On Sat, 19 Jan 2013 17:14:21 +0100, John Murphy <rosegardener(a)freeode.co.uk> wrote: I agree. The essence of it is, that YouTube is nearly useless for Germans, because most contend isn't available regarding to GEMA issues. OTOH you had to pay a fixed rate to the GEZ, if you had a computer, even if it's a C64, unable to play videos. Nowadays you have to pay a successor of the GEZ, if you've got an abode, even if you don't own any gear to watch computer videos, radio or television. You automatically pay GEMA for empty tapes, CDs etc. in Gemany. OTOH, artists on tour might want to know, that in some states of the USA and Australia they won't kill you, but the punishment is very hard, if you own weed and for foreigners it's not allowed anymore in the Netherlands, or perhaps not in all regions of the Netherlands. It's not completely OT, less punishment doesn't mean that they won't disassemble your tour bus, amps etc. ;).

I'm not a lawyer. If I translated your mail correctly and as far as I know you're right. There's another issue. I want to make Internet radio with a friend and I said that we run into an issue, the GEMA. He insists on, that if other friends of him, who are members of the GEMA, allow us to play their music for free, we won't get trouble with the GEMA, but IMO he's mistaken. It doesn't matter if e.g. Wino allows him to play Saint Vitus songs, if he should be member of the GEMA. I asked the friend to talk with him and others, if they are GEMA members. It's much more problematic, if we want to play music from people none of us does know, e.g. MC5, Radio Birdman. If there's a sign of the GEMA on the recordings, just a letter of some band member or successor with a few words, that we are allowed to play their music for free, AFAIK isn't legally valid. If they should have a contract with the GEMA, the GEMA gets money, if the artists get money ;). We are from the generation DIY, when bands printed on their vinyl that you should steal it, if the record does cost more than the price the band does recommend. You might know old Crass records. He's confusing the policy of European Punk Rock of the 80s, with people also from our age who play Doom and other music today, but are members of the GEMA. I don't have that much friends from the music business, the friend has got a lot of friends. Friendship doesn't make contracts null and void. I don't know who is member of the GEMA and who isn't, but I'm sure a lot of the music we want to play is from GEMA members and most of those members aren't aware about the contracts they signed. If I should be mistaken, it would be nice, then there might be a new Internet radio available next week ;), but I guess I'm right. Regards, Ralf

On Sat, 19 Jan 2013 22:31:06 +0100, Robin Gloster <robin(a)loc-com.de> wrote: Danke für die Bestätigung Robin, I guess it's to risky to make Internet radio with GEMA music. We once made Bürgerfunk. Since I was a known audio engineer here and I was payed to do audio engineering for other people making Bürgerfunk, we had some privileges other people did not have. However, all people making Bürgerfunk don't need to take care about the GEMA. We still could do Bürgerfunk and get money from the LfR, but I was thinking of making Internet radio, because we won't get money, but reach as much people as possible, who are interested in Rock music that isn't mainstream, but also not to unknown. We fall into euphoria when thinking about the possibility to make radio for the Internet, so I didn't thought about the GEMA. Some days later I was thinking of the GEMA and the friend was disappointed, still doesn't believe that the GEMA is an issue. The friends ezine, http://www.cosmiclava.com was established in 1999, so he now has many friends among the artists, you'll find the logo of the ezine on concert announcement posters of famous bands. But AFAIK agreements of the bands to play their music isn't valid, because they make a deal with the GEMA. The only thing we could do is to play GEMA free music, but I suspect that even a lot of 80s DIY European Punk Rock isn't free anymore. I wonder what would happen if we would play GEMA free records from the past, that today might be new released with GEMA. I don't know if there are records where this happened, but this might be a risk too. Btw. we won't get money, but we can't pay money to pay the GEMA and even if I could pay the GEMA, I will not do it. I never had to deal with the GEMA myself. I was working for audio and video production and audio gear development and manufacturing and even when I was payed as employee for Bürgefunk, I didn't work in the office, but maintained the audio equipment and helped to record radio program. So your experiences are bad and you and I we guess, we don't know, but this uncertainty, the need to ask a lawyer, for me is to risky. Regards, Ralf -- PS: linuxaudio.org often isn't reachable at the moment, at least the user list isn't available PPS: The binary Linux packages have got a big advantage compared to FreeBSD ports, I'm updating a FreeBSD install and the machine does compile for more than 24 hours now, it's still in progress.