Joseph M. Gaffney wrote: What's the difference? Couldn't I just keep FC5 and not go to FC6, for example. Or, does CentOS have an easy upgrade path? Is there any downside to using CentOS (except for the latest and greatest) for audio and video work? Do you use it? If so, why and what's your experience? brad

Joseph M. Gaffney wrote: Now I remember, it's an enterprise version based on RHEL. However, I don't know how much of Fedora is in RHEL. RHEL was started years before Fedora. I imagine there is some, but doesn't Redhat pick and choose what to put in. Besides, it's built for the enterprise, and stability as you say. As their site says: CentOS-4 is a freely distributable OS built from the source at: ftp://ftp.redhat.com/pub/redhat/linux/enterprise/4/en/os/i386/SRPMS To me, that sounds like it would be a couple of steps back from FC. What do other use and are you happy with the upgrades?

On Wednesday 15 November 2006 02:54, david was like: The AGNULA site that you have listed above contains no current or useful information about DeMuDi. It is really just a placeholder. http://demudi.agnula.org is the useful address. Let me know if there is anything that is not clear. We are happy to discuss any Debian based music system via the AGNULA users mailing list <users(a)lists.agnula.org> including A/DeMuDi, 64Studio, pure Debian, Musix, UbuntuStudio and others, roughly in order of preference. It's a friendly, low volume list for distro-specific enquiries. -- cheers, tim hall http://glastonburymusic.org.uk/tim We are the people We've been waiting for.

On Tue, Nov 14, 2006 at 10:02:20PM -0500, Dave Robillard wrote: Same here. Coming from Debian it's hard to see what all the upgrading fuss is about. Best, Chris. ------------------- chris(a)mccormick.cx http://mccormick.cx

On 11/15/06, Chris McCormick <chris(a)mccormick.cx> wrote: same as a Mandriva user. Just urpmi --auto-select after you change to the new mirrors or never change mirrors and run testing. Similar for debian sarge/potato etc changes. I've never had a problem with doing this with mandriva even changing through many kde versions etc. Loki

I use Fedora/Planet CCRMA in the studio. Being a long-time RedHat user, I know upgrades are fraught with peril. I partition my system in such a way that I can boot multiple versions of Fedora (I currently have 3), and have a minimal home directory that I replicate to each instance, so any Gnome settings that might change from one version to another don't propogate in a way that precludes my dropping back to an older version. Is this a pain? Not for me, I find it pretty flexible. It's been a great butt-saver for me, too. A while back, I installed whatever the latest FC/PC release was, and had awful performance in Jack and Ardour. This was 2 days before I had someone coming in from out of state to do some recording. I trouble-shot as long as I could without success, and a few hours before the session, threw in the towel and booted to the previous version, which had been running rock-solid for me. The session went without a hitch, and afterwards, it took me about 15 minutes to resolve the issue, which as I recall had something to do with IRQs. I wouldn't do it any other way, even if I was using a distribution that was a lot easier to upgrade, because Murphy's always looking over my shoulder, and an upgrade that had always just worked is sure to fail at the most inopportune time. -- ====================================================================== Joe Hartley - UNIX/network Consultant - jh(a)brainiac.com Without deviation from the norm, "progress" is not possible. - FZappa

I still am running FC2 on my DAW. I have upgraded my main office computer nearly every other fedora release (I figure that the even releases will be better, much like the Star Trek movies) and I haven't had much breakage (i.e. by using the upgrade option in the fedora CD-roms). I use Planet CCRMA for my DAW and find that everything (on FC2) is running perfectly, so I don't see any real reason to want to break...I mean upgrade the OS. Once I build out a 64-bit machine I will install the latest and greatest... Incidentally, I just installed FC6 on another (non-music) machine and was happy to see that they are no longer using uptodate. They are using pup I believe, which can be set to use other yum repos. And, the distro's fedora extras included Jack, Rosegarden and other music apps. -Joe On Tue, 2006-11-14 at 19:17 -0800, Brad Fuller wrote:

david wrote: Yeah... kernels are no problem for me, either. It's complete distros that's the problem. I remember one time I had instructions on how to upgrade from FC2 to FC3 (or some lower numbered Fedora distro). I think you were to change your repos to point to the next distro. I did that, but it never worked well. Has anyone upgraded FC from the repos? How well did it work? Joe just mentioned he has upgraded using the CDROMs, but it never worked well for me. There was always something that was hanging around that never got updated. What is the consensus of upgrading FC from the CDROMs? Has anyone else upgraded successfully this way? brad

On Wed, 2006-11-15 at 09:43 +0000, tim hall wrote: I doubt they'll fix it. Fedora is first and foremost a test bed for Red Hat Enterprise Linux. User needs are secondary to those of Red Hat. Lee

Mark Knecht wrote: Do you have any problems getting the latest audio apps? (that is, not compiling, but already packaged) brad

On 11/14/06, Brad Fuller <brad(a)sonaural.com> wrote: No problems with that. There is now a maintained 'proaudio' overlay that gives access to pretty much everything I know about. (No promises!) you can find out more about the overlay here: http://proaudio.tuxfamily.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page Please note that Gentoo is a source release distro. Eventually you build *everything* on your system from source code. This means that to initially install the system you starting by downloading a small set of precomiled packages to get the machine to boot and then you compile most everything (in my case Xorg, Gnome, Firefox) you want to run. It's a lot of work but it's been very stable for me. Good luck, Mark

My, aren't you opinionated about how I should spend my time. On 11/15/06, Dubphil <dubphil(a)free.fr> wrote: I don't care actually. I use both firefox & firefox-bin for different things. (Java issues mostly) Both are on my system. I've been running Jack at 64/2 under Gnome for probably 6-12 months without an xrun. How much better might you suggest it could get? If your machine cannot run jack at 64/2 running Gnome then possibly there is something you need to improve. I have no problems here running Gnome, KDE, fluxbox or fvwm. All work great. Jack works great. True, but since Brad was asking about other distros I felt it relavant to talk about what it's *really* like to get Gentoo up and running the first time. If he was to try it out, having been a long-time Fedora Core user, and if he was unprepared for the initial time sink to get it really working, then he might be disappointed. I do agree that it's reasonable to build something light like fluxbox as an initial X environment. If that's all you want then that's all you have to build. That way the machine is usable prior to building the whole Gnome type monster environment. However my experience says there is no reason to worry about Gnome these days if that's an environment you want to run. Works great here. If it's done in your sleep then how do you make choices about what to install? I do my upgrades during the day in a background screen session while I'm using my Gentoo box. Typically I update things here about once a week but hold off large upgrades, like Gnome-2.14 to 2.16 until a weekend when I'm not that busy. Anyway, Gentoo is about choice. We all get to choose what works best for us. No reason for you to take such a strident position telling me that I shouldn't do something. The world is fine no matter which way someone does all this stuff. - Mark

on a single-core 2ghz cpu, dwm takes about 2 seconds to compile. pd, muttng, irssi, postfix, alsa each take about 30 seconds to a minute. the biggest thing is proably X (20 mins or so) and firefox (20 mins or so). theres no reason you cant have a fully working gentoo installed and configged from source in an hour. less on a dual-core.. C++ with lots of templates takes forever to compile. this includes patchage/ingen, ardour, kde/gnome, etc.. ardour clocks in at around 30 minutes of compiling..

Brad Fuller wrote: Gentoo doesn't really work like that. You can update any part of the system you want, whenever you want to (provided dependents build ok). My box is rather old and slow these days (hence I routinely run large latency), but there's no reason why not - provided you have all the necessary RT patches, realtime privileges etc setup properly. Gentoo takes care of merging the dependents into the system (it's rather similar to apt-get etc). Of course there are sometimes problems, but you'll usually find the answer on the forums. I'd be happy to take this off list since this is getting a little Gentoo specific. Invite others :) R

Le 15 Nov à 07:30, Brad Fuller ecrivait: Hi, I take permission to respond to share antother experience with gentoo :). If you absolutely don't know gentoo, with a barely solid knowledge of a linux system, I would say you'd need more or less one day to get a working system (with ardour and MuSE, and other smaller audio apps). You need to know how to compile a kernel (and patch it for real time of course). Gentoo docs are really well written, and you need to read them when installing, especially the handbook. http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/?catid=install (there are many translations). Install the pro-audio overlay, as it was said, before installing any audio software or you'll need to recompile mostly all of them. http://proaudio.tuxfamily.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page Absolutely no problem when upgrading from 2006.0 to 2006.1, there was just a trick to get rezound working again. Someone indicated me that trick here, in less than a hour if I remember well :). Yes. I have real time without xrun while compiling GCC, which last for more than half an hour, like I did yesterday. But it's the same with other very large source codes like QT or X. I check for updates everyday, and I'm a very happy gentoo user after some years with Debian. Portage with the emerge tool manages very well dependencies, I never had to look for librairies or install libraries separately before installing something. Instead of apt-get install <something>, you just emerge <something> and it works quite the same way. You may want to consider system tools like eix, and then udept, when you're confortable with a Gentoo system, for a very precise dependencies, and reverse dependencies, management. Cheers, Y.

On Wed, Nov 15, 2006 at 01:35:00PM -0800, Mark Knecht wrote: The 2006.1 installer CDs have gcc 4.1. -PW -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com

Brad Fuller wrote: Hi Anyone tried any of the graphic binary installs of gentoo like kororaa (http://kororaa.org)? I was really tempted to try gentoo again, but the install procedure has made me crazy twice before so I'd rather avoid that! The proaudio overlay seems fantastic! Best Ketil

Dubphil wrote: Great! Please report back! Ketil

On 11/16/06, Brad Fuller &lt;brad(a)sonaural.com&gt; wrote: I tried it, 6.06, but found it slow and unstable (for some reason they used gcc-4.0.1 to build the whole system, a version which even in gentoo was masked (as very unstable)). It is very user-friendly though.

On Thursday 16 November 2006 16:28, Brad Fuller wrote: Yes. At least Kubuntu. On my 2 machines, that's along with FC1,2,3,4, and 5, Slackware 10.0, Debian Sarge, Debian Etch, and last but not least Gentoo. Nigel. Oh yes. I think that other OS is lying about on a couple of partitions, in the form of XP, and ME, but virtually unused apart from getting 3rd party security updates from time to time.

On Thursday 16 November 2006 18:47, Brad Fuller wrote: In many ways I'm not suitably qualified to answer this. I started off in computers, being quite old in 2003 with Win 98, then XP. Got some some music apps, mainly demos, as I wanted to try making music. I bought a licence for Making Waves (a step sequencer) which I've had a lot of fun with. The same year (2003) I ventured into Linux with an FC1 cover disk from Linux Format mag. I couldn't get any sounds out of it, until a short time later I found a link to planetccrma. I suppose I've become a bit biased, as there were many music apps available from planetccrma. As I've said I wanted to make music, but seem to have been distracted by wanting to try different disros, and over the last 3 years have spent more time trying them than making any music, apart from a couple of uploads of demos to the Gungirl site. Regarding Slackware, I don't know what the present situation is for music apps from a repo. Since Luke Yelavich found that he could no longer continue the audioslack site, and I did see that someone else was willing to continue with it, but havn't had Slackware booted up for a while, so don't know where this stands at the moment, but of course there's no problem installing the source files for music apps on Slackware. I looked on the link that was posted for Gentoo's proaudio thisafternoon, and there appear to be many music apps available for Gentoo. Mark Knecht used to use Fedora, and planetccrma, but has moved on to using Gentoo, and seems to very happy with the music apps provided , and that you don't have to keep upgrading the distro to a newer version, as you have to with others. Debian has loads of music apps available from the repos, and I've just done some updates on Kubuntu, then looked on synaptic for music apps. There don't seem to be as many music apps available on "Multimedia (universe)" as there are on planetccrma, but you can always install the music apps you want from the source files. Even on FC there are music apps that arn't available from planetccrma. I think of Mhwaveedit, https://gna.org/projects/mhwaveedit/ . To build it you need to have libsamplerate-devel, and libsndfile-devel installed, and to playback .mp3's you need to have lame installed, which is obtainable from Dag's repo or others. As to your question as to which distro do you prefer for music apps. I just think that this is a bit of a personal preference. If you can produce music on the distro of your choice, and it sounds ok, then that is ok with me. I suppose the only complaint that I, personally have, is that we only have only one real synth (ZynAddSubFx) provided by Paul Nasca. There are modular synths, but perhaps not so easy to work with. Looking back at Windows, there are loads of synths available. and yes, I know you have to pay for them. I only have the demos on my XP install, but there are so many synths with different sounds. It would be so nice if someone could write us another synth, different to ZynAddSubFx, but not in competition with it. Just another synth, with different sounds. Just my 2¢ worth. Take it as you will. Nigel.

On Thursday 16 November 2006 21:21, Paul Winkler wrote: Hi Paul. This sort of says it all really. It doesn't matter which distro you use, neither does it matter which music apps you use, as long as you get the results that you want. It all comes down to personal preference, and who can argue with that, after all, it's the music that matters. Nigel.

On Thursday 16 November 2006 22:15, Ernie Dulanowsky wrote: Sorry I'd neglected to include Whysynth, Sineshaper, and Hexter DSSI plugins, which all work really well. Nigel.