11 Sep
2004
11 Sep
'04
3:20 p.m.
Hello,
I am trying to convert vinyl to CD. I am using Audacity for recording,
and am planning to use GWC (thanks for pointing me to it!) for
processing.
I have to "digitize" sound at 48k. There seems to be obvious distortion
at 44k1. This is probably because Intel ICH5 only uses 48k internally.
So I need to convert the sample rate to 44k1 separately. And to keep the
quality high...
Question 1. How do I do the conversion? Can't find it in Audacity. (I
did find the "High-quality sample rate converter" settings in
Preferences, but how do I get to use this converter?) Or perhaps there
is a tool better than Audacity for this purpose?
Question 2. Should I convert the rate before or after "cleaning" the
sound in GWC?
Yours, Mikhail Ramendik
Que
11 Sep
11 Sep
3:50 p.m.
--- Mikhail Ramendik <mr(a)ramendik.ru> wrote:
Hello,
I am trying to convert vinyl to CD. I am using
Audacity for recording,
and am planning to use GWC (thanks for pointing me
to it!) for
processing.
I have to "digitize" sound at 48k. There seems to be
obvious distortion
at 44k1. This is probably because Intel ICH5 only
uses 48k internally.
So I need to convert the sample rate to 44k1
separately. And to keep the
quality high...
Question 1. How do I do the conversion? Can't find
it in Audacity. (I
did find the "High-quality sample rate converter"
settings in
Preferences, but how do I get to use this
converter?) Or perhaps there
is a tool better than Audacity for this purpose?
If bit rate and filetype conversion:
sndfile-convert -pcm16 infile.aiff outfile.wav
If sample rate:
sndfile-resample -to 44100 input.wav output.wav
Do read the man pages or 'sndfile-resample --help' or
'sndfile-whatever --help' so you'll see all the
options.
ron
Question 2. Should I convert the rate before or
after "cleaning" the
sound in GWC?
Yours, Mikhail Ramendik
Que
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5:59 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Converting sample rate: failed...
R Parker wrote:
> I am trying to convert vinyl to CD. I am using
> Audacity for recording,
> and am planning to use GWC (thanks for pointing me
> to it!) for
> processing.
>
If sample rate:
sndfile-resample -to 44100 input.wav output.wav
Do read the man pages or 'sndfile-resample --help' or
'sndfile-whatever --help' so you'll see all the
options.
Thanks.
Actually I have failed, but this is probably not a software fault. The
48000 to 44100 conversion (with both "best sinc" and "ZOH"
interpolators) makes the sound *much* worse, the voice is distorted and
becomes "ringing".
I tend to blame vinyl noise for this. Serious denoising distorts the
sound too much so I don't do it. And when digitized noise is resampled
it probably makes the sound really bad.
Is there a way around this? I don't think so, but "just in case" I
decided to ask.
Yours, Mikhail Ramendik
ron
Question 2. Should I convert the rate before or
after "cleaning" the
sound in GWC?
Yours, Mikhail Ramendik
Que
_______________________________
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Shop for Back-to-School deals on Yahoo! Shopping.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/backtoschool
6:21 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Converting sample rate: failed...
On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 23:42:44 +0400
Mikhail Ramendik <mr(a)ramendik.ru> wrote:
Thanks.
Actually I have failed, but this is probably not a software fault. The
48000 to 44100 conversion (with both "best sinc" and "ZOH"
The ZOH converter should not be used for anything other than an
audio effect. You should also try SRC_SINC_MEDIUM_QUALITY and
SRC_SINC_FASTEST.
interpolators) makes the sound *much* worse, the voice
is distorted and
becomes "ringing".
Does it also ring before you do the sample rate conversion?
I tend to blame vinyl noise for this. Serious
denoising distorts the
sound too much so I don't do it.
The denoising is separate from the sample rate conversion. SRC should
not make it sound worse.
Erik
--
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
Erik de Castro Lopo nospam(a)mega-nerd.com (Yes it's valid)
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
"The growing and dangerous intrusion of this new technology,
threatens an entire industry's economic vitality and future
security." -- Jack Valenti (MPAA president) on the video
cassette recorder, 1982.
6:36 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Converting sample rate: failed...
Erik de Castro Lopo wrote:
OK, I'll try... but I don't have much hope.
No, it does not. The voice sounds all right despite the noise, before
the SRC. And after it the voice sounds crappy.
But it does :(
(I can put a WAV sample of several seconds, before and after conversion,
up on my Web site, if anybody would care to look at this strange effect)
Yours, Mikhail Ramendik
Actually I
have failed, but this is probably not a software fault. The
48000 to 44100 conversion (with both "best sinc" and "ZOH"
The ZOH converter should not be used for anything other than an
audio effect. You should also try SRC_SINC_MEDIUM_QUALITY and
SRC_SINC_FASTEST. interpolators)
makes the sound *much* worse, the voice is distorted and
becomes "ringing".
Does it also ring before you do the sample rate conversion? I tend to
blame vinyl noise for this. Serious denoising distorts the
sound too much so I don't do it.
The denoising is separate from the sample rate conversion. SRC should
not make it sound worse.
10:22 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Converting sample rate: failed...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 00:20:18 +0400
Mikhail Ramendik <mr(a)ramendik.ru> wrote:
But it does :(
(I can put a WAV sample of several seconds, before and after conversion,
up on my Web site, if anybody would care to look at this strange effect)
Yes, please do. Also tell us the command line / program you are
using to the conversion.
Erik
--
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
Erik de Castro Lopo nospam(a)mega-nerd.com (Yes it's valid)
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
"Python addresses true pseudocode's two major failings: that it
isn't standardized, and it isn't executable."
- Grant R. Griffin in comp.dsp
11:47 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Converting sample rate: failed...
Erik de Castro Lopo wrote:
I have put up a page at
http://www.ramendik.ru/sound/index.html
It has command lines and links to the results (and to the original, of
course).
This is an uncompress 25 second sample, so the files are rather large
(under 4 megs each, the original is over 4 megs). But the original and
one converted file will be enough, the converted ones don't differ all
that much.
The coice is that of the famous Russian singer, Chaliapin. Never mind
the Russian language - listen to the sound of the voice, especially from
6-7 seconds and up. The difference seems very serious to me.
Yours, Mikhail Ramendik
P.S. This is encoded from vinyl, and I have not done gwc cleaning
because, when it reaches good results, it seems to somewhat degrade the
sound as well. Manual declicking would probably do wonders but I don't
have the time...
(I can put a WAV sample of several seconds, before and after conversion,
up on my Web site, if anybody would care to look at this strange effect)
Yes, please do. Also tell us the command line / program you are
using to the conversion.
12 Sep
12 Sep
12:06 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Converting sample rate: failed...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 05:31:13 +0400
Mikhail Ramendik <mr(a)ramendik.ru> wrote:
I have put up a page at
http://www.ramendik.ru/sound/index.html
OK, looking at that now. A couple more questions :
0) what version of libsamplerate is it?
1) did you compile from source or get it from a distribution?
2) if you got it from a distro, which one?
Erik
--
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
Erik de Castro Lopo nospam(a)mega-nerd.com (Yes it's valid)
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
"Open source is an intellectual-property destroyer. I can't
imagine something that could be worse than this for the software
business and the intellectual-property business."
-- Jim Allchin, Microsoft
12:36 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Converting sample rate: failed...
Erik de Castro Lopo wrote:
0) what version of libsamplerate is it?
1) did you compile from source or get it from a distribution?
2) if you got it from a distro, which one?
0.0.15 from ASP9, derived from RH9.
Will try to get a new version and build an RPM with it.
Yours, Mikhail Ramendik
12:16 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Converting sample rate: failed...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 05:31:13 +0400
Mikhail Ramendik <mr(a)ramendik.ru> wrote:
Erik de Castro Lopo wrote:
I have put up a page at
http://www.ramendik.ru/sound/index.html
I've just used libsamplerate 0.1.1 to do the same conversion as you:
sndfile-resample -to 44100 -c 0 test.wav test-c0.wav
and I can't hear any problem with the sample rate conversion.
(I can put a WAV sample of several seconds, before and after conversion,
up on my Web site, if anybody would care to look at this strange effect)
Yes, please do. Also tell us the command line / program you are
using to the conversion. P.S. This is encoded from vinyl, and I have not done
gwc cleaning
because, when it reaches good results, it seems to somewhat degrade the
sound as well. Manual declicking would probably do wonders but I don't
have the time...
Well you are starting with a SERIOUSLY degraded source. I'm no
expert in noise removal, but with material that bad to start
with, I don't think there is much hope.
Erik
--
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
Erik de Castro Lopo nospam(a)mega-nerd.com (Yes it's valid)
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
When aiming for the common denominator, be prepared for the
occasional division by zero.
12:33 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Converting sample rate: failed...
Erik de Castro Lopo wrote:
Did you get my original, or just test with your own?
If you did get the original: soes it sound different from my
test-c0.wav?
I'm afraid this is so :(
Yours, Mikhail Ramendik
I have put up
a page at
http://www.ramendik.ru/sound/index.html
I've just used libsamplerate 0.1.1 to do the same conversion as you:
sndfile-resample -to 44100 -c 0 test.wav test-c0.wav
and I can't hear any problem with the sample rate conversion. P.S. This is
encoded from vinyl, and I have not done gwc cleaning
because, when it reaches good results, it seems to somewhat degrade the
sound as well. Manual declicking would probably do wonders but I don't
have the time...
Well you are starting with a SERIOUSLY degraded source. I'm no
expert in noise removal, but with material that bad to start
with, I don't think there is much hope.
1:07 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Converting sample rate: failed...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 06:17:13 +0400
Mikhail Ramendik <mr(a)ramendik.ru> wrote:
Did you get my original, or just test with your own?
I used your original file and then converted it at my end.
If you did get the original: soes it sound different
from my
test-c0.wav?
I also just downloaded that and it doesn't sound very different
from mine. Maybe I've got a tin ear, but I can't hear a whole
lot of difference between the original file, your conversion
using libsamplerate-0.0.15 and my conversion using
libsamplerate-0.1.1.
I've also done a comparison of the hexdumps of my conversion
and yours. There are differences, but nothing sufficient to
to be called :
interpolators) makes the sound *much* worse, the voice
is distorted and
becomes "ringing".
So, does your sound card actually support 44.1kHz audio out?
If not, ALSA may be doing a sample rate conversion from 44.1
back to 48kHz and it might be that conversion which is making
a mess of things. I know there have been some bugs in the
ALSA sample rate converter recently.
Erik
--
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
Erik de Castro Lopo nospam(a)mega-nerd.com (Yes it's valid)
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
"I ran it on my DeathStation 9000 and demons flew out of my nose." --Kaz
8:03 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Converting sample rate: failed...
Erik de Castro Lopo wrote:
Thanks - this might be the problem. I will check by playing the files
under Windows, and on another PC which likely does not have the 48k
resampling. Unfortunately I do not have a working CD player now.
BTW, does *your* card support 44.1k output, and perhaps even input? If
yes, what is that card? I'm now interested in getting one that supports
this stuff.
interpolators)
makes the sound *much* worse, the voice is distorted and
becomes "ringing".
So, does your sound card actually support 44.1kHz audio out?
If not, ALSA may be doing a sample rate conversion from 44.1
back to 48kHz and it might be that conversion which is making
a mess of things. I know there have been some bugs in the
ALSA sample rate converter recently.
8:33 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Converting sample rate: failed...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:46:57 +0400
Mikhail Ramendik <mr(a)ramendik.ru> wrote:
BTW, does *your* card support 44.1k output, and
perhaps even input?
Yes.
If
yes, what is that card? I'm now interested in getting one that supports
this stuff.
Terratec DMX6Fire. Its relatively high end.
Erik
--
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
Erik de Castro Lopo nospam(a)mega-nerd.com (Yes it's valid)
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
"I have long argued that the entertainment industry doesn't want
people to have computers. Computers give users too much capability,
too much flexibility, too much freedom. The entertainment industry
wants users to sit back and consume things. They are trying to
turn a computer into an Internet Entertainment Platform, along the
lines of a television or VCR. This bill is a large step in that
direction." -- Bruce Schneier
12:35 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Converting sample rate: failed...
Erik de Castro Lopo wrote:
As my system only has libsamplerate 0.0.15, this may be very
interesting. I'll try with a new libsamplerate.
Yours, Mikhail Ramendik
I have put up
a page at
http://www.ramendik.ru/sound/index.html
I've just used libsamplerate 0.1.1 to do the same conversion as you:
sndfile-resample -to 44100 -c 0 test.wav test-c0.wav
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participants (3)
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Mikhail Ramendik -
R Parker