the hardware, much of the multichannel functionality of this card is only available at 48KHz. Lee

On Tue, 2005-07-05 at 22:43 +0200, Frode Haugsgjerd wrote: It's not the shielding which makes balanced connections so good. The idea of the balanced connection is simple and brilliant. The signal is fed through the cable both in correct phase and reversed phase. The idea is that when receiving the signal, the reversed phase is corrected, which then reverses the phase on any noise. When the signals are combined, the noise in the two signals cancel themselves. Simply put: balanced connections are a huge gift to us. Use them anywhere you can. -- Sampo Savolainen <v2(a)iki.fi>

Hi all! I really need to thank you all for the precious infos! You've been so nice:) By the way, canon = XLR, panoramic = omnidirectional and "icecream" = cardioid / Shure-like. I didn't know the proper english words:) Thanks again!!!!!!!:))))))))))) Carotinho ___________________________________ Yahoo! Mail: gratis 1GB per i messaggi e allegati da 10MB http://mail.yahoo.it

On Mon, Jul 04, 2005 at 11:02:24AM +0200, Thorsten Wilms wrote, in response to Steve D's musings about possibly collaborating with someone by trying to create some music using someone else's audio file--specifically a drum/percussion track: --- --- --- Hello Thorsten-- I downloaded the re-uploaded file of "This and That" (the one whose data was not corrupted), and worked on it for about 2 days, off and on. I added various harmony and melodic stuff until I ran out of ideas, which was about halfway through the piece. The original "breakbeats" file (as you called it) is about 6 minutes 30 seconds long, and my version chopped it roughly in half, to about 3 and a quarter minutes. If you or anyone cares to hear the results, the files are here: Thorsten Wilms, This and That (original file): http://www.xscd.com/pub/music/ogg/thorsten-wilms_this_and_that.ogg Thorsten Wilms and Steve Doonan, This and That (the version with my additions): http://www.xscd.com/pub/music/ogg/thorsten-wilms-and-steve-doonan_this_and_… -sd -- ---------------------------------------------------------------- "The trouble with leaving a home is that one never entirely does so. Pieces, shreds of ourselves are left behind, fluttering from the fenceposts, flapping in the breeze." ----------------------------------------------------------------

On Thu, Jul 07, 2005 at 08:49:32AM +0200, Thorsten Wilms wrote: --- --- Sure, Thorsten-- I uploaded all the individual tracks to: http://www.xscd.com/pub/music/ogg/this-and-that_separate-tracks/ Yes, I recorded everything live as digital-audio this time. However, sometime in the future I hope to record everything as MIDI first (using Muse or RoseGarden4 probably), for editing purposes (it's a pain to re-record digital-audio if one makes a mistake ;-) Please be aware that each separate track is padded with silence from the beginning of the piece up to the point at which the individual track makes an entry into the mix. Therefore, if you download a track from the above URL and can't hear it (at first), you will have to "fast-forward" to the approximate time in the piece that the part makes sound. This is easy to do if you open the file in Rezound, Audacity, Sweep or Ardour and look at the waveform of the file. --- --- Notes for anyone who may be interested--(and listening to Dave Phillips's "Talkin' 'bout the Weather" and "Lazy Moon" (for the hundredth time), Spamatica's "Norma" and Tim Hall's "Samsara" as I type ;-) I imported Thorsten's breakbeats file into Audacity. I then recorded my additions each into a separate stereo track in Audacity using my outboard gear, listed here: http://musicians.opensrc.org/index.php?page=StephenDoonan I added a few fade-ins and fade-outs to individual tracks, then padded each track with silence from the beginning of the recorded audio back to the beginning of the piece. I did this so that when I later exported the individual tracks, their relationship to each other in time would be preserved. Otherwise, when I later imported each file into some other program, each would begin at zero and all the parts would sound at the same time, rather than in sequence. I exported each track as a .wav file, then quit Audacity and launched Jamin and Ardour (I'm becoming very fond of both!). I routed all the tracks to Ardour's master outs (left and right), and then routed those two master outs to Jamin. I created a new stereo track in Ardour and routed Jamin's right and left outs to that Ardour track, as well as simultaneously to two ALSA PCM playback outputs, so that I could play all the tracks and fiddle with the mix and with Jamin's controls-- --- --- note: *thank you,* Ron Parker, for offering your excellent information, advice and tutorials about mastering on the 'net! http://www.djcj.org/LAU/quicktoots/toots/Loudness/ http://jamin.sourceforge.net/en/tutorial.html [among others] --- --- --when I was done playing with track volumes and Jamin's controls, I record-enabled the new empty stereo track in Ardour, clicked the master Record Mode button and then the Play button to get the tracks rolling. Ardour fed it's output to Jamin, and Jamin fed its altered result back to Ardour where it was recorded onto the new track. I then exported that individual stereo track from Ardour to a .wav file and encoded it into OGG at the command line with oggenc, tagged it using the "File Info" function of xmms (which allows one to edit OGG text tags and save the edited tags with the file), then uploaded the .ogg version to my webspace for anyone to hear. -sd -- ---------------------------------------------------------------- History from a 10 year old: "Karl Marx was one of the Marx Brothers. The other three were in the movies. Karl made speeches and started revolutions. Someone in the family had to have a job, I guess." ----------------------------------------------------------------

Arnold Krille wrote: Now thats a nice idea! Having just done the opposite!! Just getting my head round Jammin with Ardour. It sounds quite a powerfull tool, crashed a few times on my Fervent system. I'm mastering this song at: www.web-links.net/ogg and will upload the mastered version, and hopefully see if anyone elsehas mastered it. Cheers Bob -- F R Smith Technical Admin http://www.Rokpacardiff.com

Hi, On 7/7/05, Steve D <groups(a)xscd.com> wrote: Think of jack like the back of your equipment with all the plugs. Now get some cables and connect them... And don't think your soundcard is something special, its just another "app" sending and receiving audio in the jack-world. Arnold -- Wenn man mit Raubkopien Bands wie Brosis oder Britney Spears wirklich verhindern könnte, würde ich mir noch heute einen Stapel Brenner und einen Sack Rohlinge kaufen.

On Thursday 07 July 2005 15:39, Steve D wrote: Wow, well done Steve, excellent remix. Good overall volume saturation level too :-) Both added to http://opensrc.org/index.php?page=RadIO --markc

On Thu, Jul 07, 2005 at 10:50:40AM +0100, james(a)dis-dot-dat.net wrote: :) Just don't move and twiddle drums endlessly ;-) Get some drumloop (or create one yourself) and create samples from it starting on the 2nd, 3rd ... quarter and on 'and' positions after 2nd or 3rd quarter. Play them from a keyboard, experiment with transposing them, using the same sample pitched differently. If you want to program a drumloop to be sampled like above, try to make it funky (1/16 pulse), with a much slower tempo as the final one. Transposition and/or time-stretching makes for more interesting results. For programming breakbeats directly, think about the results of triggering drumloop parts on varying 1/8 note postions. Program velocity and perhaps micro-timing accordingly. Choose a beat and don't put any snare or bass drum on it, like playing around the 4. Or use the bass drum instead of the snare and the other way around for part of the drumloop. Hope that helps! --- Thorsten Wilms

On Thu, Jul 07, 2005 at 04:06:55PM +0100, james(a)dis-dot-dat.net wrote: Doesn't sound like you could learn much about breakbeats from me ;-) Nice tracks. Only one suggestion: try to layer beats, use 2 pairs of snare and kick. --- Thorsten Wilms

On Thu, 28 Jul, 2005 at 12:31PM +0200, Burkhard Woelfel spake thus: I like this idea. I can't help but hum and beatbox my way through imaginary music, or even along with what I'm listening to, so this would probably work OK for me. When I wrote ATT, I'd spent all morning humming the bass and beatboxing the beat, but I never thought of trying to translate from that into the music in such a pure way. I actually sat there doing it in slow motion and trying to work out what I was actually doing. Which all seems strange, because I can work up a complex beat with my mouth, but have trouble knowing exactly what it's made of. Oh, and I'm being immodest calling what I do betaboxing - it's more like rhythmical salivation, but the rhythm's there. -- "I'd crawl over an acre of 'Visual This++' and 'Integrated Development That' to get to gcc, Emacs, and gdb. Thank you." (By Vance Petree, Virginia Power)

Hi Steve and Thorsten, On Thursday 07 Jul 2005 07:39, Steve D wrote: <...> This isn't my kind of music... but this is really great! :) I've been listening to this (and the other great pieces that have been posted recently) a lot over the last few days and it's just really great. I especially like the the energetic keyboard piece that Steve added at around 1:40, is it a softsynth or an external one? Nevermind though, it's probably the performance that makes it sound so nice together with Thorstens fantastic breakbeats! Cutting the song in half was in my mind musically correct, I can listen to it over and over! Regards, Robert -- http://spamatica.se/musicsite/