23 Apr
2010
23 Apr
'10
7:16 p.m.
So I'm trying to burn this masterpeice to a CD.
$ crdao write tofile.toc
... ok here we go. It works, but then when I try to read the disk back, i get tons of CRC
errors.
"5 Q sub-channels with CRC errors" .. etc etc.
Someone On The Internet (tm) said thusly:
http://linux.derkeiler.com/Mailing-Lists/Debian/2005-04/1370.html
OK, so I try to write at a lower speed.
$ cdrdao write --speed 4 tofile.toc
Starting write at speed 8...
Pausing 10 seconds - hit CTRL-C to abort.
No no no no, I said speed 4!
$ cdrdao write --speed 2 tofile.toc
Starting write at speed 8...
Pausing 10 seconds - hit CTRL-C to abort.
Arrgggh...
$ cdrdao write --speed 1 tofile.toc
Starting write at speed 8...
Pausing 10 seconds - hit CTRL-C to abort.
Hey, cdrdao, are you even listening to me!??
So, two questions:
1) Is there any reason to burn an audio CD at a speed < maximum, or is this the
dreaded digital voodoo?
2) Why is cdrdao refusing to do what I tell it to do?
Thanks, all.
-ken
23 Apr
23 Apr
8:25 p.m.
On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 02:14:09PM -0700, Ken Restivo wrote:
OK, so I try to write at a lower speed.
$ cdrdao write --speed 4 tofile.toc
Starting write at speed 8...
Pausing 10 seconds - hit CTRL-C to abort.
No no no no, I said speed 4!
$ cdrdao write --speed 2 tofile.toc
Starting write at speed 8...
Pausing 10 seconds - hit CTRL-C to abort.
Arrgggh...
$ cdrdao write --speed 1 tofile.toc
Starting write at speed 8...
Pausing 10 seconds - hit CTRL-C to abort.
Hey, cdrdao, are you even listening to me!??
Oh nice, so it was not my computer :) It seems it is not limited to
cdrdao, I noticed recently that growisofs (the tool that I use to write
my DVDs) also ignores the -speed=X setting. If I recall correctly, it
was previously working as expected with the same drive...
8:26 p.m.
On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 02:14:09PM -0700, Ken Restivo wrote:
Hey, cdrdao, are you even listening to me!??
So, two questions:
1) Is there any reason to burn an audio CD at a speed < maximum, or is this the
dreaded digital voodoo?
2) Why is cdrdao refusing to do what I tell it to do?
AFAIK there's no voodoo about this (yet). It probably depends on
your system if it can support the highest speed of your drive
(scheduling latencies, disk read speed, etc.).
OTOH, speed 8 is already quite slow, and it may well be the
lowest one supported by your drive (just guessing this).
If results at that speed are not as expected, you may have
to select a different driver, see man cdrdao. In my limited
experience and IIRC the generic-mmc didn't work for me, and
I had to use generic-mmc-raw. YMMV.
Ciao,
--
FA
O tu, che porte, correndo si ?
E guerra e morte !
9:09 p.m.
OTOH, speed 8 is already quite slow, and it may well
be the
lowest one supported by your drive (just guessing this).
Sort of off topic ... but I had some older 2x DVD-RW discs that I
tried to burn on my current system. No way. I tossed the discs, my
assumption being that the drive could not go slow enough for the disc.
If I recall, I tired all the various speed= commands with growisofs,
cdrdao, etc. They would report back 8 or 4x (don't recall). I find it
somewhat odd that a drive will not slow down and am wondering if that
is due to the linux drivers or the actual drives. I'm not completely
sure, but I'm sure that the drives used to work with the dvds. Finding
better things to do with my time, I did toss the discs ... but it's a
wonderment.
--
**** Listen to my CD at http://www.mellowood.ca/music/cedars ****
Bob van der Poel ** Wynndel, British Columbia, CANADA **
EMAIL: bob(a)mellowood.ca
WWW: http://www.mellowood.ca
10:06 p.m.
On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 04:09:57PM -0700, Bob van der Poel wrote:
It's very probably not a matter of slowing down the rotation
of the disk - it has to work at normal read speeds anyway.
The limiting factor could well be the minimum power at which
the write laser can operate - lower write speed requires less
power.
Ciao,
--
FA
O tu, che porte, correndo si ?
E guerra e morte !
OTOH, speed 8
is already quite slow, and it may well be the
lowest one supported by your drive (just guessing this).
Sort of off topic ... but I had some older 2x DVD-RW discs that I
tried to burn on my current system. No way. I tossed the discs, my
assumption being that the drive could not go slow enough for the disc.
If I recall, I tired all the various speed= commands with growisofs,
cdrdao, etc. They would report back 8 or 4x (don't recall). I find it
somewhat odd that a drive will not slow down and am wondering if that
is due to the linux drivers or the actual drives.
11:29 p.m.
On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 02:07:48AM +0200, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 04:09:57PM -0700, Bob van der
Poel wrote:
It's very probably not a matter of slowing down the rotation
of the disk - it has to work at normal read speeds anyway.
The limiting factor could well be the minimum power at which
the write laser can operate - lower write speed requires less
power.
Makes sense; next time I'll try it with speed > 8 and see if it obeys.
But that raises the other question: does it even make sense to burn an audio CD at <
maximum anyway? Are there errors introduced by burning RedBook CD's at higher speeds?
-ken
OTOH,
speed 8 is already quite slow, and it may well be the
lowest one supported by your drive (just guessing this).
Sort of off topic ... but I had some older 2x DVD-RW discs that I
tried to burn on my current system. No way. I tossed the discs, my
assumption being that the drive could not go slow enough for the disc.
If I recall, I tired all the various speed= commands with growisofs,
cdrdao, etc. They would report back 8 or 4x (don't recall). I find it
somewhat odd that a drive will not slow down and am wondering if that
is due to the linux drivers or the actual drives.
24 Apr
24 Apr
12:02 a.m.
On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 06:27:17PM -0700, Ken Restivo wrote:
But that raises the other question: does it even make
sense to burn an audio CD at < maximum anyway? Are there errors introduced by burning
RedBook CD's at higher speeds?
You'll have to try it. Since write speed is a marketing
point the official value can't be trusted. Half that
speed is probably reliable. For the rest, AFAIK, it's
a matter of your system being able to provide the data
in time. There's some buffering the drive, but that
can only handle so much delay.
Ciao,
--
FA
O tu, che porte, correndo si ?
E guerra e morte !
1:29 a.m.
On 04/23/2010 07:03 PM, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
You'll have to try it. Since write speed is a
marketing
point the official value can't be trusted. Half that
speed is probably reliable. For the rest, AFAIK, it's
a matter of your system being able to provide the data
in time. There's some buffering the drive, but that
can only handle so much delay.
I recall a study where they spun disks at speeds faster than 52x. The
result was that they disintegrated. It's probable that they set 52x as
the max due to the structural integrity of the disks, not due to other
limitations while writing.
Google is not being friendly so I can't find it, but it was on slashdot
ages ago.
-Scott
1:51 a.m.
On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 04:03:03AM +0200, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 06:27:17PM -0700, Ken Restivo
wrote:
I didn't phrase my question properly.
I don't mean issues of buffering or keeping up with data; at maximum speed the buffer
is 100% full the whole time.
What I meant was the sounds-like-voodoo stuff that the guy on that mailing list link was
talking about: the drive being MODE2 and not having error correction and thus there being
analog writing errors introduced by the laser when spinning the disc at maximum speed, and
the pits being more reliable and having fewer errors when written at slower speed.
-ken
But that raises the other question: does it even
make sense to burn an audio CD at < maximum anyway? Are there errors introduced by
burning RedBook CD's at higher speeds?
You'll have to try it. Since write speed is a marketing
point the official value can't be trusted. Half that
speed is probably reliable. For the rest, AFAIK, it's
a matter of your system being able to provide the data
in time. There's some buffering the drive, but that
can only handle so much delay.
12:51 p.m.
On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 08:51:42PM -0700, Ken Restivo wrote:
On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 04:03:03AM +0200, Fons
Adriaensen wrote:
Mode 1/2 is YellowBook, CD-ROM. Aren't you making an *Audio* CD ?
Anyway, if the pits are less reliable when written at high speed,
that really means that the drive doesn's support that speed except
in marketing terms.
Ciao,
--
FA
O tu, che porte, correndo si ?
E guerra e morte !
On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 06:27:17PM -0700, Ken
Restivo wrote:
I didn't phrase my question properly.
I don't mean issues of buffering or keeping up with data; at maximum speed the buffer
is 100% full the whole time.
What I meant was the sounds-like-voodoo stuff that the guy on that mailing list link was
talking about: the drive being MODE2 and not having error correction and thus there being
analog writing errors introduced by the laser when spinning the disc at maximum speed, and
the pits being more reliable and having fewer errors when written at slower speed. But that raises the other question: does it even
make sense to burn an audio CD at < maximum anyway? Are there errors introduced by
burning RedBook CD's at higher speeds?
You'll have to try it. Since write speed is a marketing
point the official value can't be trusted. Half that
speed is probably reliable. For the rest, AFAIK, it's
a matter of your system being able to provide the data
in time. There's some buffering the drive, but that
can only handle so much delay.
23 Apr
23 Apr
10:59 p.m.
Have you tried running wodim(1) with the args:
-tao Write disk in TAO mode.
-dao Write disk in SAO mode.
-sao Write disk in SAO mode.
I've found that wodim seems to "do the right thing" -- also turning on
verbose mode lets you know what it's "thinking" -- including what speed it
thinks it can write at.
Niels
http://nielsmayer.com
11:08 p.m.
On 04/24/2010 02:59 AM, Niels Mayer wrote:
Have you tried running wodim(1) with the args:
you shouldn't talk about computers as if they were people - they really
hate that.
/me runs...
-tao Write disk in TAO mode.
-dao Write disk in SAO mode.
-sao Write disk in SAO mode.
I've found that wodim seems to "do the right thing" -- also turning on
verbose mode lets you know what it's "thinking" -- including what speed it
thinks it can write at. 
11:27 p.m.
On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 03:07:59AM +0200, J??rn Nettingsmeier wrote:
On 04/24/2010 02:59 AM, Niels Mayer wrote:
Yeah, but what they really hate.. is BATHS. They're worse then cats that way.
-ken
Have you tried running wodim(1) with the args:
you shouldn't talk about computers as if they were people - they really
hate that.
-tao Write disk in TAO mode.
-dao Write disk in SAO mode.
-sao Write disk in SAO mode.
I've found that wodim seems to "do the right thing" -- also turning on
verbose mode lets you know what it's "thinking" -- including what speed it
thinks it can write at. 
24 Apr
24 Apr
1:33 p.m.
Excerpts from Ken Restivo's message of 2010-04-23 23:14:09 +0200:
So I'm trying to burn this masterpeice to a CD.
$ crdao write tofile.toc
... ok here we go. It works, but then when I try to read the disk back, i get tons of CRC
errors.
"5 Q sub-channels with CRC errors" .. etc etc.
Someone On The Internet (tm) said thusly:
http://linux.derkeiler.com/Mailing-Lists/Debian/2005-04/1370.html
OK, so I try to write at a lower speed.
$ cdrdao write --speed 4 tofile.toc
Starting write at speed 8...
Pausing 10 seconds - hit CTRL-C to abort.
No no no no, I said speed 4!
$ cdrdao write --speed 2 tofile.toc
Starting write at speed 8...
Pausing 10 seconds - hit CTRL-C to abort.
Arrgggh...
$ cdrdao write --speed 1 tofile.toc
Starting write at speed 8...
Pausing 10 seconds - hit CTRL-C to abort.
Hey, cdrdao, are you even listening to me!??
So, two questions:
1) Is there any reason to burn an audio CD at a speed < maximum, or is this the
dreaded digital voodoo?
2) Why is cdrdao refusing to do what I tell it to do?
Thanks, all.
-ken
I'm not sure it helps anything but you could try to install cdrtools
instead of cdrkit.
Regards,
Philipp
5250
days inactive
5251
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
14 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
Bob van der Poel -
Fons Adriaensen -
Jörn Nettingsmeier -
Ken Restivo -
Niels Mayer -
Paul Davis -
Philipp -
Roberto -
Scott